12's Christmas in New York
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"New York ,New York it's a hell of a town, the bronx is up and the battery's down..."
Anyone wondering why the christmas special is located in the one city in the world the Tardis aka "sexy" and therefore the Doctor can't go ?.
Rory and Amy died there aged to death by the weeping angels. Is that even going to be mentioned or remembered ?.:(:cry:
Maybe after his adventure with Nardol and the Ghost he can visit the cemetery.
Leave a ponsetia or holly wreath on the double grave.
"Merry Christmas Mr and Mrs Pond, take care of River for me".:(:cry:
Anyone wondering why the christmas special is located in the one city in the world the Tardis aka "sexy" and therefore the Doctor can't go ?.
Rory and Amy died there aged to death by the weeping angels. Is that even going to be mentioned or remembered ?.:(:cry:
Maybe after his adventure with Nardol and the Ghost he can visit the cemetery.
Leave a ponsetia or holly wreath on the double grave.
"Merry Christmas Mr and Mrs Pond, take care of River for me".:(:cry:
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The TARDIS was still in New York at the end of Angels take Manhattan without the Universe ending so obviously the Doctor and TARDIS can go to New York.
Just not to the time period where Amy and Rory were alive there.
Most time travel flicks depend on this kind illogic. e.g. Hill Valley before and after "old" Biff's visit to 1955 in the DeLorean.
Assuming it's set into the future a little or even the present, Amy and Rory are already dead. The problem is limited in 4 dimensions - it was restricted to the New York area and to a certain period of time (probably Amy and Rory's lifespan).
It would be satisfying if they and the problem with NY get a mention, however brief.
Either you understand it as he can never go to new york again at any time, in which case the Christmas episode being set in new york wouldn't make sense.
or
You understand it, as I have always thought, that he only couldn't go back to the particular time period in New York, which wouldn't affect future stories being set in New York, but then you have the question why couldn't he have just gone back to a safe period, say a year before, and wait for Amy and Rory to arrive.
Actually, now that I'm thinking of it, whichever above scenario it is, either way he could have gone to New York's nearest town, left the TARDIS there, picked up Amy and Rory when they arrived and taken them back to the TARDIS.
All in all, that whole Amy and Rory ending was a rushed, not thought out idea.
Its incredibly stupid how easily the problem can be solved, in fact its not even a problem its a inconvenience... oh no we have to do a less than a days travel and then everything can be back as it were before the whole story... but instead for some reason they keep themselves in New York, why? or The Doctor doesn't park the Tardis anywhere else and then travel to them because?
I guess Amy and Rory stay in New York for the same reason they don't care all that much that they lost their daughter and never got to raise her, they suffer from a bad writing illness.... guess they should of gone and seen a Doctor, oh wait..
Animated deleted scene by Chris Chibnall explaining more about Rory and Amy's situation and it's aftermath.
Very poignant even for basic animation
Perhaps it was because he knew that he didn't visit because he'd read the Afterward in the book Amy wrote and seen their graves. If he did visit he'd be creating a paradox.
Or he just needed an excuse because he wanted to respect their wishes and let them live out their lives.
The notion that the Doctor see's a journal or their graves or whatever and so that sets in stone he has to leave them be is such a load of cobblers, how can time travel work that way, it makes no sense, its just a badly written excuse for the Doctor to leave them be when there's no real reason for him too, those graves shouldn't exist as its easy for the Doctor to pick up Amy and Rory from that time, they can just get on a plane and leave the city, the Doctor meets up with them, job done...
Plus Moffats version is always going on about re-writing time, well re-write the graves.. not only does the whole thing no make sense in a general DW way, it doesn't even make sense in Moffats own gobblygoop rules of how things work.. I
It just comes down to lack of consequences, that is the the Moffat era summed up. He did the same with Clara and everyone else, too scared to give them a bad ending so contrives a situation where they live happily ever after.
Also what is stopping The Doctor if he can't travel to New York, to land the TARDIS just outside the city walk in, take them back to the TARDIS. Problem solved. You could say he saw the graves they must die there, then why didn't the Doctor die at Trenzalore? And a simple grave could easily be placed there with no one dead to ensure no paradox.
It was a very messy goodbye for me.
Not disagreeing with your main points, but that animated extra clip isn't an attempt to explain anything at all. It's just a poignant scene that gives Rory's dad some closure. It would have been better had it been shot and part of the episode.
Ah sorry my bad, I thought it was some extra minisode trying to explain things away, I never watched the clip so didn't know what it was about...
Exactly. That is my big gripe with Moffats era, it has some brilliant ideas in it, but nothing comes together and lacks consequences, there for killing off any dramatic weight... and also wasting the good ideas that can be found in the mess.
The episode where the moon is an egg and the magic trees of no consequences episode are prime examples of the era's woeful lack of consequences, and making the audience not buy into the DW world because why would we when nothing has weight or makes sense, even in the DW world... so its not surprising that some of the audience would start turning away from DW as they are put off by this, people might not be able to recognise consciously that is a factor that's putting them off but their sub-conscious is picking up on it...
Do yourself a favour and watch it.
I am a 53 year old fat bloke - and needed a tissue by the end
http://screenrant.com/doctor-who-season-7-deleted-scene-ps-amy-rory-goodbye/
Exactly....
But the US audience likes it because it's a British show set in this country! I hardly think the American viewers are pining for a New York episode.
Tegan and Peri
I think the FM's use of the word "constant" is a bit of an exaggeration; off the top of my head I've come up with 'Dalek', 'Daleks in Manhattan'/'Evolution of the Daleks', 'The Impossible Astronaut'/'Day of the Moon', 'A Town Called Mercy', 'Angels Take Manhattan' and the forthcoming Special.
Of course there was 'The Gunfighters' and the McGann Movie back in the day. And brief bits of 'The Chase' and 'Dalek Masterplan'. Hardly overkill.
The whole thing was rubbish. Just like him not being able to find and save baby Melody Pond.
another example of fan's complaining for the sake of complaining if you ask me. Not too long ago it was a bit of a joke that for a guy who can travel in all of time and space the Doctor seem's overly stuck keen on Cardiff and London. So the show attempts to broaden its horizons and then gets slagged off for 'selling out' to over-seas viewers. It's ludicrous. Its just widening the scope of the show. The scenes in Utah, New York and Lanzarote for example have looked fantastic. But no, let's move back to filming everything in the an abandoned quarry in the Valleys somewhere eh?
and as PM pointed out! Americans dont want to see the Statue of Liberty! It's not for them. They don't sit there applauding like wind up chimps every time a familiar landmark comes on the screen anymore than we would if Big Ben showed up.
That said on a publicity level its good for the show to move about a bit and grabs peoples interest. How it can be painted as some kind of cynical move by the production team is baffling but it seems there isnt anything to do with this show that cant be skewed to be negative these days.