I think ITV's commentary decline will quite rightly be the big talking point this summer. It's amazing to think ITV had two of the best co-commentators around for me in Beglin and Burley as their only co-commentators on their live knockout matches last time. They also had an excellent commentator in Champion and a decent enough one in Drury. Yet somehow they've contrived to lose all four of them and haven't adequately replaced them at all. I think serious question marks have to be asked of the likes of Niall Sloane for this. They've basically just moved everyone up one so Matterface and Speight have gone from numbers 4/5 to 2/3. Logically at some point you can't just keep promoting people. It's a bit like when Martin Tyler goes in my view. Rob Hawthorne is acceptable as a number 2 perhaps but not as a number 1 for me. The problem is I can't see this improving for ITV any time soon considering their lack of football over the next few years.
Surely the loss of CL and FA Cup rights is part of the explanation.
Going forward, ITV knows that it really only needs one decent commentator and that is Tyldesley.
There is no need for a high quality number 2 or 3 who is only going to be used on big live games at WC and EC finals every two years.
Of course, it could be argued that WC and EC finals are huge events so "demand" a high quality number 2 and 3.
But the point is it's not worth employing high quality people for such a small amount of work.
Another aspect of this is the extent to which ITV can get Tyldesley onto the vast majority of their best games.
I'm not sure of the geography but I would expect ITV to make every effort such that Tyldesley does say 8 or 9 of ITV's biggest 10 games of the tournament.
Assuming ITV doesn't do back to back QFs then he could easily do all ITV's live games from the QFs onwards. He'll do both England group games so that makes the 6 biggest games of the tournament straight away. Then if he can do 2 or 3 of say the next biggest 4 group games he'll have done 8 or 9 of the biggest 10 games.
Surely the loss of CL and FA Cup rights is part of the explanation.
Going forward, ITV knows that it really only needs one decent commentator and that is Tyldesley.
There is no need for a high quality number 2 or 3 who is only going to be used on big live games at WC and EC finals every two years.
Of course, it could be argued that WC and EC finals are huge events so "demand" a high quality number 2 and 3.
But the point is it's not worth employing high quality people for such a small amount of work.
Of course that hasn't helped and why I say they're going to struggle to address the issue in the coming years. ESPN losing Premier League rights probably didn't help either, as they loaned Champion and Burley from them.
The big one for me is Jim Beglin. He was their number 1 at the last World Cup and one of the best around so it was obviously ITV's call to replace him with Townsend. In my view that was a really poor decision.
I also think if ITV had treated Jon Champion better down the years then maybe there'd have been more chance of him still being there. He should have been their number 2 behind Drury from as far back as 2006 for me.
But then you also have to look at someone like Roberto Martinez. He was part of ITV's team at the Euros yet it looks like they've lost out on him for this summer. Why? It might be he'd already agreed a contract with ESPN but last summer I was told ITV would be interested in Martinez depending on his Everton commitments. So it sounds to me as if they didn't move fast enough.
I have to say I thought Kevin Keatings commentary was of the highest quality tonight, not sure if t was off tube but if it was I think it was one of the best of the season.
Each goal was called with precise name calling and as accurate as it could of been.
Throughout the game he virtually called every incident spot on and generated as much excitement as you possibly could if indeed it was off tube.
Great commentary, maybe by far one of the most under rated commentators out there.
Going forward I think ITV will keep Matt Smith, but the year after next not employ anyone specifically for football.
I think they may sign some people on a contract, for example Clive T for all Eng games and No1 at a World Cup, but the rest of their coverage will be a la Rugby Union World Cup
ITV will still have a lot of highlights though in Europe so they've got something.
Thought Keatings was excellent tonight, though think him and Gibson called Bale disallowed goal wrong. But I think Keatings should be La Liga number 1 definitely. Indeed I enjoyed his commentary more than I have Parry/Hawthorne for much of the season. Gibson also better than I was expecting.
Keatings was superb tonight. The commentary was offtube. Games like on Sky tonight highlight how BT's European off-tube commentaries sound mix wise are awful, the crowd is so quiet on their games compared to Sky.
Surely the loss of CL and FA Cup rights is part of the explanation.
Going forward, ITV knows that it really only needs one decent commentator and that is Tyldesley.
There is no need for a high quality number 2 or 3 who is only going to be used on big live games at WC and EC finals every two years.
Of course, it could be argued that WC and EC finals are huge events so "demand" a high quality number 2 and 3.
But the point is it's not worth employing high quality people for such a small amount of work.
