Another 10 posts and we nearly got back on topic, guys lets take dephanix's advice and just ignore the blatant baiting attempts from a single member to wind everyone up. Lets move on.
I'd like to hear from anyone who has tested 3's DC with a compatible device in an upgraded area.
There is a very useful 'ignore' facility which can be used to filter posts from individual contributors.
I thought that you'd been using that 'Ignore' button on posts that you couldn't be bothered to answer because they were derogatory towards O2, but there you go...
I thought that you'd been using that 'Ignore' button on posts that you couldn't be bothered to answer because they were derogatory towards O2, but there you go...
After several attempts, including one by myself, this thread was asked to return to discussion about the latest technology being installed by 3. Some posts from users about results using DC-HSPA would be good rather than further focus on previous off-topic discussion.
Another 10 posts and we nearly got back on topic, guys lets take dephanix's advice and just ignore the blatant baiting attempts from a single member to wind everyone up. Lets move on.
I'd like to hear from anyone who has tested 3's DC with a compatible device in an upgraded area.
I did post a couple of pages back, but unfortunately it got buried in the argument.
At my work, indoors, 1-2 bars of signal I've gone from averaging 9Mbps up to around 18Mbps. The fastest I've seen was 19.89 download. Upload speed hasn't really changed, but the download is much better.
I did post a couple of pages back, but unfortunately it got buried in the argument.
At my work, indoors, 1-2 bars of signal I've gone from averaging 9Mbps up to around 18Mbps. The fastest I've seen was 19.89 download. Upload speed hasn't really changed, but the download is much better.
Wow, very cool! that's almost in EE's LTE territory. what device grumpy?
I've heard that in certain train stations in London they have lots of picos and speeds are very fast. I think I read on here that Victoria has them.
Incidentally contrary to what has been posted here it doesn't connect to 2 different cell sites, just 2 cells on the same site, you get 2x5 in adjacent frequencies to give you double the bandwidth in the air. I think for that reason it's a hardware upgrade as the actual cells need to be upgraded to have 2 cells inside the same unit for each macrocell.
It's very clever stuff, I just wish the device makers would keep up. There's the Nexus 4, the iPhone 5 and 1 dongle, not sure what else. I know sadly the S3 (original) I have doesn't support it.
Is there any likelihood that DC-H (can't be bothered to write the whole lot now, although I realise that I've wasted more time telling you that than just writing it out ) will become the 'lowest' level of 3G in a couple of years on Three/EE, in the same way that HSPA+ will be the 'lowest' level of 3G on EE by the end of next year, and also on Three at some point soon?
Hope so, as it's pretty nifty by the sounds of it.
Is there any likelihood that DC-H (can't be bothered to write the whole lot now, although I realise that I've wasted more time telling you that than just writing it out ) will become the 'lowest' level of 3G in a couple of years on Three/EE, in the same way that HSPA+ will be the 'lowest' level of 3G on EE by the end of next year, and also on Three at some point soon?
Hope so, as it's pretty nifty by the sounds of it.
It's completely backward compatible, it has a primary and secondary cell inside each macro unit and HSPA+ or below users can still connect to either, it's just if you have DC it'll connect to the primary and use the spectrum from the secondary and give you twice the bandwidth.
I would hope they will make it the minimum and upgrade everywhere yes. I'm definitely going for LTE when it launches though. I'm going to upgrade handset and go for it as I want to be an early adopter for LTE, on the condition that they win spectrum. I don't want it at 1800 Mhz, I want it on the proper LTE frequencies. I will change provider if they don't get the proper LTE spectrum they need, but I'm sure they will.
DC will be a great fallback though if LTE isn't available. You might even find 3 do VOLTE seeing as they don't have a 2G network, they would benefit a lot from doing that. The S3 LTE was the first handset to support VOLTE, as more do I think the operators will start deploying it.
I haven't gone for LTE yet. Mainly because it'd be too expensive for me to buy out the remaining nine months of my contract. Plus, if EE win some spectrum, I don't want to have a phone that won't support it for the remaining bit of a new contract if I upgraded now.
