I wonder if the SAS would have made a better job (See Iran Embassy Siege).
I guess the trouble with a shop location is it's only a couple of rooms and usually has just two points of possible entry (front door, rear door) so difficult to storm. It looks from the video footage as if they ended up going through the front window. It looked a bit messy to me. Unclear if it was planned or if they were reacting to something. A hostage had minutes earlier ran out so it strikes me as an odd time to then raid the place by choice.
Those that allow extremist scum like this to roam the streets are as guilty as the killers themselves. In nearly every recent incident we've seen, there were clesr warnings that were ignored. Time to wake up before its too late, next time it could be a dirty bomb that will claim thousands of lives.
Wheres the condemnation from the muslim comunites,for this, as usual theres none.
It's a bit of a catch 22.
If you perceive there's silence where there is none, you demand a response.
When Muslims and community leaders do speak out, some people then say it's not enough or that it's meaningless.
I don't think it's right to say "as usual theres [sic] none". I think you need to be looking in the right places. Certain media outlets wouldn't report on it. So if you want to find out what Muslims are saying about it, maybe have a look?
I wonder if the SAS would have made a better job (See Iran Embassy Siege).
I remember an ex SAS giving an interview after the Moscow theater siege,basically saying all the criticism the Russians were getting was harsh as when they worked out their scenarios for the Iran Embassy they predicted similar levels of casualties and it was deemed acceptable,they just got luckier(in his opinion)
That said this is a completely different scenario certainly not a special forces incident
From the sounds of it this bloke knew he was in trouble as he was on bail and thought he might as well go out 'in style' and sort of did a bodge job IS style attack and it all went a bit tits up for him (hooray!). All a bit embarrassing for him really. I am glad this has ended in what seems to be fatality free and I hope the survivors get adequate help.
Please spare this thread another 'why don't moderate Muslims' speak up debate. I have major issues with Islam and even I know that's a pointless red herring.
I always prefer that they are dead. They cause no more problems that way.
With what I would have done to him he would not have been any problems to anyone. Instant death is far too quick and an easy way out.. A slow lingering painful death is much better for the likes of them
It sounds as if it could still result in the loss of innocent lives. Is that a price worth paying for allowing extremists the right to spread their filth ? This guy had been on their radar for years.
I guess the trouble with a shop location is it's only a couple of rooms and usually has just two points of possible entry (front door, rear door) so difficult to storm. It looks from the video footage as if they ended up going through the front window. It looked a bit messy to me. Unclear if it was planned or if they were reacting to something. A hostage had minutes earlier ran out so it strikes me as an odd time to then raid the place by choice.
All of the units involved will be highly trained and practise for these very situations, however every situation is different with complex problems.......it is simply not possible to legislate for every eventuality. Once the decision is taken to move in, it is going to look 'messy', as everything unfolds in just a few seconds. The planning would include 'reacting to a trigger' as well as a more controlled entry....they have control of one but not the other
It's a bit of a catch 22.
If you perceive there's silence where there is none, you demand a response.
When Muslims and community leaders do speak out, some people then say it's not enough or that it's meaningless.
I don't think it's right to say "as usual theres [sic] none". I think you need to be looking in the right places. Certain media outlets wouldn't report on it. So if you want to find out what Muslims are saying about it, maybe have a look?
Yes, i take your message on board, i been watching sky and have'nt seen anything.
According to channel
7 man when he was moving a group of hostages from one end of the room to the other the hostages nearer the fire exit made a run for it then he become very cross and then shot a hostage it's then when the police were given the go ahead to storm
into the building.
It's a bit of a catch 22.
If you perceive there's silence where there is none, you demand a response.
When Muslims and community leaders do speak out, some people then say it's not enough or that it's meaningless.
I don't think it's right to say "as usual theres [sic] none". I think you need to be looking in the right places. Certain media outlets wouldn't report on it. So if you want to find out what Muslims are saying about it, maybe have a look?
And if muslims do speak out they could end up make themselves targets for the extremist muslims.
According to channel
7 man when he was moving a group of hostages from one end of the room to the other the hostages nearer the fire exit made a run for it then he become very cross and then shot a hostage it's then when the police were given the go ahead to storm
into the building.
Yep that fits in with what happened in the video.. a woman made a run for it and I think a man got out too.. possibly they ran in different directions. There was a bang and that's when they went in a few moments later. Must have been reacting to the shot.
