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Easily the worst final ever

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    lammtarralammtarra Posts: 4,341
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    dubest wrote: »
    In every business there are always 'gaps'. But not usually enough to warrant making a whole new brand for them. So she will sell the regular things as well as what she perceives are gaps and hope all the customers which I suppose are bakers will come flocking to her since she has everything. As the new boy (or girl) on the block she will have a sustained opposition, meaning they will all gang together to stop her supplies.

    Not necessarily. Luisa might be doing both ends of the supply chain a favour, and so be welcomed, provided she can make the necessary upfront investment.

    Luisa said the sector is bedevilled by delays caused by small suppliers receiving intermittent orders. If Luisa can provide regular, guaranteed orders, she will be helping existing suppliers. Luisa then carries the stock (at least initially -- later on, averaging out multiple orders will mean she can reduce her own stocks) so she can supply the existing customers without delays.

    Suppliers gain by guaranteed and regular orders, for which they may be prepared to drop their prices. Customers gain by immediate access to materials, for which they may be happy to pay more.

    The risk is that Luisa needs to make that initial, expensive investment in storage and logistics, because the value she adds depends on scale. The danger is not from existing bakers but from established distributors in related sectors who might see their chance to expand sideways into this new niche.

    Edit to add: as slouching notes, provided these distributors move into Luisa's niche by simply buying her out, rather than squeezing her out, everyone is happy and Luisa and Lord Sugar are quids in.
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    slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    lammtarra wrote: »
    Not necessarily. Luisa might be doing both ends of the supply chain a favour, and so be welcomed, provided she can make the necessary upfront investment.

    Luisa said the sector is bedevilled by delays caused by small suppliers receiving intermittent orders. If Luisa can provide regular, guaranteed orders, she will be helping existing suppliers. Luisa then carries the stock (at least initially -- later on, averaging out multiple orders will mean she can reduce her own stocks) so she can supply the existing customers without delays.

    Suppliers gain by guaranteed and regular orders, for which they may be prepared to drop their prices. Customers gain by immediate access to materials, for which they may be happy to pay more.

    The risk is that Luisa needs to make that initial, expensive investment in storage and logistics, because the value she adds depends on scale. The danger is not from existing bakers but from established distributors in related sectors who might see their chance to expand sideways into this new niche.

    Edit to add: as slouching notes, provided these distributors move into Luisa's niche by simply buying her out, rather than squeezing her out, everyone is happy and Luisa and Lord Sugar are quids in.
    You know, after all the silliness we have seen in this series, I genuinely feel there are two good business ideas here - to the show's (and the finalists') credit.
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    MonksealMonkseal Posts: 12,017
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    Whataday wrote: »
    I imagine that Ruth would've won if the prize had been a business partnership. However the job in question was for some sort of environmental scheme if I recall correctly, which was far more suited to Michelle.

    I would imagine Michelle would have walked it even more under the current format. She had her own consultancy IIRC, and had set up on her own. Ruth was a straight-up saleswoman, and it showed.
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    fireemblemcrazefireemblemcraze Posts: 7,436
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    Toggler wrote: »
    Both are fairly unlikeable characters and if asked to choose I would put Luisa as the worst.

    I get really frustrated by this - this is the Apprentice and not Big Brother. Who cares if they're unlikable? They're both amazingly brilliant candidates!

    Leah is like Stella almost - really organized, sensible and intelligent. And how is investing with her a huge risk? She's a doctor, she'll have a clue how facial ascetics works and what ethical implications it has (because ethics is always taught alongside the medical course, so we essentially have 6 years of it and is usually the biggest topic of discussion in med school). So basically, if she's as academic as everyone has been saying there's a good chance she'll be sensible about it if she cherishes her license.
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    Agent FAgent F Posts: 40,288
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    Good final two with the best business plans I felt, but I just can't see Sugar taking the risk with Leah's plan and that's what will end up swinging it for Luisa IMO.
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    Contains NutsContains Nuts Posts: 2,112
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    One who has no business acumen and business plan spells massive risk, while the other is business minded and has been successful in every business and business plan is simple and will get results.

    How on earth leah is even in the final is beyond me.