When I do, I'd like a phone that supports all possible frequencies from the outset. No doubt when my upgrade comes around, there'll be a fair few on the market to choose from.
When I do, I'd like a phone that supports all possible frequencies from the outset. No doubt when my upgrade comes around, there'll be a fair few on the market to choose from.
That is the reason that tomorrow i'll be handing mine back. Great to test it out in 3 cities but for now i'm not wanting a 24m contract in such early days.
I haven't gone for LTE yet. Mainly because it'd be too expensive for me to buy out the remaining nine months of my contract. Plus, if EE win some spectrum, I don't want to have a phone that won't support it for the remaining bit of a new contract if I upgraded now.
When I do, I'd like a phone that supports all possible frequencies from the outset. No doubt when my upgrade comes around, there'll be a fair few on the market to choose from.
Exactly, same here. I'd want a phone that I can use on various networks as I'll probably try and test others too if that's possible PAYG?! It's too early days, expensive, limited plans, single operator. Next summer I think will be the best time to decide.
Exactly, same here. I'd want a phone that I can use on various networks as I'll probably try and test others too if that's possible PAYG?! It's too early days, expensive, limited plans, single operators. Next summer I think will be the best time to decide.
Indeed. I'm happy with my 3G at the moment anyway. I get 2GB included with my plan for £32/month (loyalty discount + U24 for the extra data) with speeds of around 3-7Mbps depending on the time of day. It's unspectacular, but I can stream a bit of iPlayer Radio without any interruptions when walking the dog. (yes, I'm easily pleased). It goes upto around 5-10Mbps when I go into Cardiff, and it's always solid.
I'll let the networks squabble amongst themselves for spectrum, see who offers what in August, and choose something relevant to me.
I suspect EE's plans will be a bit more generous by then. I wonder if those limited data plans were part of an agreement that all the networks reached to prevent legal action and allow EE to launch. Or, maybe that's just my own conspiracy.
By the way, you know how we talk now about remember when we had floppy disks etc, or remember when we had to use VHS. we'll be saying in 5 to 10 years remember when phones sounded rubbish.
VOLTE will have double the voice frequency of 3D. An HD audio codec that basically means you receive high quality voice calls that are said to be equal to having a direct chat with someone else in person.
Imagine that..
Apparently with VoLTE there is no need to download another application for a calling service, and as such apparently users wont suffer from problems that arise form changes in network environment including call misconnections and call connection delays.
Verizon is launching it in 2013 in the US and I hope the UK networks implement it from day one.
Haha, great thread... a good 20 minutes entertainment there
From what I've read EE will be using Circuit Switched Fall Back initially.
As Thine said VoLTE doesn't require an app but it does require a handset that supports it in hardware. iPhone 5 doesn't, Galaxy S3 LTE does!
Not sure CSFB will drain the battery more. I said initially that the LTE toggle being on made my battery drain faster but now I'm not so sure. I may have just thought it was. Had it turned on for a while and it seems I was wrong.
I think the main drawback is longer call connection time. Has anyone using LTE experienced this?
CSFB is a battery drain as it constantly has to monitor for 2G or 3G when on LTE in case a call comes through. Then has to drop the LTE and negotiate with the 2G/3G mast then accept the call. It's one of the biggest reasons right now that LTE eats more battery having the phone lock on to 3G or 2G currently.
LTE toggle has no effect on a sim that is not provisioned for LTE/4G as it will not look for it.
CSFB is a battery drain as it constantly has to monitor for 2G or 3G when on LTE in case a call comes through. Then has to drop the LTE and negotiate with the 2G/3G mast then accept the call. It's one of the biggest reasons right now that LTE eats more battery having the phone lock on to 3G or 2G currently.
LTE toggle has no effect on a sim that is not provisioned for LTE/4G as it will not look for it.
Ahh, but I do have an EE4G SIM. Turned toggle on so phone is now constantly searching for a on-existent LTE signal. Doesn't seem to affect battery at all.