According to channel
7 man when he was moving a group of hostages from one end of the room to the other the hostages nearer the fire exit made a run for it then he become very cross and then shot a hostage it's then when the police were given the go ahead to storm
into the building.
Channel 7 were able to film the entire seige. They are sitting on a whole lot of material including phone calls from both the gunman and the hostages.
On the World at One Martha Kearney interviewed a chap who was saying that there had been an embargo on film being released of the events going on inside the cafe. Channel 7 News building was directly across the road from the Lindt building. He described the hostages using their phones to talk to news stations and post to Facebook. He was also able to describe the facial expression of the hostage taker when several of the hostages were escaping. If he could see all this then so could the police marksmen.
Are you not bothering to read the posts in reply to yours? Several posters have already explained why they may not have, and quite honestly, I'm not sure why you think you are more 'in the know' than the police officers that are actually there.
And if muslims do speak out they could end up make themselves targets for the extremist muslims.
I've just been reading that a couple of young muslim men went down to the scene to pray for the hostages and one of them even offered to go in the cafe, in place of any policeman to spare them being killed.
There have been 40 Australian muslim groups speaking out against what this man did. Type in "muslim australia sydney condemn" in Google to see more.
Comments
I guess the trouble with a shop location is it's only a couple of rooms and usually has just two points of possible entry (front door, rear door) so difficult to storm. It looks from the video footage as if they ended up going through the front window. It looked a bit messy to me. Unclear if it was planned or if they were reacting to something. A hostage had minutes earlier ran out so it strikes me as an odd time to then raid the place by choice.
Calm down. This was one man with a shot gun.
It's a bit of a catch 22.
If you perceive there's silence where there is none, you demand a response.
When Muslims and community leaders do speak out, some people then say it's not enough or that it's meaningless.
I don't think it's right to say "as usual theres [sic] none". I think you need to be looking in the right places. Certain media outlets wouldn't report on it. So if you want to find out what Muslims are saying about it, maybe have a look?
That said this is a completely different scenario certainly not a special forces incident
EDIT: Seems there are some serious injuries.
There are some serious causalities.
With what I would have done to him he would not have been any problems to anyone. Instant death is far too quick and an easy way out.. A slow lingering painful death is much better for the likes of them
It sounds as if it could still result in the loss of innocent lives. Is that a price worth paying for allowing extremists the right to spread their filth ? This guy had been on their radar for years.
All of the units involved will be highly trained and practise for these very situations, however every situation is different with complex problems.......it is simply not possible to legislate for every eventuality. Once the decision is taken to move in, it is going to look 'messy', as everything unfolds in just a few seconds. The planning would include 'reacting to a trigger' as well as a more controlled entry....they have control of one but not the other
That does seem odd. I'm not watching the news now but before I stopped BBC were saying CPR was being done on someone. Could it be him?
Found this on the guardian. "The Iranian-born man, who apparently converted from Shia Islam to Sunni only last week"
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2014/dec/15/sydney-siege-reports-of-hostage-situation-inside-martin-place-cafe-live?CMP=share_btn_tw#block-548f05d7e4b0a271100e6236
Must have converted to try and justifiy what he had planned.
Yes, i take your message on board, i been watching sky and have'nt seen anything.
Thanks for not being rude, and uncouth.
7 man when he was moving a group of hostages from one end of the room to the other the hostages nearer the fire exit made a run for it then he become very cross and then shot a hostage it's then when the police were given the go ahead to storm
into the building.
And if muslims do speak out they could end up make themselves targets for the extremist muslims.
Yep that fits in with what happened in the video.. a woman made a run for it and I think a man got out too.. possibly they ran in different directions. There was a bang and that's when they went in a few moments later. Must have been reacting to the shot.
Channel 7 were able to film the entire seige. They are sitting on a whole lot of material including phone calls from both the gunman and the hostages.
Are you not bothering to read the posts in reply to yours? Several posters have already explained why they may not have, and quite honestly, I'm not sure why you think you are more 'in the know' than the police officers that are actually there.
That's so sad.
I've just been reading that a couple of young muslim men went down to the scene to pray for the hostages and one of them even offered to go in the cafe, in place of any policeman to spare them being killed.
There have been 40 Australian muslim groups speaking out against what this man did. Type in "muslim australia sydney condemn" in Google to see more.