The prices are as bad as portrayed. You're missing the point of 4G. It's not about phone calls or text messages. The whole crux of ALL of EE's marketing for this product is about speed of data, so if it's all about data, the ability to make phone calls and texts is secondary. Anyone that is being addressed by the marketing of 4GEE is interested first and foremost in data, and in that respect, there are much cheaper options available.
Couldn't agree more! Particularly the BiB - do EE's Kevin Bacon ads even mention the unlimited calls and texts? Or is it all about the video streaming and online gaming? Can't say I'd like to do online gaming with a 500MB data limit but maybe that's just me. As you say though, for anyone who's all about the calls and texts why would they sign up to a network that's all about the 4G data.
Pricing wise overall, as said the prices are as bad as portrayed. Compared to T-Mobile (who are currently offering unlimited calls texts and data for £21 a month on SIM only, from £41 a month with a handset as you can see here) they look like daylight robbery. Compared to Orange they look a tad better and, I suppose, more realistic (how long did unlimited data plans take to arrive on 3G after all - 4G was never going to have that right from the off), but still, unless you're after 3GB of data you're invariably paying more for just the same or less - quite a bit more in some cases.
The networks can all offer unlimited calls and texts now as their termination rates have been slashed by Ofcom from what they previously were. In addition operators know that most customers only use a certain number of minutes and texts each month and that number is not rising unlike data consumption. Lots of calls and texts on a higher priced plan are perceived as good value for money but in reality most customers don't use them!
EE's unique selling point is data and speed of data offered making video streaming etc easier to use and more accessible. Sadly with the data limits that won't be the case for most on their price plans. Perhaps the data pricing has something to do with the bandwidth EE have available on 1800MHz presently. Maybe they don't want to be flooded by high volume downloaders causing a poor experience for average users? Had EE offered high speed unlimited data, calls and texts they would have been onto a winning proposition but there must be a very good reason why they did not choose to scoop up as many customers as possible whilst they have a clear advantage with LTE technology.
Most of the bigger operators maintain strict data limits whether it's 3G, HSPA+ or LTE at any price, which makes one wonder why?
One thing is for sure, EE's initial offerings are not generous and I doubt if many will be tempted to take up their price plans.
So only because you compare EE's offer to a, in my eyes, rather s**t one, makes the EE one look decent?
Yes, I'm not disputing that Orange prices are at the high end (as are O2) compared with certain others (as I said in my OP I also have a Three SIM giving me 15GB for £15) but the point I was making is that EE are not particularly taking advantage of their 4G monopoly, if anything their 4G is better value than their 3G. I choose to pay £31 pm in my phone because I perceive the product I get for that as worth the extra.
Yes, I'm not disputing that Orange prices are at the high end (as are O2) compared with certain others (as I said in my OP I also have a Three SIM giving me 15GB for £15) but the point I was making is that EE are not particularly taking advantage of their 4G monopoly, if anything their 4G is better value than their 3G. I choose to pay £31 pm in my phone because I perceive the product I get for that as worth the extra.
How are O2 overpriced when they do Unl Mins&Texts & 1GB Data for £20pm on a 12 month contract (2GB- £25pm)
I mean seriously i don't know why anyone would pay £31pm for a sim only. Yes you yourself perceive the value to be good but that doesn't mean that it is.
In this day and age of Full monty/one plan/on and on/red plan etc... for around £30-£36pm you can get the latest smartphone and 1GB/2GB/unlimited data with unlimited calls/texts. Even less per month for cheaper phones.
So thats why £36pm + £149 upfront for 500mb data is a bit underwhelming.
Another example is that when you run out of data you can pay £3 extra for 50mb (one 1 min HD Youtube video). On three you can pay £3 when you run out of data for truly unlimited data!
£53 and it's 1GB or 4 GB for £68 if you look now, but AT&T isn't the cheapest I don't think and both of those include Unlimited Talk & Text nationally across all states and the iPhone 5 for £120 with a £20 activation fee.
£53 and it's 1GB or 4 GB for £68 if you look now, but AT&T isn't the cheapest I don't think and both of those include Unlimited Talk & Text nationally across all states and the iPhone 5 for £120 with a £20 activation fee.
Not any better for Verizon either
You have to pay £120 for the phone, £20 activation fee
Then for Unlimited Talk/Text and 8GB Data it's £82pm
Here it's £30 upfront for the phone, no activation fee
Then for Unlimited Talk/Text and 8GB Data it's £56pm
But tbh the USA have always had to pay more, even their 3G prices are sky high. The carriers have too much control over there. I remember the AT&T boss being upset and losing sleep and saying if he knew how many people were going to buy the iPhone he would have charged more for the data plans. Even though they were overpriced already.
