Yes, that could have been interesting. The whole "Shirley as Mick's mother" thing has been sidelined for this dreadful plot. And the addition of Dean as Shabnam's secret babydaddy is just ridiculous. Eastenders always has to take things a step too far. Looking back at the dreaded baby swap, wouldn't the tragedy of a cot death been a big enough story for Ronnie? Characters get damaged so much by the need to come up with more and more sensational stories.
I agree. Rape is an important issue but this has been handled really badly.
As Shirley is a long term character, I did expect more from the parentage reveal, it is a huge part of her history and it was completely sidelined, the reveal was accepted by the family unbelievably quickly.
I agree 're sensationalism, they do seem to have a habit of overegging which consequently damages characters in the process. A cot death would have been enough without a baby swap and the rape would have been enough without Dean's involvement or a 'who's the daddy'.
It's okay. Actually maybe attempted mass murderer is a bit harsh. He was drunk and his intentions probably weren't to incinerate all of the punters, however having said that you can't excuse him, because it didn't happen. Had that barrel store been set on fire many people in the pub would have died - especially Pearl who's premature lungs wouldn't have been able to handle the fumes and that's assuming she'd have been born quick enough to allow Kim to escape.
This is the problem. You don't think he's a monster, because of the way he's being "painted" and this will be the message being sent out to many people who are seeing the storyline the way you are. The fact of the matter is serial rapist or not he is a sex offender. He is an unrepentant, remorseless sex offender and that in my eyes makes him a monster.
I agree with all of this. In my opinion, Shirley's numerous abandonments, Linda's caring nature, Dean's misogyny, his break-up with Lauren, his alcohol all contributed to what he did. However those factors are not an excuse. The fact that they are choosing to explore his mental health after he has committed the ultimate hateful and disrespectful crime against woman, is a poor decision.
I agree. Would you not find this excruciatingly painful to watch though, if that happened?
I've not been a fan of Matt di Angelo's acting since his return, but I must admit he did do well in those scenes. So I commend him for that. I feel so sorry for him. Having to play a regular character who is a rapist on the most popular long running continuing drama series must be hard.
If this was a real-life situation? Linda would/should leave the square with her family. If Dean isn't going anywhere why should she suffer having to be his neighbour? It's not letting him win if she moves away. If I was one of the showrunners, that's not what I would have done. I would have either put Dean jail and have him undergo treatment whilst inside and then upon release have him dedicate a large part of his life to helping and supporting victims of rape, educating young people and also helping other sex offenders carry on with their lives.
DTC has said there will be a satisfying justice. The only satisfying justice I could possibly see is anything that includes a long departure from the square.
I agree Ell. I have lost sympathy for Linda Carter as a character. Nothing to do with her rape. Because we are constantly being forced to feel sorry for both Dean and Linda is what repels me from them even more. What makes a good character is their flaws. Ian, Jane, Ben, Shirley, Phil, Dot, Denise and others imo are great characters mostly because of their flaws.
I may be wrong ( a likely scenario ;-) ) but I think this is the thing that is causing so much debate amongst EE viewers. The fact that Dean isn't your average soap villian, completely obvious and an unpopular character....
I mean, would we be even having a debate like this had it been Willmot Brown right now?
Exploring mental health would be dangerous for EE. The whole nature is so complex, and complicated, that imo they couldn't and wouldn't do it justice, and the sheer magnitude of it, would take months and months to unravel.
And tbh, I have no idea if your mental health can make you rape a woman......I'd just prefer to think of more simplistic reasons.
If it were a real life situation, then I agree, almost certainly Linda and family woudn't still be on the square. I know I wouldn't be!
I'm not in favour of the actor leaving the soap, but I know that in order for him to stay, he'll have to be redeemed, and how I don't know.
The satisfying revenge, I have no idea of what they've got planned. It can't be another set to with Mick. We've had about two of those to date I think....
I had thought that she was going to record evidence on her mobile, but that didn't happen last night.
But on a lighter note........................Seeing him last night, I may well change my mind about killing him off........I mean, did you see the state of his beard
Tonight was horrible, the impression I got was "if you admit you were a naughty boy we'll say no more about it so my husband doesn't get upset on my behalf".
What does that tell us, girls? Your experience means NOTHING.
Let's care about Dean and his delusion
Lets care about Mick and his reaction
What about Linda and what we saw happen on screen?
I think it was a good move to acknowledge that rapes do not get prosecuted due to lack of evidence and one word against another. But this was appalling. I think I'm done.
