When Macclesfield got the draw in the orginal 3rd round tie, there manager said they were playing for the draw.
The FA Cup is about all the clubs, not just those precious few clubs, who make Europe.
The FA cup managed for years, before Europe come into question.
How about telling those clubs who are in Europe, don't play in domestic cup competitions
Take Blackburn as an example, they could have held on and beat 10 man Manchester City on penalties if there were no replays instead of going out in a predictable one sided replay.
I just really like the FA Cup, the whole watching the draw, and seeing the fixtures come up, im at an age, when the FA Cup was the biggest cup competition, and in my eyes, I would like to see Europan Football.
Why not just have the European Competitions knock out, what do big clubs get out of playing, a team they are gonna thrash.
Man City v Viktoria Plzen for example, what really is the point
I just really like the FA Cup, the whole watching the draw, and seeing the fixtures come up, im at an age, when the FA Cup was the biggest cup competition, and in my eyes, I would like to see Europan Football.
Why not just have the European Competitions knock out, what do big clubs get out of playing, a team they are gonna thrash.
Man City v Viktoria Plzen for example, what really is the point
By that logic what is the point in a PL side playing a lower league side in the FA cup?
I would not want to see replays go. For a small club, going somewhere like St James Park and getting a draw and bringing them back to your own tiny little ground is all part of the cup.
Precisely. If a smaller club is away at a Premier League/Championship side and manages to get a draw, why should said club be denied the chance to play one of the big boys in front of their own fans, even if they do get thrashed in the replay. I repeat my view that FA Cup replays are NOT a problem/inconvienience/cause of fixture congestion, the real problem is the expansion of the European competitions.
Precisely. If a smaller club is away at a Premier League/Championship side and manages to get a draw, why should said club be denied the chance to play one of the big boys in front of their own fans, even if they do get thrashed in the replay. I repeat my view that FA Cup replays are NOT a problem/inconvienience/cause of fixture congestion, the real problem is the expansion of the European competitions.
Thats really not the case though. The FA Cup has been far more devalued by the relegation-threatened teams putting out weakened teams. The big sides can put out a team and rotate their squads and still win. The likes of West Ham and Villa have demonstrated that they cannot and they are not doing it because of European fixture congestion.
There is little doubt, no offence to Wigan, but their presence in this season's Champions League would have been a complete embarrassment.
Their presence in the Europa Cup is also a complete embarrassment. If we continue to send dross like Wigan and Birmingham and middle table Swansea and these get knocked out early, England's co-efficient will fall and eventually we will get fewer CL teams.
My view:
Make the League Cup for Under 23s. No Europa Cup space for the winner of the League Cup but entry into an Under 23s Europa Cup.
Make the FA Cup and League Cup draws seeded based on league ranking - just like tennis at Wimbledon etc. That works fine. That would help generate better matches at the money end of the tournament.
Thats really not the case though. The FA Cup has been far more devalued by the relegation-threatened teams putting out weakened teams. The big sides can put out a team and rotate their squads and still win. The likes of West Ham and Villa have demonstrated that they cannot and they are not doing it because of European fixture congestion.
I don't think it has been devalued more by the teams at the bottom of the league compared to the top teams. All teams have devalued it equally because they are all doing the same thing and that's fielding a weakened side. It's just the top teams get away with it because, as you say, their second string will still win. Everyone has the same attitude regardless of the league position, which is that they think there are more important priorities.
I don't think it has been devalued more by the teams at the bottom of the league compared to the top teams. All teams have devalued it equally because they are all doing the same thing and that's fielding a weakened side. It's just the top teams get away with it because, as you say, their second string will still win. Everyone has the same attitude regardless of the league position, which is that they think there are more important priorities.
But surely you are vindicated if you are winning? If City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea put out other members of their squads and still win how can anyone possibly complain? These sides have 20+ guys to choose from who can all do a job. Personally i believe any club should be able to pick whatever team they want but in the whole "lets find someone to blame" scenario i find it more of a shame that the clubs who aren't going to be winning the league or competing for the CL or indeed playing in Europe aren't taking the domestic cups seriously. I don't really understand that although i respect their right to do it.
To give a stark example City rotated their team and put 5 past a Championship team. West Ham rotated their squad and lost 5 to a Championship team. Thats the difference. City are looking for 4 trophies, West Ham aren't.
Their presence in the Europa Cup is also a complete embarrassment. If we continue to send dross like Wigan and Birmingham and middle table Swansea and these get knocked out early, England's co-efficient will fall and eventually we will get fewer CL teams.
My view:
Make the League Cup for Under 23s. No Europa Cup space for the winner of the League Cup but entry into an Under 23s Europa Cup.
Make the FA Cup and League Cup draws seeded based on league ranking - just like tennis at Wimbledon etc. That works fine. That would help generate better matches at the money end of the tournament.
Have to disagree about seeding. The total lottery that can see two big teams drawn together in R3 is part of the cup, as is the small team who gets through to R4 or so and hopes to meet one of the big teams. A small team can get a good cup run by avoiding big teams until very late on.