£53 and it's 1GB or 4 GB for £68 if you look now, but AT&T isn't the cheapest I don't think and both of those include Unlimited Talk & Text nationally across all states and the iPhone 5 for £120 with a £20 activation fee.
£88 for 5GB LTE, Unlimited calls & text. Plus you don't get clone phone, free underground wifi, 2 for 1 cinema tickets etc etc...
They have a lot of local carriers out there though I think, and of course with the US being 50 times the geographical size you are getting national calls across the whole of the US.
We do quite well on prices in the UK though you are right. 4G prices will come down I'm sure next year.
There are some UK mobile networks who offer unlimited data but is that realistic and sustainable?
Perhaps when you have less than 50% of the subscribers of others it is an option to gain more customers but with a finite amount of bandwidth it's probably not sustainable and the usual terms and conditions small print will allow throttling etc when the need arises and by which times customers are hooked into a contract.
EE, Vodafone and O2 have been cautious with data limit offerings - for a reason? Vodafone have the biggest fibre optic backbone of any UK network and extensive 3G coverage with HSPA+ but they still only offer 2GB a month max on contracts. Are they doing that because they just don't want to compete or is there a good technical explanation for their consumer offering?
Why have the UK's biggest mobile network operators chosen to limit data on their price plans?
There are some UK mobile networks who offer unlimited data but is that realistic?
Perhaps when you have less than 50% of the subscribers of others it is an option to gain more customers but with a finite amount of bandwidth it's probably not sustainable and the usual terms and conditions small print will allow throttling etc when the need arises and by which times customers are hooked into a contract.
EE, Vodafone and O2 have been cautious with data limit offerings - for a reason? Vodafone have the biggest fibre optic backbone of any UK network and extensive 3G coverage with HSPA+ but they still only offer 2GB a month max on contracts. Are they doing that because they just don't want to compete or is there a good technical explanation for their consumer offering?
There are some UK mobile networks who offer unlimited data but is that realistic?
Perhaps when you have less than 50% of the subscribers of others it is an option to gain more customers but with a finite amount of bandwidth it's probably not sustainable and the usual terms and conditions small print will allow throttling etc when the need arises and by which times customers are hooked into a contract.
EE, Vodafone and O2 have been cautious with data limit offerings - for a reason? Vodafone have the biggest fibre optic backbone of any UK network and extensive 3G coverage with HSPA+ but they still only offer 2GB a month max on contracts. Are they doing that because they just don't want to compete or is there a good technical explanation for their consumer offering?
You do understand that different providers have their USP or position themselves differently in the market? 3 went out and pitched as a mobile broadband provider and are the market leader in that, they also went after the smartphone consumer market, and built a network to support high data throughput.
Whilst it's true Vodafone OWN a fibre backbone now, 3 and EE pay for backhaul services on 2 of the other major players who own theirs. EE and 3 are offering the fastest speeds in the UK they show no signs of suffering from offering unlimited, especially with gigabit Ethernet backhaul, upgraded HSPA+, DC HSDPA and more 3G cells than the others.
Customer growth is at record numbers, with revenues up 12% this year, whilst O2 and Vodafone didn't gain any significant numbers and revenues were down, a lot.
If 3 can process 9 Petabytes of data a month, but O2 only 3 then there is no technical expatiation.
People slating the EE 4g prices (I work for 'em) always leave out the value of the unlimited calls and texts, and focus only on the data allowance, as if that's all you were getting. Now, I'm a good example of someone who doesn't do much calling,internet is my main activity on my phone. But,believe it or not, there are people who also like/need to talk a lot. Their perception of value may therefore be different.
How many peole who sign up for 4G will be interested in unlimited calls and texts? Who calls and tests peole these days?
Orange are quite within their rights to charge what they want for 4G as they have no competiton. But don't try and make it out as good value.
How many peole who sign up for 4G will be interested in unlimited calls and texts? Who calls and tests peole these days?
Mobile phones are still used for lots of voice calls and texting..... despite the age of the Internet and Facebook messaging etc.
I teach youngsters in an FE college and the biggest distraction in classes is still the use of SMS, Facebook is becoming more popular for messaging but SMS and BBM are currently the biggest distractions because most young people have those facilities presently and they are free to use on handsets they can afford without having to subscribe to expensive monthly contracts.