I don't understand where you got this impression from Mick has not given any sense that he would ever forgive and forget what Dean did and it would be hard to impossible to imagine Lee ever socialising with Dean again so I don't see how it could all be forgotten and forgiven however Dean reacted.
The show could of course have done things differently and been unrealistic and have Dean charged and convicted with rape but they went down a realistic route and this didn't happen.
As for Linda, she's in a dreadful and some might say ridiculous predicament whereby her attacker is a family member and for soap purposes the drama always has to be maintained so she can't leave and Dean can't leave so it just keeps going with Shirley, very realistically for her, keeping fanning the flames.
However I do actually think Linda confronting Dean and trying to get him to admit to what he did was realistic in that there really was nothing else left for her to do and it was actually really empowering for Linda the character and also positive for us the viewers as, if and when Dean does admit what he's done It will be closure for all of us :cool:
I may be wrong ( a likely scenario ;-) ) but I think this is the thing that is causing so much debate amongst EE viewers. The fact that Dean isn't your average soap villian, completely obvious and an unpopular character....
I mean, would we be even having a debate like this had it been Willmot Brown right now?
Exploring mental health would be dangerous for EE. The whole nature is so complex, and complicated, that imo they couldn't and wouldn't do it justice, and the sheer magnitude of it, would take months and months to unravel.
And tbh, I have no idea if your mental health can make you rape a woman......I'd just prefer to think of more simplistic reasons.
If it were a real life situation, then I agree, almost certainly Linda and family woudn't still be on the square. I know I wouldn't be!
I'm not in favour of the actor leaving the soap, but I know that in order for him to stay, he'll have to be redeemed, and how I don't know.
The satisfying revenge, I have no idea of what they've got planned. It can't be another set to with Mick. We've had about two of those to date I think....
I had thought that she was going to record evidence on her mobile, but that didn't happen last night.
But on a lighter note........................Seeing him last night, I may well change my mind about killing him off........I mean, did you see the state of his beard
And let's not talk about the haircut
They can not redeem Dean raping Linda. This storyline has to end and Dean has to move away from the square. If keeping him on screen means they'll have to film prison scenes then fine so be it. But I will not be made to pity him and forgive him.
I'm giving it until summer. If there is no indication Dean will be leaving the square then I will be starting a campaign/petition.
But as for that lighter note I think Matt di Angelo is so much hotter with the rugged look. Looks much more like a trendy stylist.
They can not redeem Dean raping Linda. This storyline has to end and Dean has to move away from the square. If keeping him on screen means they'll have to film prison scenes then fine so be it. But I will not be made to pity him and forgive him.
I'm giving it until summer. If there is no indication Dean will be leaving the square then I will be starting a campaign/petition.
But on a lighter note I think Matt di Angelo is so much hotter with the rugged look. Looks much more like a trendy stylist.
Matt is still filming, so that means he will still be on screen around July, doesn't it? I hope Dean's eventual departure doesn't result in an exit for Buster. I would like to get to know him as a character in his own right and with Shirley, without Dean.
I loved what Linda did, I honestly do, it's actually been one of my favourite things about the rape storyline so far. If anything I actually feel sympathy with Linda more than ever over this. Not that I didn't already but I don't see why what she did makes her deserving of contempt
They can not redeem Dean raping Linda. This storyline has to end and Dean has to move away from the square. If keeping him on screen means they'll have to film prison scenes then fine so be it. But I will not be made to pity him and forgive him.
I'm giving it until summer. If there is no indication Dean will be leaving the square then I will be starting a campaign/petition.
But on a lighter note I think Matt di Angelo is so much hotter with the rugged look. Looks much more like a trendy stylist.
Shoot me if I ever take it this seriously ;-)
Has anyone considered this could be an experiment to keep in a 'good looking' (to some) or popular character to see how far they can push him before he becomes hated???
I loved what Linda did, I honestly do, it's actually been one of my favourite things about the rape storyline so far. If anything I actually feel sympathy with Linda more than ever over this. Not that I didn't already but I don't see why what she did makes her deserving of contempt
I personally think it was the wrong thing for the writers to show, a rape victim speaking to her rapist, alone.I get the sentiment of Linda needing closure and wanting Dean to admit it but realistically that could be dangerous situation and I don't think it sent out the best message on those grounds, for real life victims.
Has anyone considered this could be an experiment to keep in a 'good looking' (to some) or popular character to see how far they can push him before he becomes hated???
I loved what Linda did, I honestly do, it's actually been one of my favourite things about the rape storyline so far. If anything I actually feel sympathy with Linda more than ever over this. Not that I didn't already but I don't see why what she did makes her deserving of contempt
Do you not understand how some could see Linda's actions and words as "Admit you raped me and we'll say no more about it".