It's not so much that ITV thinks it doesn't need a high quality number 2 or 3 (and that's not a suggestion that they don't have them - I think Joe Speight especially is being unfairly criticised by some people on here; He's massively improved since his Setanta debut 6 years ago and is now one of the top ten commentators in the country, as demonstrated by him being used regularly by all the major TV football broadcasters) but that when you don't have a lot of games to offer people it is harder to get them to commit. ITV not having the FA Cup next season immediately means that there are eight fewer games that could be offered to Jon Champion - that's significantly reducing his workload.
Another aspect of this is the extent to which ITV can get Tyldesley onto the vast majority of their best games.
I'm not sure of the geography but I would expect ITV to make every effort such that Tyldesley does say 8 or 9 of ITV's biggest 10 games of the tournament.
The geography and logistics is very interesting.
For example the BBC has no games in Sao Paulo, and only one each in Porto Allegre and Curitiba (which are on consecutive days) so it doesn't need to have anyone in the southern part of the country for most of the first fortnight.
Conversely, ITV only has to venture to Manaus, the most remote venue, once compared to the BBC's three, and ITV's games in Recife are both on days next to its games in Natal - those two venues being the only two that are remotely close together.
But then you also have to look at someone like Roberto Martinez. He was part of ITV's team at the Euros yet it looks like they've lost out on him for this summer. Why? It might be he'd already agreed a contract with ESPN but last summer I was told ITV would be interested in Martinez depending on his Everton commitments. So it sounds to me as if they didn't move fast enough.
As far as I'm aware, Martinez' World Cup deal with ESPN dates back to the last World Cup, if not before. Only recently has it become clear that it's exclusive, although I'm sure it always was.
ITV's team of studio guests and co-commentators will be very strong though. Even without Roberto they'll have around 500 international caps between them.
Not convinced that international caps particularly correlate to the strength or otherwise of punditry but I always like a challenge so let's have a go at reaching 500...
Andy Townsend - 70 caps
Lee Dixon - 22 caps
Roy Keane - 65 caps
Glenn Hoddle - 53 caps
Ian Wright - 33 caps
Patrick Viera - 107 caps
Gordon Strachan - 50 caps
I think those are the ones we can pretty much definitely say will be part of ITV's team (or at least very probably.) That adds up to exactly 400 so another 100 or so to find. Amongst possible candidates are:
Gianfranco Zola? - 35 caps
Gus Poyet? - 26 caps
Martin O'Neill? - 64 caps (here's hoping!)
Ray Houghton? - 73 caps (I think it was concluded it would be unlikely but will put him in)
Gareth Southgate? - 57 caps (I suspect unlikely but worth putting in - though with Wright, Hoddle and Dixon on board I'm not sure there will be another prominent English studio pundit)
I'm sort of guessing the 3rd co-commentator will have a decent proportion from what Arius says.
ITV's team of studio guests and co-commentators will be very strong though. Even without Roberto they'll have around 500 international caps between them.
As long as they can string 500 insightful words between them that's all that matters. As we all know good player does not mean good pundit. Calling messrs Shearer and Vieira to the stand.
I am actually looking forward though to the ITV studio as Keane, Dixon, Hoddle and Strachan is a solid core and Chiles shines at these tournaments, getting longer intros to make his mark. The Spain Italy match during Euro 2012 from the Warsaw cafe was a particular highlight.
Live Copa Del Rey Final: FC Barcelona v Real Madrid
Scott Minto presented alongside Giovannia van Bronckhorst and Gerry Armstrong
Commentators: Kevin Keatings and Terry Gibson
Guillem Balague was working as a reporter at Mestalla Stadium last night (I heard him being interviewed on talkSPORT while in the mixed zone some time after the game), but I don't know if he was involved in Sky Sports 1's live coverage as I didn't catch that much of their half hour of build-up or their analysis after the trophy presentation.
To echo what others have said, it was a fantastic commentary from both Kevin and Terry last night. Both seem to be very underrated in their respective roles.
I'm going to stick my neck out and break from the orthodoxy on this thread - I genuinely think that ITV's commentary line-up looks pretty decent going into the World Cup (albeit a little on the thin side as things stand at the moment) and I do not go along with all of the negativity that has been spoken about this area of their coverage.
Personally I have very little problem with their commentary staff. For me, Clive Tyldesley is the outstanding commentator on terrestrial television at the moment, certainly as far as those people used on live games go. I've rated Sam Matterface and Clarke Carlisle both individually on television and as a commentary pairing since they first began working together at the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations. I also think Joe Speight is one of the most promising, knowledgeable freelancers about at the moment and feel he is a perfect candidate for the kind of lower profile group matches I expect to hear him on (more on that later). The only real weak link is Andy Townsend, but even then I think the criticism he receives as a co-commentator is a little overblown. He's not the best but I find him preferable to many of his recent terrestrial counterparts, namely Mark Lawrenson, Mark Bright and Craig Burley (again - sorry to break with the orthodoxy but I really don't get the hype about Burley, he's such a negative listen).