MBNL have installed Gigabit ethernet connections at the HSPA+ / DC sites.. which can then be upgraded to 10/100 and i think even 1000 gigabit without changes at the cabinet, fibre cables themselves or even at a local level. If its good enough for LTE then it shall be good enough for 3G. Essentially the 4G customers are paying for the upgrades and the Fully Monty/AYCE are reaping the benefits of them.
Mobile phones are still used for lots of voice calls and texting..... despite the age of the Internet and Facebook messaging etc.
I teach youngsters in an FE college and the biggest distraction in classes is still the use of SMS, Facebook is becoming more popular for messaging but SMS and BBM are currently the biggest distractions because most young people have those facilities presently and they are free to use on handsets they can afford without having to subscribe to expensive monthly contracts.
Voice calls dropped in the last year by 10% for landlines and 1% for mobile phones. SMS was popular, but with iMessage, whatsapp and facebook messenger growing at such a rate I wouldn't think it will be long before SMS drops.
Unsurprisingly, the shift away from voice appears to be led by teenagers and young adults. Ofcom said 96 percent of 16-24 year olds use "some form of text-based application" each day to communicate with friends and family.
SMS is used by 90 percent of this age group on a daily basis, and social networking by 73 percent. Only 67 percent make mobile phone calls on a daily basis and — according to Ofcom's survey — only 63 percent talk face-to-face with friends and family every day.
"Our research reveals that in just a few short years, new technology has fundamentally changed the way that we communicate," Ofcom research director James Thickett said in a statement. "Talking face to face or on the phone are no longer the most common ways for us to interact with each other."
Ofcom pointed out that the change was brought about by a "rapid increase in ownership of internet-connected devices". The average UK household now owns three types of internet-enabled device (smartphones and laptops, for instance) and 15 percent have six or more such gadgets.
"Overall, the time spent using the internet on mobile devices is up by a quarter (24.7 percent) year on year, with the overall volume of mobile data consumed doubling in the 18 months to January 2012," the regulator noted.
MBNL have installed Gigabit ethernet connections at the HSPA+ / DC sites.. which can then be upgraded to 10/100 and i think even 1000 gigabit without changes at the cabinet, fibre cables themselves or even at a local level. If its good enough for LTE then it shall be good enough for 3G. Essentially the 4G customers are paying for the upgrades and the Fully Monty/AYCE are reaping the benefits of them.
That does not account for the capacity of the wireless provision though.
It's all very well getting data to the sites but the cells have a finite capacity to deliver data to customers via 3G with HSPA+, or even LTE.
Lots of simultaneous YouTube, Netflix, iPlayer, LoveFilm, Torrent downloads, Gamers etc on a cell can max it out and cause issues for casual browsers and others who just want to make voice calls and text. Networks have to ensure there is a quality of service and a free for all is unlikely to be able to provide that. It's a good marketing ploy for a time though when the capacity exists due to the low numbers using a service!
That does not account for the capacity of the wireless provision though.
It's all very well getting data to the sites but the cells have a finite capacity to deliver data to customers via 3G with even HSPA+.
Lots of simultaneous YouTube, Netflix, iPlayer, LoveFilm, Gamers etc on a cell can max it out and cause issues for casual browsers and users who just want to call and text. Networks have to ensure there is a quality of service and a free for all is unlikely to be able to provide that.
If 1 provider can deliver 9 petabytes in a month of mobile data to consumers then there's nothing to stop another, who actually only delivers 3, and offers very restricted packages.
Put this together with the Ofcom research director's comments in my last post and you can see why Britain's smallest network is the fastest growing at a rate of over 1 Million a year, and Britain's largest network is losing revenues and losing out through lack of investment in high capacity data, with less than half it's customers smartphone customers and selling very little in the way of data packages or mobile broadband access, tablet access etc.
Well...If talking EE They do have a heap of 1800 capacity even after Three buying some and running a 2G network which i'd imagine they will start to tap 2G customers to upgrade. Imagine the capacity if they buy some 800 or 700 or both....
No idea why the networks are still selling 2G phones..
Didn't the Three director say his network is only running at 17% overall..?
At a press event recently Three's chief executive David Dyson surprised some by revealing that the firm was not focused on 4G.
Instead it is concentrating on upgrading its network using a 3G/4G hybrid technology called DC-HSPA, which can offers speeds of up to 20Mbps.
