£5.93 per hour really is pitiful, I am a factory worker, I take home a £10-£11K per year and have a combined family income of less than £15K for a family of 2 adults and 3 children. Ok my job is not skilled but then neither is a garbage collector in NYC, Yes I watched this documentary on CNBC a couple of weeks ago, a refuse collector starts on $80K per annum.
l would agree, dave81uk. The Tory-dominated government actually raised the minimum wage below the rate of inflation when it should have really gone up to £5.98 an hour.
The government is on record that they want to make work pay so they ought, over the next few years, to raise the minimum wage above inflation in incremental steps until it matches the London living wage http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jun/09/boris-johndon-25p-increase-london-living-wage of £7.85 which is more like it (=16,328 p.a. on a 40hr. week). Even London Tory mayor Boris supports that higher figure.
As things stand, the taxpayer is effectively subsidising Dickensian employers via working tax credits. The government should also raise the ceiling at which people start to pay tax to £10,000 which would also help low paid people.
The equally contemptible New Labour scum could easily undertaken these measures in their 13 wasted years in power but they were too busy spending billions on starting wars and then lying about them.
Its low cause of greed - employers and companies aren't happy with just making s profit and everybody from the lowest to the owner/chairman getting a good living - instead profits have got to be increased all the time for shareholders and directors to get their obscene bonuses and dividends.
I have to agree with the OP... minimum wage is just not a livable wage.... Minimum wage is just a way for companies to take advantage of people... low pay, small hours = the employer having to pay less tax at the end of the day. which is probably one of the reasons there is very little (if any in some locations) full time work going right now.
a friend in Australia said 14 year olds working in McDonalds in Aus get that kinda money.
l would agree, dave81uk. The Tory-dominated government actually raised the minimum wage below the rate of inflation when it should have really gone up to £5.98 an hour.
You can blame Labour for that one
Chancellor Alistair Darling made no mention of the rise in his hour-long budget
speech to the Commons but, in a 228-page Treasury document published
afterwards, it was revealed that the adult minimum wage will rise from the
current £5.80 an hour in October.
''This increase strikes a balance between helping low-paid workers and families,
and ensuring that the rise does not damage their employment chances,'' said
the document. Link
Yes thats it exactly the cost of living is high and the minimum wage hasn't kept up.
Since the minimum wage was introduced it has, on average, risen above inflation.
Expect the cost of living to increase in tandem with any increase in the minimum wage. Shops and services have to put their costs up in order to pay the wages.
The government is on record that they want to make work pay so they ought, over the next few years, to raise the minimum wage above inflation in incremental steps until it matches the London living wage http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jun/09/boris-johndon-25p-increase-london-living-wage of £7.85 which is more like it (=16,328 p.a. on a 40hr. week). Even London Tory mayor Boris supports that higher figure.
Why should the minimum wage nationwide be equal to the London living wage? If you were saying any job that takes place within a London postcode should pay the London living wage fine, but nationwide?
In nearly every shop I go in these days, there seems to be a queue a mile long with only one of two people at the desks working like crazy.
I've spoken to various managers who say they are short staffed because they can only afford X amount of people.
Meanwhile, I'm certain there are loads of people out there who would rather be working in a bank or shop, earning less than the minimum wage, than doing nothing all day and claiming dole money.
In nearly every shop I go in these days, there seems to be a queue a mile long with only one of two people at the desks working like crazy.
I've spoken to various managers who say they are short staffed because they can only afford X amount of people.
Yeah, that was the downside of the minimum wage.
No-one's ever got any staff on. That and the rise of outsourcing.
I've been in meetings where decisions have been made to outsource. In one instance, just over 200 jobs would have been kept in the UK were the minimum wage at the time just 5p less per hour!
The issue with all of this is that folk (quite rightly) want to see a minimum wage, but don't want to pay more for the products they buy. And those two *must* go hand-in-hand.
The popularity of shops such as Primark, which barely have any staff on, and run on off-shored "exploited" labour forces, is the inevitable result.
A move towards the so-called 'living wage' can only really happen once consumer attitudes switch and they start paying to support the morals they purport to hold. Else, we'll just see even worse levels of services, even worse quality of goods and even more jobs lost to overseas.
yes, the minimum wage does seem low, but for employers - especially small company employers , there are so many other things that need to be taken into account.