Also with the League cup being U23s - many lower league teams would be pushed to field a team of U23s, and would end up resorting to youth team players, probably U16 at least to make up the numbers.
Have to disagree about seeding. The total lottery that can see two big teams drawn together in R3 is part of the cup, as is the small team who gets through to R4 or so and hopes to meet one of the big teams. A small team can get a good cup run by avoiding big teams until very late on.
Also with the League cup being U23s - many lower league teams would be pushed to field a team of U23s, and would end up resorting to youth team players, probably U16 at least to make up the numbers.
the fa cup draw IS already seeded albeit on a regional basis in the qualifying rounds.
the fact that ANY team allowed to enter the draw can play anyone is part of the charm of the game - its every other cup that should be dropped. one cup is enough
I am interested though - I have a copy of the form to enter a team into the 'FA challenge cup' presumably if those lower placed sides in the PL were that bothered they could simply not fill it in and send it back? or are the PL lot tied into playing as a prerequisite of being in the PL [i presume there is a similar form for the LC???
Their presence in the Europa Cup is also a complete embarrassment. If we continue to send dross like Wigan and Birmingham and middle table Swansea and these get knocked out early, England's co-efficient will fall and eventually we will get fewer CL teams.
My view:
Make the League Cup for Under 23s. No Europa Cup space for the winner of the League Cup but entry into an Under 23s Europa Cup.
Make the FA Cup and League Cup draws seeded based on league ranking - just like tennis at Wimbledon etc. That works fine. That would help generate better matches at the money end of the tournament.
But that's the beauty of knockout football. Anything can happen on the day, the big sides can take each other out in the early rounds and a smaller side can cause one or two upsets and (shock horror)! win a trophy for once. Seeding the draw just destroys that beauty and unpredictability. No doubt if our co-efficient did fall you'd be screaming that it's all Wigan's fault for actually daring to go out and win a trophy rather than letting the big boys have it all their own way for once.
I think seeding the FA cup draw is an idea well worth considering. It would mean the lowest ranked sides would get a chance to play the big teams and perhaps get a big payday if their game is chosen for TV.
The draw would be simple. Two pots (one for seeded teams and another for unseeded). In the first match drawn, the seeded team would be at home, and the second match drawn the seeded team would be away, with that sequence alternating through the draw.
I think seeding the FA cup draw is an idea well worth considering. It would mean the lowest ranked sides would get a chance to play the big teams and perhaps get a big payday if their game is chosen for TV.
The draw would be simple. Two pots (one for seeded teams and another for unseeded). In the first match drawn, the seeded team would be at home, and the second match drawn the seeded team would be away, with that sequence alternating through the draw.
I disagree one of the best things about the draw especially 3rd round draw is the club can draw anyone in hat home or away which is part of the excitement of the draw, seeding the draw would dilute that.
I think there has been too much meddling with the FA cup in recent years, mostly to suit TV but also other reasons. And each time something changes, a bit of history is discarded, and its this rich history which makes the FA cup what it is (or was) and cheapens it as a result.
If they want to do any meddling, then do it in the League cup. If they want to make the League cup a bit more interesting, how about opening it up to the top 10 conference teams, and also perhaps make it a UK wide cup so we can have more England-Scotland encounters. It would only require an extra round and space could be made earlier on by dropping the Johnsons Paint trophy which very few teams or supporters take seriously until at least the semi finals or a rarely played local derby comes along.
Who gets 'embarrassed' by less prolific sides entering the Europa League exactly? What a load of shit.
If the English relegated, Championship and mid-table sides qualify for the Europa League via the cups and do well - fine.
If they don't perform as well as 6th and 7th Premier League sides would have done then that is going to reduce England's ranking and will reduce England's quota from 4 to 3 Champions League sides.
Forget about the romance of the plucky underdog done well. I want to see England's best sides competing for European cups.
So I'd rather have Everton (6th) and Liverpool (7th) in this season's Europa League than perhaps Swansea (9th) and certainly Wigan (18th).
6th should go through to the Europa League in addition to 5th.
There should be a play-off between 7th, 8th, FA Cup and League Cup winners for the 3rd Europa slot.
But I think the League Cup should be a distinctive Under 23s competition leading to a Under 23s Europa League.
A place in Europe is earned rather than given out to the best sides based on how well they might do, so Wigan being in the competition is right regardless of how well they do or how the coefficient is affected.
To have it any other way would be the embarrassment.
If the FA Cup winners have already qualified for Europe, then the place should go to the next best placed league team rather than the losing finalists.
Comments
When Macclesfield got the draw in the orginal 3rd round tie, there manager said they were playing for the draw.
The FA Cup is about all the clubs, not just those precious few clubs, who make Europe.
The FA cup managed for years, before Europe come into question.
How about telling those clubs who are in Europe, don't play in domestic cup competitions
Take Blackburn as an example, they could have held on and beat 10 man Manchester City on penalties if there were no replays instead of going out in a predictable one sided replay.
