What I am intrigued about is Ismay's meeting in Belfast with Pirrie and Andrews, on March 20th. Presumably he rushed at break-neck speed to be at his daughters wedding in London the next day.
The problem for me is still the same - the lack of a sense of scale.
The Titanic was a massive ship. Even by today's standards it would be quite large but somehow they've managed to make it look really small and pokey in the TV series.
They also need to build some more recognisable sets - the Grand Staircase is always a good one because it instantly places you on the Titanic.
The first class restaurant on the real Titanic was huge but the series makes it look like it would only have about 4 tables in it!
The only shots that have given any sense of scale so far have been the admittedly very good brief shots of the outiside of the ship when docked.
I have to say last night's episode was better than the dreadful first episode but the script is still clunky and cliched.
I thought last nights episode was better than Ep1 - which probably should have been 90mins so we got better paced introduction to the various characters. I do agree that the set and scale of the boat don't seem to gel at all, but that's a production problem, can't blame Fellowes for that.
Ratings for last night are not good, I guess people gave up afterr Ep1 and many chose SW.
Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate them. Sadly some have taken to slating my work, but if ITV/Hollywood/whomever tells bare-faced lies and then tells us that their output is "accurate"...who is going to tell them otherwise? In Cameron's case not the sycophant "experts" who kiss his backside.
Away from the historical snafus, drama-wise, last night's episode was a hell of a lot better than part 1.
No problem. Indeed - pointing out historical inaccuracies is, IMO, something to be lauded. Otherwise, people tend to take dramas at face value and believe all kinds of nonsense - for example, I've spoken to many who think themselves experts on Shakespeare and Shakespearean England because they watched Anonymous. It's an insult to history and to historians - who have devoted time and energy to ascertaining facts - as far as I'm concerned. Heck, I can even sit and and enjoy the old 1953 Stanwyck picture because it makes no serious pretensions to historical accuracy (despite the opening titles); it's simply a soapy, old-fashioned drama set against the backdrop of the Titanic. Cameron and Fellowes, on the other hand, seem to encourage the belief that they are arbiters of truth and accuracy which, as you've adroitly shown, is far from the case.
With regard to last night's episode - yes, it was slightly more focused and interesting than the first episode, but it still suffered from too much unrealistic exposition, characters it's impossible to care about (for one, they're not real, for another, we see very little of them), cheap and 'un-Titanic' looking sets, an emphasis on class at the expense of realistic dialogue and character development and a general feeling that the whole thing was rushed. Ah well, at least Maria Doyle Kennedy and Toby Jones had a chance to shine - even if their emotional scene was bizarre and poorly stages in the extreme.
Indeed if you are so inclined then you could play a little drinking game every time somebody mentions how stable the Titanic is and how it doesn’t matter if they cut corners have a sip of your chosen beverage. My favourite example of this is when Captain Smith tells his crew that man may sink us, even if nature can’t and in that sentence essentially seals the fate of all on board.
The Titanic is something that I have been interested for years, and I always watch anything on telly about it (my other half is starting to get bored lol) so..... i thought I'd give this 'realistic account' a go.
First ep, couldnt follow. felt it lacked drama and the iceberg was probably the best actor! :rolleyes:
Last nite I wanted to give up :yawn: was counting down the minutes 'til the iceberg came back!
lookin forward to Titanic 3d tho, maybe Fellowes should go n see it too
Is every single sentence to be about class in some way or other?
Yes.
My guess is that Fellowes' brief was to make something for the US market that would conform to all the stereotypes. Tosh, pure unadulterated utter tosh that discredits Titanic's memory.
Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate them. Sadly some have taken to slating my work, but if ITV/Hollywood/whomever tells bare-faced lies and then tells us that their output is "accurate"...who is going to tell them otherwise? In Cameron's case not the sycophant "experts" who kiss his backside.
Away from the historical snafus, drama-wise, last night's episode was a hell of a lot better than part 1.
Well, there's no way I'm slogging through any more of the ITV horror, but I do fancy the look of this on Sunday, a forensic examination of all the latest evidence to build up as accurate a picture as possible of what happened:
I've no idea if these experts are all sycophants too (though I suspect you'll tell me they are...) but they seem pretty well qualified to me. And even the most cursory glance shows how much more accurate the portrayal of the ship was in Cameron's version than others, so I don't have too many issues with a lot of the experts appreciating his film.
When watching episode 2 I felt like I was watching episode 1, deja vu! For me there was no increase/decrease in improvement, it was just a steady stream of crapness.
I'm trying to remember the characters off the top of my head ..
Toby Jones - always looks confused. At one point I thought he was going to throw himself overboard - who would blame him? His wife - always moaning about this, that and the other. Both seem to spend their whole marriage talking about class.
The woman out of Emmerdale - Hair never out of place.
Captain Birdseye - I can't help but admire his eyebrows.
Steven Waddington - Spends his time walking around the ship not doing anything.
Random whispering Italian fella - Possibly my favourite character. What did he say to the woman? Why did she look miffed?
The young couple - Saw them in the first episode but where did they go? They fell in love in less than an hour.
Irish catholic family - All I know is that guy isn't fond of using ladders. His wife is always giving him a dodgy look.
I can't stand Julian Fellowes. Seeing his Pompous Percy Pig face peering out of screen or newspaper magazine complaining once more that his wife was unable to inherit her father’s title and how all right minded people should be outraged by this. Yes Julian, the inheritance of a peerage is a pressing matter for us all ......... actually, hang on a moment........
I find the changes in the British class system fascinating but I do a get a bit hacked off when fawning articles seem to suggest that Mr Fellowes is the first person to write about it. ‘Oh my God Julian, how clever of you to notice the British obsession with class, oh do let me stroke your Pompous Percy Pig head'.
I grew to like some of the characters in this week's episode but feel there is no point really caring about them because next week will focus on other characters.
With this production only being four episodes the individual stories feel a bit crammed in and rushed.
However I am really enjoying Len Goodman's series of three on the Titanic..
I very much get the impression that thousands of hours of film was made and someone has done a 'cut and paste' job without any thought of developing or explaining characters, scenes or stories. Characters appear with little or no explanation as to why they are there or acting in such a manner. No continuity. No build up of tension. Everyone going about there business and then suddenly rushing for lifeboats with no gradual realisation that a diasaster is unfolding.
When watching episode 2 I felt like I was watching episode 1, deja vu! For me there was no increase/decrease in improvement, it was just a steady stream of crapness.
I'm trying to remember the characters off the top of my head ..
Toby Jones - always looks confused. At one point I thought he was going to throw himself overboard - who would blame him? His wife - always moaning about this, that and the other. Both seem to spend their whole marriage talking about class.
The woman out of Emmerdale - Hair never out of place.
Captain Birdseye - I can't help but admire his eyebrows.
Steven Waddington - Spends his time walking around the ship not doing anything.
Random whispering Italian fella - Possibly my favourite character. What did he say to the woman? Why did she look miffed?
The young couple - Saw them in the first episode but where did they go? They fell in love in less than an hour.
Irish catholic family - All I know is that guy isn't fond of using ladders. His wife is always giving him a dodgy look.
Feel free to add anymore.
Be fair, Apple_Crumble - he spends most of his shifts dancing with passengers or otherwise playing host. It's not like the second officer on the biggest ship in the world would have anything else to do before or during a disaster!
Last week ep was a 4/10 this weeks was 6/10 so slightly better, only because we saw more of it being a ship and the iceberg. Overall still pretty dire
The series is not really about the Titanic at all. Fellowes has written four mini soap operas about a bunch of mainly fictional characters and just happened to set them on board the ship. Such is the way it has been written, it could nearly end with the Titanic not sinking.
If you go on to this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_%282012_TV_miniseries%29 and scroll down to the cast list, the ones in blue are the real characters. It's possible that others might be real too, but Linus Roache's character, for instance, doesn't appear to be as I've googled the Earl of Manton and he doesn't appear to have existed. I can only assume that's true of many of them.
There was a Baron Manton, but he wasn't on the Titanic, died 1922. He was a soap manufacturer (Unilever).
I grew to like some of the characters in this week's episode but feel there is no point really caring about them because next week will focus on other characters.
With this production only being four episodes the individual stories feel a bit crammed in and rushed. However I am really enjoying Len Goodman's series of three on the Titanic..
The series is not really about the Titanic at all. Fellowes has written four mini soap operas about a bunch of mainly fictional characters and just happened to set them on board the ship. Such is the way it has been written, it could nearly end with the Titanic not sinking.
I will stick with it, only because I want ot see what happens to them all! my trouble is that I love Camerons film so much its hard to watch other interpret it. But we will see
Well, there's no way I'm slogging through any more of the ITV horror, but I do fancy the look of this on Sunday, a forensic examination of all the latest evidence to build up as accurate a picture as possible of what happened:
I've no idea if these experts are all sycophants too (though I suspect you'll tell me they are...) but they seem pretty well qualified to me. And even the most cursory glance shows how much more accurate the portrayal of the ship was in Cameron's version than others, so I don't have too many issues with a lot of the experts appreciating his film.
Well, I know 4 people on the "super 8" and have had contact with one of the others. One of the four can't help but namedrop his famous friends: "I was talking to Jim and he said...", "I phoned Cameron up and he told me..." and so
on. I won't mention who the sycophants are (for legal reasons). Still at least Charles Pellegrino and Dan Butler aren't within a million miles of it. I can imagine how conversations would have gone:
NB:
JC = James Cameron (not Jesus Christ, even though that how he thinks of himself).
TE = Titanic Expert
Phone rings. A man picks it up. ( names and expletives removed)
JC: "***, is that you? **** man, I need your help. I've written myself into a corner and I can't get out."
TE: "Calm down, Jim, whats happened?
JC: "You remember that scene where Jack goes to the 1st class dinner party?"
TE: "Yes."
JC: "I've just realised that he's got nothing to wear. He can't turn up looking like a ruffian."
TE: "Well, no he can't."
JC: "**** man, I can't think of a way out of this. **** **** ****!!!!! Can you think of anything?"
TE: "Well, technically speaking Jim he shouldn't be there. He shouldn't even be in 1st class. There was very strict
class segregation due to quarantine laws."
JC: "**** thats NOT what I want to hear. Come on, help me out here. He's got to go to that dinner."
TE: "Jim, I can only tell you historically what would have happened. He would not be let into 3rd class."
JC: "Oh for ******'* sake!! This is NOT good enough."
pause
TE: "OK, how about he borrows a diner suit that Mrs. Brown might have bought in Europe for one of her younger relatives."
JC: "Mrs. Brown? You mean Molly?"
TE: "Er, her real name was Maragaret. No one called her Molly."
JC: Yeah, OK, whatever. So if he borrows this suit he can go?"
TE: "Well, yeah, but its a stretch."
JC: "That'll do, Jim out."
and
TE: "Even though there are witness statements Jim, I really don't think an officer shot himself. We should be careful, people's relatives might be offended."
JC: "**** it, its my film. What I say goes."
Talking about historical innacuracies, does anyone know wether the scene where Officer Murdoch shoots a man and then shoots himself wi be in the new 3D version. After the film came out originally his family were horrified and JC even apologised for ruining the mans reputation didn't he? If so I think that scene should have been removed. I wonder wether it has been....
The second episode was definitely an improvement but it still wasn't all that great. Despite the crowds trying to access the boats and the iceberg there never really seemed any tense danger as such! When the Batleys spoke about their marriage and then said they would die calmly together - where was the fight and the determination? The scale of the danger and disaster just doesn't seem to have been conveyed all that well on screen.
