Channel 5 HD judder on Sky Q?

omnidirectional · 09/11/16 - 10:01

Since getting Sky Q I've had constant judder on Channel 5 HD. Every other channel seems fine. I'm using a Sony TV (but not 4K). Is anyone else affected by this?

It looks like watching Sky Sports through a Now TV/Roku box, if you know what I mean.

sodafountain · 09/11/16 - 10:43

Nope, mine has been fine, live and recorded, on a Samsung UHD TV.

powar · 09/11/16 - 17:49

https://sony-eur-eu-en-web--eur.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/133958

Possibly related. Seems there has been a lot of issues with Sky Q and Sony TVs.

omnidirectional · 10/11/16 - 09:21

Thanks, I've updated to the latest firmware which is meant to address some of the judder issues but it hasn't improved the problem with Channel 5. It's mainly noticeable on things like news and documentaries. The films/dramas already have the 'filmic' style.

omnidirectional · 04/02/17 - 14:05

Just bumping this to see if anyone has any ideas or a solution for this problem. Channel 5 HD still judders awfully via SkyQ on my Sony Bravia, the DTT version is fine so I have to switch over to watch something on C5. No other HD channel seems to be affected.

I'm using 1080p, but 1080i looks even worse.

mackembloke72 · 04/02/17 - 18:45

mine judders terrible with my philips 43inch ambilight big brother is basically unwatchable when its live..

not that its a problem for me ;-);-);-);-);-)

oh and yes im on sky q as well

ktla5 · 05/02/17 - 08:31

mackembloke72 wrote: »

mine judders terrible with my philips 43inch ambilight big brother is basically unwatchable when its live..

not that its a problem for me ;-);-);-);-);-)

oh and yes im on sky q as well

Have a feeling I have the same issue with my new 49" LG tv too !

omnidirectional · 05/02/17 - 10:15

Interesting, I wonder if there is something in the C5 HD broadcast stream that causes a problem on certain TVs? Although I never had any problem with a Sky+HD box (or DTT), only Sky Q.

derek500 · 05/02/17 - 11:29

Are the HD downloads from catch up the same?

omnidirectional · 05/02/17 - 18:26

I've just downloaded last night's Football League highlights to double check, and HD downloads aren't affected.

Perhaps it's time for some emails to Sony, Sky and Channel 5 to see if they can find the cause but I expect they'll just blame each other.

popeye13 · 05/02/17 - 23:20

Any issues with BBC?
Wondering if its a scantype issue as i believe C5HD uses MBAFF like BBC HD channels do.
Since the software upgrade, have you also tried 1080i?

Marti S · 06/02/17 - 10:57

popeye13 wrote: »

Any issues with BBC?
Wondering if its a scantype issue as i believe C5HD uses MBAFF like BBC HD channels do.
Since the software upgrade, have you also tried 1080i?

I just recorded a small sample to analyse with mediainfo and it says it's interlaced and not MBAFF, cant see anything out of the ordinary.

IS BBC HD true MBAFF? True MBAFF has mixed interlaced and progressive blocks inside each frame rather than switching between interlaced and progressive, or at least that's what I read.

omnidirectional · 06/02/17 - 11:02

popeye13 wrote: »

Any issues with BBC?
Wondering if its a scantype issue as i believe C5HD uses MBAFF like BBC HD channels do.
Since the software upgrade, have you also tried 1080i?

All BBC channels seem OK. I've tried 1080i but that makes the judder on C5 even worse. 576p is the only mode that isn't affected.

Dave-H · 06/02/17 - 12:42

What does the judder actually look like?
If it appears that everything that moves is double imaging it sounds like the field dominance is reversed.

omnidirectional · 06/02/17 - 13:44

It's hard to describe but it's as if several frames per second are being skipped. Everything looks like it has a 'filmic' effect rather than smooth video.

I've also tried disabling all the Sony features like Motionflow and Film Mode which can mess with the frame rate, but it makes no difference.

Dave-H · 06/02/17 - 16:13

It does sound like a de-interlacing problem.
I assume you don't have another TV you could try it on, to see if the box is actually putting out an incorrect signal, or whether it's something that just your Sony TV doesn't like for some reason.

popeye13 · 06/02/17 - 23:33

Marti S wrote: »

I just recorded a small sample to analyse with mediainfo and it says it's interlaced and not MBAFF, cant see anything out of the ordinary.

