There is little point in posting responses to those who label companies and services as sh**!
There are many millions in this case that seem to be more than happy with what they are paying for which seems to be a huge annoyance for some on here who promote a rival network. The anti-O2 threads and posts will doubtless continue as that seems to have become a personal crusade but it is a minority opinion when considered in context of the number of satisfied customers using the services daily and the recent performance of the company retaining and attracting subscribers.
So ignore the other comments but you cannot ignore the continued fall in revenue. Qtr after Qtr of reducing revenues has to mean that investment will reduce as well, simple economics says that to make a capital investment you need too be generating capital growth
I thought I would add my tuppence worth here from a personal perspective. I live in the East of Scotland. My husband and I and my 2 sons were all on o2 and perfectly happy with the coverage on our old phones. When we all upgraded to smartphones a couple of years ago the lack of 3g coverage here was glaringly obvious. At contract renewal the situation was no better, still no 3g or even edge just gprs so we have all moved networks. That's 4 customers lost here and o2 didn't even try to keep us. When I phoned to cancel the rep asked why we were leaving. As soon as I said the lack of 3g coverage here (even when out and about in the nearest large town) he said that's fine I'll process your cancellation so they are aware they can't compete on that level. They obviously have no intentions of rolling it out to less profitable rural areas, even though I live in a village which is only 4 miles from a large town!
I thought I would add my tuppence worth here from a personal perspective. I live in the East of Scotland. My husband and I and my 2 sons were all on o2 and perfectly happy with the coverage on our old phones. When we all upgraded to smartphones a couple of years ago the lack of 3g coverage here was glaringly obvious. At contract renewal the situation was no better, still no 3g or even edge just gprs so we have all moved networks. That's 4 customers lost here and o2 didn't even try to keep us. When I phoned to cancel the rep asked why we were leaving. As soon as I said the lack of 3g coverage here (even when out and about in the nearest large town) he said that's fine I'll process your cancellation so they are aware they can't compete on that level. They obviously have no intentions of rolling it out to less profitable rural areas, even though I live in a village which is only 4 miles from a large town!
When I was out yesterday I visited a few towns. Here is my experience of just one day on O2.
I was in Ardrossan (a medium sized costal town) which the town centre had some decent 3G coverage. I went along the coast a bit to the north approximately 1 mile out of town. You can see the town from where I was clearly but no 3G coverage. Just GPRS which in this day and age is useless!
Next location was Lochwinnoch (small town off the Glasgow commuter belt with some nature reserves so popular with tourists) no 3G coverage what so ever!
I live 1 mile outside a big town and no 3G coverage.
If you are travelling up the east cost to Aberdeen you will find there is no 3G coverage for most of the journey so take a book.
O2 have planned their coverage so it only just covers major towns with limited to no overspill outside the town limits. Honestly its just like a switch as soon as you leave town forget it :mad:
I dont use the internet much on my phone but when I do im often annoyed that O2 just couldnt be botherd.
Ofcom will have targets on 4G coverage as they did with 3G and no surprise Ofcom had to give O2 a warning. It will be even stricter on 4G so maybe O2 shouldn't bother bidding for the licence if they cant be bothered to invest in coverage.
Interestingly as of June 2014 all networks will be able to re-use their 3G spectrum on 2100Mhz for 4G instead and not be bound by coverage targets so maybe O2 will do that instead :eek:
I thought I would add my tuppence worth here from a personal perspective. I live in the East of Scotland. My husband and I and my 2 sons were all on o2 and perfectly happy with the coverage on our old phones. When we all upgraded to smartphones a couple of years ago the lack of 3g coverage here was glaringly obvious. At contract renewal the situation was no better, still no 3g or even edge just gprs so we have all moved networks. That's 4 customers lost here and o2 didn't even try to keep us. When I phoned to cancel the rep asked why we were leaving. As soon as I said the lack of 3g coverage here (even when out and about in the nearest large town) he said that's fine I'll process your cancellation so they are aware they can't compete on that level. They obviously have no intentions of rolling it out to less profitable rural areas, even though I live in a village which is only 4 miles from a large town!