The second episode was definitely an improvement but it still wasn't all that great. Despite the crowds trying to access the boats and the iceberg there never really seemed any tense danger as such! When the Batleys spoke about their marriage and then said they would die calmly together - where was the fight and the determination? The scale of the danger and disaster just doesn't seem to have been conveyed all that well on screen.
That is very true. Within less than five minutes, Mrs Batley had gone from being next to a boat about to be launched to calmly telling her husband that they should make up and die. It was so forced and rushed that one could not take it seriously. The way this programme portrays it, the Titanic struck the iceberg, launched (all two?) boats and then got ready to take the final plunge within about twenty minutes. The sinking took two hours and forty minutes, and there was a long period of calm before the boats were launched, followed by the launching, then yet more time as things really began to fall apart and the gravity of the situation hit home. Did Fellowes mix up the sinking of the Titanic with the Lusitania?
Comments
The Titanic was a massive ship. Even by today's standards it would be quite large but somehow they've managed to make it look really small and pokey in the TV series.
They also need to build some more recognisable sets - the Grand Staircase is always a good one because it instantly places you on the Titanic.
The first class restaurant on the real Titanic was huge but the series makes it look like it would only have about 4 tables in it!
The only shots that have given any sense of scale so far have been the admittedly very good brief shots of the outiside of the ship when docked.
I have to say last night's episode was better than the dreadful first episode but the script is still clunky and cliched.
Ratings for last night are not good, I guess people gave up afterr Ep1 and many chose SW.
No problem.
With regard to last night's episode - yes, it was slightly more focused and interesting than the first episode, but it still suffered from too much unrealistic exposition, characters it's impossible to care about (for one, they're not real, for another, we see very little of them), cheap and 'un-Titanic' looking sets, an emphasis on class at the expense of realistic dialogue and character development and a general feeling that the whole thing was rushed. Ah well, at least Maria Doyle Kennedy and Toby Jones had a chance to shine - even if their emotional scene was bizarre and poorly stages in the extreme.
Source
Lost 3 million viewers from last week, I hear?
First ep, couldnt follow. felt it lacked drama and the iceberg was probably the best actor! :rolleyes:
Last nite I wanted to give up :yawn: was counting down the minutes 'til the iceberg came back!
lookin forward to Titanic 3d tho, maybe Fellowes should go n see it too
Yes.
My guess is that Fellowes' brief was to make something for the US market that would conform to all the stereotypes. Tosh, pure unadulterated utter tosh that discredits Titanic's memory.
Well, there's no way I'm slogging through any more of the ITV horror, but I do fancy the look of this on Sunday, a forensic examination of all the latest evidence to build up as accurate a picture as possible of what happened:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/titanic/final-word-with-james-cameron/
I've no idea if these experts are all sycophants too (though I suspect you'll tell me they are...) but they seem pretty well qualified to me. And even the most cursory glance shows how much more accurate the portrayal of the ship was in Cameron's version than others, so I don't have too many issues with a lot of the experts appreciating his film.
I'm trying to remember the characters off the top of my head ..
Toby Jones - always looks confused. At one point I thought he was going to throw himself overboard - who would blame him? His wife - always moaning about this, that and the other. Both seem to spend their whole marriage talking about class.
The woman out of Emmerdale - Hair never out of place.
Captain Birdseye - I can't help but admire his eyebrows.
Steven Waddington - Spends his time walking around the ship not doing anything.
Random whispering Italian fella - Possibly my favourite character. What did he say to the woman? Why did she look miffed?
The young couple - Saw them in the first episode but where did they go? They fell in love in less than an hour.
Irish catholic family - All I know is that guy isn't fond of using ladders. His wife is always giving him a dodgy look.
Feel free to add anymore.