Yes, Peter Drury, Jim Beglin and Jon Champion are big losses, but I don't think they have been replaced at all badly. For all of Matterface and Speight's relative inexperience at this level, everyone has to start somewhere and it's not as if they are total rookies. Both have more live television experience than Steve Wilson and Simon Brotherton had when they went to the World Cup in Korea and Japan with BBC TV 12 years ago - were those of you bemoaning ITV's commentators for this reason similarly criticising the BBC back then?
To pick up on a couple of good points Ariusuk makes...
I think Joe Speight especially is being unfairly criticised by some people on here; He's massively improved since his Setanta debut 6 years ago and is now one of the top ten commentators in the country, as demonstrated by him being used regularly by all the major TV football broadcasters.
I wholeheartedly agree with you when it comes to Joe Speight. I'm a weekly viewer of ITV4's Bundesliga highlights and I think he really stands out on that programme, he's clearly knowledgeable about the league and imparts key bits of player/league news relevant to how teams are faring clearly and concisely, as well as doing all the standard stuff like "goal calling" and pronouncing names well. I've also rated what I've heard of his work commentating on the Eredivisie for the old ESPN and now for the league's world feed and feel he has bags of potential going forward.
I also think he's an outstanding candidate for the role he's going to be in - a number three commentator, which will primarily involve him commentating on the less attractive group games involving nations whose players won't be the most familiar of names to a casual audience. Viewers will be the sort of people who watch ITV4's Bundesliga highlights show and those listening intently will likely want to know a bit about players that aren't massively famous outside of hardcore fans, which is something that Joe is very adept at doing.
Contrast Speight as ITV's number three commentator at the World Cup with his BBC counterpart Steve Wilson - a commentator beloved on this thread for reasons I cannot fathom, as he's one of the few commentators who has me reaching for the mute button and syncing up a radio alternative. Over the last five years or so, Speight has done his fair share of commentary on matches from the five of the six major European leagues plus plenty of games in the Europa League. He will have commentated on plenty of players who are going to the World Cup, including many players who'll be less familiar to a British audience. Contrast him with Wilson, who only very rarely commentates on non-Premier League matches outside of major international tournament time. From what little I've heard of him during past World Cups and European Championships, Wilson strikes me as not having the greatest depth of knowledge when it comes to teams outside of the big nations. With that in mind, which of the two on paper would appear to be the better qualified to provide an informative commentary on matches such as Switzerland v France and Belgium v Russia?
It's not so much that ITV thinks it doesn't need a high quality number 2 or 3...but that when you don't have a lot of games to offer people it is harder to get them to commit. ITV not having the FA Cup next season immediately means that there are eight fewer games that could be offered to Jon Champion - that's significantly reducing his workload.
I think this is a good point to make, particularly as it pertains to Jon Champion. Quite a few people on here were shocked and/or dismissive when it was announced that Champion had taken the job as successor to Jim Proudfoot as Absolute Radio's Saturday 3pm Premier League commentator, perhaps because radio is deemed as an inferior medium to television and also given that he'd be working for non-BBC, commercial radio at that.
But personally I can see why that particularly job would be appealing to any freelance football commentator, even one of as high a standing as Champion. Absolute Radio are in a position to offer their commentator a guaranteed 32 commentaries on top flight English league games per season for at least the next two seasons. ITV can't offer him anywhere near that number of live or highlights games. Nor are Setanta Ireland able to, where Jon is/was in a rotation of Saturday PL commentators for a single weekly match. I don't believe that even the Premier League's television world feed were able to guarantee him that number of live Saturday games (matches over the course of a weekend is a different matter and I'm sure he'll continue to do Sunday and midweek games for them).
Of course, Absolute may pay less for an individual appearance than the bigger television broadcasters do - I don't know that for certain, but it has been speculated that this is the case - but over the course of the season, Absolute can give Jon 32 guaranteed paydays as opposed to maybe only a dozen to 20ish between Setanta Ireland and Premier League Productions on Saturdays. So committing to the Absolute gig is probably a sound move financially on Champion's part.
As long as they can string 500 insightful words between them that's all that matters. As we all know good player does not mean good pundit. Calling messrs Shearer and Vieira to the stand.
And contrast those two with Davie Provan who "only" got 10 caps for Scotland and never played in one of the top leagues. Yet he's one of Sky's best co-commentators.
I'm going to stick my neck out and break from the orthodoxy on this thread - I genuinely think that ITV's commentary line-up looks pretty decent going into the World Cup (albeit a little on the thin side as things stand at the moment) and I do not go along with all of the negativity that has been spoken about this area of their coverage.