Rape is a HUGE thing. I feel like with every Carter episode that goes by the subject of rape is being trivialised more and more
I personally think it was the wrong thing for the writers to show, a rape victim speaking to her rapist, alone.I get the sentiment of Linda needing closure and wanting Dean to admit it but realistically that could be dangerous situation and I don't think it sent out the best message on those grounds, for real life victims.
And this is what I think a lot of posters are not getting. I can't speak for the OP but I am sure most of us are not against Linda, it's the writers of the plot that are the issue and most of what has been expressed here and on other threads is just that, annoyance that such a serious issue has been written with seemingly little care and gaping flaws.
Has anyone considered this could be an experiment to keep in a 'good looking' (to some) or popular character to see how far they can push him before he becomes hated???
:D!
Don't get me wrong, if Matt di Angelo asked to come round for the night - I'd be getting the glitterball and the satin sheets out. But I would never let my opinion for Matt di Angelo's face get in the way of my opinion on Dean!
I may be wrong ( a likely scenario ;-) ) but I think this is the thing that is causing so much debate amongst EE viewers. The fact that Dean isn't your average soap villian, completely obvious and an unpopular character.... I mean, would we be even having a debate like this had it been Willmot Brown right now?
Exploring mental health would be dangerous for EE. The whole nature is so complex, and complicated, that imo they couldn't and wouldn't do it justice, and the sheer magnitude of it, would take months and months to unravel.
And tbh, I have no idea if your mental health can make you rape a woman......I'd just prefer to think of more simplistic reasons.
If it were a real life situation, then I agree, almost certainly Linda and family woudn't still be on the square. I know I wouldn't be!
I'm not in favour of the actor leaving the soap, but I know that in order for him to stay, he'll have to be redeemed, and how I don't know.
The satisfying revenge, I have no idea of what they've got planned. It can't be another set to with Mick. We've had about two of those to date I think....
I had thought that she was going to record evidence on her mobile, but that didn't happen last night.
But on a lighter note........................Seeing him last night, I may well change my mind about killing him off........I mean, did you see the state of his beard
And let's not talk about the haircut
As far as the beard and the state of his hair goes, they are obvious effects of having spent time in prison. It won't take him long to be well groomed again.
BIB _ I agree.
It would be challenging to explore mental health but some criminals are mentally ill and sadly they have usually already committed a crime before their mental health issues can be addressed and dealt with.
As for mental health issues causing rape - I don't think it causes the actual rape but sometimes the reasons why a person may commit rape can be delusional reasons or stem from mental health/personality problems.
And this is what I think a lot of posters are not getting. I can't speak for the OP but I am sure most of us are not against Linda, it's the writers of the plot that are the issue and most of what has been expressed here and on other threads is just that, annoyance that such a serious issue has been written with seemingly little care and gaping flaws.
I completely disagree. As I've already said, Linda bravely confronting Dean is massively positive and a very empowering thing. I'd rather see this any day than see her a cowering wreck or see Mick and Lee sorting Dean out for her. It showed what Dean is, powerless if you take you take his supposed power away from him. I loved it :cool:
They can not redeem Dean raping Linda. This storyline has to end and Dean has to move away from the square. If keeping him on screen means they'll have to film prison scenes then fine so be it. But I will not be made to pity him and forgive him.
I'm giving it until summer. If there is no indication Dean will be leaving the square then I will be starting a campaign/petition.
But as for that lighter note I think Matt di Angelo is so much hotter with the rugged look. Looks much more like a trendy stylist.
I disagree. If Dean went through prison and rehabilitation and eventually showed guilt and remorse then he would be able to redeem himself imo.
I completely disagree. As I've already said, Linda bravely confronting Dean is massively positive and a very empowering thing. I'd rather see this any day than see her a cowering wreck or see Mick and Lee sorting Dean out for her. It showed what Dean is, powerless if you take you take his supposed power away from him. I loved it :cool:
I absolutely agree! I don't think anybody is doubting the sentiment of what Linda did. She took the power away from Dean and almost reduced him to tears. It's just that this happened in his living room - while they were alone - the day he's been released from prison. I would have much rathered her have do this in a different way at a different time.
No, he can't. He will always be "that guy who raped Linda".
People have to learn to look beyond that. Yes, prison and rehabilitation won't change what Dean did but viewers/posters/characters would still have the satisfaction of him being punished for what he did if he went to prison. By your logic;
Ronnie will always be the person who stole Kat and Alfie's baby.
Ben will always be the person who killed Heather.
Stacey will always be the person who killed Archie.