Mr Dyson revealed that, despite past insistence that Three needs new spectrum urgently because it is running out of space, its network is actually running at just 17% capacity.
While Everything Everywhere's slick transformation to EE has grabbed media attention, there will definitely be no such marketing make-overs at Three.
The name was more about performance than technology, he said, even after it acquired 4G spectrum.
Saw that but I'm not convinced....... 3 have nothing to loose by offering all you can eat as a proposition because if they don't they won't sell and will not get any additional revenue. The problem is they only have a finite amount of wireless spectrum to deliver data and will have to address the issue of heavy users especially in cities. They already have with Trafficsense and had to retreat swiftly but the issue will come back as more are attracted by the offer of unlimited data and especially with those who attempt to use 3 as an alternative to wired connections for streaming and heavy downloading.
The big question is if it's technically feasible to offer unlimited data why the majors have not chosen to compete head on? They have done with calls and texts so why not data, even EE with LTE has steered clear of that proposition.
Comments
Couldn't agree more! Particularly the BiB - do EE's Kevin Bacon ads even mention the unlimited calls and texts? Or is it all about the video streaming and online gaming? Can't say I'd like to do online gaming with a 500MB data limit but maybe that's just me. As you say though, for anyone who's all about the calls and texts why would they sign up to a network that's all about the 4G data.
Pricing wise overall, as said the prices are as bad as portrayed. Compared to T-Mobile (who are currently offering unlimited calls texts and data for £21 a month on SIM only, from £41 a month with a handset as you can see here) they look like daylight robbery. Compared to Orange they look a tad better and, I suppose, more realistic (how long did unlimited data plans take to arrive on 3G after all - 4G was never going to have that right from the off), but still, unless you're after 3GB of data you're invariably paying more for just the same or less - quite a bit more in some cases.
EE's unique selling point is data and speed of data offered making video streaming etc easier to use and more accessible. Sadly with the data limits that won't be the case for most on their price plans. Perhaps the data pricing has something to do with the bandwidth EE have available on 1800MHz presently. Maybe they don't want to be flooded by high volume downloaders causing a poor experience for average users? Had EE offered high speed unlimited data, calls and texts they would have been onto a winning proposition but there must be a very good reason why they did not choose to scoop up as many customers as possible whilst they have a clear advantage with LTE technology.
Most of the bigger operators maintain strict data limits whether it's 3G, HSPA+ or LTE at any price, which makes one wonder why?
One thing is for sure, EE's initial offerings are not generous and I doubt if many will be tempted to take up their price plans.
Cheapest iPhone 5 on a AT&T 4G plan comes with only 300mb a month, with unlimited calls and texts added = £68 A MONTH!
http://i.imgur.com/mAAae.png
Yes, I'm not disputing that Orange prices are at the high end (as are O2) compared with certain others (as I said in my OP I also have a Three SIM giving me 15GB for £15) but the point I was making is that EE are not particularly taking advantage of their 4G monopoly, if anything their 4G is better value than their 3G. I choose to pay £31 pm in my phone because I perceive the product I get for that as worth the extra.
How are O2 overpriced when they do Unl Mins&Texts & 1GB Data for £20pm on a 12 month contract (2GB- £25pm)
I mean seriously i don't know why anyone would pay £31pm for a sim only. Yes you yourself perceive the value to be good but that doesn't mean that it is.
In this day and age of Full monty/one plan/on and on/red plan etc... for around £30-£36pm you can get the latest smartphone and 1GB/2GB/unlimited data with unlimited calls/texts. Even less per month for cheaper phones.
So thats why £36pm + £149 upfront for 500mb data is a bit underwhelming.
Another example is that when you run out of data you can pay £3 extra for 50mb (one 1 min HD Youtube video). On three you can pay £3 when you run out of data for truly unlimited data!
£53 and it's 1GB or 4 GB for £68 if you look now, but AT&T isn't the cheapest I don't think and both of those include Unlimited Talk & Text nationally across all states and the iPhone 5 for £120 with a £20 activation fee.
Not any better for Verizon either
You have to pay £120 for the phone, £20 activation fee
Then for Unlimited Talk/Text and 8GB Data it's £82pm
Here it's £30 upfront for the phone, no activation fee
Then for Unlimited Talk/Text and 8GB Data it's £56pm
But tbh the USA have always had to pay more, even their 3G prices are sky high. The carriers have too much control over there. I remember the AT&T boss being upset and losing sleep and saying if he knew how many people were going to buy the iPhone he would have charged more for the data plans. Even though they were overpriced already.