An interesting account and I have no doubt that at the time it could have been the case but O2 have been increasing their coverage so it may be different now. That said we have to accept that not all networks have the same business strategy. O2 don't seem to have suffered as a result of their focus on delivering to the maximum number of people in the smallest geographic area. They have not lost millions of customers and perhaps if they had they would have changed their strategy and invested in greater coverage. From a business perspective they have made some good decisions that have produced good results in a very competitive market. With others now offering greater geographic coverage and 4G the strategy has changed. Investment in 900MHz UMTS and the latest DC-HSPA has been happening for a while and geographic coverage has increased. The network share with Vodafone promises faster extension of coverage and a very speedy rollout of 4G across the UK. Some here will belittle everything O2 does but it remains the UK's single most successful mobile network if you exclude the merger of Orange and T-Mobile into EE. With the penetration of smartphones and the increased demands of customers O2 and all the networks will have to invest and deliver to retain their customers and I have confidence that those running the O2 business in the UK are well aware of that.
In theory Vodafone and O2 should have far superior networks in future as the only two networks with 3G on 900 and 4G on 800 vodafone then have an additional advantage over everyone having just spent £1bn buying the UK s 2 nd largest fibre network to provide all the backhaul capacity they could need
In theory Vodafone and O2 should have far superior networks in future as the only two networks with 3G on 900 and 4G on 800 vodafone then have an additional advantage over everyone having just spent £1bn buying the UK s 2 nd largest fibre network to provide all the backhaul capacity they could need
Indeed and they also plan on having more base stations than MBNL once both have consolidated their network transmission arrangements. Vodafone and O2 will not achieve their network sharing for a few years but will share 4G sites from the outset.
In theory Vodafone and O2 should have far superior networks in future as the only two networks with 3G on 900 and 4G on 800 vodafone then have an additional advantage over everyone having just spent £1bn buying the UK s 2 nd largest fibre network to provide all the backhaul capacity they could need
Owning your own backhaul company or using somebody else's doesn't make much difference, except in the case of C&W they bought a struggling company that will take investment to get into shape.
There's other backhaul providers out there like Virgin business and BT that will provide services without owning the company. Might it give them more margin? yes, but that's about all.
Being very much in control of your backhaul and traffic management is a massive benefit, no other network can compete with this level of service.
Vodafone from my experiences there is a well managed business and I noticed they immediately installed their own people into C&W they'll have that company turned and integrated into the wider vodafone company very quickly.
Being very much in control of your backhaul and traffic management is a massive benefit, no other network can compete with this level of service.
Vodafone from my experiences there is a well managed business and I noticed they immediately installed their own people into C&W they'll have that company turned and integrated into the wider vodafone company very quickly.
Dude it's just fibre backbone, you can put what you want down it and buy what size pipes you want on the wholesale market.
Dude I have over a decade of experience in network optimisation across the industry, I can assure you that vodafone are in an envious position now, I'm very good friends with a senior manager in another networks optimisation function and I know his view is that they would love to have the control vodafone now possess
I think you are over stating it, there's a healthy wholesale market for this kind of thing, the likes of MBNL have signed multi-million pounds deals with BT and Virgin, whilst they don't own the company they are getting the same thing. As I say, yes there would potentially be more margin in operating your own, but aside from that I don't think it's going to make a massive difference, we'll still see sites connected with some amazing backhaul whether you own the company or buy it from another.
I think owning your own fibre network across the UK does make a huge difference both in terms of planning and cost. A provider that has control over all of it's infrastructure has some advantages but those probably cost more in the short to medium term. Having control over your entire network performance must be a considerable advantage in comparison to buying services wholesale even with strict service level agreements.
As ever what amounts to an advantage depends on who owns it in the opinion of some!
I think owning your own fibre network across the UK does make a huge difference.
As ever what amounts to an advantage depends on who owns it in the opinion of some!