Have a look at this http://www.disruptive-analysis.com/Disruptive%20Analysis%20-%20Limitations%20of%20CS%20Fallback.pdf
It is a few years old but does explain a fair bit about how CSFB works. I'm a bit confused to be honest.
It seems that CSFB handsets do not in fact run both radios at the same time. It explains that outgoing call connections can take anything up to 6 extra seconds to set up. This is because if your phone is on LTE and you go to make a call, the handset has to then search for and connect to a 2G or 3G network before setting up the call.
This is one of the disadvantages of CSFB. However what I'm not clear on is incoming calls. If the handset is only connected to LTE, how does the network signal to the handset that there is an incoming call?
Is the signalling done via the LTE side causing the handset to fall back thereby picking up the call?
Ok, just found the answer. Also CSFB doesn't use two radios at once hence why my battery isn't affected.
For outgoing calls the phone obviously knows I'm making a call so falls back to 2G/3G with all the time delays this takes.
For incoming calls (while the handset is connected to LTE) the LTE network pages the handset to tell it to fall back to accept the incoming call. Probably why the MSCs have to be upgraded/modified.
See this http://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/circuit-switched-fallback-the-first-phase-of-voice-evolution-for-mobile-lte-devices.pdf
This explains the incoming call bit "With circuit-switched fallback, when the user’s device is operating in LTE (data connection) mode and a call comes in, the LTE network pages the device. The device responds with a special service request message to the network, and the network signals the device to move (fall back) to 2G/3G to accept the incoming call. Similarly for outgoing calls, the same special service request is used to move the device to 2G/3G to place the outgoing call."
Ok I'll give you that
In fact you didn't say the phone connects to both at once, that was me reading it wrong.
Surely though the amount of battery drain is governed by how well the tech in the handset handles the switching. Also do you know if its any different from switching between 2G and 3G for example. Current handsets do this all the time. Well mine doesn't, it says on 3G most of the time but other networks we know about probably do. Down here an O2 handset (this is not a dig at you Wave:-) would be constantly switching.
Is there any evidence of battery drain yet from EE users?
Also what's the extra call connect time like?
Comments
I'd like to hear from anyone who has tested 3's DC with a compatible device in an upgraded area.
After several attempts, including one by myself, this thread was asked to return to discussion about the latest technology being installed by 3. Some posts from users about results using DC-HSPA would be good rather than further focus on previous off-topic discussion.
At my work, indoors, 1-2 bars of signal I've gone from averaging 9Mbps up to around 18Mbps. The fastest I've seen was 19.89 download. Upload speed hasn't really changed, but the download is much better.
Wow, very cool! that's almost in EE's LTE territory. what device grumpy?
I've heard that in certain train stations in London they have lots of picos and speeds are very fast. I think I read on here that Victoria has them.
Incidentally contrary to what has been posted here it doesn't connect to 2 different cell sites, just 2 cells on the same site, you get 2x5 in adjacent frequencies to give you double the bandwidth in the air. I think for that reason it's a hardware upgrade as the actual cells need to be upgraded to have 2 cells inside the same unit for each macrocell.
It's very clever stuff, I just wish the device makers would keep up. There's the Nexus 4, the iPhone 5 and 1 dongle, not sure what else. I know sadly the S3 (original) I have doesn't support it.
Hope so, as it's pretty nifty by the sounds of it.
It's completely backward compatible, it has a primary and secondary cell inside each macro unit and HSPA+ or below users can still connect to either, it's just if you have DC it'll connect to the primary and use the spectrum from the secondary and give you twice the bandwidth.
I would hope they will make it the minimum and upgrade everywhere yes. I'm definitely going for LTE when it launches though. I'm going to upgrade handset and go for it as I want to be an early adopter for LTE, on the condition that they win spectrum. I don't want it at 1800 Mhz, I want it on the proper LTE frequencies. I will change provider if they don't get the proper LTE spectrum they need, but I'm sure they will.
DC will be a great fallback though if LTE isn't available. You might even find 3 do VOLTE seeing as they don't have a 2G network, they would benefit a lot from doing that. The S3 LTE was the first handset to support VOLTE, as more do I think the operators will start deploying it.
When I do, I'd like a phone that supports all possible frequencies from the outset. No doubt when my upgrade comes around, there'll be a fair few on the market to choose from.
That is the reason that tomorrow i'll be handing mine back. Great to test it out in 3 cities but for now i'm not wanting a 24m contract in such early days.
Exactly, same here. I'd want a phone that I can use on various networks as I'll probably try and test others too if that's possible PAYG?! It's too early days, expensive, limited plans, single operator. Next summer I think will be the best time to decide.
I'll let the networks squabble amongst themselves for spectrum, see who offers what in August, and choose something relevant to me.
I suspect EE's plans will be a bit more generous by then. I wonder if those limited data plans were part of an agreement that all the networks reached to prevent legal action and allow EE to launch. Or, maybe that's just my own conspiracy.
VOLTE will have double the voice frequency of 3D. An HD audio codec that basically means you receive high quality voice calls that are said to be equal to having a direct chat with someone else in person.
Imagine that..
Apparently with VoLTE there is no need to download another application for a calling service, and as such apparently users wont suffer from problems that arise form changes in network environment including call misconnections and call connection delays.
Verizon is launching it in 2013 in the US and I hope the UK networks implement it from day one.
Me too.. As having to do a CSFB for every call is a massive battery drain..
From what I've read EE will be using Circuit Switched Fall Back initially.
As Thine said VoLTE doesn't require an app but it does require a handset that supports it in hardware. iPhone 5 doesn't, Galaxy S3 LTE does!
Not sure CSFB will drain the battery more. I said initially that the LTE toggle being on made my battery drain faster but now I'm not so sure. I may have just thought it was. Had it turned on for a while and it seems I was wrong.
I think the main drawback is longer call connection time. Has anyone using LTE experienced this?
LTE toggle has no effect on a sim that is not provisioned for LTE/4G as it will not look for it.
Ahh, but I do have an EE4G SIM. Turned toggle on so phone is now constantly searching for a on-existent LTE signal. Doesn't seem to affect battery at all.
Have a look at this http://www.disruptive-analysis.com/Disruptive%20Analysis%20-%20Limitations%20of%20CS%20Fallback.pdf
It is a few years old but does explain a fair bit about how CSFB works. I'm a bit confused to be honest.
It seems that CSFB handsets do not in fact run both radios at the same time. It explains that outgoing call connections can take anything up to 6 extra seconds to set up. This is because if your phone is on LTE and you go to make a call, the handset has to then search for and connect to a 2G or 3G network before setting up the call.
This is one of the disadvantages of CSFB. However what I'm not clear on is incoming calls. If the handset is only connected to LTE, how does the network signal to the handset that there is an incoming call?
Is the signalling done via the LTE side causing the handset to fall back thereby picking up the call?
For outgoing calls the phone obviously knows I'm making a call so falls back to 2G/3G with all the time delays this takes.
For incoming calls (while the handset is connected to LTE) the LTE network pages the handset to tell it to fall back to accept the incoming call. Probably why the MSCs have to be upgraded/modified.
See this http://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/circuit-switched-fallback-the-first-phase-of-voice-evolution-for-mobile-lte-devices.pdf
This explains the incoming call bit "With circuit-switched fallback, when the user’s device is operating in LTE (data connection) mode and a call comes in, the LTE network pages the device. The device responds with a special service request message to the network, and the network signals the device to move (fall back) to 2G/3G to accept the incoming call. Similarly for outgoing calls, the same special service request is used to move the device to 2G/3G to place the outgoing call."
Ok I'll give you that
In fact you didn't say the phone connects to both at once, that was me reading it wrong.
Surely though the amount of battery drain is governed by how well the tech in the handset handles the switching. Also do you know if its any different from switching between 2G and 3G for example. Current handsets do this all the time. Well mine doesn't, it says on 3G most of the time but other networks we know about probably do. Down here an O2 handset (this is not a dig at you Wave:-) would be constantly switching.
Is there any evidence of battery drain yet from EE users?
Also what's the extra call connect time like?