Is this legal?

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9,177
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I joined fitness first back in July and signed a 3 month contract because I go back to uni in October and don't really have the time to go to the gym enough to warrant paying £32 a month.

The end of the 3 months has come and I assumed unless I renewed my contract I wouldn't be a member any more and the payments would stop. Well I was wrong.

Yesterday they took a 4th payment out of my account for October, I phoned them up and the woman told me that in my contract it states that I have to give a months notice to cancel. I'm pissed off by this point, but then it gets even worse. I say "Okay well if I cancel today then you won't take any more payments from me?" She says "Well because it's the 2nd of the month you haven't given a full months notice so we're going to have to charge you for November as well."

I was never told when I joined I had to give a months notice to cancel, I only signed up for 3 months not 5! :mad:

I've cancelled my direct debit with them, so is there anyway they can still charge me for November?
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Comments

  • AchtungAchtung Posts: 10,480
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    Speak to the manager and ask for a refund of the 4th month. This was obviously in the small print and wasn't explained to you at the time which it SHOULD have been. Be really firm here and get your money back.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,969
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    Well they can try - they will request the DD but your bank will return it. FF are well known for hiding behind small print and making it hard for you to leave. There is nothing illegal about it though, you did sign the contract - its just cr*p practice.

    You will probably get some threatening letters about the cancelled DD - just ignore them - would never be worth their while to take you to court for £30...
  • Keefy-boyKeefy-boy Posts: 13,561
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    from looking at their website, they offer a 'minimum 3-month contract'. it would seem likely that is what you signed, the implication being you must pay for a minimum of 3 months, it is not a fixed 3 month contract.

    if you have signed the contract it will be hard for you to argue against it unless you can prove that someone deliberately mislead you.

    under the circumstances i think their stance on sticking with the small print and wishing to charge you for november is very petty. i would be surprised if they pursue you for that, maybe someone else on here will know what their normal practice is.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9,177
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    Achtung wrote: »
    Speak to the manager and ask for a refund of the 4th month. This was obviously in the small print and wasn't explained to you at the time which it SHOULD have been. Be really firm here and get your money back.

    I joined with my friend and I just asked her if we were told this when we joined, and she said defnitely not and she had no idea we had to give a months notice either.

    I could accept paying for October, but I think they are really taking the piss charging me for November because I have given them 1 day under a months notice!

    If I'd have phoned them yesterday apparently I wouldn't have to pay for November as well.
  • chrisjrchrisjr Posts: 33,282
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    Looking on the Fitness First website what you most likely signed was a 3 month MINIMUM contract. Which is not the same as a 3 month contract.

    Basically it is an ongoing contract until you cancel it. It is just that you have to agree to use if for at least three months. It does not mean use it for 3 months then it stops. So they are perfectly within their rights to charge you for a fourth month since that is actually what you signed up for.

    And you may want to read their FAQ about cancellation.

    http://www.fitnessfirst.co.uk/Fitness-First-Gym-Membership/FAQ-Details.aspx?fdFAQId=7

    That says that cancellation periods are timed from the END of the month when you decide you want to cancel. Which is a bit odd since it effectively means that if you decide to leave on the first of the month you have to cough up another two months subs.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9,177
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    chrisjr wrote: »
    Looking on the Fitness First website what you most likely signed was a 3 month MINIMUM contract. Which is not the same as a 3 month contract.

    Basically it is an ongoing contract until you cancel it. It is just that you have to agree to use if for at least three months. It does not mean use it for 3 months then it stops. So they are perfectly within their rights to charge you for a fourth month since that is actually what you signed up for.

    And you may want to read their FAQ about cancellation.

    http://www.fitnessfirst.co.uk/Fitness-First-Gym-Membership/FAQ-Details.aspx?fdFAQId=7

    That says that cancellation periods are timed from the END of the month when you decide you want to cancel. Which is a bit odd since it effectively means that if you decide to leave on the first of the month you have to cough up another two months subs.

    Yeah this is the part I have problems with, I can understand them charging me for october, but to charge me for november as well just seems really pedantic.
  • Vodka_DrinkaVodka_Drinka Posts: 28,740
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    Fitness First are awful. This is exact same thing happened to my mum's friend and when she rang to complain they were very rude to her and told her she hadn't given them a months notice so they were still going to take the payments.

    I know for a fact that they are struggling at the moment because of recession. They are constantly phoning my mum up and asking her to rejoin. Im not sure if this is the reason they are still taking money, but it doesn't seem fair.

    Next time join Total Fitness instead;)
  • feistyfeisty Posts: 2,987
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    I watched a programme about Gym membership's the other evening...they're notorious for small print contracts...
    I myself was caught out when I relocated and wanted to cxl, they said they had a gym in my area and should tranfer my membership...i ended up paying 2 months cxl fees...
  • hobbeshobbes Posts: 6,149
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    don't just think it will go away if you cancel the DD. Even a small "debt" will be passed to a third party debt collection agency and they will pursue.
  • AchtungAchtung Posts: 10,480
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    hobbes wrote: »
    don't just think it will go away if you cancel the DD. Even a small "debt" will be passed to a third party debt collection agency and they will pursue.

