Why do people on here seem to hate Rose?

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  • DavetheScotDavetheScot Posts: 16,623
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    I think there's a vocal group here who don't like Rose. I'm not convinced that that's typical of everyone here.

    Personally I liked Rose, and unlike some I don't see any difference between her character in series 1 and series 2. What I do agree with is that she was made into something in series 3 that she had never really been (the Doctor at one stage disparaged Martha by telling her "Rose would have known what to do", when in fact Rose didn't have any special knowledge; she was brave and resourceful, but so was Martha).

    I also agree her return at the end of series 4 a) shouldn't have happened and b) given that it did, it was badly handled. The end of Doomsday was so poignant precisely because Rose and the Doctor could never be together again. To find a way to bring them back together then for the Doctor to put her back in the alternative universe for no reason whatever with a third-rate clone of himself was an abomination that pissed all over the wonderful ending of Doomsday.

    If Rose is coming back for the anniversary, I'll be happy to see her, but I hope Moffat finds a better way to handle it.
  • HelboreHelbore Posts: 16,066
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    As a few people have already said - loved her in series 1, got increasingly fed up of her in series 2. I generally view them as if they were different characters, because I felt her characterisation was so different between the series.

    Rose was a thing of wonder in series 1 and her relationship with the Doctor was fun and chaotic. They loved and hated each other at times. Rose was decidedly human and the Doctor was bizarrely alien at times (come on, he thought it was a good idea to let her watch her dad die. No human would think that was good.)

    But by series 2, she was like this 14-year-old girlfriend. We had the Doctor saying "see you later," only for Rose to say "not if I see you first." We had them having doey-eyd picnics lying in the grass. We had Rose fit-full of jealousy (and showing massive levels of stupid) when - twice - she discovers that this 900-year-old Doctor had a life before her (once with Sarah-Jane and the other when he mentions he had a family once).

    The character went from a smart-but-bored teen who jumped at the chance to see the universe, to a petulant teenager who didn't want anyone else looking at her "boyfriend," - even though he wasn't actually her boyfriend.
  • TardisSteveTardisSteve Posts: 8,077
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    loved rose with the ninth doctor , didn't didn't like lovesick rose with 10th doctor much, was sad when she left, didn't like the way she treated poor mickey though
  • codename_47codename_47 Posts: 9,682
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    There's a lot of snobbery in who fandom if you haven't noticed.
    Everyone rushes to describe her as a chav, as if there's something wrong with growing up with a single mother (due to her father dying! ) on a council estate in London

    The other stuff is pathetic too. She acts jealous about Sarah Jane for about 5 minutes before they establish a friendship and begin bonding over their shared history with the doctor and the same can be said about her relationship with Martha.
    And she showed none of that with Donna in their shared ep either.

    Yet "fandom" will never forgive her for these perfectly normal human traits.

    Meanwhile Amy Pond can be in a similar triad and be a complete cow to everyone she meets, especially to Rory, and people praise her to high heaven
    There's really no equality in who fandom
  • ea91ea91 Posts: 2,363
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    Meanwhile Amy Pond can be in a similar triad and be a complete cow to everyone she meets, especially to Rory, and people praise her to high heaven
    There's really no equality in who fandom

    If it helps, I dislike Rose and Amy pretty much equally. :cool:
    The only advantage Amy has over Rose is that Amy's not desperately coming back, I hope.
  • codename_47codename_47 Posts: 9,682
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    People also misunderstanding the ending to Journey's end too.
    In no way was the new new doctor a second rate clone.
    The second he whispered I love you in her ear, doing what the doctor could never do, he became her doctor.
    One that could age, settle down and choose a name and still be the man she loved
    That's why it's such a sacrifice for our doctor, he's making sure she can have everything he could never give her
  • ea91ea91 Posts: 2,363
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    The second he whispered I love you in her ear, doing what the doctor could never do, he became her doctor.

    The second I read that I was reminded of what a horrible horrible ending that was. Maybe he wasn't a second rate clone, but that sure was some second rate writing. A soppy contrived ending like that isn't even worthy of The Sarah Jane Adventures.
  • codename_47codename_47 Posts: 9,682
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    ea91 wrote: »
    The second I read that I was reminded of what a horrible horrible ending that was. Maybe he wasn't a second rate clone, but that sure was some second rate writing. A soppy contrived ending like that isn't even worthy of The Sarah Jane Adventures.

    Each to his own. I much prefer it to the contrived "they're falling to their deaths...oh no wait everything is ok. Oh no! Something else has happened in the last 5 mins to get them" ending Amy and Rory got
  • DavetheScotDavetheScot Posts: 16,623
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    People also misunderstanding the ending to Journey's end too.
    In no way was the new new doctor a second rate clone.
    The second he whispered I love you in her ear, doing what the doctor could never do, he became her doctor.
    One that could age, settle down and choose a name and still be the man she loved
    That's why it's such a sacrifice for our doctor, he's making sure she can have everything he could never give her

    Well, Rose certainly didn't look like she wanted the Doctor she was getting! I don't see it in that way at all.
  • ea91ea91 Posts: 2,363
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    Each to his own. I much prefer it to the contrived "they're falling to their deaths...oh no wait everything is ok. Oh no! Something else has happened in the last 5 mins to get them" ending Amy and Rory got

    For what it's worth I didn't think that was much better, but the "something else" wasn't so out of place and ridiculous - basically an Angel got Rory and Amy decided to go after him. It's not like she found a Rory clone and moved to Pluto.
  • swadeyswadey Posts: 355
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    Rose was great.

    Then she left. Perhaps she could've returned once again. Sadly :

    Then she kept coming back over and over and over again.
  • Pob-BundyPob-Bundy Posts: 1,321
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    Well she's no Benedict Cumberbatch is she
  • davrosdodebirddavrosdodebird Posts: 8,692
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    My problem with Rose

    ah! beaten to it!
  • mikey1980mikey1980 Posts: 3,647
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    Meanwhile Amy Pond can be in a similar triad and be a complete cow to everyone she meets, especially to Rory, and people praise her to high heaven. There's really no equality in who fandom

    I hate the character of Amy Pond, I thought she was thoroughly selfish and dislikeable from the get go. And I thought Karen Gillian was a weak actress who garbled her lines.

    In contrast, I thought series 1 Rose was absolutely brilliant, likeable and real, a perfect foil for the 9th doctor. I didn't like the way Rose's character was written in the 2nd series, but it was redeemed by her emotional and powerful exit in the finale.

    Ordinarily, that would have been that. But not only was Rose constantly referenced in series 3, she then returned in series 4, and (sort of) in End Of Time Part Two. It's understandable, then, that many fans are a little weary of having to see her return again, as good as she was back in the day.

    But let's be clear - she was a great companion, in a different league to Amy Pond.
  • James FrederickJames Frederick Posts: 53,184
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    mikey1980 wrote: »
    I hate the character of Amy Pond, I thought she was thoroughly selfish and dislikeable from the get go. And I thought Karen Gillian was a weak actress who garbled her lines..

    You forgot the sulking and moaning the endless sulking and moaning god that girl could win 100 million on the Euro lotto and sulk over it
  • davrosdodebirddavrosdodebird Posts: 8,692
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    A great companion? WelshyOneder did a joint review of Boom Town with Mr TARDIS, and in part 2 he does a segment "My problem with Rose in Boom Town". Let's be clear on this. Rose cares about NOTHING but her selfish self.

    Aliens of London? Doesn't give a damn about how worried her mother was after she went "missing" for a year, shows no sign at all of caring that Mickey was accused of being a murderer and questioned several times by the police and vilified by Rose's mum, she's only concerned about keeping her travels secret, and a few minutes later she's on the roof laughing it up with the Doctor!

    In Boom Town she calls Mickey to Cardiff just for her passport, arrives with two men (i.e. The Doctor and Jack), Jack being flirty with her etc, plus her underlying feelings for the Doctor. Rose took off and left Mickey without a backwards glance, going so far as to insult him before she leaves, and despite the fact that she's clearly more than happy to roam the Universe with 2 men, one of whom would be happy to be more than just friends with her, she then proceeds to have a go at Mickey for going out with someone else, like she's the only one who's allowed to do that! On top of the fact that, in Aliens of London she half expected him to be going out with someone else anyway.

    She sulks when she doesn't get her own way until she does, and puts her own selfish feelings before the fate of the entire Universe! And then in series 4 she's inexplicably badass, and has had a personality transplant that enhances the worse aspects of her nature!!!
  • JohnnyForgetJohnnyForget Posts: 24,061
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    A great companion? WelshyOneder did a joint review of Boom Town with Mr TARDIS, and in part 2 he does a segment "My problem with Rose in Boom Town". Let's be clear on this. Rose cares about NOTHING but her selfish self.

    Aliens of London? Doesn't give a damn about how worried her mother was after she went "missing" for a year, shows no sign at all of caring that Mickey was accused of being a murderer and questioned several times by the police and vilified by Rose's mum, she's only concerned about keeping her travels secret, and a few minutes later she's on the roof laughing it up with the Doctor!

    In Boom Town she calls Mickey to Cardiff just for her passport, arrives with two men (i.e. The Doctor and Jack), Jack being flirty with her etc, plus her underlying feelings for the Doctor. Rose took off and left Mickey without a backwards glance, going so far as to insult him before she leaves, and despite the fact that she's clearly more than happy to roam the Universe with 2 men, one of whom would be happy to be more than just friends with her, she then proceeds to have a go at Mickey for going out with someone else, like she's the only one who's allowed to do that! On top of the fact that, in Aliens of London she half expected him to be going out with someone else anyway.