Increases in holiday entitlements,sickness entitlements, rights for casual & part time workers, maternity rights, .
all good & fair but they have to be paid for.
Small businessess usually operate on the tightest of margins.
And with the proposed increase in VAT things are only going to get worse.
In nearly every shop I go in these days, there seems to be a queue a mile long with only one of two people at the desks working like crazy.
I've spoken to various managers who say they are short staffed because they can only afford X amount of people.
Meanwhile, I'm certain there are loads of people out there who would rather be working in a bank or shop, earning less than the minimum wage, than doing nothing all day and claiming dole money.
Compare this to the US
1) Minimum wage and taxes are lower so it cheaper to take on staff. Shops and restaurants always have more staff available than they do here
2) Unemployment benefits are very limited so there's more of an incentive to work.
I'm not saying the US has it right, just that it's a different system.
The minimum wage is far to low. I'm an employer, my lowest paid wage for a cleaner is £10.00 per hour for 40 hours. Time and half after 5pm, double time Saturdays & Sundays. He's also provided with a take home van. This is for cleaning void, relet properties, no rubbish removal is involved, that is paid to another operative.
The minimum wage is far to low. I'm an employer, my lowest paid wage for a cleaner is £10.00 per hour for 40 hours. Time and half after 5pm, double time Saturdays & Sundays. He's also provided with a take home van. This is for cleaning void, relet properties, no rubbish removal is involved, that is paid to another operative.
I will do it for £9ph. No need for time and half or any of that nonsense.
If wages are low, then spending power is greatly diminished. If wages go down, a downward spiral takes effect, because as spending power weakens, so the income to companies and businesses drops, in a vicious circle.
If an employer lowers wages, he/she has no right to complain when sales of product drop when other employers do likewise.
One of the reasons businesses are struggling is because many people cannot afford to buy things. Like I said it is a dangerous vicious circle.
I am low-paid but am lucky to be with a pretty good employer, who actually keeps employees informed about the state of the company, and thanks people for good results and working in difficult circumstances (such as snow).
Sadly, many employers these days don't even reply to job applications, an extremely rude and lazy attitude which speaks volumes, leaving applicants in the dark, waiting for nothing. They can't even be bothered to send an email.
If wages are low, then spending power is greatly diminished. If wages go down, a downward spiral takes effect, because as spending power weakens, so the income to companies and businesses drops, in a vicious circle.
If an employer lowers wages, he/she has no right to complain when sales of product drop when other employers do likewise.
One of the reasons businesses are struggling is because many people cannot afford to buy things. Like I said it is a dangerous vicious circle.
I am low-paid but am lucky to be with a pretty good employer, who actually keeps employees informed about the state of the company, and thanks people for good results and working in difficult circumstances (such as snow).
Sadly, many employers these days don't even reply to job applications, an extremely rude and lazy attitude which speaks volumes, leaving applicants in the dark, waiting for nothing. They can't even be bothered to send an email.
Relugus, the problem is you shouldn't be low paid, you should be paid for a job well done. I'm sorry to burst the bubble, but if your employer is a Ltd. company you can buy their accounts from company house for a £1.You can check the profits & loss statements, if you know how many employees there are & sales, turnover etc. you will see how much you earn for your employer. My company is small and is not Ltd. Therefore I don't pay myself a wage or take dividends, we are a partnership, we pay full tax on profits after turnover, wages, materials, vehicles etc. I would be better off as a limited company, but profits our mine and my husbands and are devided to who does the most work, in our case my husband does. I haven't gone Ltd for the simple reason is my competitors can't buy my accounts.
It doesn't really matter how much the Min wages is as long as there is one in force.
If the min wage went up to £10 per hour, then employers would simply put their prices up to compensate. Others won't be able to afford whatever product / service is being provided, so they would want a pay rise to be able to. Then the people on Min wage would demand a higher rate, and then the roundabout starts all over again.