    Which is why she needs to speak to someone over the phone, preferably the manager, and get them to cancel the contract and give her the 4th instalment back too - I mean for them to have the gall to say they're going to charge for November too just because of being one day over a month's notice would make me livid and that would make me think no, why should they get the October payment.

    Stick to the bit that this was not explained at all to you at the time and just be really really firm, tell them that you're even considering writing to the local paper so you can warn other future members about this.
  • lawrenma2lawrenma2 Posts: 4,060
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    If you ask your bank to cancel the DD and also raise an indemnity claim, they will be happy to instantly return the money to your account (almost instantly) without any cost to you.

    Also write a carefully worded letter to the manager asking for him / her to refund the latest payment, and mention that you will seek legal advice. Chances are, he'll not be happy with the repercussions on the off-chance he does get a solicitors letter, and will help you.
  • InspirationInspiration Posts: 62,694
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    I can see why you're frustrated but I can see why they've done it too.

    If they charged you on say, 1st October.. you notice, ring up on 2nd October, request to cancel, that months notice ends on 2nd November.. a day after your 1st November payment will leave.

    Yes it's annoying, frustrating, etc etc.. but sadly thats what you get with gyms. They are designed to get as much money out of their customers as they possibly can because gyms are notoriously bad for keeping customers.
  • InspirationInspiration Posts: 62,694
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    lawrenma2 wrote: »
    Also write a carefully worded letter to the manager asking for him / her to refund the latest payment, and mention that you will seek legal advice. Chances are, he'll not be happy with the repercussions on the off-chance he does get a solicitors letter, and will help you.

    It's worth a try but I expect the gym will be well aware of their rights and terms & conditions and probably won't just roll over at the threat of legal action. They must deal with hundreds of people with the query the OP has. But worth a try, I could be wrong.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,693
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    They're all as bad as each other when it comes to contracts; lack of transparency of fees.

    However, from a business point of view I think it's almost the only thing that actually makes them viable; hence why they are all so strict over it.

    If you sign a contract on site unfortunately distance selling legislation doesn't help so you have no cooling off period and you are bound by the small print that you signed up to.

    The only exception is if you can prove that your dispute relates to an unfair clause; and rolling contracts with a fixed notice period is very common and, i'm afraid, could never be claimed to be unfair.

    The other unfortunate reality is that the contract overrides anything the salesman has said. Note how this is subtly different to mis-selling; where somebody has sold you something that isn't appropriate.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 13,717
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    Achtung wrote: »
    Which is why she needs to speak to someone over the phone, preferably the manager, and get them to cancel the contract and give her the 4th instalment back too - I mean for them to have the gall to say they're going to charge for November too just because of being one day over a month's notice would make me livid and that would make me think no, why should they get the October payment.

    Stick to the bit that this was not explained at all to you at the time and just be really really firm, tell them that you're even considering writing to the local paper so you can warn other future members about this.
    I agree. As much as I liked my local FF's facilities & classes, I've been put right off them & wouldn't willingly join them again. When I tried to cancel my membership because I was going to have an op & wouldn't be able to use them for several months, they tried the same tactic with me to get two months' money out of me. I wasn't having it & took it up with the manager, who arranged a refund for me once I'd said I'd take it up with their head office & the local paper if I had to.

    I think they've lost a lot of customers because of the bad publicity they've received on their cancellation policy, yet they don't seem to want to change it. It seems to be the one thing that gets them in trouble, & they've definitely been known to involve debt collectors if a contract isn't honoured.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 226
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    I've worked with this type of contract before (although in another industry) and the terms aren't that unusual, even if you do think they're unfair.

    As other posters have said, the devil is in the detail and you signed a legally binding contract without checking what you were signing, sorry for sounding harsh but that's what's happened.

    Personally I wouldn't cancel your D/D, you've signed a binding agreement and would breach it by non-payment, I have seen people chased for 'minor' amounts, we'd ask nicely for the money owed then if nothing came back within a certain period give it to the debt collectors. That put at £35 on the bill for a start, plus charges for calls, letters, visits....

    End result is you could get a CCJ which would wreck your credit.

    Take the OP advice and talk to the manager to see if you can recover the money, but, if you can't just write it up to experience. Pay the money and learn to read the back of contracts :) You do not want to be involved with bailiffs and courts.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9,177
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    sailor11 wrote: »
    I've worked with this type of contract before (although in another industry) and the terms aren't that unusual, even if you do think they're unfair.