    Not only that but Lord Sugar wouldntve hired any of these anyway if Cloughs business plan had been good which says something about the level of these candidates.
    This.
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    djfunnymandjfunnyman Posts: 12,585
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    Neil was more conceited than all the other candidates combined and nobody seemed to have a problem with that :rolleyes:

    Yes, but that's because Neil didnt bully anyone. Luisa bullied Jason and Leah opposed Zee's leadership on the Dubai task, such as her refusal to go to the souk
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 191
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    Some on here are saying Jason was the only likeable character...Myles seemed an ok bloke, and Francesca was pleasant enough (with a great bottom!)... not snidey, back-stabbing etc
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    Contains NutsContains Nuts Posts: 2,112
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    Some on here are saying Jason was the only likeable character...Myles seemed an ok bloke, and Francesca was pleasant enough (with a great bottom!)... not snidey, back-stabbing etc
    Francesca, Jason, Natalie and Tim most likeable from my point of view.

    Everyone else OKish apart from Jordan and Leah and to an extent Luisa and Alex.
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    thenetworkbabethenetworkbabe Posts: 45,624
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    I get really frustrated by this - this is the Apprentice and not Big Brother. Who cares if they're unlikable? They're both amazingly brilliant candidates!

    Leah is like Stella almost - really organized, sensible and intelligent. And how is investing with her a huge risk? She's a doctor, she'll have a clue how facial ascetics works and what ethical implications it has (because ethics is always taught alongside the medical course, so we essentially have 6 years of it and is usually the biggest topic of discussion in med school). So basically, if she's as academic as everyone has been saying there's a good chance she'll be sensible about it if she cherishes her license.

    Leah seems credible in every way. Smart, decisive and reliably right. If she makes consultant, she may even remember who her patients are. The legal reputational problem though is that things go wrong ,and subordinates make mistakes, and customers make uninformed, or unwise decisions. She can't say she will never make a mistake in who they treat, or how they treat them. And any mistake may become the headline Sugar ruined my face, or my depressed, or looks obsessed daugher spent the food money on wrinkle removal.

    His bigger, other, problem is political/social/moral. He's a Labour- created Peer and strong supporter of the NHS. Cosmetic surgery raises all sorts of questions. Does he want to be seen encouraging more people to feel a need for it, is vanity an adequate reason for it to be offered, do the people who opt for it do so for psychological reasons that most would dismiss? Does he want to be seen to be making money from people who are obsessed by a wrinkle.

    Then there's what message does it send out to the country if the best business he can find - from 10000 candidates - is wrinkle removal? Does that suggest a hopeful future for the counttry?

    There's also the unresolved question of whether this is like normal private practice and will sit alongside a NHS medical career. If Lord Sugar is asking Luisa whether she can be his partner alongside running 3 companies, he has to ask if Leah will be giving this her full attention too. If the answer is no the strongest argument aginst Luisa falls. If its yes, he's effectively taken a real high flyer, who has trained to save lives, and redeployed her to deal with blemishes and wrinkles.It shows up the point that young doctors have been forced to acquire stupid levels of debt and get inadequate wages for their ability, and many are making money in similar ways, but does he want to deprive the NHS of a very good doctor?
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    troynuncdicittroynuncdicit Posts: 372
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    AOTB wrote: »
    I agree- this is an observation I have shared! As I've said in other posts it isn't a level playing field on these forums. For some reason women tend to get a harder time.

    Exactly, it's entirely hypocritical to criticize Leah and Luisa for "loving themselves" when Neil's been the most conceited, pompous candidate since Week 1. But per usual a half-decent looking guy can get away with murder while a half-decent looking girl can't even breath without being criticized.
    djfunnyman wrote: »
    Yes, but that's because Neil didnt bully anyone. Luisa bullied Jason and Leah opposed Zee's leadership on the Dubai task, such as her refusal to go to the souk

    Luisa didn't bully Jason and Leah rightfully opposed Zee's leadership. He was a shit PM and blatantly chauvinist, the only thing Leah did wrong was not go with her gut and eventually give in.
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    SquatchSquatch Posts: 781
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    Two unlikeable people, could play a game of whos more in love with themselves and never get a winner. One candidate who is weak while the other is a strong candidate, quite obvious which is which. One who has no business acumen and business plan spells massive risk, while the other is business minded and has been successful in every business and business plan is simple and will get results.

    I will eat my hat if Luisa does not win. The most one sided final making it boring. How on earth leah is even in the final is beyond me.

    Not only that but Lord Sugar wouldntve hired any of these anyway if Cloughs business plan had been good which says something about the level of these candidates.