Why not just have the European Competitions knock out, what do big clubs get out of playing, a team they are gonna thrash.
Man City v Viktoria Plzen for example, what really is the point
By that logic what is the point in a PL side playing a lower league side in the FA cup?
Thats really not the case though. The FA Cup has been far more devalued by the relegation-threatened teams putting out weakened teams. The big sides can put out a team and rotate their squads and still win. The likes of West Ham and Villa have demonstrated that they cannot and they are not doing it because of European fixture congestion.
Their presence in the Europa Cup is also a complete embarrassment. If we continue to send dross like Wigan and Birmingham and middle table Swansea and these get knocked out early, England's co-efficient will fall and eventually we will get fewer CL teams.
My view:
Make the League Cup for Under 23s. No Europa Cup space for the winner of the League Cup but entry into an Under 23s Europa Cup.
Make the FA Cup and League Cup draws seeded based on league ranking - just like tennis at Wimbledon etc. That works fine. That would help generate better matches at the money end of the tournament.
I don't think it has been devalued more by the teams at the bottom of the league compared to the top teams. All teams have devalued it equally because they are all doing the same thing and that's fielding a weakened side. It's just the top teams get away with it because, as you say, their second string will still win. Everyone has the same attitude regardless of the league position, which is that they think there are more important priorities.
But surely you are vindicated if you are winning? If City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea put out other members of their squads and still win how can anyone possibly complain? These sides have 20+ guys to choose from who can all do a job. Personally i believe any club should be able to pick whatever team they want but in the whole "lets find someone to blame" scenario i find it more of a shame that the clubs who aren't going to be winning the league or competing for the CL or indeed playing in Europe aren't taking the domestic cups seriously. I don't really understand that although i respect their right to do it.
To give a stark example City rotated their team and put 5 past a Championship team. West Ham rotated their squad and lost 5 to a Championship team. Thats the difference. City are looking for 4 trophies, West Ham aren't.
Have to disagree about seeding. The total lottery that can see two big teams drawn together in R3 is part of the cup, as is the small team who gets through to R4 or so and hopes to meet one of the big teams. A small team can get a good cup run by avoiding big teams until very late on.
Also with the League cup being U23s - many lower league teams would be pushed to field a team of U23s, and would end up resorting to youth team players, probably U16 at least to make up the numbers.
the fa cup draw IS already seeded albeit on a regional basis in the qualifying rounds.
the fact that ANY team allowed to enter the draw can play anyone is part of the charm of the game - its every other cup that should be dropped. one cup is enough
I am interested though - I have a copy of the form to enter a team into the 'FA challenge cup' presumably if those lower placed sides in the PL were that bothered they could simply not fill it in and send it back? or are the PL lot tied into playing as a prerequisite of being in the PL [i presume there is a similar form for the LC???
But that's the beauty of knockout football. Anything can happen on the day, the big sides can take each other out in the early rounds and a smaller side can cause one or two upsets and (shock horror)! win a trophy for once. Seeding the draw just destroys that beauty and unpredictability. No doubt if our co-efficient did fall you'd be screaming that it's all Wigan's fault for actually daring to go out and win a trophy rather than letting the big boys have it all their own way for once.
The draw would be simple. Two pots (one for seeded teams and another for unseeded). In the first match drawn, the seeded team would be at home, and the second match drawn the seeded team would be away, with that sequence alternating through the draw.
Don't play the semis at Wembley, make that the proper "big day out" it used to be.
Play the FA Cup Final after the league has finished
Kick off at 1500.
I'm not sure about the seedings, I like the fact the big teams can play each other in the early rounds and open up the draw a little later on.
I disagree one of the best things about the draw especially 3rd round draw is the club can draw anyone in hat home or away which is part of the excitement of the draw, seeding the draw would dilute that.
They have wholly earned to right to participate in that competition.
If they want to do any meddling, then do it in the League cup. If they want to make the League cup a bit more interesting, how about opening it up to the top 10 conference teams, and also perhaps make it a UK wide cup so we can have more England-Scotland encounters. It would only require an extra round and space could be made earlier on by dropping the Johnsons Paint trophy which very few teams or supporters take seriously until at least the semi finals or a rarely played local derby comes along.
If the English relegated, Championship and mid-table sides qualify for the Europa League via the cups and do well - fine.
If they don't perform as well as 6th and 7th Premier League sides would have done then that is going to reduce England's ranking and will reduce England's quota from 4 to 3 Champions League sides.
Forget about the romance of the plucky underdog done well. I want to see England's best sides competing for European cups.
So I'd rather have Everton (6th) and Liverpool (7th) in this season's Europa League than perhaps Swansea (9th) and certainly Wigan (18th).
6th should go through to the Europa League in addition to 5th.
There should be a play-off between 7th, 8th, FA Cup and League Cup winners for the 3rd Europa slot.
But I think the League Cup should be a distinctive Under 23s competition leading to a Under 23s Europa League.
To have it any other way would be the embarrassment.
That rule is already in place for the League Cup.