I find the changes in the British class system fascinating but I do a get a bit hacked off when fawning articles seem to suggest that Mr Fellowes is the first person to write about it. ‘Oh my God Julian, how clever of you to notice the British obsession with class, oh do let me stroke your Pompous Percy Pig head'.
With this production only being four episodes the individual stories feel a bit crammed in and rushed.
However I am really enjoying Len Goodman's series of three on the Titanic..
Be fair, Apple_Crumble - he spends most of his shifts dancing with passengers or otherwise playing host. It's not like the second officer on the biggest ship in the world would have anything else to do before or during a disaster!
The series is not really about the Titanic at all. Fellowes has written four mini soap operas about a bunch of mainly fictional characters and just happened to set them on board the ship. Such is the way it has been written, it could nearly end with the Titanic not sinking.
There was a Baron Manton, but he wasn't on the Titanic, died 1922. He was a soap manufacturer (Unilever).
So am I.
I will stick with it, only because I want ot see what happens to them all! my trouble is that I love Camerons film so much its hard to watch other interpret it. But we will see
Well, I know 4 people on the "super 8" and have had contact with one of the others. One of the four can't help but namedrop his famous friends: "I was talking to Jim and he said...", "I phoned Cameron up and he told me..." and so
on. I won't mention who the sycophants are (for legal reasons). Still at least Charles Pellegrino and Dan Butler aren't within a million miles of it. I can imagine how conversations would have gone:
NB:
JC = James Cameron (not Jesus Christ, even though that how he thinks of himself).
TE = Titanic Expert
Phone rings. A man picks it up. ( names and expletives removed)
JC: "***, is that you? **** man, I need your help. I've written myself into a corner and I can't get out."
TE: "Calm down, Jim, whats happened?
JC: "You remember that scene where Jack goes to the 1st class dinner party?"
TE: "Yes."
JC: "I've just realised that he's got nothing to wear. He can't turn up looking like a ruffian."
TE: "Well, no he can't."
JC: "**** man, I can't think of a way out of this. **** **** ****!!!!! Can you think of anything?"
TE: "Well, technically speaking Jim he shouldn't be there. He shouldn't even be in 1st class. There was very strict
class segregation due to quarantine laws."
JC: "**** thats NOT what I want to hear. Come on, help me out here. He's got to go to that dinner."
TE: "Jim, I can only tell you historically what would have happened. He would not be let into 3rd class."
JC: "Oh for ******'* sake!! This is NOT good enough."
pause
TE: "OK, how about he borrows a diner suit that Mrs. Brown might have bought in Europe for one of her younger relatives."
JC: "Mrs. Brown? You mean Molly?"
TE: "Er, her real name was Maragaret. No one called her Molly."
JC: Yeah, OK, whatever. So if he borrows this suit he can go?"
TE: "Well, yeah, but its a stretch."
JC: "That'll do, Jim out."
and
TE: "Even though there are witness statements Jim, I really don't think an officer shot himself. We should be careful, people's relatives might be offended."
JC: "**** it, its my film. What I say goes."
----
I have some doubts about the NatGeo special. I wrote a little postscript about it at the end of http://www.paullee.com/titanic/jc1997goofs.html
I am NOT happy. Thats still 4.38 million too many.
The ratings seem to be sinking faster than did the Titanic.
That is very true. Within less than five minutes, Mrs Batley had gone from being next to a boat about to be launched to calmly telling her husband that they should make up and die. It was so forced and rushed that one could not take it seriously. The way this programme portrays it, the Titanic struck the iceberg, launched (all two?) boats and then got ready to take the final plunge within about twenty minutes. The sinking took two hours and forty minutes, and there was a long period of calm before the boats were launched, followed by the launching, then yet more time as things really began to fall apart and the gravity of the situation hit home. Did Fellowes mix up the sinking of the Titanic with the Lusitania?
I found Baron Manton, but Baron is very far down the social ladder from Earl!