    Not going to check up on it, but doesn't Luisa have (a) a rich husband and (b) the pair of them have about 8 failed businesses behind them?
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    Department_SDepartment_S Posts: 4,924
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    It's a babe-off. I suspect not as unpopular in the male half of the viewing public.
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    Steve9214Steve9214 Posts: 8,406
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    Steve9214 wrote: »
    There is only a gap in the market - if you do not know the market in depth.
    Luisa's main reasoning for this was the "low stock" levels of website based companies dealing with retail businesses.
    This is rubbish - written by someone who is too small to have dealt with the main bakery wholesale suppliers. There is no supply or stock issues at all in the UK bakery ingredients supply sector - if anything there is over-capacity so there are going to be takeovers and mergers in the future.

    If you have a retail bakery business you deal with one of 2 or 3 companies who deliver weekly and have depots all over the country. BAKO, BFP or Klumans.

    Anyone too small to deal with one of these suppliers is too small to bother with anyway.
    Sugar decorations and accessories come from only 2 or 3 suppliers, Culpitts, Fiddes Payne and (Gem cutters from South Africa).

    Glitter and shimmers are very dodgy as most contain artificial colours which although is fine for very small startup type businesses - is not acceptable to any major retailer.
    Natural colours and flavours only are allowed by the supermarkets.
    Getting good natural glitter and shimmers for cake decoration is a nightmare as most natural colours fade or colours run.

    The home baking (mixes and accessories) market is dominated by Dr Oetker - who took over the UK Supercook brands.
    Dr Oetker are a German multinational, the biggest in Europe in home baking, with deep pockets.

    This would be like someone starting up car company to compete with BMW

    http://www.fiddespayne.co.uk/
    http://www.oetker.co.uk/oetker_uk/html/default/home
    http://www.culpitt.com/

    Luisa is not in the "Bakery business" she is in the home baking business - and her cupcake business is like any other "fashion" business cashing in on a trend.
    She should be commended for spotting a trend, but most fashion business is "get-in, cash-in, get out".

    I posted this in another thread - but it would be better here.

    Luisa'a business is NOT stable or steady.

    Bakery is in huge decline.

    Cupcakes are a fashion item - overpriced - extremely high in fat - garish colours (most of which are artificial as the colours come in from USA and Asia)

    The wholesalers have got the market sewn up - there is overcapacity if anything.
    Home baking is similarly sewn up by huge conglomerates, who will step on Luisa like she doesn't even exist.

    Very small operators - like she is now - are allowed to trade, but as soon as they get too big the competition eliminates them.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 147
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    Steve9214 wrote: »
    I posted this in another thread - but it would be better here.

    Luisa'a business is NOT stable or steady.
    Very small operators - like she is now - are allowed to trade, but as soon as they get too big the competition eliminates them.

    Thanks for posting it here. I have to fully agree with you. No one here seems to fully understand what her new brand is going to do. I have compared it to the Emperor's new clothes. We shall see more in the final but I doubt anyone will be much wiser.

    Telling the competition in advance is the most silliest thing to do,

    She has pulled the wool over LS and Karren. They seem to see in her something of themselves and therefore can do no wrong.

    I think its really Karren to blame for this. Also she seems to have wanted an all female final and forced LS into it.

    They should be asking someone like you who knows the state of the market and not relying on what Louisa tells them.

    I, all the time, against everyone else have said Francesca is the winner with her simple and do-able plan and has been cheated out of it.

    I should also say that although the 'big' boys sometimes allow small fry to enter part of a market in a small way usually where they dont consider it profitable, there is no way they will allow Louisa to do it knowing she has the backing to take over the whole of it.

    I have to repeat she is getting to big for herself. She ought to have asked for a string of cup cake shops and a flag ship one in the West End to fleece the tourists.
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    jtnorthjtnorth Posts: 5,081
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    Steve9214 wrote: »
    I posted this in another thread - but it would be better here.

    Luisa'a business is NOT stable or steady.

    Bakery is in huge decline.

    Cupcakes are a fashion item - overpriced - extremely high in fat - garish colours (most of which are artificial as the colours come in from USA and Asia)

    The wholesalers have got the market sewn up - there is overcapacity if anything.
    Home baking is similarly sewn up by huge conglomerates, who will step on Luisa like she doesn't even exist.

    Very small operators - like she is now - are allowed to trade, but as soon as they get too big the competition eliminates them.