Personally I have very little problem with their commentary staff. For me, Clive Tyldesley is the outstanding commentator on terrestrial television at the moment, certainly as far as those people used on live games go. I've rated Sam Matterface and Clarke Carlisle both individually on television and as a commentary pairing since they first began working together at the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations. I also think Joe Speight is one of the most promising, knowledgeable freelancers about at the moment and feel he is a perfect candidate for the kind of lower profile group matches I expect to hear him on (more on that later). The only real weak link is Andy Townsend, but even then I think the criticism he receives as a co-commentator is a little overblown. He's not the best but I find him preferable to many of his recent terrestrial counterparts, namely Mark Lawrenson, Mark Bright and Craig Burley (again - sorry to break with the orthodoxy but I really don't get the hype about Burley, he's such a negative listen).
Yes, Peter Drury, Jim Beglin and Jon Champion are big losses, but I don't think they have been replaced at all badly. For all of Matterface and Speight's relative inexperience at this level, everyone has to start somewhere and it's not as if they are total rookies. Both have more live television experience than Steve Wilson and Simon Brotherton had when they went to the World Cup in Korea and Japan with BBC TV 12 years ago - were those of you bemoaning ITV's commentators for this reason similarly criticising the BBC back then?
I wholeheartedly agree with you when it comes to Joe Speight. I'm a weekly viewer of ITV4's Bundesliga highlights and I think he really stands out on that programme, he's clearly knowledgeable about the league and imparts key bits of player/league news relevant to how teams are faring clearly and concisely, as well as doing all the standard stuff like "goal calling" and pronouncing names well. I've also rated what I've heard of his work commentating on the Eredivisie for the old ESPN and now for the league's world feed and feel he has bags of potential going forward.
I also think he's an outstanding candidate for the role he's going to be in - a number three commentator, which will primarily involve him commentating on the less attractive group games involving nations whose players won't be the most familiar of names to a casual audience. Viewers will be the sort of people who watch ITV4's Bundesliga highlights show and those listening intently will likely want to know a bit about players that aren't massively famous outside of hardcore fans, which is something that Joe is very adept at doing.
I agree and disagree. I do think ITV are being a bit over-criticised on here. I'm not a fan of Clive but understand why he's their #1 (even though if given the choice I'll probably prefer all the BBC's commentator). And as you say, Joe Speight is perfectly fine as a number 3 for me - he's brilliant on the Bundesliga highlights show (the best commentator on there and I have to admit watching it this week the commentary felt weaker without him this week) and would be commentating on minor games for ITV at the World Cup. Plus he's still a young commentator, has good knowledge and a good commentary voice I think so taking him would be a good bet for the future from ITV and he's fine for that role.
The one I don't get is Matterface - I fail to understand how he's suddenly #2 at ITV. I rarely here him but when I have on Talksport I have found him pretty awful to be honest and to be blunt I don't he has a brilliant commentary voice and he may have some commentary background but it does feel odd that someone who was presenting on SSN at the time of the last World Cup is now a #2 commentator for the World Cup.
And I think that lets ITV down - if the commentary line-up was instead Clive Tydlesley, John Champion and Joe Speight it'd look a lot stronger then Clive, Sam Matterface and Joe Speight. You could get away with one more inexperienced commentator but 2 (especially if you're only bringing 3 main ones most likely) is a lot more risky.
Also, the choice of co-commentators is shocking which again lets ITV down. Both Townsend or Carlisle seem dreadful in that role and are their main guys and so when you combine that with the commentary inexperience ITV's line-up can look a little weak. It's incredible to see how weak ITV's co-commentary line-up is too when they have had Pleat and Beglin working for them not too recently who are both fine enough.
I do think the choice of #2 commentator and the co-commentators in general does really let ITV down - because otherwise there is some decent stuff there. And their punditry line-up strikes me as OK more often than not.
The irony is too everyone here hated Drury at the last World Cup yet seems desperate to have him back now. I do think we all forget how cringeworthy his ITV commentaries used to get. That "Goal for All Africa" commentary is still awful to this day.
Contrast Speight as ITV's number three commentator at the World Cup with his BBC counterpart Steve Wilson - a commentator beloved on this thread for reasons I cannot fathom, as he's one of the few commentators who has me reaching for the mute button and syncing up a radio alternative. Over the last five years or so, Speight has done his fair share of commentary on matches from the five of the six major European leagues plus plenty of games in the Europa League. He will have commentated on plenty of players who are going to the World Cup, including many players who'll be less familiar to a British audience. Contrast him with Wilson, who only very rarely commentates on non-Premier League matches outside of major international tournament time. From what little I've heard of him during past World Cups and European Championships, Wilson strikes me as not having the greatest depth of knowledge when it comes to teams outside of the big nations. With that in mind, which of the two on paper would appear to be the better qualified to provide an informative commentary on matches such as Switzerland v France and Belgium v Russia?