IS BBC HD true MBAFF? True MBAFF has mixed interlaced and progressive blocks inside each frame rather than switching between interlaced and progressive, or at least that's what I read.

AFAIK, BBC HD channels are, as you have put it, 'True MBAFF'
They've been using this for a while and a few other broadcasters are now using it too.

omnidirectional · 07/02/17 - 13:05

Dave-H wrote: »

It does sound like a de-interlacing problem.
I assume you don't have another TV you could try it on, to see if the box is actually putting out an incorrect signal, or whether it's something that just your Sony TV doesn't like for some reason.

I have another Sony TV (an older non-smart model) connected to a Sky Q mini upstairs, and that works perfectly on C5 HD.

The main TV is one of the Sony Bravia Android models from 2015, it would be helpful to know if anyone else with this kind of TV and Sky Q has any problem with C5 HD during things like news/documentaries/football (but not films or US drama).

grahamlthompson · 07/02/17 - 13:55

Marti S wrote: »

I just recorded a small sample to analyse with mediainfo and it says it's interlaced and not MBAFF, cant see anything out of the ordinary.

IS BBC HD true MBAFF? True MBAFF has mixed interlaced and progressive blocks inside each frame rather than switching between interlaced and progressive, or at least that's what I read.

Only on Freeview, all HD satellite sources are 1080i. Freeview-HD kit was designed from the beginning to allow mixed 1080i and 1080p25 gops within the same video stream.

Dave-H · 07/02/17 - 14:56

omnidirectional wrote: »

I have another Sony TV (an older non-smart model) connected to a Sky Q mini upstairs, and that works perfectly on C5 HD.
The main TV is one of the Sony Bravia Android models from 2015, it would be helpful to know if anyone else with this kind of TV and Sky Q has any problem with C5 HD during things like news/documentaries/football (but not films or US drama).

That proves it's a de-interlacing problem, as the former programmes are shot with interlaced video, and the latter are progressive "film" shot programmes.
The TV is presenting the video shot programmes as if they were film, causing the effect.
As the main SkyQ box and the mini are different hardware feeding their respective TVs, a better test now would be to move the mini to where the TV showing the problem is, and try feeding the TV from the mini. The best thing would be to leave the main box connected, and connect the mini to another HDMI input. You can then directly switch between them and see if the problem is there on both feeds or not.
If it is, it surely has to be something wrong with the processing in the TV, although why it should only affect one channel is the real mystery!

omnidirectional · 07/02/17 - 15:41

I mentioned those kind of shows because they already have the 'filmic' style so you can't judge if there's a problem just from those programmes.

I'll see if I can check the mini box on the main TV at some point in the next few days.

Marti S · 07/02/17 - 18:10

omnidirectional wrote: »

I mentioned those kind of shows because they already have the 'filmic' style so you can't judge if there's a problem just from those programmes.

I'll see if I can check the mini box on the main TV at some point in the next few days.

Does it have the Film mode? on my sony bravia, different model to yours, Auto 1 seems to be the best setting for a smooth picture

popeye13 · 07/02/17 - 22:54

grahamlthompson wrote: »

Only on Freeview, all HD satellite sources are 1080i. Freeview-HD kit was designed from the beginning to allow mixed 1080i and 1080p25 gops within the same video stream.

BBC HD channels are also MBAFF on DSAT, as i explained earlier

omnidirectional · 08/02/17 - 09:24

Marti S wrote: »

Does it have the Film mode? on my sony bravia, different model to yours, Auto 1 seems to be the best setting for a smooth picture

Yes, I have a choice of Off/Low/Med/High, High reduces the judder on C5 but also makes films/drama look like smooth video (the so called 'soap opera effect') so it's not ideal.

grahamlthompson · 08/02/17 - 09:37

popeye13 wrote: »

BBC HD channels are also MBAFF on DSAT, as i explained earlier

That may be true but there is no 1080p content. If there was Sky-HD and most other satellite recievers will not work.

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grahamlthompson · 08/02/17 - 10:24

This may be of interest

http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/term.cfm/macroblock-adaptive_frame-field_coding

Note

Being a relatively new technology it's also not supported well among AVC playback software. Unlike many of AVC's advance features, though, MBAFF doesn't affect decoder speed.

There is no judder on any of the HD channels on my 2008 Foxsat-HDR

Hey there!

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Channel 5 HD judder on Sky Q?

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