Oscar Pistorius Trial (Merged)

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  • josjos Posts: 9,992
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    smartie 33 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if it's really true that OP already had a new girlfriend before the trial? I remember reading in the papers and found it odd that he had moved on so quickly.

    It was in the press and there was a photo of her.

    By what we have seen of OP I don't find it odd at all that he has moved on, but I do find it odd that any sensible girl would now go with him
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,445
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    vald wrote: »
    I saw another good one on twitter

    -I'm aving to sell my arse to pay for this trial :o


    Tee hee :D
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    Gaaron wrote: »
    it sounds as if Kap has been influenced lol. There isn't any evidence as far as I have heard (via the court sessions).

    True. The only evidence is the increase in the intensity of the screaming reported by Stipp, etc. That has been interpreted as Steenkamp either seeing Pistorius with the gun or knowing that he had a gun. If the bat had made a hole in the door big enough to allow light to pass from the bathroom into the toilet then it's possible that Steenkamp could look through the hole and see what was going on.
  • jpscloudjpscloud Posts: 1,326
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    Oscar clearly stated in his cross-examination that in between, shooting Reeva and knocking down the bathroom door, he looked for his socks in the dark and put them on. It seemed an odd priority. He also claimed that the reason his legs were on the balcony side of the bed is that they need to be aired overnight (hence probably no socks). I don't believe he was sleeping on the sofa side of the bed and I don't believe he stopped to put his socks on. He socks were on, IMO, because they hadn't gone to bed and he hadn't yet taken his legs off. Saying he put his socks on also adds an extra activity to fill in the time gap between bangs.

    Ah yes that makes much more sense - so his legs would have been on throughout, even when shooting. I missed some of the early evidence and testimony, so not sure what was said about the likelihood of the shots having been fired from his height with or without legs, but have the impression it's not beyond doubt that he might have had legs on.

    Just a point though, you wouldn't have to take the socks off to air the legs - they are on a part of the prosthetics that isn't in contact with the real legs. I thought someone actually said the socks would usually be left on unless they needed washing.
  • Jaden_RileyJaden_Riley Posts: 199
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    I know there is innocent before guilty but i just don't know how anyone can believe OP's story.

    Its just soo fishy and odd. I mean how can you ''accidentally'' fire four shots into a tiny toilet space and claim that you thought ''she was an intruder''. I would understand 1 shot, but 4 times with those type of bullets? No warning shot into the ceiling to scare the ''intruder''. He clearly knew she was in there imo and their rocky history......

    Him being jealous, accusing her of flirting with other men, Reeva saying she is ''scared'' of him sometimes'', Reeva having to leave a party early because OP was being a d**k, just adds more fire to this tragic case. Clearly a domestic violence issue that ended up with her being murdered.

    I wonder if she was going to leave him or what? it's just very sad and i hope she gets the justice she deserved. I also think many of us can learn from this. When the signs are there that your man/woman is just insane, GET OUT!
  • conchieconchie Posts: 14,052
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    Gaaron wrote: »
    It was when OP was 'messing up' & I started to feel for Roux. All the hard work he had put in, & I felt he became 'deflated'. My 'emotion' taking hold, in that I hope he manages to get OP on the lesser charge. Rather silly I know. I have been able to listen/see evidence throughout as objectively as possible. When it's nearing the end of the trial my brain has had a soppy fit.
    It may sound harsh to others, that I've managed to just deal with facts, but we cannot put our subjective 'feelings/thoughts' into sentencing.

    Its easy to get wrapped up in all the personalities involved in this case, we all do it, found myself feeling for Roux today too, but the only thing that matters, the only person that matters is Reeva, first and last. This beautiful young woman with her entire life ahead of her met with a truly horrific end, what terror she went through in those final moments can only be imagined, and justice for that is all that counts now. Roux and Nel will live to fight another day regardless, they probably will have a drink together at the end of it all, and neither will care less what happens to OP if he is banged up !
  • GaaronGaaron Posts: 179
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    I'm a Roux fan too and I'm disappointed for him when I see him with slumped in his chair with his hand on the side of his face. Who knows. Maybe he thinks everything is going okay at the moment and that the defence has some more tricks up its sleeve but that doesn't seem to be consensus opinion.

