Are introverts discriminated against?

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  • The WizardThe Wizard Posts: 11,071
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    I'm an introvert, I also have social anxiety and life can be a struggle, People tend to think I am rude and up my own arse when in fact its the total opposite, My self esteem is so low I probably think you'd not want to talk to me or I have nothing to say that you would want to hear.

    Someone above mentioned work, work has always been a struggle for me, floating from crap job to crap job never progressing never fitting in and always being the first one out the door if redundancies loom. In my previous job we all got made redundant however a colleague managed to raise enough money to buy over the business, everyone was hired back bar me, and thats with me giving up things like paternity leave and holidays for the benefit of the company, going in every day and actually working rather than ball licking around the coffee machine. Yes the word doormat does spring to mind, but what has happened on more than one occasion is that people walk over me for so long, I then stand up to them yet I am the 1 in the wrong, I am the one who gets marched to the office with no support from anyone.

    So in a sence yes I would say we are discriminated against.

    I could have written that same post myself. I totally understand being treated like a doormat and the minute you kick back against being treated unfairly you are the troublemaker and the first to be marched out the door come redundancy time.

    I got the same treatment with friends too because I was a soft touch but the minute you snap and say enough is enough you are immediately the bad guy. I've learned to actually enjoy and prefer my own company now to the point that if I do go out with a friend I actually dislike it compared to being on my own and being free to do my own thing.

    I love nothing more than going out by myself and having a wander about and doing my own thing. I've always got my phone with me so I'm not without company when I've got DS.
  • StarpussStarpuss Posts: 12,845
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    RebelScum wrote: »
    It's a very real thing in the world of business. If you have (potential) clients or persons you're negotiating with, then being able to identify their type and knowing what triggers behaviours in that type is a major advantage. Not just with external people either, also with people in the same office.

    I'm going to look further into it. Might make negotiating office politics easier :cool:
  • big macbig mac Posts: 4,583
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    This is very true. Introverts usually just get on with things and don't cause trouble. Another reason why employers should not disregard them.

    Sadly. though, quite often they do.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    AOTB wrote: »
    BIB- I think you're either confusing me with someone else or you've just totally made that up.

    Feel free to show me where I've repeatedly implied that introverts are incapable of talking to other people or again this might be seen as more nonsense.

    I'm all for having a debate but all 3 of your posts to date to me in this thread have been bizarre to say the least.

    Actually yes, I think I was confusing you with RebelScum, sorry!
  • MustabusterMustabuster Posts: 5,973
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    Certain jobs are more suited to certain personality types. For example, extroverts may be more suited to call centre types jobs as they may need to deal with difficult customers or are told to **** off 100 times everyday and they'll need to bounce back from that day in day out. If you can't find a job or are in a job you're not comfortable with, then change your job/career but don't blame society or the world for not being to your specifications.
  • The WizardThe Wizard Posts: 11,071
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    big mac wrote: »
    Sadly. though, quite often they do.

    I don't know how often is often but I will admit that I don't suffer fools and people telling me what to do if I believe they're wrong and I know what's best. I've never caused trouble at work but I don't conform to what the sheeple want me to do.

    I had a boss once that tried to get me to do a specific task but I'd found a quicker and easier way of doing it and she couldn't accept it that I refused to do it the way 'it's always been done'. Another example is, I wouldn't sit with the others at lunch break. I used to go out by myself for a walk into town or go home for lunch and I don't participate in work's parties or after work activities that require me to be chatty and sociable with people I'd rather not mix with. Again this makes you unpopular.

    I'm very much my own person with my own ideas and employers don't like people who think for themselves and challenge authority and they don't like it when you're seen to be a non team player and best buddies with everyone.

    Sorry but life doesn't work like that. We're all different people with different personalities.
  • Leicester_HunkLeicester_Hunk Posts: 18,316
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    EpsilonVaz wrote: »
    I'm an introvert (MBTI type: INTP).

    We definitely live in an extrovert centric society. It's not a problem, you won't get "walked all over" for being an introvert.

    Not all introverts are the same, neither are all extroverts. It's important to find a good balance somewhere, if you are too far to one end it may cause you problems.

    I'm an ESFP on Myers Briggs (and a Belbin resource investigator - a whole other story) and I am outgoing and love mixing with people. BUT, gobby, lairy, party party types completely p*** me off and I don't want to mix with them at all. They exhaust me.
  • Leicester_HunkLeicester_Hunk Posts: 18,316
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    I don't agree that someone who is too extroverted would face the same problem.I've seen extreme extroverts being given jobs that they are not really very good at, and just using their loud personality to bluff their way through.