    As other posters have said, the devil is in the detail and you signed a legally binding contract without checking what you were signing, sorry for sounding harsh but that's what's happened.

    Personally I wouldn't cancel your D/D, you've signed a binding agreement and would breach it by non-payment, I have seen people chased for 'minor' amounts, we'd ask nicely for the money owed then if nothing came back within a certain period give it to the debt collectors. That put at £35 on the bill for a start, plus charges for calls, letters, visits....

    End result is you could get a CCJ which would wreck your credit.

    Take the OP advice and talk to the manager to see if you can recover the money, but, if you can't just write it up to experience. Pay the money and learn to read the back of contracts :) You do not want to be involved with bailiffs and courts.

    I've got a really good credit rating and don't want to ruin it for the sake of £35. I cancelled the direct debit before I rang them up and found out they were going to charge me for November as well. If they send me a letter about it, I'll go and see a manager to explain why I think I shouldn't have to pay and if they still insist on me paying it then I suppose I'll just have to. It's not worth all the hassle for £35 as frustrating as it is :mad:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,640
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    I cancelled my FF MEMBERSHIP ON THE FIFTH of the month and it was taken out on the 1st I only had to make that last payment. I put in the letter that I wished to cancel my name and address and contact details and I will be cancelling my dd and not paying anymore. All cancelled fine
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,991
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    chrisjr wrote: »
    Looking on the Fitness First website what you most likely signed was a 3 month MINIMUM contract. Which is not the same as a 3 month contract.

    That seems likely to me too - I joined a local gym over the summer holiday and they mentioned to me that I could pay monthly rather than annually although I had to be a member for at least 3 months. They also told me that I would need to cancel a month before the day I wanted to finish. I'm guessing this is very similar to the contract you had with the exception of FF ommitting the finer details.

    I'd ask speak to the manager. I don't know the proper legalities of the situation but speaking from experience in all the jobs I've done we were told we had to explain things in full to clients/customers so they couldn't come back and complain that we hadn't explained something to them and leave us liable. It therefore doesn't seem fair that you should lose out because their employees haven't done their job properly.

    I'm sure speaking to someone higher up would at least clear the DD for November.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 394
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    CTUaholic wrote: »
    Well they can try - they will request the DD but your bank will return it. FF are well known for hiding behind small print and making it hard for you to leave. There is nothing illegal about it though, you did sign the contract - its just cr*p practice.

    You will probably get some threatening letters about the cancelled DD - just ignore them - would never be worth their while to take you to court for £30...

    Agree with above, they might send you debt collection letters etc, if you are not that worried about having that on credit rating ignore it.

    However, if you are worried about your credit rating then you need to sort it.

    I would try Citizens Advice they are extremely helpfull with these type things and law and debt advice etc and it is FREE.

    Good luck
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,161
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    They are bastards for doing that. So much these days seems to be about money and sneaky tricks or misleading things to fool people.

    I would try talking to the manager nicely about it, too - might get more luck that way.
  • the chimpthe chimp Posts: 12,139
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    hobbes wrote: »
    don't just think it will go away if you cancel the DD. Even a small "debt" will be passed to a third party debt collection agency and they will pursue.
    All the way to court ??? ...... believe me, they wont.

    O.P. I would go one step further and claim back the last payment through the D.D. Guarantee.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 394
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    the chimp wrote: »
    All the way to court ??? ...... believe me, they wont.

    O.P. I would go one step further and claim back the last payment through the D.D. Guarantee.

    I was once pursued for £40 quid!! believe me, some companies will do it... They sell their debts onto these agencies, who obviously make their money by harrassing people for money.... so the OP is taking a gamble if they are worried about their credit rating.

    Me my Credit Rating is shite, so I don't worry about these things anymore.

    On another note, did you know that you are not legally obliged to allow a baliff to enter your home, even if they have a court order?

    I was once under threat from Baliffs, and I rang the court and spoke to a very nice lady who told me that, but if you leave a window open, they are allowed to climb through!

    I once spent a very hot summer, with the windows closed! lol
  • the chimpthe chimp Posts: 12,139
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    EmmaActual wrote: »
    I was once pursued for £40 quid!! believe me, some companies will do it... They sell their debts onto these agencies, who obviously make their money by harrassing people for money.... so the OP is taking a gamble if they are worried about their credit rating.

    l
    Harassed or took all the way to court ? because they are 2 very different things, I was harassed by 3 for over a year court threats, phone calls etc. but I didnt believe I owed them so I didnt pay, they gave up in the end.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 394
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    They turned up at my door, but I told them to .... off and then they said they had court order... so I said well I still dont have to let you in coz I checked with the court and legally you don't eventually they went away, they knocked a few times after that, but I just didn't answer the door.

    I just kept the windows shut all summer, in case they climbed in!! It was obviously more than £40 quid coz they charge you for this and that etc. etc, but yes orginally the Debt was for £40.00
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