    Thanks for this - very interesting. I don't really understand what Luisa's idea is and I'd be grateful if you or anyone could explain it to me? Is she supplying to professional bakers everything they need as a wholesaler? Or is she aiming to sell to home bakers, so say I want to make some cakes for a child's party, I might use her paper cases and sprinkles etc instead of Dr Oetker? I've got all confused about it.
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    PrincessTTPrincessTT Posts: 4,300
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    dubest wrote: »
    I think its really Karren to blame for this. Also she seems to have wanted an all female final and forced LS into it.

    Karren quite clearly wanted Neil to win... The all-female final was forced onto LS by the fact that Jordan doesn't own the business he was offering and Neil had an awful business plan.
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    apaulapaul Posts: 9,846
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    I don't like anything about Luisa and Leah, as one of the interviewers rightly said, is cold. It's a shame there has to be a winner.
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    Purple.Purple. Posts: 4,593
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    I think they are both awful. Leah has a better business plan, but it is a risk. However, Luisa would be awful to work with and isn't particularly professional.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 338
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    I Agree with OP that the finalists are poor this year.

    Blonde woman has done nothing notable at all. I mean I cannot remember one episode where i thought wow. All she has done, is roll her eyes and some how she is just there. Honestly name me one moment she has been great.

    Luisa I think has wormed her way to the final if I'm being honest

    Take the last few weeks. She refused to go in the kitchen when she had kitchen skills; an extremely poor decision. And 2) she designed a dating website with absolutely nothing on it; again extremely poor.

    And the clothes shop performance to me was pretty average. It's almost as if they were on a school trip just buying some clothes they like and selling them for a bit more ; again I saw absolutely nothing outstanding here at all

    As for her business being the new amazon - amazon turned over a billion to make a profit of 1 million. So In the baking industry the margins just wont be there!.

    That's honestly how I feel. Both of them are nothing special in my opinion.

    Finally... All I can remember of Ruth the badger was she talked the usual talk 'I will work hard, I will do you a job, I will be fanraric' - when the reality is it was all just hot air.
    I don't remember her doing anything outstanding either.

    Tom pellereu was my favourite - he got his product into the worlds biggest retailer single handedly - now THAT is out standing
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    george.millmangeorge.millman Posts: 8,628
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    I Agree with OP that the finalists are poor this year.

    Blonde woman has done nothing notable at all. I mean I cannot remember one episode where i thought wow. All she has done, is roll her eyes and some how she is just there. Honestly name me one moment she has been great.

    Luisa I think has wormed her way to the final if I'm being honest

    Take the last few weeks. She refused to go in the kitchen when she had kitchen skills; an extremely poor decision. And 2) she designed a dating website with absolutely nothing on it; again extremely poor.

    And the clothes shop performance to me was pretty average. It's almost as if they were on a school trip just buying some clothes they like and selling them for a bit more ; again I saw absolutely nothing outstanding here at all

    As for her business being the new amazon - amazon turned over a billion to make a profit of 1 million. So In the baking industry the margins just wont be there!.

    That's honestly how I feel. Both of them are nothing special in my opinion.

    Finally... All I can remember of Ruth the badger was she talked the usual talk 'I will work hard, I will do you a job, I will be fanraric' - when the reality is it was all just hot air.
    I don't remember her doing anything outstanding either.

    Tom pellereu was my favourite - he got his product into the worlds biggest retailer single handedly - now THAT is out standing

    Is this a problem with the finalists, or this series in general? Because in my opinion, there are only two other people - Neil and Rebecca - who could legitimately have got to the final two. I don't think anyone else from this series was strong enough to get to this stage.
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    Steve9214Steve9214 Posts: 8,406
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    dubest wrote: »
    Thanks for posting it here. I have to fully agree with you. No one here seems to fully understand what her new brand is going to do. I have compared it to the Emperor's new clothes. We shall see more in the final but I doubt anyone will be much wiser.

    I have to repeat she is getting to big for herself. She ought to have asked for a string of cup cake shops and a flag ship one in the West End to fleece the tourists.
    I don't really understand what Luisa's idea is and I'd be grateful if you or anyone could explain it to me? Is she supplying to professional bakers everything they need as a wholesaler? Or is she aiming to sell to home bakers, so say I want to make some cakes for a child's party, I might use her paper cases and sprinkles etc instead of Dr Oetker? I've got all confused about it.

    I have no idea either but the West end cupcake shop idea would be a much better bet.

    I assume she has had trouble stocking her one shop operation so thinks she has spotted a gap in the market.
    However, niche bakery wholesalers cannot supply very tiny operations, that do not use minimal quantities of ingredients. Most have a minimum order of £100, and carry quite a large stock of regular items.
    However , extremely specialist (fasionable) decorations used by "upmarket" cupcake outfits are unlikely to be stocked by a general bakery wholesaler as there would not be enough demand.

    However I have found perfectly acceptable (IMHO) decorations for cupcakes freely available from the largest bakery and confectioners wholesalers

    http://www.callbakolondon.com/search/?keywords=glitter&gobut.x=0&gobut.y=0

    http://www.klumanandbalter.com/products-decor.html

    http://www.keylink.org/productlistings.php?altCats=183&catCode=863

    Unless LS is investing in warehousing and distribution, how is she going to be a "wholesaler". Wholesaling falls under "distribution" and is always big scale.
    £250K is not going buy anything like the size of operation needed.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 338
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    Is this a problem with the finalists, or this series in general? Because in my opinion, there are only two other people - Neil and Rebecca - who could legitimately have got to the final two. I don't think anyone else from this series was strong enough to get to this stage.

    Absolutely. I posted on another thread that I actually think think the BBC would be embarrassed about the interview stage.

    You've got a guy who doesn't even have a share of a company!
    And a woman that literally plucked 5 million out of thin air.

    How does some one get on the apprentice, a national tv series, when they've completely lied about their companies turn over and made it all up!

    If anything I think a lot of them are not entrepreneurs at all. I think they're more people that are chancing it. I think most entrepreneurs are exactly that ; people that came make a successful business on their own.

    I didn't watch last year, but I know tom pellereu from the year before has since brought put about 10 different products. And his one nail file sold out in 2 days.

    Now he is a real inventor and entrepreneur.
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    fireemblemcrazefireemblemcraze Posts: 7,436
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    I Agree with OP that the finalists are poor this year.

    Blonde woman has done nothing notable at all. I mean I cannot remember one episode where i thought wow. All she has done, is roll her eyes and some how she is just there. Honestly name me one moment she has been great.

    Luisa I think has wormed her way to the final if I'm being honest

    Take the last few weeks. She refused to go in the kitchen when she had kitchen skills; an extremely poor decision. And 2) she designed a dating website with absolutely nothing on it; again extremely poor.

    And the clothes shop performance to me was pretty average. It's almost as if they were on a school trip just buying some clothes they like and selling them for a bit more ; again I saw absolutely nothing outstanding here at all

    As for her business being the new amazon - amazon turned over a billion to make a profit of 1 million. So In the baking industry the margins just wont be there!.

    That's honestly how I feel. Both of them are nothing special in my opinion.

    Finally... All I can remember of Ruth the badger was she talked the usual talk 'I will work hard, I will do you a job, I will be fanraric' - when the reality is it was all just hot air.
    I don't remember her doing anything outstanding either.

    Tom pellereu was my favourite - he got his product into the worlds biggest retailer single handedly - now THAT is out standing

    Well considering the stuff you have said about Ruth - I consider what you are saying as blatantly ignoring facts. Ruth was the strongest saleswomen in that whole series. Every task she was breaking the previous task's sales figures - her sales were dominating over the other candidates's sales.

    As for what you've said about Luisa, she pushed for a bike of which she sold more than the whole of the sales of the other team combined! She took all criticism on board for her final PMing and showed what a team player she was, even Fran admitted she had improved and led her team to a great victory! Luisa's branding of Oh My Pow was really creative and innovative showing she's really good too.

    And the dating website? Seriously? You're talking about something which Jason was too indecisive in completing - no fault of Luisa if her PM can't make a bloody decision! That was no fault of Luisa's! Kitchen skills? What on earth are you talking about dear? That she knows that she has to taste the food before selling it? (sorry but that was by far the stupidest thing any person on any show has done - Francesca did it).
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    Cestrian18Cestrian18 Posts: 6,861
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    Personally, ignoring the people for a second, these are two of the most well rounded business plans since the format changed, Tom won, but had a half baked idea and it was the back up who saved him and generally the business plans needed a lot of work, Leah seriously impressed me at the interviews, she knows her market, has the figures down and would make a lot of money (you remember come next week she'll have launched the clinics to 8 million people and same for Luisa) Luisa, again has her head screwed on, knows her market and is a little 'safer' but I think its an incredibly close run thing and I'm so glad they've gone back to a proper final this year so I will be glued :)
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