You don't have to own it, buying it on the wholesale market gives you the same level of backhaul if you pay for it. There are operating costs for C&W too, which Vodafone will have to internally pay for, so as I say I believe the benefits to be mostly that it's slightly cheaper for them, they might have a bit more control, but it's not going to make a great deal of difference at the point of use or performance on the network as competitors have virtually the same access via the wholesale market, only in the case of MBNL 2x backhaul providers instead of 1.
Just one advantage will be that they can move capacity around the network at will, other networks will not be able to react with the same speed.
Additionally it's a fixed cost to them now, if they need an extra 50mb off traffic to a cell site they can deliver it over night at no extra cost, the rivals would have to buy that additional capacity and that's when accountants get involved and stop such upgrading.
It's quite incredulous that you would believe their is no technology advantages to owning your own fibre network. Of course though had three purchased. C&W we'd all be told how amazingly awesome three are and we should ignore their very poor customer service record
Just one advantage will be that they can move capacity around the network at will, other networks will not be able to react with the same speed.
Wrong, when you buy backhaul you but the size of the pipe, what data you put down it will be the network, they can still do that. You can also just call the provider and increase the size at will fairly easily if you need to, although good capacity planning means you shouldn't need to, and every network has a capacity planning team.
Yes I know I've worked in the majority of the networks optimisation and planning teams, I can tell you for certain if I was still working in that field id want what vodafone now have, friends across the industry that are still in this field tell me that vodafone have a very real advantage.
I'm inclined to believe them over you and your persistent pro three agenda.
Back on topic though O2 are struggling to slow their revenue decline
Yes I know I've worked in the majority of the networks optimisation and planning teams, I can tell you for certain if I was still working in that field id want what vodafone now have, friends across the industry that are still in this field tell me that vodafone have a very real advantage.
I'm inclined to believe them over you and your persistent pro three agenda.
Back on topic though O2 are struggling to slow their revenue decline
I see you've decided to take a few 'digs' rather than argue on the technical detail, did you get my PM? I'm, not saying that there aren't benefits. I'm saying that connectivity wise everything can still be purchased on the wholesale market, and that there is a cost to Vodafone for C&W services internally as well. So yes benefits, but they shouldn't be that over stated as it's all stuff that competitors have bought via wholesale for millions.
Slightly more control - yes, but when you pay millions to a company for access you are also given a lot of control and flexibility.
Slightly better margins - yes, but bear in mind Cable and Wireless wasn't performing well when VF bought it and it'll cost money to get it in shape too, although in the long term it could be a good buy.
"An interesting account and I have no doubt that at the time it could have been the case but O2 have been increasing their coverage so it may be different now"
Nope....no different now. I'm talking about February this year when we changed over. When my friends and family come to visit with their o2 phones they constantly complain about the lack of coverage even in the town centre....
Comments
There are many millions in this case that seem to be more than happy with what they are paying for which seems to be a huge annoyance for some on here who promote a rival network. The anti-O2 threads and posts will doubtless continue as that seems to have become a personal crusade but it is a minority opinion when considered in context of the number of satisfied customers using the services daily and the recent performance of the company retaining and attracting subscribers.
When I was out yesterday I visited a few towns. Here is my experience of just one day on O2.
I was in Ardrossan (a medium sized costal town) which the town centre had some decent 3G coverage. I went along the coast a bit to the north approximately 1 mile out of town. You can see the town from where I was clearly but no 3G coverage. Just GPRS which in this day and age is useless!
Next location was Lochwinnoch (small town off the Glasgow commuter belt with some nature reserves so popular with tourists) no 3G coverage what so ever!
I live 1 mile outside a big town and no 3G coverage.
If you are travelling up the east cost to Aberdeen you will find there is no 3G coverage for most of the journey so take a book.
O2 have planned their coverage so it only just covers major towns with limited to no overspill outside the town limits. Honestly its just like a switch as soon as you leave town forget it :mad:
I dont use the internet much on my phone but when I do im often annoyed that O2 just couldnt be botherd.
Ofcom will have targets on 4G coverage as they did with 3G and no surprise Ofcom had to give O2 a warning. It will be even stricter on 4G so maybe O2 shouldn't bother bidding for the licence if they cant be bothered to invest in coverage.