Compare this to the US
1) Minimum wage and taxes are lower so it cheaper to take on staff. Shops and restaurants always have more staff available than they do here
I used to wonder why, in the 2 major "discounters", we have in the UK, why I have to wait ages to get through the checkout. There are about 6 checkouts, but no matter how busy the stores are, there are only ever two open.
The reason is simple economics:-
If I want fast service, then the store has to employ more people. Then the prices have to go up to pay for the extra staff to the same level as prices in the big 4 supermarkets.
So I have a choice:-
Wait longer at the checkpouts for cheaper goods or pay more to get a speedy service.
20% is the going rate to tip your waiter if you were highly satisfied with the food and service.
In the good restaurants, they probably serve, on average, 50-60 guests per shift at around $60 per head when drinks are factored in.
So, that's $720 extra per shift in bonuses if everyone tips at the top end.
It's no wonder it's a profession over there...and why they fall over themselves to make you happy
Quite right. In most States, the minimum wage for "tipped" staff is lower than for other workers, often as low as $2/hr. However, go into a busy bar and there will be waiting staff everywhere so none of that slow queuing at the bar nonsense that you get here.
It all means you get more staff, better staff and lower running costs for restaurants. No wonder eating out is cheaper, a better experience and more common than it is in the UK. The only thing that doesn't go down well is Brits who refuse to tip.
I go to the US regularly and every time I come back it shocks me how bad service is in this country.
20% is the going rate to tip your waiter if you were highly satisfied with the food and service.
In the good restaurants, they probably serve, on average, 50-60 guests per shift at around $60 per head when drinks are factored in.
So, that's $720 extra per shift in bonuses if everyone tips at the top end.
It's no wonder it's a profession over there...and why they fall over themselves to make you happy
Quite right. In most States, the minimum wage for "tipped" staff is lower than for other workers, often as low as $2/hr. However, go into a busy bar and there will be waiting staff everywhere so none of that slow queuing at the bar nonsense that you get here.
It all means you get more staff, better staff and lower running costs for restaurants. No wonder eating out is cheaper, a better experience and more common than it is in the UK. The only thing that doesn't go down well is Brits who refuse to tip (apparently some restaurants in tourist areas have a "British menu" where prices are 20% higher)
I go to the US regularly and every time I come back it shocks me how bad service is in this country.
I used to wonder why, in the 2 major "discounters", we have in the UK, why I have to wait ages to get through the checkout. There are about 6 checkouts, but no matter how busy the stores are, there are only ever two open.
The reason is simple economics:-
If I want fast service, then the store has to employ more people. Then the prices have to go up to pay for the extra staff to the same level as prices in the big 4 supermarkets.
So I have a choice:-
Wait longer at the checkpouts for cheaper goods or pay more to get a speedy service.
Precisely.
My son's friend is at college, he works part time at Aldi's, he earns far more than he would at Tesco, due to less staff, less wages to pay, but he works damn hard to get the extra wages.
£5.93 per hour really is pitiful, I am a factory worker, I take home a £10-£11K per year and have a combined family income of less than £15K for a family of 2 adults and 3 children. Ok my job is not skilled but then neither is a garbage collector in NYC, Yes I watched this documentary on CNBC a couple of weeks ago, a refuse collector starts on $80K per annum.
The government knows it is a pittance yet they do damn all to raise it to a living wage yet they cap benefits at £500 per week which they obviously think is enough to live on, So I work my 40 hours per week and pay my tax to help give my next door neighbour £500 per week for sitting on there ass, its total madness really. Surly if it was rasied to a living wage at least there is an incentive for those on benefits to go out and work and it would also save a fortune on working tax credits and the likes as it would push many over the threshold.
The government will occasionally come out with totally stupid ideas to help those not so well off like the "Warm Home" scheme a few years back, well the issue there was the vast majority of us on minimum wage don't own homes, so a loft insulation was a rather pointless exercise as its will only benefit the landlords, some money to heat our homes would be more beneficial.
Maybe its just me but I have noticed quite a gap growing between the haves and have nots in this country, certainly in my job you have us out on the factory floor, move into the office the starting wage doubles, there doesn't seem to be any middle ground any more, you either have money and have a comfortable life of your living in poverty.
The minimum wage is counter productive. It creates a norm and locks people in to low pay. Increasing it would result in job losses.