I like both Wilson and Speight - both are very listenable commentators which is the main thing for me. As long as a commentary doesn't annoy me and sounds good then I like them and both do their job well. I do think what makes the ITV commentators line-up look worse than it is is that the BBC's 4 main likely commentators are all experienced and have been to major tournament numerous times and done big games before (MOTD helps).
I'd say on the BBC though the issue like ITV is that the co-commentary may also be very weak and I do think the BBC co-commentary weakness is ignored on here a bit. Lawro isn't great in the role and BBC have essentially just put a man with little co-commentary experience (that I know of) in Phil Neville on an England WC game to avoid putting Lawro on it.
For all the ITV criticism of taking Speight I'd argue the Phil Neville thing on BBC isn't much better - just throwing him in at the deep end on an England game which could be great or could be dreadful. And aside from Neville and Lawro I can't really think of any BBC co-commentators and any I can think of aren't exactly outstanding. I think Sky aside the co-commentary on TV really is poor.
And if the BBC punditry line-up contains the usual lot (Savage, Shearer, Owen, Hansen, Lawro etc.) then it probably won't be that great either - and it'll probably be the guest pundits outshining them as always. I hope we get to see lots of Leonardo and Thierry Henry at the World Cup (if both are going).
So to be honest I'm not exactly enthused by either the BBC or ITV rumoured line-ups - both have some huge weaknesses.
Womens Super League
Fourteen games are set to be broadcast live on BT Sport,
with 16 games live on BBC Radio 5 live sports extra.
thats what i have found out
Bit late, I'm afraid, given the first Sports Extra match was on last night (and I mentioned it weeks ago). BT Sport's coverage begins tonight, of course.
Both have more live television experience than Steve Wilson and Simon Brotherton had when they went to the World Cup in Korea and Japan with BBC TV 12 years ago - were those of you bemoaning ITV's commentators for this reason similarly criticising the BBC back then?
*PEDANT ALERT*PEDANT ALERT*PEDANT ALERT*PEDANT ALERT*PEDANT ALERT*
I'm afraid Simon Brotherton wasn't commentating for BBC Television during the 2002 World Cup, he only broadcast on the radio. *PEDANT ALERT*PEDANT ALERT*PEDANT ALERT*PEDANT ALERT*PEDANT ALERT*
You're right with your general point, though, and I would suggest it's not different to Peter Drury going with ITV in 1998 after far fewer TV commentaries (he'd only joined ITV in March, and before that had done one or two on the Beeb), and virtually no live games (he ended up doing half of a Champions League match live, but only because of a delay in the other one, it was totally unplanned). He'd done a lot of radio commentary but so has Sam Matterface.
For all the ITV criticism of taking Speight I'd argue the Phil Neville thing on BBC isn't much better - just throwing him in at the deep end on an England game which could be great or could be dreadful. And aside from Neville and Lawro I can't really think of any BBC co-commentators and any I can think of aren't exactly outstanding. I think Sky aside the co-commentary on TV really is poor.
I dunno if Phil Neville is that big a risk, you've got an experienced commentator alongside him to help him out. It's no different to ITV using Gareth Southgate on the England games in 2006, he'd only done the odd bit of punditry and one (highlights only) League Cup match for ITV before the first England game in that tournament. Graeme Le Saux was also brand new when he started doing England games for the Beeb after Euro 2004.
Comments
Surely the loss of CL and FA Cup rights is part of the explanation.
Going forward, ITV knows that it really only needs one decent commentator and that is Tyldesley.
There is no need for a high quality number 2 or 3 who is only going to be used on big live games at WC and EC finals every two years.
Of course, it could be argued that WC and EC finals are huge events so "demand" a high quality number 2 and 3.
But the point is it's not worth employing high quality people for such a small amount of work.
Wayne Boyce and Stewart Robson for British Eurosport (HD)
I'm not sure of the geography but I would expect ITV to make every effort such that Tyldesley does say 8 or 9 of ITV's biggest 10 games of the tournament.
Assuming ITV doesn't do back to back QFs then he could easily do all ITV's live games from the QFs onwards. He'll do both England group games so that makes the 6 biggest games of the tournament straight away. Then if he can do 2 or 3 of say the next biggest 4 group games he'll have done 8 or 9 of the biggest 10 games.
Of course that hasn't helped and why I say they're going to struggle to address the issue in the coming years. ESPN losing Premier League rights probably didn't help either, as they loaned Champion and Burley from them.