    Here's hoping.
  • Jaden_RileyJaden_Riley Posts: 199
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    [QUOTE=Kapellmeister;72262481]I'm a Roux fan too and I'm disappointed for him when I see him with slumped in his chair with his hand on the side of his face. Who knows. Maybe he thinks everything is going okay at the moment and that the defence has some more tricks up its sleeve but that doesn't seem to be consensus opinion.[/QUOTE]

    why lol?

    He will live...he isn't going down for murder. This was a very hard case to defend. His story has so many holes that its almost impossible to believe it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,445
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    jpscloud wrote: »

    Just a point though, you wouldn't have to take the socks off to air the legs - they are on a part of the prosthetics that isn't in contact with the real legs. I thought someone actually said the socks would usually be left on unless they needed washing.

    OP's method for 'airing his legs' also curiously involved draping his clothes over the top them.
  • AJ_TvllAJ_Tvll Posts: 3,295
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    Re-listened to Dr. Stipp

    He said that OP went upstairs before the paramedics had arrived…which prompted him to be worried about suicide and ask Stander if he knew where the gun was

    So OP lied again about going back upstairs only when asked by paramedics for RS's identification… plus he said Clarice went with him.

    Sure hope that Yohan and Clarice Stander testify….but they probably won't be called by Defence…they could do more harm than good… come to think of it, they actually might testify for that very reason !!!
  • Jaden_RileyJaden_Riley Posts: 199
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    jos wrote: »
    It was in the press and there was a photo of her.

    By what we have seen of OP I don't find it odd at all that he has moved on, but I do find it odd that any sensible girl would now go with him

    I think RS was just another girl to him.

    I don't think he was deeply in love with her at all. Maybe he wanted her as a trophy girl because she was very pretty but she wasn't going to stand for that and wanted something more?

    I read she was with her last bf for 5 years so clearly she wasn't one of those ''loose'' ladies
  • Jaden_RileyJaden_Riley Posts: 199
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    True. The only evidence is the increase in the intensity of the screaming reported by Stipp, etc. That has been interpreted as Steenkamp either seeing Pistorius with the gun or knowing that he had a gun. If the bat had made a hole in the door big enough to allow light to pass from the bathroom into the toilet then it's possible that Steenkamp could look through the hole and see what was going on.

    its all very sad:(

    poor girl/:(
  • josjos Posts: 9,992
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    Yes, this might be an issue. A reputable expert witness is not going to perjure himself in court or give knowingly false evidence just because Pistorius waves a big cheque under his nose.

    The animation is interesting. If it doesn't support Pistorius's testimony then I doubt it will even be used, which in itself would speak volumes. Still, they have two weeks to fiddle with it...

    Strangely, although Roux said he had 15/17 witnesses to come, I have a feeling we may not get to see many of them.

    I'm pretty sure Roux tried to get OP to change his plea and as he refused I suspect Roux has thrown his bat in . Just a thought
  • Jaden_RileyJaden_Riley Posts: 199
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    conchie wrote: »
    Its easy to get wrapped up in all the personalities involved in this case, we all do it, found myself feeling for Roux today too, but the only thing that matters, the only person that matters is Reeva, first and last. This beautiful young woman with her entire life ahead of her met with a truly horrific end, what terror she went through in those final moments can only be imagined, and justice for that is all that counts now. Roux and Nel will live to fight another day regardless, they probably will have a drink together at the end of it all, and neither will care less what happens to OP if he is banged up !

    Exactly

    its just a job. They are not supposed to get emotionally attached with their clients. They are paid to perform a task. Won't be surprised if they are friends etc....
  • Jaden_RileyJaden_Riley Posts: 199
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    jos wrote: »
    Strangely, although Roux said he had 15/17 witnesses to come, I have a feeling we may not get to see many of them.