Wages are best left to a free market though I can see why Labour felt a minimum wage necessary, it was linked to their deliberate policy of opening the floodgates to cheap foreign labour.
The NMW is one of the few things I will openly commend Labour/Blair for introducing. And yes it is pitiful. But like everything else when the NMW goes up, so does everything else such as food, bills and the cost of living, which basically negates any positive effect the NMW had.
I'm no better off now, on nearly £8 per hour than I was in 1999 on £3.60 per hour.
For all the people saying that the minimum wage is good enough, or they don't see why we have one - I say: then you try and live on it!
It's easy to be opinionated about this when you don't have to manage on £5.93 ph or 12k a year with no other income or other support.
No-one should have to work to earn a (poor) living for less than £7.50 an hour.
If the government want to be serious about "making work pay" then they need to raise the minimum wage substantially ... but they won't because it's all the usual spin!
The NMW is one of the few things I will openly commend Labour/Blair for introducing. And yes it is pitiful. But like everything else when the NMW goes up, so does everything else such as food, bills and the cost of living, which basically negates any positive effect the NMW had.
I'm no better off now, on nearly £8 per hour than I was in 1999 on £3.60 per hour.
Comments
l would agree, dave81uk. The Tory-dominated government actually raised the minimum wage below the rate of inflation when it should have really gone up to £5.98 an hour.
The government is on record that they want to make work pay so they ought, over the next few years, to raise the minimum wage above inflation in incremental steps until it matches the London living wage http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jun/09/boris-johndon-25p-increase-london-living-wage of £7.85 which is more like it (=16,328 p.a. on a 40hr. week). Even London Tory mayor Boris supports that higher figure.
As things stand, the taxpayer is effectively subsidising Dickensian employers via working tax credits. The government should also raise the ceiling at which people start to pay tax to £10,000 which would also help low paid people.
The equally contemptible New Labour scum could easily undertaken these measures in their 13 wasted years in power but they were too busy spending billions on starting wars and then lying about them.
a friend in Australia said 14 year olds working in McDonalds in Aus get that kinda money.
You can blame Labour for that one
Since the minimum wage was introduced it has, on average, risen above inflation.
Expect the cost of living to increase in tandem with any increase in the minimum wage. Shops and services have to put their costs up in order to pay the wages.
Why should the minimum wage nationwide be equal to the London living wage? If you were saying any job that takes place within a London postcode should pay the London living wage fine, but nationwide?
I've spoken to various managers who say they are short staffed because they can only afford X amount of people.
Meanwhile, I'm certain there are loads of people out there who would rather be working in a bank or shop, earning less than the minimum wage, than doing nothing all day and claiming dole money.
Yeah, that was the downside of the minimum wage.
No-one's ever got any staff on. That and the rise of outsourcing.
I've been in meetings where decisions have been made to outsource. In one instance, just over 200 jobs would have been kept in the UK were the minimum wage at the time just 5p less per hour!
The issue with all of this is that folk (quite rightly) want to see a minimum wage, but don't want to pay more for the products they buy. And those two *must* go hand-in-hand.
The popularity of shops such as Primark, which barely have any staff on, and run on off-shored "exploited" labour forces, is the inevitable result.
A move towards the so-called 'living wage' can only really happen once consumer attitudes switch and they start paying to support the morals they purport to hold. Else, we'll just see even worse levels of services, even worse quality of goods and even more jobs lost to overseas.
Regards,
Cypher
Most people who claim to be poor can still afford to smoke, drink and live off take aways :rolleyes:
Increases in holiday entitlements,sickness entitlements, rights for casual & part time workers, maternity rights, .
all good & fair but they have to be paid for.
Small businessess usually operate on the tightest of margins.
And with the proposed increase in VAT things are only going to get worse.
Compare this to the US
1) Minimum wage and taxes are lower so it cheaper to take on staff. Shops and restaurants always have more staff available than they do here
2) Unemployment benefits are very limited so there's more of an incentive to work.
I'm not saying the US has it right, just that it's a different system.
They have an ingrained 'tipping' system as well.
20% is the going rate to tip your waiter if you were highly satisfied with the food and service.