The big one for me is Jim Beglin. He was their number 1 at the last World Cup and one of the best around so it was obviously ITV's call to replace him with Townsend. In my view that was a really poor decision.
I also think if ITV had treated Jon Champion better down the years then maybe there'd have been more chance of him still being there. He should have been their number 2 behind Drury from as far back as 2006 for me.
But then you also have to look at someone like Roberto Martinez. He was part of ITV's team at the Euros yet it looks like they've lost out on him for this summer. Why? It might be he'd already agreed a contract with ESPN but last summer I was told ITV would be interested in Martinez depending on his Everton commitments. So it sounds to me as if they didn't move fast enough.
Comms: Paul Dempsey and Richard Hughes
That's a bit of a pleasant surprise.
Fourteen games are set to be broadcast live on BT Sport,
with 16 games live on BBC Radio 5 live sports extra.
thats what i have found out
Sky Sports 1 HD - Kevin Keatings & Terry Gibson
How do you get this info, Homesdale?
Sometimes Bein Sports publishes it or NBC Sports' press release gives out the comms.
If so it will probably be an improvement from ITV's other three comms.
I have to say I thought Kevin Keatings commentary was of the highest quality tonight, not sure if t was off tube but if it was I think it was one of the best of the season.
Each goal was called with precise name calling and as accurate as it could of been.
Throughout the game he virtually called every incident spot on and generated as much excitement as you possibly could if indeed it was off tube.
Great commentary, maybe by far one of the most under rated commentators out there.
I think they may sign some people on a contract, for example Clive T for all Eng games and No1 at a World Cup, but the rest of their coverage will be a la Rugby Union World Cup
Thought Keatings was excellent tonight, though think him and Gibson called Bale disallowed goal wrong. But I think Keatings should be La Liga number 1 definitely. Indeed I enjoyed his commentary more than I have Parry/Hawthorne for much of the season. Gibson also better than I was expecting.
SS how was Ian Darke?
The Football League Show comms are often off tube as are many of Sky's games abroad. A good commentary is a good commentary.
There are blatant weaknesses in both the Beeb and ITV's comms/pundits/presenters but then again they're never going to please everybody, are they?
It's not so much that ITV thinks it doesn't need a high quality number 2 or 3 (and that's not a suggestion that they don't have them - I think Joe Speight especially is being unfairly criticised by some people on here; He's massively improved since his Setanta debut 6 years ago and is now one of the top ten commentators in the country, as demonstrated by him being used regularly by all the major TV football broadcasters) but that when you don't have a lot of games to offer people it is harder to get them to commit. ITV not having the FA Cup next season immediately means that there are eight fewer games that could be offered to Jon Champion - that's significantly reducing his workload.
The geography and logistics is very interesting.
For example the BBC has no games in Sao Paulo, and only one each in Porto Allegre and Curitiba (which are on consecutive days) so it doesn't need to have anyone in the southern part of the country for most of the first fortnight.
Conversely, ITV only has to venture to Manaus, the most remote venue, once compared to the BBC's three, and ITV's games in Recife are both on days next to its games in Natal - those two venues being the only two that are remotely close together.
As far as I'm aware, Martinez' World Cup deal with ESPN dates back to the last World Cup, if not before. Only recently has it become clear that it's exclusive, although I'm sure it always was.
ITV's team of studio guests and co-commentators will be very strong though. Even without Roberto they'll have around 500 international caps between them.
Andy Townsend - 70 caps
Lee Dixon - 22 caps
Roy Keane - 65 caps
Glenn Hoddle - 53 caps
Ian Wright - 33 caps
Patrick Viera - 107 caps
Gordon Strachan - 50 caps
I think those are the ones we can pretty much definitely say will be part of ITV's team (or at least very probably.) That adds up to exactly 400 so another 100 or so to find. Amongst possible candidates are:
Gianfranco Zola? - 35 caps
Gus Poyet? - 26 caps
Martin O'Neill? - 64 caps (here's hoping!)
Ray Houghton? - 73 caps (I think it was concluded it would be unlikely but will put him in)
Gareth Southgate? - 57 caps (I suspect unlikely but worth putting in - though with Wright, Hoddle and Dixon on board I'm not sure there will be another prominent English studio pundit)
I'm sort of guessing the 3rd co-commentator will have a decent proportion from what Arius says.
As long as they can string 500 insightful words between them that's all that matters. As we all know good player does not mean good pundit. Calling messrs Shearer and Vieira to the stand.
I am actually looking forward though to the ITV studio as Keane, Dixon, Hoddle and Strachan is a solid core and Chiles shines at these tournaments, getting longer intros to make his mark. The Spain Italy match during Euro 2012 from the Warsaw cafe was a particular highlight.