Tony Gordon will always be the man who had Liam killed despite the fact that he showed guilt and remorse and fell in love with Maria.
John Stape will always be the man who killed Charlotte and Joy
And the list just goes on and on.
The past cannot be changed but criminals can pay for their crimes, learn from their mistakes and become productive members of society.
Do you not understand how some could see Linda's actions and words as "Admit you raped me and we'll say no more about it".
Rape is a HUGE thing. I feel like with every Carter episode that goes by the subject of rape is being trivialised more and more
Because Dean had been released and her case is not being pursued by CPS, I believe Linda thought this was her only way to achieve any type of closure. I think Linda was being sadly realistic given her situation. There was no legal way she could prevent him from living near her. As the owner of the Vic, she could bar him from entering, but that's probably about it. Having her rapist admit to her face wouldn't erase what happened, but I can see how acknowledgment on Dean's part would help at least a bit in helping Linda feel that what she went through was not all for nothing. I feared for her safety in being alone with him, but I understand that she thought he wouldn't admit anything with others around.
In my opinion, there are other elements of this story that have trivialized rape much more than Linda's actions on Tuesday's episode. YMMV.
I completely disagree. As I've already said, Linda bravely confronting Dean is massively positive and a very empowering thing. I'd rather see this any day than see her a cowering wreck or see Mick and Lee sorting Dean out for her. It showed what Dean is, powerless if you take you take his supposed power away from him. I loved it :cool:
Once again whoosh.
Did you understand the point I was making in any way shape or form?
I have said nothing so far about that particular scene...
My replies have concerned the way the whole rape storyline was handled and why I felt people were unhappy with it.
I haven't lost sympathy for Linda. She has done nothing wrong.
I can't see why all the repetitive Shirley/Mick/Dean stuff should make someone lose sympathy for Linda. The story is instantly better whenever it focuses on her.
I like Shirley and Mick but I think it's time to move their current role in this storyline on.
What happened to the dress and knickers that Linda was wearing when he raped her? I remember them pushed into the back of the wardrobe, did she get rid or are they still there?
Can I make it abundantly clear that I have never in any post or in any way suggested or expressed that I have lost sympathy for Linda as a rape victim. I was talking about Linda, the character - prior to the rape, not Linda - the victim of rape and my post my taken out of context by another user.
Comments
I agree. Rape is an important issue but this has been handled really badly.
As Shirley is a long term character, I did expect more from the parentage reveal, it is a huge part of her history and it was completely sidelined, the reveal was accepted by the family unbelievably quickly.
I agree 're sensationalism, they do seem to have a habit of overegging which consequently damages characters in the process. A cot death would have been enough without a baby swap and the rape would have been enough without Dean's involvement or a 'who's the daddy'.
I may be wrong ( a likely scenario ;-) ) but I think this is the thing that is causing so much debate amongst EE viewers. The fact that Dean isn't your average soap villian, completely obvious and an unpopular character....
I mean, would we be even having a debate like this had it been Willmot Brown right now?
Exploring mental health would be dangerous for EE. The whole nature is so complex, and complicated, that imo they couldn't and wouldn't do it justice, and the sheer magnitude of it, would take months and months to unravel.
And tbh, I have no idea if your mental health can make you rape a woman......I'd just prefer to think of more simplistic reasons.
If it were a real life situation, then I agree, almost certainly Linda and family woudn't still be on the square. I know I wouldn't be!
I'm not in favour of the actor leaving the soap, but I know that in order for him to stay, he'll have to be redeemed, and how I don't know.
The satisfying revenge, I have no idea of what they've got planned. It can't be another set to with Mick. We've had about two of those to date I think....
I had thought that she was going to record evidence on her mobile, but that didn't happen last night.
But on a lighter note........................Seeing him last night, I may well change my mind about killing him off........I mean, did you see the state of his beard
And let's not talk about the haircut
I don't understand where you got this impression from
The show could of course have done things differently and been unrealistic and have Dean charged and convicted with rape but they went down a realistic route and this didn't happen.
As for Linda, she's in a dreadful and some might say ridiculous predicament whereby her attacker is a family member and for soap purposes the drama always has to be maintained so she can't leave and Dean can't leave so it just keeps going with Shirley, very realistically for her, keeping fanning the flames.
However I do actually think Linda confronting Dean and trying to get him to admit to what he did was realistic in that there really was nothing else left for her to do and it was actually really empowering for Linda the character and also positive for us the viewers as, if and when Dean does admit what he's done It will be closure for all of us :cool:
They can not redeem Dean raping Linda. This storyline has to end and Dean has to move away from the square. If keeping him on screen means they'll have to film prison scenes then fine so be it. But I will not be made to pity him and forgive him.