    I worked with a woman like that. This is EXACTLY what she did. I remember posting about her behaviour and being shot down in flames by many respondents.

    In the end she was "asked to resign". Her extraordinary behaviour (not all of which I posted about) was to cover up the basic fact she could not do the job.
  • CelticMythCelticMyth Posts: 3,090
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    Certain jobs are more suited to certain personality types. For example, extroverts may be more suited to call centre types jobs as they may need to deal with difficult customers or are told to **** of 100 times everyday and they'll need to bounce back from that day in day out. If you can't find a job or are in a job you're not comfortable with, then change your job/career but don't blame society or the world for not being to your specifications.

    Yes, but it has become so deeply ingrained in society now that "extroverts are better than introverts" that even in a job that doesn't require it, it will be demanded of you to pretend to be extroverted in the interview 99% of the time.
  • IzzySIzzyS Posts: 11,045
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    ...Yes, this is probably true, but there will be many people who are trying to give the illusion of being an extrovert, and they shouldn't they have to, that was my point really.

    Yes I agree. Sorry if I took your comment the wrong way then.
  • MustabusterMustabuster Posts: 5,973
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    CelticMyth wrote: »
    Yes, but it has become so deeply ingrained in society now that "extroverts are better than introverts" that even in a job that doesn't require it, it will be demanded of you to pretend to be extroverted in the interview 99% of the time.

    Really? What makes you think this? The interviews I've been in are there to ascertain whether you're capable of doing the job and whether you'll fit into the team. Note that fitting into a team does not mean you need to be an extrovert like some people hear seem to be suggesting.
  • pickwickpickwick Posts: 25,739
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    Mmm, there's not overt discrimination, but the world - the capitalist Western world, at least - is set up for extraverts rather than introverts in much the same way that it's set up for men rather than women. Whenever an introvert/ a woman brings up something that's a problem for them, the solution given is always "you should act more like an extravert/ a man" rather than "let's see if we can change the system so it works for everyone".

    I particularly hate all the stuff about selling yourself, and demanding pay rises, and harassing people till you get discounts in shops. That doesn't even totally come under extraversion, mind you - it's a combination of extraversion (that makes you capable of doing it) and just being a ******.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9,720
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    Certain jobs are more suited to certain personality types. For example, extroverts may be more suited to call centre types jobs as they may need to deal with difficult customers or are told to **** of 100 times everyday and they'll need to bounce back from that day in day out. If you can't find a job or are in a job you're not comfortable with, then change your job/career but don't blame society or the world for not being to your specifications.

    A lot of introverts can take abuse and stand up for themselves. Introversion isn't the same as shyness.

    I think some employers are scared of introverts because it's hard to know what they're thinking.
  • Pandora 9Pandora 9 Posts: 2,350
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    The Wizard wrote: »
    I could have written that same post myself. I totally understand being treated like a doormat and the minute you kick back against being treated unfairly you are the troublemaker and the first to be marched out the door come redundancy time.

    I got the same treatment with friends too because I was a soft touch but the minute you snap and say enough is enough you are immediately the bad guy. I've learned to actually enjoy and prefer my own company now to the point that if I do go out with a friend I actually dislike it compared to being on my own and being free to do my own thing.

    I love nothing more than going out by myself and having a wander about and doing my own thing. I've always got my phone with me so I'm not without company when I've got DS.

    I find it sad that your phone is your only companion. Your wife should fill that role imho.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    I worked with a woman like that. This is EXACTLY what she did. I remember posting about her behaviour and being shot down in flames by many respondents.

    In the end she was "asked to resign". Her extraordinary behaviour (not all of which I posted about) was to cover up the basic fact she could not do the job.

    I think there may be quite a lot of people like this!
    CelticMyth wrote: »
    Yes, but it has become so deeply ingrained in society now that "extroverts are better than introverts" that even in a job that doesn't require it, it will be demanded of you to pretend to be extroverted in the interview 99% of the time.

    This sums up the whole situation and problem perfectly.
    IzzyS wrote: »
    Yes I agree. Sorry if I took your comment the wrong way then.

    That's okay, I probably didn't make it clear enough anyway.
    Meilie wrote: »
    A lot of introverts can take abuse and stand up for themselves. Introversion isn't the same as shyness.