Live Copa Del Rey Final: FC Barcelona v Real Madrid
Scott Minto presented alongside Giovannia van Bronckhorst and Gerry Armstrong
Commentators: Kevin Keatings and Terry Gibson
Guillem Balague was working as a reporter at Mestalla Stadium last night (I heard him being interviewed on talkSPORT while in the mixed zone some time after the game), but I don't know if he was involved in Sky Sports 1's live coverage as I didn't catch that much of their half hour of build-up or their analysis after the trophy presentation.
To echo what others have said, it was a fantastic commentary from both Kevin and Terry last night. Both seem to be very underrated in their respective roles.
Personally I have very little problem with their commentary staff. For me, Clive Tyldesley is the outstanding commentator on terrestrial television at the moment, certainly as far as those people used on live games go. I've rated Sam Matterface and Clarke Carlisle both individually on television and as a commentary pairing since they first began working together at the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations. I also think Joe Speight is one of the most promising, knowledgeable freelancers about at the moment and feel he is a perfect candidate for the kind of lower profile group matches I expect to hear him on (more on that later). The only real weak link is Andy Townsend, but even then I think the criticism he receives as a co-commentator is a little overblown. He's not the best but I find him preferable to many of his recent terrestrial counterparts, namely Mark Lawrenson, Mark Bright and Craig Burley (again - sorry to break with the orthodoxy but I really don't get the hype about Burley, he's such a negative listen).
Yes, Peter Drury, Jim Beglin and Jon Champion are big losses, but I don't think they have been replaced at all badly. For all of Matterface and Speight's relative inexperience at this level, everyone has to start somewhere and it's not as if they are total rookies. Both have more live television experience than Steve Wilson and Simon Brotherton had when they went to the World Cup in Korea and Japan with BBC TV 12 years ago - were those of you bemoaning ITV's commentators for this reason similarly criticising the BBC back then?
To pick up on a couple of good points Ariusuk makes...
I wholeheartedly agree with you when it comes to Joe Speight. I'm a weekly viewer of ITV4's Bundesliga highlights and I think he really stands out on that programme, he's clearly knowledgeable about the league and imparts key bits of player/league news relevant to how teams are faring clearly and concisely, as well as doing all the standard stuff like "goal calling" and pronouncing names well. I've also rated what I've heard of his work commentating on the Eredivisie for the old ESPN and now for the league's world feed and feel he has bags of potential going forward.
I also think he's an outstanding candidate for the role he's going to be in - a number three commentator, which will primarily involve him commentating on the less attractive group games involving nations whose players won't be the most familiar of names to a casual audience. Viewers will be the sort of people who watch ITV4's Bundesliga highlights show and those listening intently will likely want to know a bit about players that aren't massively famous outside of hardcore fans, which is something that Joe is very adept at doing.
Contrast Speight as ITV's number three commentator at the World Cup with his BBC counterpart Steve Wilson - a commentator beloved on this thread for reasons I cannot fathom, as he's one of the few commentators who has me reaching for the mute button and syncing up a radio alternative. Over the last five years or so, Speight has done his fair share of commentary on matches from the five of the six major European leagues plus plenty of games in the Europa League. He will have commentated on plenty of players who are going to the World Cup, including many players who'll be less familiar to a British audience. Contrast him with Wilson, who only very rarely commentates on non-Premier League matches outside of major international tournament time. From what little I've heard of him during past World Cups and European Championships, Wilson strikes me as not having the greatest depth of knowledge when it comes to teams outside of the big nations. With that in mind, which of the two on paper would appear to be the better qualified to provide an informative commentary on matches such as Switzerland v France and Belgium v Russia?
I think this is a good point to make, particularly as it pertains to Jon Champion. Quite a few people on here were shocked and/or dismissive when it was announced that Champion had taken the job as successor to Jim Proudfoot as Absolute Radio's Saturday 3pm Premier League commentator, perhaps because radio is deemed as an inferior medium to television and also given that he'd be working for non-BBC, commercial radio at that.
But personally I can see why that particularly job would be appealing to any freelance football commentator, even one of as high a standing as Champion. Absolute Radio are in a position to offer their commentator a guaranteed 32 commentaries on top flight English league games per season for at least the next two seasons. ITV can't offer him anywhere near that number of live or highlights games. Nor are Setanta Ireland able to, where Jon is/was in a rotation of Saturday PL commentators for a single weekly match. I don't believe that even the Premier League's television world feed were able to guarantee him that number of live Saturday games (matches over the course of a weekend is a different matter and I'm sure he'll continue to do Sunday and midweek games for them).