    I'm pretty sure Roux tried to get OP to change his plea and as he refused I suspect Roux has thrown his bat in . Just a thought

    what who are they?

    they are probably going to say how much in love reeva and oscar were?!?:o
  • RhumbatuggerRhumbatugger Posts: 85,712
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    jos wrote: »
    Strangely, although Roux said he had 15/17 witnesses to come, I have a feeling we may not get to see many of them.

    I'm pretty sure Roux tried to get OP to change his plea and as he refused I suspect Roux has thrown his bat in . Just a thought

    I think there may well have been a problem with OP. He's sort of deluded about how 'loved and forgiven' he will be and seems determined to fight every single charge, however unreasonably or badly, and thinks he'll win.

    However we also have Nel. He may not be prepared under any circumstances to deal. The State evidence and case is very strong, Nel is convinced that OP is a murderer, a brutal one, and one who is prepared to lie and twist and blame everyone including Reeva for the event.

    And he may just NOT let him off the hook, whatever deal the defense might offer.

    Roux is between a rock and a hard place, so to speak. He's going to have to defend the indefensible as best he can, even as his witnesses drop and inadvertantly help the prosecution at every turn.

    I can't get too upset though. Roux is a lawyer, you win some, you lose some, and he's getting paid handsomely. A good holiday will cheer him up.:D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,340
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    jpscloud wrote: »
    Ah yes that makes much more sense - so his legs would have been on throughout, even when shooting. I missed some of the early evidence and testimony, so not sure what was said about the likelihood of the shots having been fired from his height with or without legs, but have the impression it's not beyond doubt that he might have had legs on.

    Just a point though, you wouldn't have to take the socks off to air the legs - they are on a part of the prosthetics that isn't in contact with the real legs. I thought someone actually said the socks would usually be left on unless they needed washing.

    I can't remember the height difference of Oscar's elbow with his prostheses on and Oscar's shoulder on his stumps, but it was somewhere more than 5cm and less than 10cm. Captain Mangena testified that Oscar shot from the shoulder, with his raising of the gun to his eye-line and the extra height added by the barrel of the gun accounting for the 7cm difference in the shoulder level and the height from which the gun was fired. Captain Mangena's assertion is based upon Oscar shooting with a classic firing stance. However, as lots of us on here have stated, if Oscar was not using a classic firing stance then the ballistics evidence does not rule out his being on his prostheses. He actually said in his cross-examination that he fired with his arm bent (with his elbow slightly extended from the hip). After adjourning for lunch he changed this back to firing from the shoulder.
  • josjos Posts: 9,992
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    He does sound rather sanguine about his mauling. He's probably happy now he's back in his home-grown forest.

    I don't think he has any idea what a fool he has made of himself.
  • brillopadbrillopad Posts: 3,226
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    conchie wrote: »
    I think the very tiny space within the toilet would be the vital factor in deciding that. No where to run, no where to hide in a space you could barely swing a cat in. The chances of not hitting her would be practically zero. Even if she managed to jump up on the toilet and lean as far as she could into the window, the chances of a ricochet getting her would be very high.

    In all honesty the truth is the moment he fired that gun regardless of whether he hit her or not he was stuffed. Imagine if he did fire the four shots and actually missed her. What then !!!! That would be a very interesting scenario. Would he let her just walk out the door straight to a police station where he would be ruined anyway. Reputation in tatters sponsors gone, an attempted murder charge hanging over him.

    I'm always reminded of...
    'Get the fxx out of my house' he shouted.

    If I heard someone in my house I would shout...

    Who's that .....or any sort of inquiring words.

    I think he admitted to 'get the fxx out of my house' because he thought he might have been heard - but he was really shouting at Reeva who had locked herself on the toilet - terrified of him.

    I've mentioned this before - I never got married or was in a long term relationship as I discovered at a young age that I cannot control my emotions with ladies - it surprised me when I became aware of it - I was suspicious of anyone even talking to a GF and I lashed out on occasion - it was of course ridiculous but I had no control over it.

    I think OP was like this.
  • jpscloudjpscloud Posts: 1,326
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    I think RS was just another girl to him.

    I don't think he was deeply in love with her at all. Maybe he wanted her as a trophy girl because she was very pretty but she wasn't going to stand for that and wanted something more?