In the good restaurants, they probably serve, on average, 50-60 guests per shift at around $60 per head when drinks are factored in.
So, that's $720 extra per shift in bonuses if everyone tips at the top end.
It's no wonder it's a profession over there...and why they fall over themselves to make you happy.
Regards,
Cypher
I will do it for £9ph. No need for time and half or any of that nonsense.
If an employer lowers wages, he/she has no right to complain when sales of product drop when other employers do likewise.
One of the reasons businesses are struggling is because many people cannot afford to buy things. Like I said it is a dangerous vicious circle.
I am low-paid but am lucky to be with a pretty good employer, who actually keeps employees informed about the state of the company, and thanks people for good results and working in difficult circumstances (such as snow).
Sadly, many employers these days don't even reply to job applications, an extremely rude and lazy attitude which speaks volumes, leaving applicants in the dark, waiting for nothing. They can't even be bothered to send an email.
Relugus, the problem is you shouldn't be low paid, you should be paid for a job well done. I'm sorry to burst the bubble, but if your employer is a Ltd. company you can buy their accounts from company house for a £1.You can check the profits & loss statements, if you know how many employees there are & sales, turnover etc. you will see how much you earn for your employer. My company is small and is not Ltd. Therefore I don't pay myself a wage or take dividends, we are a partnership, we pay full tax on profits after turnover, wages, materials, vehicles etc. I would be better off as a limited company, but profits our mine and my husbands and are devided to who does the most work, in our case my husband does. I haven't gone Ltd for the simple reason is my competitors can't buy my accounts.
If the min wage went up to £10 per hour, then employers would simply put their prices up to compensate. Others won't be able to afford whatever product / service is being provided, so they would want a pay rise to be able to. Then the people on Min wage would demand a higher rate, and then the roundabout starts all over again.
I used to wonder why, in the 2 major "discounters", we have in the UK, why I have to wait ages to get through the checkout. There are about 6 checkouts, but no matter how busy the stores are, there are only ever two open.
The reason is simple economics:-
If I want fast service, then the store has to employ more people. Then the prices have to go up to pay for the extra staff to the same level as prices in the big 4 supermarkets.
So I have a choice:-
Wait longer at the checkpouts for cheaper goods or pay more to get a speedy service.
Quite right. In most States, the minimum wage for "tipped" staff is lower than for other workers, often as low as $2/hr. However, go into a busy bar and there will be waiting staff everywhere so none of that slow queuing at the bar nonsense that you get here.
It all means you get more staff, better staff and lower running costs for restaurants. No wonder eating out is cheaper, a better experience and more common than it is in the UK. The only thing that doesn't go down well is Brits who refuse to tip.
I go to the US regularly and every time I come back it shocks me how bad service is in this country.
Quite right. In most States, the minimum wage for "tipped" staff is lower than for other workers, often as low as $2/hr. However, go into a busy bar and there will be waiting staff everywhere so none of that slow queuing at the bar nonsense that you get here.
It all means you get more staff, better staff and lower running costs for restaurants. No wonder eating out is cheaper, a better experience and more common than it is in the UK. The only thing that doesn't go down well is Brits who refuse to tip (apparently some restaurants in tourist areas have a "British menu" where prices are 20% higher)
I go to the US regularly and every time I come back it shocks me how bad service is in this country.
Precisely.
My son's friend is at college, he works part time at Aldi's, he earns far more than he would at Tesco, due to less staff, less wages to pay, but he works damn hard to get the extra wages.
The minimum wage is counter productive. It creates a norm and locks people in to low pay. Increasing it would result in job losses.
Wages are best left to a free market though I can see why Labour felt a minimum wage necessary, it was linked to their deliberate policy of opening the floodgates to cheap foreign labour.
I'm no better off now, on nearly £8 per hour than I was in 1999 on £3.60 per hour.
It's easy to be opinionated about this when you don't have to manage on £5.93 ph or 12k a year with no other income or other support.
No-one should have to work to earn a (poor) living for less than £7.50 an hour.
If the government want to be serious about "making work pay" then they need to raise the minimum wage substantially ... but they won't because it's all the usual spin!
How are you getting nearly £8 per hour on NMW?