Of course, Absolute may pay less for an individual appearance than the bigger television broadcasters do - I don't know that for certain, but it has been speculated that this is the case - but over the course of the season, Absolute can give Jon 32 guaranteed paydays as opposed to maybe only a dozen to 20ish between Setanta Ireland and Premier League Productions on Saturdays. So committing to the Absolute gig is probably a sound move financially on Champion's part.
I agree and disagree. I do think ITV are being a bit over-criticised on here. I'm not a fan of Clive but understand why he's their #1 (even though if given the choice I'll probably prefer all the BBC's commentator). And as you say, Joe Speight is perfectly fine as a number 3 for me - he's brilliant on the Bundesliga highlights show (the best commentator on there and I have to admit watching it this week the commentary felt weaker without him this week) and would be commentating on minor games for ITV at the World Cup. Plus he's still a young commentator, has good knowledge and a good commentary voice I think so taking him would be a good bet for the future from ITV and he's fine for that role.
The one I don't get is Matterface - I fail to understand how he's suddenly #2 at ITV. I rarely here him but when I have on Talksport I have found him pretty awful to be honest and to be blunt I don't he has a brilliant commentary voice and he may have some commentary background but it does feel odd that someone who was presenting on SSN at the time of the last World Cup is now a #2 commentator for the World Cup.
And I think that lets ITV down - if the commentary line-up was instead Clive Tydlesley, John Champion and Joe Speight it'd look a lot stronger then Clive, Sam Matterface and Joe Speight. You could get away with one more inexperienced commentator but 2 (especially if you're only bringing 3 main ones most likely) is a lot more risky.
Also, the choice of co-commentators is shocking which again lets ITV down. Both Townsend or Carlisle seem dreadful in that role and are their main guys and so when you combine that with the commentary inexperience ITV's line-up can look a little weak. It's incredible to see how weak ITV's co-commentary line-up is too when they have had Pleat and Beglin working for them not too recently who are both fine enough.
I do think the choice of #2 commentator and the co-commentators in general does really let ITV down - because otherwise there is some decent stuff there. And their punditry line-up strikes me as OK more often than not.
The irony is too everyone here hated Drury at the last World Cup yet seems desperate to have him back now. I do think we all forget how cringeworthy his ITV commentaries used to get. That "Goal for All Africa" commentary is still awful to this day.
I like both Wilson and Speight - both are very listenable commentators which is the main thing for me. As long as a commentary doesn't annoy me and sounds good then I like them and both do their job well. I do think what makes the ITV commentators line-up look worse than it is is that the BBC's 4 main likely commentators are all experienced and have been to major tournament numerous times and done big games before (MOTD helps).
I'd say on the BBC though the issue like ITV is that the co-commentary may also be very weak and I do think the BBC co-commentary weakness is ignored on here a bit. Lawro isn't great in the role and BBC have essentially just put a man with little co-commentary experience (that I know of) in Phil Neville on an England WC game to avoid putting Lawro on it.
For all the ITV criticism of taking Speight I'd argue the Phil Neville thing on BBC isn't much better - just throwing him in at the deep end on an England game which could be great or could be dreadful. And aside from Neville and Lawro I can't really think of any BBC co-commentators and any I can think of aren't exactly outstanding. I think Sky aside the co-commentary on TV really is poor.
And if the BBC punditry line-up contains the usual lot (Savage, Shearer, Owen, Hansen, Lawro etc.) then it probably won't be that great either - and it'll probably be the guest pundits outshining them as always. I hope we get to see lots of Leonardo and Thierry Henry at the World Cup (if both are going).
So to be honest I'm not exactly enthused by either the BBC or ITV rumoured line-ups - both have some huge weaknesses.
Bit late, I'm afraid, given the first Sports Extra match was on last night (and I mentioned it weeks ago). BT Sport's coverage begins tonight, of course.
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I'm afraid Simon Brotherton wasn't commentating for BBC Television during the 2002 World Cup, he only broadcast on the radio.
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You're right with your general point, though, and I would suggest it's not different to Peter Drury going with ITV in 1998 after far fewer TV commentaries (he'd only joined ITV in March, and before that had done one or two on the Beeb), and virtually no live games (he ended up doing half of a Champions League match live, but only because of a delay in the other one, it was totally unplanned). He'd done a lot of radio commentary but so has Sam Matterface.
I dunno if Phil Neville is that big a risk, you've got an experienced commentator alongside him to help him out. It's no different to ITV using Gareth Southgate on the England games in 2006, he'd only done the odd bit of punditry and one (highlights only) League Cup match for ITV before the first England game in that tournament. Graeme Le Saux was also brand new when he started doing England games for the Beeb after Euro 2004.