    I think some employers are scared of introverts because it's hard to know what they're thinking.

    I hadn't thought of this before, but I think you could have a very good point there, it is definitely harder to know what they are thinking.
  • WanderinWonderWanderinWonder Posts: 3,719
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    Certain jobs are more suited to certain personality types. For example, extroverts may be more suited to call centre types jobs as they may need to deal with difficult customers or are told to **** off 100 times everyday and they'll need to bounce back from that day in day out. If you can't find a job or are in a job you're not comfortable with, then change your job/career but don't blame society or the world for not being to your specifications.

    Actually, introverts can be surprisingly good at sales/call centre roles. They tend to be better at empathising with the prospective/existing customer, and tend to be more sensitive to what the customer is saying/needs/wants. That can make them very good at these types of roles. But you have a point about how they might find such a role far more draining than an extrovert would.
  • RebelScumRebelScum Posts: 16,008
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    Actually yes, I think I was confusing you with RebelScum, sorry!

    Well, it's not the only mistake you've made. I haven't repeatedly implied that introverts are incapable of talking to other people. What I wrote was:
    A job is often more than simply carrying out a series of tasks. Often staff have to be able to communicate effectively with customers and other members of the team. If a person cannot do that then they are not capable of doing the job and it's quite right that the job should go to someone else.

    That was in response to you writing that people may not be considered for jobs they are perfectly capable of doing, simply due to their more reserved personality.

    People with more reserved personalities may find it harder to communicate as effectively as someone with a less reserved personality in some environments, hence why I used "If". Communicating effectively doesn't just mean speaking to other people, it can also mean being able speak spontaneously, in a room full of noisy people. A reserved person may struggle with that, and if a job requires that type of communication then unless they are prepared to step out of their comfort zone (which apparently you aren't prepared to do ;-) ) then they may struggle to communicate effectively in that environment, which would perhaps then not make them ideal candidates for that job. Again, please note the use of the word may.

    That's a long way away from me implying introverts are incapable of talking to other people. You've put two and two together and come up with five.
  • pickwickpickwick Posts: 25,739
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    Really? What makes you think this? The interviews I've been in are there to ascertain whether you're capable of doing the job and whether you'll fit into the team. Note that fitting into a team does not mean you need to be an extrovert like some people hear seem to be suggesting.
    I had a group interview once, with six or seven people I'd never met, where there were people measuring the exact lengths of time we stayed silent during the discussion and marking us down if they were too long. That seemed very much set up to favour extraverts to me. (And no, it's not a job where talking a lot during meetings is important!)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    RebelScum wrote: »
    Well, it's not the only mistake you've made. I haven't repeatedly implied that introverts are incapable of talking to other people. What I wrote was:



    That was in response to you writing that people may not be considered for jobs they are perfectly capable of doing, simply due to their more reserved personality.

    People with more reserved personalities may find it harder to communicate as effectively as someone with a less reserved personality in some environments, hence why I used "If". Communicating effectively doesn't just mean having the confidence to speak to other people, it can also mean being able speak spontaneously, in a room full of noisy people. A reserved person may struggle with that, and if a job requires that type of communication then unless they are prepared to step out of their comfort zone (which apparently you aren't prepared to do ;-) ) then they may struggle to communicate effectively in that environment, which would perhaps then not make them ideal candidates for that job. Again, please note the use of the word may.

    That's a long way away from me implying introverts are incapable of talking to other people. You've put two and two together and come up with five.

    I don't believe a person would struggle with talking to a room of noisy people if they were reserved, only if they were shy. Being reserved is not actually the same as being shy, even though vast amounts of people seem to believe it is.

    Anyway how many jobs would require that skill? Not too many. That would be a very specific skill, for chairing a meeting or similar.

    I am talking about non-managerial posts that require just normal communication, and yet still cause employers to discriminate against the introverts.
  • The WizardThe Wizard Posts: 11,071
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    Pandora 9 wrote: »
    I find it sad that your phone is your only companion. Your wife should fill that role imho.

    My phone isn't my only companion. It's ONE of them. No more than Facebook is for many people.