    I read she was with her last bf for 5 years so clearly she wasn't one of those ''loose'' ladies

    You mean a *gasp* strumpet??!! :D

    Seriously though I agree, he certainly seemed not too bothered that he was forced by Nel to say he'd not told Reeva he loved her and while her whatsapp messages were emotional and full of feeling, his were always very brief. He also hadn't got her a card or present for Valentine's, and said something about going to a shop to get her some jewellery on the day.

    I'm sure he's not the first bloke to ever be lucky enough to have a lovely woman be generous with her heart, and fail to be thoughtful in return, but putting that together with his other egotistical and self-centred traits it's just so sad that she was trusting.
  • josjos Posts: 9,992
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    flower 2 wrote: »
    But you have to remember the poor soul was firing for his life (and to protect Reeva) from intruder/s!

    Yeehh - whatever ;-)
  • RhumbatuggerRhumbatugger Posts: 85,712
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    I can't remember the height difference of Oscar's elbow with his prostheses on and Oscar's shoulder on his stumps, but it was somewhere more than 5cm and less than 10cm. Captain Mangena testified that Oscar shot from the shoulder, with his raising of the gun to his eye-line and the extra height added by the barrel of the gun accounting for the 7cm difference in the shoulder level and the height from which the gun was fired. Captain Mangena's assertion is based upon Oscar shooting with a classic firing stance. However, as lots of us on here have stated, if Oscar was not using a classic firing stance then the ballistics evidence does not rule out his being on his prostheses. He actually said in his cross-examination that he fired with his arm bent (with his elbow slightly extended from the hip). After adjourning for lunch he changed this back to firing from the shoulder.

    I remember that - he was trying to say he 'wasn't in readiness' to fire, as it was an 'accident', but it felt very significant to me as I think it's very likely he did shoot like that only in a controlled way. And on his legs.

    When he changed it moments later, it was as if he'd realised he'd inadvertantly given too much away. It was close to the truth, and would have blown his 'legs off' defense out of the water.

    The skirting and moving away, and conflating of the truth of what happened was fascinating to watch.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,340
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    Hiris wrote: »
    OP's method for 'airing his legs' also curiously involved draping his clothes over the top them.

    Yes, unless he wanted to find a reason why his vest was thrown on the floor on the side of the bed where he wasn't sleeping. Must have been bloody awkward in that bed with Reeva and Oscar constantly having to lean across each other to get to their belongings ;-).
  • Jaden_RileyJaden_Riley Posts: 199
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    brillopad wrote: »
    I'm always reminded of...
    'Get the fxx out of my house' he shouted.

    If I heard someone in my house I would shout...

    Who's that .....or any sort of inquiring words.

    I think he admitted to 'get the fxx out of my house' because he thought he might have been heard - but he was really shouting at Reeva who had locked herself on the toilet - terrified of him.

    I've mentioned this before - I never got married or was in a long term relationship as I discovered at a young age that I cannot control my emotions with ladies - it surprised me when I became aware of it - I was suspicious of anyone even talking to a GF and I lashed out on occasion - it was of course ridiculous but I had no control over it.

    I think OP was like this.

    Thats a good point. A lot of people have been saying thats what he said to Reeva. Those words seem to precise to be aimed at a stranger. Seems words you will say to somebody you know well.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,445
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    brillopad wrote: »
    I'm always reminded of...
    'Get the fxx out of my house' he shouted.

    If I heard someone in my house I would shout...

    Who's that .....or any sort of inquiring words.

    I think he admitted to 'get the fxx out of my house' because he thought he might have been heard - but he was really shouting at Reeva who had locked herself on the toilet - terrified of him.

    I've mentioned this before - I never got married or was in a long term relationship as I discovered at a young age that I cannot control my emotions with ladies - it surprised me when I became aware of it - I was suspicious of anyone even talking to a GF and I lashed out on occasion - it was of course ridiculous but I had no control over it.

    I think OP was like this.

    You are in the minority who have actually realised or admitted they have/had a problem in that respect, good on you for that.
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