Interestingly as of June 2014 all networks will be able to re-use their 3G spectrum on 2100Mhz for 4G instead and not be bound by coverage targets so maybe O2 will do that instead :eek:
An interesting account and I have no doubt that at the time it could have been the case but O2 have been increasing their coverage so it may be different now. That said we have to accept that not all networks have the same business strategy. O2 don't seem to have suffered as a result of their focus on delivering to the maximum number of people in the smallest geographic area. They have not lost millions of customers and perhaps if they had they would have changed their strategy and invested in greater coverage. From a business perspective they have made some good decisions that have produced good results in a very competitive market. With others now offering greater geographic coverage and 4G the strategy has changed. Investment in 900MHz UMTS and the latest DC-HSPA has been happening for a while and geographic coverage has increased. The network share with Vodafone promises faster extension of coverage and a very speedy rollout of 4G across the UK. Some here will belittle everything O2 does but it remains the UK's single most successful mobile network if you exclude the merger of Orange and T-Mobile into EE. With the penetration of smartphones and the increased demands of customers O2 and all the networks will have to invest and deliver to retain their customers and I have confidence that those running the O2 business in the UK are well aware of that.
Indeed and they also plan on having more base stations than MBNL once both have consolidated their network transmission arrangements. Vodafone and O2 will not achieve their network sharing for a few years but will share 4G sites from the outset.
Owning your own backhaul company or using somebody else's doesn't make much difference, except in the case of C&W they bought a struggling company that will take investment to get into shape.
There's other backhaul providers out there like Virgin business and BT that will provide services without owning the company. Might it give them more margin? yes, but that's about all.
Vodafone from my experiences there is a well managed business and I noticed they immediately installed their own people into C&W they'll have that company turned and integrated into the wider vodafone company very quickly.
Dude it's just fibre backbone, you can put what you want down it and buy what size pipes you want on the wholesale market.
As ever what amounts to an advantage depends on who owns it in the opinion of some!
You don't have to own it, buying it on the wholesale market gives you the same level of backhaul if you pay for it. There are operating costs for C&W too, which Vodafone will have to internally pay for, so as I say I believe the benefits to be mostly that it's slightly cheaper for them, they might have a bit more control, but it's not going to make a great deal of difference at the point of use or performance on the network as competitors have virtually the same access via the wholesale market, only in the case of MBNL 2x backhaul providers instead of 1.
Additionally it's a fixed cost to them now, if they need an extra 50mb off traffic to a cell site they can deliver it over night at no extra cost, the rivals would have to buy that additional capacity and that's when accountants get involved and stop such upgrading.
It's quite incredulous that you would believe their is no technology advantages to owning your own fibre network. Of course though had three purchased. C&W we'd all be told how amazingly awesome three are and we should ignore their very poor customer service record
Wrong, when you buy backhaul you but the size of the pipe, what data you put down it will be the network, they can still do that. You can also just call the provider and increase the size at will fairly easily if you need to, although good capacity planning means you shouldn't need to, and every network has a capacity planning team.
I'm inclined to believe them over you and your persistent pro three agenda.
Back on topic though O2 are struggling to slow their revenue decline
I see you've decided to take a few 'digs' rather than argue on the technical detail, did you get my PM? I'm, not saying that there aren't benefits. I'm saying that connectivity wise everything can still be purchased on the wholesale market, and that there is a cost to Vodafone for C&W services internally as well. So yes benefits, but they shouldn't be that over stated as it's all stuff that competitors have bought via wholesale for millions.
Slightly more control - yes, but when you pay millions to a company for access you are also given a lot of control and flexibility.
Slightly better margins - yes, but bear in mind Cable and Wireless wasn't performing well when VF bought it and it'll cost money to get it in shape too, although in the long term it could be a good buy.
Nope....no different now. I'm talking about February this year when we changed over. When my friends and family come to visit with their o2 phones they constantly complain about the lack of coverage even in the town centre....