    However me and my wife are not joined at the hip. On the times when we're not doing stuff together I like to have time by myself. It's just nice sometimes to sit in a pub up the end of the bar listening to the music having a read of the paper or looking through DS and not feeling like I have to be sociable. Sometimes it's nice to people watch and just observe. I will sometimes join in on a conversation or chat to the landlord if I feel like it but it's just nice sometimes to not have to think about someone else and if I don't feel like talking then I don't have to. I can get up when I want and go to another pub if I want without having to think about what someone else wants to do. I also like going for walks by myself and just sitting in the park by myself being all quiet and listening to the birds or sometimes I'll take my sketchbook or jot down some poetry. You can't do that if someone is nattering at you all the time or if someone wants your constant attention.

    Is no different than people who sit on a bus listening to their music or people who go into a pub and read the newspaper. Some people thrive on peace and quiet and being able to just sit and contemplate. I'm one of those people.
  • AOTBAOTB Posts: 9,708
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    Actually yes, I think I was confusing you with RebelScum, sorry!

    Ah ok, appreciate the reply and all cool! :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    pickwick wrote: »
    I had a group interview once, with six or seven people I'd never met, where there were people measuring the exact lengths of time we stayed silent during the discussion and marking us down if they were too long. That seemed very much set up to favour extraverts to me. (And no, it's not a job where talking a lot during meetings is important!)

    I had a group interview quite a few years ago at Argos, where they were scoring us on who pushed themselves forwards (amongst other things). It was a cashier job. The customers are coming to you, so you don't even have to approach anyone anyway!

    Group interviews are such a silly idea. I mean, I'm no expert in recruitment, but how can you possibly gauge a person's suitability for a job, if you are not focusing on them individually? It's just a lazy inefficient time-saving idea.
  • RebelScumRebelScum Posts: 16,008
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    I don't believe a person would struggle with talking to a room of noisy people if they were reserved, only if they were shy. Being reserved is not actually the same as being shy, even though vast amounts of people seem to believe it is.

    I know the difference between being being reserved and being shy. Reserved people tend to be mostly analytical; meaning they are more thoughtful, take their time to consider things, take a bit longer to reach decisions, and are less likely to come forward and speak out with their ideas first (this is not based on opinions by the way).
    Anyway how many jobs would require that skill? Not too many. That would be a very specific skill, for chairing a meeting or similar.

    I am talking about non-managerial posts that require just normal communication, and yet still cause employers to discriminate against the introverts.

    Plenty, any busy workplace that is team based and customer centric or requires quick decision making for example. I'd say there's plenty of those.
  • duffsdadduffsdad Posts: 11,143
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    pickwick wrote: »
    I had a group interview once, with six or seven people I'd never met, where there were people measuring the exact lengths of time we stayed silent during the discussion and marking us down if they were too long. That seemed very much set up to favour extraverts to me. (And no, it's not a job where talking a lot during meetings is important!)

    I've done civil service assessment centers where I've had to do this but it is done because you want a member of your team to contribute. If they are quiet and cant communicate their idea then they really weren't suitable for that position. At the opposite end extroverts were also marked down for talking too much, talking over other people or not including others. You may feel it didn't favour you, but chances are it didn't favour the extroverts either. It's very obvious to an assessor who is bullshitting, bullying or generally taking over. The ideal behaviour in that situation is contribute but dont take over (unless it's a management role and that's what would be required), be seen to listen well (take notes if you can) and include others....perhaps say to the other quiet person in the group "John, what do you think?".
  • Pandora 9Pandora 9 Posts: 2,350
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    The Wizard wrote: »
    My phone isn't my only companion. It's ONE of them. No more than Facebook is for many people.

    However me and my wife are not joined at the hip. On the times when we're not doing stuff together I like to have time by myself. It's just nice sometimes to sit in a pub up the end of the bar listening to the music having a read of the paper or looking through DS and not feeling like I have to be sociable. Sometimes it's nice to people watch and just observe. I will sometimes join in on a conversation or chat to the landlord if I feel like it but it's just nice sometimes to not have to think about someone else and if I don't feel like talking then I don't have to. I can get up when I want and go to another pub if I want without having to think about what someone else wants to do. I also like going for walks by myself and just sitting in the park by myself being all quiet and listening to the birds or sometimes I'll take my sketchbook or jot down some poetry. You can't do that if someone is nattering at you all the time or if someone wants your constant attention.

    Is no different than people who sit on a bus listening to their music or people who go into a pub and read the newspaper. Some people thrive on peace and quiet and being able to just sit and contemplate. I'm one of those people.

    I do understand that couples spend times apart but you do seem to be always in the pub. Do you spend family times together with your son and wife?
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