£88 for 5GB LTE, Unlimited calls & text. Plus you don't get clone phone, free underground wifi, 2 for 1 cinema tickets etc etc...
http://i.imgur.com/eVZp0.png
We do quite well on prices in the UK though you are right. 4G prices will come down I'm sure next year.
Perhaps when you have less than 50% of the subscribers of others it is an option to gain more customers but with a finite amount of bandwidth it's probably not sustainable and the usual terms and conditions small print will allow throttling etc when the need arises and by which times customers are hooked into a contract.
EE, Vodafone and O2 have been cautious with data limit offerings - for a reason? Vodafone have the biggest fibre optic backbone of any UK network and extensive 3G coverage with HSPA+ but they still only offer 2GB a month max on contracts. Are they doing that because they just don't want to compete or is there a good technical explanation for their consumer offering?
Why have the UK's biggest mobile network operators chosen to limit data on their price plans?
Going straight for the jugular this time eh?
You do understand that different providers have their USP or position themselves differently in the market? 3 went out and pitched as a mobile broadband provider and are the market leader in that, they also went after the smartphone consumer market, and built a network to support high data throughput.
Whilst it's true Vodafone OWN a fibre backbone now, 3 and EE pay for backhaul services on 2 of the other major players who own theirs. EE and 3 are offering the fastest speeds in the UK they show no signs of suffering from offering unlimited, especially with gigabit Ethernet backhaul, upgraded HSPA+, DC HSDPA and more 3G cells than the others.
Customer growth is at record numbers, with revenues up 12% this year, whilst O2 and Vodafone didn't gain any significant numbers and revenues were down, a lot.
If 3 can process 9 Petabytes of data a month, but O2 only 3 then there is no technical expatiation.
Orange are quite within their rights to charge what they want for 4G as they have no competiton. But don't try and make it out as good value.
Mobile phones are still used for lots of voice calls and texting..... despite the age of the Internet and Facebook messaging etc.
I teach youngsters in an FE college and the biggest distraction in classes is still the use of SMS, Facebook is becoming more popular for messaging but SMS and BBM are currently the biggest distractions because most young people have those facilities presently and they are free to use on handsets they can afford without having to subscribe to expensive monthly contracts.
Voice calls dropped in the last year by 10% for landlines and 1% for mobile phones. SMS was popular, but with iMessage, whatsapp and facebook messenger growing at such a rate I wouldn't think it will be long before SMS drops.
http://www.zdnet.com/mobile-voice-falls-for-the-first-time-but-text-is-booming-7000001106/
That does not account for the capacity of the wireless provision though.
It's all very well getting data to the sites but the cells have a finite capacity to deliver data to customers via 3G with HSPA+, or even LTE.
Lots of simultaneous YouTube, Netflix, iPlayer, LoveFilm, Torrent downloads, Gamers etc on a cell can max it out and cause issues for casual browsers and others who just want to make voice calls and text. Networks have to ensure there is a quality of service and a free for all is unlikely to be able to provide that. It's a good marketing ploy for a time though when the capacity exists due to the low numbers using a service!
If 1 provider can deliver 9 petabytes in a month of mobile data to consumers then there's nothing to stop another, who actually only delivers 3, and offers very restricted packages.
Put this together with the Ofcom research director's comments in my last post and you can see why Britain's smallest network is the fastest growing at a rate of over 1 Million a year, and Britain's largest network is losing revenues and losing out through lack of investment in high capacity data, with less than half it's customers smartphone customers and selling very little in the way of data packages or mobile broadband access, tablet access etc.
No idea why the networks are still selling 2G phones..
Didn't the Three director say his network is only running at 17% overall..?
Need some reference to that!
In the very topic you started.. and provided the link.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1761776
>>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20408514 on the right.
Saw that but I'm not convinced....... 3 have nothing to loose by offering all you can eat as a proposition because if they don't they won't sell and will not get any additional revenue. The problem is they only have a finite amount of wireless spectrum to deliver data and will have to address the issue of heavy users especially in cities. They already have with Trafficsense and had to retreat swiftly but the issue will come back as more are attracted by the offer of unlimited data and especially with those who attempt to use 3 as an alternative to wired connections for streaming and heavy downloading.
The big question is if it's technically feasible to offer unlimited data why the majors have not chosen to compete head on? They have done with calls and texts so why not data, even EE with LTE has steered clear of that proposition.
There's a reason I don't let myself get involved in these 'friendly debates'. :rolleyes: