I'm only going from my personal experience. Lots of eastern Europeans joined where I used to work, they were happy to work a few extra hours unpaid each day and the occasional weekend. I refused to do so, after being signed off for exhaustion / stress, and was therefore seen as an under performer and sacked.
I think the euro experiment has failed as it is allowing free movement between countries with very different living standards.
Of course management and the upper class love these new migrants as they get more work done for less and allows for wages to be suppressed for another decade.
Germany and France knew that the Polish people would decimate their workforce overnight that's why they used the 7 year block. Blair didn't use this, encouraged them over and the elites have benefited.
There are some eastern europeans that just send over the husband, they live in a shoddy cheap place and work at saving money. A guy at my old work was saying in just four years of working in the UK he can save up enough to buy a house outright back home.
If you look at the pattern of immigration into the UK over the past 2 decades, in general it goes up when the British economy is growing and slows when the economy is in decline. As our economy is currently growing it will attract more EU migrants and this was borne out in recent figures which showed a significant increase in people coming here from Spain and France. This is why I've always believed the transitional restrictions on Eastern European immigration really aren't the most significant factor in the numbers coming here. Why would a Bulgarian or Romanian go to Spain where the economy is not doing that well, when they can come here and have a better chance of getting a job? Even after 7 years of restrictions, people will still come here from abroad lured by the prospect of getting a job that pays significantly more than anything they can get in their own country. However, as long as they are working they are further building our economy so it's not necessarily a bad thing.
I think you underestimate how highly the public view Nelson Mandela. A recent YouGov poll showed that he was the most respected political figure of the 20th Century, joint top with Churchill and some way ahead of Margaret Thatcher. I think the extensive coverage of Mandela's death and legacy is in keeping with the public's mood and affection for the man, although perhaps not in keeping with that of many on this thread.
No, I'm not underestimating public respect for Mandela or begrudging him his place in history. The point I was making is that it's that very respect that limits discussion. Once everybody has agreed that he was a good bloke, there's little left to say, whereas the controversy stirred up by the mere mention of Thatcher's name leads to debate and argument. There were far more posts (many of them genuinely spiteful) about Thatcher's death. They kept the politics thread ticking over for several days.
Public interest isn't governed by logic. Such was the public obsession with the Princess of Wales' death that the passing of Mother Teresa in the same week didn't receive anything like the attention it would have received on a 'normal' news day.
No, I'm not underestimating public respect for Mandela or begrudging him his place in history. The point I was making is that it's that very respect that limits discussion. Once everybody has agreed that he was a good However, bloke, there's little left to say, whereas the controversy stirred up by the mere mention of Thatcher's name leads to debate and argument. There were far more posts (many of them genuinely spiteful) about Thatcher's death. They kept the politics thread ticking over for several days.
Public interest isn't governed by logic. Such was the public obsession with the Princess of Wales' death that the passing of Mother Teresa in the same week didn't receive anything like the attention it would have received on a 'normal' news day.
You make an interesting point but even if people agree that doesn't necessarily prevent discussion. Discussions on how Mandela personally affected callers lives have been fascinating as have those on what was his impact on the world and history.
Personally, I felt the coverage of Diana's death on LBC went on to long but it was what people wanted to talk about for 2 weeks solidly so I can understand why LBC felt it was necessary to respond to that demand. However, there is a natural point when you just feel there isn't much more to be said on a topic and perhaps we are approaching it now regarding Nelson Mandela.
No, I'm not underestimating public respect for Mandela or begrudging him his place in history. The point I was making is that it's that very respect that limits discussion. Once everybody has agreed that he was a good bloke, there's little left to say, whereas the controversy stirred up by the mere mention of Thatcher's name leads to debate and argument. There were far more posts (many of them genuinely spiteful) about Thatcher's death. They kept the politics thread ticking over for several days.
But surely there is a large dollop of irony here, because that very debate was heavily criticised on this thread, with accusations of having no respect for the dead, etc. Can't win, eh?
:kitty: No idea what a cat smiley is for, but I had to use it when I saw it!
But surely there is a large dollop of irony here, because that very debate was heavily criticised on this thread, with accusations of having no respect for the dead, etc. Can't win, eh?
:kitty: No idea what a cat smiley is for, but I had to use it when I saw it!
I'm merely saying that the debate was more intense and, consequently, interesting. I haven't checked back but I don't think I had much to say at the time, either about Thatcher's death or the comments about it.
I'm merely saying that the debate was more intense and, consequently, interesting. I haven't checked back but I don't think I had much to say at the time, either about Thatcher's death or the comments about it.
Indeed, and I'm merely pointing out the irony in this thread's reactions.
I didn't comment much on Thatcher's death, either (here).
I just can't escape the fact that, within literally 10 mins of his death being announced, there were groans on this thread about the coverage. Indeed, the groans outnumber the RIP's. I do think that's really quite disappointing. For possibly the first time ever, I find myself in agreement with Mr Bear on all this.
I'm only going from my personal experience. Lots of eastern Europeans joined where I used to work, they were happy to work a few extra hours unpaid each day and the occasional weekend. I refused to do so, after being signed off for exhaustion / stress, and was therefore seen as an under performer and sacked.
I think the euro experiment has failed as it is allowing free movement between countries with very different living standards. Of course management and the upper class love these new migrants as they get more work done for less and allows for wages to be suppressed for another decade. Germany and France knew that the Polish people would decimate their workforce overnight that's why they used the 7 year block. Blair didn't use this, encouraged them over and the elites have benefited.
There are some eastern europeans that just send over the husband, they live in a shoddy cheap place and work at saving money. A guy at my old work was saying in just four years of working in the UK he can save up enough to buy a house outright back home.
You have hit the nail on the head i was all for Europe until about 4 years ago when the result ofr letting people have access to work in countries with very different living standars became apparent.>:(
Nu Labour were happy to let it happen as Mandelson and Blair are corporate animals and saw no harm in offending Labours core support base,messers Straw,Blunkett and Prescott should not have let them,and in retorspect they have now said it was a mistake,well at least Blunkett and Straw have i will never vote Labour again.>:(>:(
If you look at the pattern of immigration into the UK over the past 2 decades, in general it goes up when the British economy is growing and slows when the economy is in decline. As our economy is currently growing it will attract more EU migrants and this was borne out in recent figures which showed a significant increase in people coming here from Spain and France. This is why I've always believed the transitional restrictions on Eastern European immigration really aren't the most significant factor in the numbers coming here. Why would a Bulgarian or Romanian go to Spain where the economy is not doing that well, when they can come here and have a better chance of getting a job? Even after 7 years of restrictions, people will still come here from abroad lured by the prospect of getting a job that pays significantly more than anything they can get in their own country. However, as long as they are working they are further building our economy so it's not necessarily a bad thing.
Don't think that comparison is particularity good as Spanish living standards are much lower than UK ones, so even without the eastern countries joining the euro it would still be doomed.
The UK is the number 1 place for young Spanish people to emigrate to. Although I don't think they are as damaging as with the increase in living costs they are not able to save enough money to buy a home outright back in Spain in a couple of years working in the UK.
I'm pretty sure Spain during their building boom allowed Romanians and Bulgarians to immigrate there too.
The Euro zone would have only worked if it was between countries of very similar living standards, like if it was just Germany, Austria and Luxembourg.
Timely reminder from Ken about Boris' article, claiming Nelson Mandela had imposed a black tyranny on South Africa. I do hope people see through our mayor sooner rather than later.
Timely reminder from Ken about Boris' article, claiming Nelson Mandela had imposed a black tyranny on South Africa. I do hope people see through our mayor sooner rather than later.
Yes i hope he also reminds us about Mr Speaker Bercow also in his earlier conservative (Right Wing) incarnation helped produce T shrits with the slogan "Hang Mandela" On he has to kmy knowledge never aplogoised for it.
When you post with these long/obscure words it doesn't make you look clever. The opposite actually. I've noticed you do it a lot, as if to prove a level of intelligence? It doesn't work. Just so you know.
I feel bereft by your stinging admonition my sturdy, ursine fellow LOL. Actually, I don't see what "intelligence" has to do with it. All depends what your definition of "intelligence" is. I know people who struggle to put pen to paper due to a lack of educational opportunity, but I would put them far above me in the intelligence stakes. My post was merely intended as light-hearted variety. No sense of humour some people.
Perhaps we could have some "Rosen-style" elections to lighten the mood. We could have the least intelligent poster poll which I could win, and you could be voted the forum's poster intelligence assessor and post-writing style critic.
I feel bereft by your stinging admonition my sturdy, ursine fellow LOL. Actually, I don't see what "intelligence" has to do with it. All depends what your definition of "intelligence" is. I know people who struggle to put pen to paper due to a lack of educational opportunity, but I would put them far above me in the intelligence stakes. My post was merely intended as light-hearted variety. No sense of humour some people.
Perhaps we could have some "Rosen-style" elections to lighten the mood. We could have the least intelligent poster poll which I could win, and you could be voted the forum's poster intelligence assessor and post-writing style critic.
You have hit the nail on the head i was all for Europe until about 4 years ago when the result ofr letting people have access to work in countries with very different living standars became apparent.>:(
Nu Labour were happy to let it happen as Mandelson and Blair are corporate animals and saw no harm in offending Labours core support base,messers Straw,Blunkett and Prescott should not have let them,and in retorspect they have now said it was a mistake,well at least Blunkett and Straw have i will never vote Labour again.>:(>:(
So who do you blame for the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of Bulgarians and Romanians that are already here and those that are expected to come here from January?
So who do you blame for the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of Bulgarians and Romanians that are already here and those that are expected to come here from January?
The EU expansion of those countries and the allowance of them to come here by virtue of that,untimately it is all down to the politicians that willing signed the single european act (Mrs Thatcher)for the UK that paved the way for expabsion of the pooer nations to join a club,that is not very balanced at all.
Blair had the chance as did France and Germany(they took it) to restrict immigration into the uk we failed to take it and there has been a wage race to the bottom ever since.
Are there hundreds of thousands of romanians and bugarians here now? In sheffield that must be true as i see their residents are complaining about the romanians already.!
You have hit the nail on the head i was all for Europe until about 4 years ago when the result ofr letting people have access to work in countries with very different living standars became apparent.>:(
Nu Labour were happy to let it happen as Mandelson and Blair are corporate animals and saw no harm in offending Labours core support base,messers Straw,Blunkett and Prescott should not have let them,and in retorspect they have now said it was a mistake,well at least Blunkett and Straw have i will never vote Labour again.>:(>:(
Thanks, yes we were miss sold the EWW dream, it was sold as an exclusive club. Now it just looks like anyone can join. The people at the bottom are the main losers.
I blame the politicians not the immigrants, if I could get a 500% pay increase without any immigration issues I would be off tomorrow.
Blair had the chance as did France and Germany(they took it) to restrict immigration into the uk we failed to take it and there has been a wage race to the bottom ever since.
Exactly, the UK was the only wealthy country that did not use the allowed restriction on new joiners. This move by blair is one of the most damaging things done to the UK in decades. Even worse than brown crashing the gold market and selling the countries gold.
Indeed, and I'm merely pointing out the irony in this thread's reactions.
I didn't comment much on Thatcher's death, either (here).
I just can't escape the fact that, within literally 10 mins of his death being announced, there were groans on this thread about the coverage. Indeed, the groans outnumber the RIP's. I do think that's really quite disappointing. For possibly the first time ever, I find myself in agreement with Mr Bear on all this.
Is it the disappointed one ?;-)If so - Surprised such a strong advocate of Mandela is also into thin skinned censorship
The EU expansion of those countries and the allowance of them to come here by virtue of that,untimately it is all down to the politicians that willing signed the single european act (Mrs Thatcher)for the UK that paved the way for expabsion of the pooer nations to join a club,that is not very balanced at all.
Blair had the chance as did France and Germany(they took it) to restrict immigration into the uk we failed to take it and there has been a wage race to the bottom ever since.
Are there hundreds of thousands of romanians and bugarians here now? In sheffield that must be true as i see their residents are complaining about the romanians already.!
According to the Office of National Statistics there are 140,000 Bulgarians and Romanians already living in the UK. So although many people want to blame (if that's the right word to use) Brown and Blair for not putting in place restrictions on migration from Eastern Europe in 2004, the truth is it wouldn't have stopped many Poles and other EU nationals coming here because Heath, Thatcher and Major had already signed agreements which gave them the right to live in the UK.
Perhaps the people who feel that the death of Nelson Mandela is taking up too much airtime would like to tell us what they would rather be hearing?
People mopping their doorsteps and wringing out their carpets, or Nigella's latest drug confessions for example?
How about a return to normal programming a little sooner perhaps. Most of the other channels were doing Mandela coverage - I could have re-tuned to any number of them for continued coverage if I'd wanted to. As it happens I kept the radio and tv switched off where and when I could after the news intially broke.
I always do. I understand the rolling news format is a competitive market and that coverage is always very heavy during such incidents, but it's not for me.
The next thing will be the blanket coverage of christmas everywhere. I am no scrooge, and I am lucky enough to still have plenty of family, but I happen to prefer quiet christmas's now the children have grown up. However due to in my opinion, an over commercialisation of the festive period, I find it quite hard to avoid the 'in your faceness' of it all.
Steve Allen's a prize plonker in this respect. Rambling on about the christmas spirit six months in advance, and a few years ago all that repeated story telling about his trips to Lapland in the snow.
I'm sure LBC will be siezing the initiative with christmas again soon this year, with not a drop of anything remotely unrelated and nothing different to any other station so it will once again be clicky off time for me.
Comments
If you look at the pattern of immigration into the UK over the past 2 decades, in general it goes up when the British economy is growing and slows when the economy is in decline. As our economy is currently growing it will attract more EU migrants and this was borne out in recent figures which showed a significant increase in people coming here from Spain and France. This is why I've always believed the transitional restrictions on Eastern European immigration really aren't the most significant factor in the numbers coming here. Why would a Bulgarian or Romanian go to Spain where the economy is not doing that well, when they can come here and have a better chance of getting a job? Even after 7 years of restrictions, people will still come here from abroad lured by the prospect of getting a job that pays significantly more than anything they can get in their own country. However, as long as they are working they are further building our economy so it's not necessarily a bad thing.
No, I'm not underestimating public respect for Mandela or begrudging him his place in history. The point I was making is that it's that very respect that limits discussion. Once everybody has agreed that he was a good bloke, there's little left to say, whereas the controversy stirred up by the mere mention of Thatcher's name leads to debate and argument. There were far more posts (many of them genuinely spiteful) about Thatcher's death. They kept the politics thread ticking over for several days.
Public interest isn't governed by logic. Such was the public obsession with the Princess of Wales' death that the passing of Mother Teresa in the same week didn't receive anything like the attention it would have received on a 'normal' news day.
You make an interesting point but even if people agree that doesn't necessarily prevent discussion. Discussions on how Mandela personally affected callers lives have been fascinating as have those on what was his impact on the world and history.
Personally, I felt the coverage of Diana's death on LBC went on to long but it was what people wanted to talk about for 2 weeks solidly so I can understand why LBC felt it was necessary to respond to that demand. However, there is a natural point when you just feel there isn't much more to be said on a topic and perhaps we are approaching it now regarding Nelson Mandela.
But surely there is a large dollop of irony here, because that very debate was heavily criticised on this thread, with accusations of having no respect for the dead, etc. Can't win, eh?
:kitty: No idea what a cat smiley is for, but I had to use it when I saw it!
I'm merely saying that the debate was more intense and, consequently, interesting. I haven't checked back but I don't think I had much to say at the time, either about Thatcher's death or the comments about it.
Indeed, and I'm merely pointing out the irony in this thread's reactions.
I didn't comment much on Thatcher's death, either (here).
I just can't escape the fact that, within literally 10 mins of his death being announced, there were groans on this thread about the coverage. Indeed, the groans outnumber the RIP's. I do think that's really quite disappointing. For possibly the first time ever, I find myself in agreement with Mr Bear on all this.
You have hit the nail on the head i was all for Europe until about 4 years ago when the result ofr letting people have access to work in countries with very different living standars became apparent.>:(
Nu Labour were happy to let it happen as Mandelson and Blair are corporate animals and saw no harm in offending Labours core support base,messers Straw,Blunkett and Prescott should not have let them,and in retorspect they have now said it was a mistake,well at least Blunkett and Straw have i will never vote Labour again.>:(>:(
Don't think that comparison is particularity good as Spanish living standards are much lower than UK ones, so even without the eastern countries joining the euro it would still be doomed.
The UK is the number 1 place for young Spanish people to emigrate to. Although I don't think they are as damaging as with the increase in living costs they are not able to save enough money to buy a home outright back in Spain in a couple of years working in the UK.
I'm pretty sure Spain during their building boom allowed Romanians and Bulgarians to immigrate there too.
The Euro zone would have only worked if it was between countries of very similar living standards, like if it was just Germany, Austria and Luxembourg.
Yes i hope he also reminds us about Mr Speaker Bercow also in his earlier conservative (Right Wing) incarnation helped produce T shrits with the slogan "Hang Mandela" On he has to kmy knowledge never aplogoised for it.
I feel bereft by your stinging admonition my sturdy, ursine fellow LOL. Actually, I don't see what "intelligence" has to do with it. All depends what your definition of "intelligence" is. I know people who struggle to put pen to paper due to a lack of educational opportunity, but I would put them far above me in the intelligence stakes. My post was merely intended as light-hearted variety. No sense of humour some people.
Perhaps we could have some "Rosen-style" elections to lighten the mood. We could have the least intelligent poster poll which I could win, and you could be voted the forum's poster intelligence assessor and post-writing style critic.
Round 1 to BurleyBearR.
Better luck next time, thewilson.
So who do you blame for the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of Bulgarians and Romanians that are already here and those that are expected to come here from January?
The EU expansion of those countries and the allowance of them to come here by virtue of that,untimately it is all down to the politicians that willing signed the single european act (Mrs Thatcher)for the UK that paved the way for expabsion of the pooer nations to join a club,that is not very balanced at all.
Blair had the chance as did France and Germany(they took it) to restrict immigration into the uk we failed to take it and there has been a wage race to the bottom ever since.
Are there hundreds of thousands of romanians and bugarians here now? In sheffield that must be true as i see their residents are complaining about the romanians already.!
Thanks, yes we were miss sold the EWW dream, it was sold as an exclusive club. Now it just looks like anyone can join. The people at the bottom are the main losers.
I blame the politicians not the immigrants, if I could get a 500% pay increase without any immigration issues I would be off tomorrow.
Exactly, the UK was the only wealthy country that did not use the allowed restriction on new joiners. This move by blair is one of the most damaging things done to the UK in decades. Even worse than brown crashing the gold market and selling the countries gold.
Well unsaid:;-)
Is it the disappointed one ?;-)If so - Surprised such a strong advocate of Mandela is also into thin skinned censorship
According to the Office of National Statistics there are 140,000 Bulgarians and Romanians already living in the UK. So although many people want to blame (if that's the right word to use) Brown and Blair for not putting in place restrictions on migration from Eastern Europe in 2004, the truth is it wouldn't have stopped many Poles and other EU nationals coming here because Heath, Thatcher and Major had already signed agreements which gave them the right to live in the UK.
There are a few other changes at the station, but I would not want to plug them here ;-)
Cue even more sly digs from Steve about how reality show contestants shouldn't become presenters. :kitty: (I'm using kitty as 'miaow!)
How about a return to normal programming a little sooner perhaps. Most of the other channels were doing Mandela coverage - I could have re-tuned to any number of them for continued coverage if I'd wanted to. As it happens I kept the radio and tv switched off where and when I could after the news intially broke.
I always do. I understand the rolling news format is a competitive market and that coverage is always very heavy during such incidents, but it's not for me.
The next thing will be the blanket coverage of christmas everywhere. I am no scrooge, and I am lucky enough to still have plenty of family, but I happen to prefer quiet christmas's now the children have grown up. However due to in my opinion, an over commercialisation of the festive period, I find it quite hard to avoid the 'in your faceness' of it all.
Steve Allen's a prize plonker in this respect. Rambling on about the christmas spirit six months in advance, and a few years ago all that repeated story telling about his trips to Lapland in the snow.
I'm sure LBC will be siezing the initiative with christmas again soon this year, with not a drop of anything remotely unrelated and nothing different to any other station so it will once again be clicky off time for me.