I'm giving it until summer. If there is no indication Dean will be leaving the square then I will be starting a campaign/petition.
But as for that lighter note I think Matt di Angelo is so much hotter with the rugged look. Looks much more like a trendy stylist.
Matt is still filming, so that means he will still be on screen around July, doesn't it? I hope Dean's eventual departure doesn't result in an exit for Buster. I would like to get to know him as a character in his own right and with Shirley, without Dean.
Shoot me if I ever take it this seriously ;-)
Has anyone considered this could be an experiment to keep in a 'good looking' (to some) or popular character to see how far they can push him before he becomes hated???
I personally think it was the wrong thing for the writers to show, a rape victim speaking to her rapist, alone.I get the sentiment of Linda needing closure and wanting Dean to admit it but realistically that could be dangerous situation and I don't think it sent out the best message on those grounds, for real life victims.
Me too!
I wouldn't be surprised!
Do you not understand how some could see Linda's actions and words as "Admit you raped me and we'll say no more about it".
Rape is a HUGE thing. I feel like with every Carter episode that goes by the subject of rape is being trivialised more and more
And this is what I think a lot of posters are not getting. I can't speak for the OP but I am sure most of us are not against Linda, it's the writers of the plot that are the issue and most of what has been expressed here and on other threads is just that, annoyance that such a serious issue has been written with seemingly little care and gaping flaws.
Well said!
Don't get me wrong, if Matt di Angelo asked to come round for the night - I'd be getting the glitterball and the satin sheets out. But I would never let my opinion for Matt di Angelo's face get in the way of my opinion on Dean!
As far as the beard and the state of his hair goes, they are obvious effects of having spent time in prison. It won't take him long to be well groomed again.
BIB _ I agree.
It would be challenging to explore mental health but some criminals are mentally ill and sadly they have usually already committed a crime before their mental health issues can be addressed and dealt with.
As for mental health issues causing rape - I don't think it causes the actual rape but sometimes the reasons why a person may commit rape can be delusional reasons or stem from mental health/personality problems.
I completely disagree. As I've already said, Linda bravely confronting Dean is massively positive and a very empowering thing. I'd rather see this any day than see her a cowering wreck or see Mick and Lee sorting Dean out for her. It showed what Dean is, powerless if you take you take his supposed power away from him. I loved it :cool:
I disagree. If Dean went through prison and rehabilitation and eventually showed guilt and remorse then he would be able to redeem himself imo.
I absolutely agree! I don't think anybody is doubting the sentiment of what Linda did. She took the power away from Dean and almost reduced him to tears. It's just that this happened in his living room - while they were alone - the day he's been released from prison. I would have much rathered her have do this in a different way at a different time.
No, he can't. He will always be "that guy who raped Linda".
People have to learn to look beyond that. Yes, prison and rehabilitation won't change what Dean did but viewers/posters/characters would still have the satisfaction of him being punished for what he did if he went to prison. By your logic;
Ronnie will always be the person who stole Kat and Alfie's baby.
Ben will always be the person who killed Heather.
Stacey will always be the person who killed Archie.
Tony Gordon will always be the man who had Liam killed despite the fact that he showed guilt and remorse and fell in love with Maria.
John Stape will always be the man who killed Charlotte and Joy
And the list just goes on and on.
The past cannot be changed but criminals can pay for their crimes, learn from their mistakes and become productive members of society.
Because Dean had been released and her case is not being pursued by CPS, I believe Linda thought this was her only way to achieve any type of closure. I think Linda was being sadly realistic given her situation. There was no legal way she could prevent him from living near her. As the owner of the Vic, she could bar him from entering, but that's probably about it. Having her rapist admit to her face wouldn't erase what happened, but I can see how acknowledgment on Dean's part would help at least a bit in helping Linda feel that what she went through was not all for nothing. I feared for her safety in being alone with him, but I understand that she thought he wouldn't admit anything with others around.
In my opinion, there are other elements of this story that have trivialized rape much more than Linda's actions on Tuesday's episode. YMMV.
Once again whoosh.
Did you understand the point I was making in any way shape or form?
I have said nothing so far about that particular scene...
My replies have concerned the way the whole rape storyline was handled and why I felt people were unhappy with it.
I can't see why all the repetitive Shirley/Mick/Dean stuff should make someone lose sympathy for Linda. The story is instantly better whenever it focuses on her.
I like Shirley and Mick but I think it's time to move their current role in this storyline on.
She threw them in the bin.
I completely agree. I don't see him as redeemable.