    She sulks when she doesn't get her own way until she does, and puts her own selfish feelings before the fate of the entire Universe! And then in series 4 she's inexplicably badass, and has had a personality transplant that enhances the worse aspects of her nature!!!

    Brilliant post.
  • ShevkShevk Posts: 1,134
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    So much criticism of Rose's treatment of Mickey...

    Yet when Rose is almost blown up in the first episode Mickey seems more interested in the football than her. Then there's the "Don't check my emails!" line. Surely implies that he's cheating on her with his right fist via the medium of pornography. [Davies alluded to this in The Writer's Tale]

    Seriously, what are Mickey's emails about? Doesn't this make him a little hypocritical and not a blameless lovely victim.(For some reason anyone looking for a reason to detract from Rose will blame her treatment of Mickey, when his treatment of her pre-show/during first episode is shown to be pretty rubbish.

    And there's Jackie... would sooner throw her daughter to work in a Butcher's that let her go back to college. And how many men has she brought home to their shared flat. Has she tried to seduce any other of Rose's guests?

    All of these character's are selfish and flawed and messed up in little ways but that doesn't make them rubbish characters or show them to have no empathy. Rose is all about empathy to the ordinary little people she meets.

    Her "selfish" behaviour towards Mickey and Jackie is a manifestation of her taking them for granted. I don't think there's anyone who hasn't taken their parent or loved one for granted.
  • davrosdodebirddavrosdodebird Posts: 8,692
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    At least Mickey showed some concern for Rose! His first line, for example, he asked if she was ok -- "It was on the news and everythin'! I can't believe the shop went up!" *kisses* "Tea? You need something stronger..." then he asks her out to the pub. His motive is to watch the football, but he doesn't exactly take off and leave her, he at least wants her company and is trying to show that he cares. Thus Mickey has redeeming features. Rose has very few of these. Rose's Mum wasn't just trying to throw her into a job, she was doing what all mums do, looking out for her child. She didn't try and force Rose to take the job at Finch's, she suggested that Rose was better off finding work than staying at home all day doing nothing, her job at Henrik's was all Rose had pre-series, and Jackie saw that. Not forgetting that Jackie also showed worry and concern after the Auton attack, she phoned Rose warning her not to leave the house, on top of that she also tried getting Rose compensation for the Henrik's incident.

    It's all about the redeeming features.

    I would also like to point out that the flat isn't a shared one, it's the same flat Jackie owned/ rented with Pete, which establishes Jackie as the main tenant, though it wasn't established whether she charges Rose rent for living there.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,753
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    The first episode could be considered a bit of a pilot I think. Some of the characters turned out a bit different to the 'first impressions' that looked like were intended in that episode.
  • November_RainNovember_Rain Posts: 9,145
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    A great companion? WelshyOneder did a joint review of Boom Town with Mr TARDIS, and in part 2 he does a segment "My problem with Rose in Boom Town". Let's be clear on this. Rose cares about NOTHING but her selfish self.

    Aliens of London? Doesn't give a damn about how worried her mother was after she went "missing" for a year, shows no sign at all of caring that Mickey was accused of being a murderer and questioned several times by the police and vilified by Rose's mum, she's only concerned about keeping her travels secret, and a few minutes later she's on the roof laughing it up with the Doctor!

    In Boom Town she calls Mickey to Cardiff just for her passport, arrives with two men (i.e. The Doctor and Jack), Jack being flirty with her etc, plus her underlying feelings for the Doctor. Rose took off and left Mickey without a backwards glance, going so far as to insult him before she leaves, and despite the fact that she's clearly more than happy to roam the Universe with 2 men, one of whom would be happy to be more than just friends with her, she then proceeds to have a go at Mickey for going out with someone else, like she's the only one who's allowed to do that! On top of the fact that, in Aliens of London she half expected him to be going out with someone else anyway.

    She sulks when she doesn't get her own way until she does, and puts her own selfish feelings before the fate of the entire Universe! And then in series 4 she's badass, and has had a personality transplant that enhances the worse aspects of her nature!!!

    Also she would have been quite happy to leave Jackie, her own mother, on the parallel Earth had Pete not gone back to get her in Doomsday. She didn't even seem to give a second's thought about the effect this would have on Jackie, all she cared about was continuing her teenage love affair with Ten.

    School Reunion was another prime example of how self-centred Rose could be. She seemed totally aghast over the fact that The Doctor had travelled with others before, which was surely almost a given when you take into account his age and how quickly he invited Rose along on his travels (if he was into travelling alone, she wouldn't have been asked so quickly). Though to be fair Sarah Jane was quite catty herself initially and they both got on really well afterwards.
  • Mystical123Mystical123 Posts: 15,811
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    I think it's more they just got fed up with been told she was gone this time for good and then brought back again and when she did she seemed to overshadow whatever companion was there at the time.

    This. I loved Rose with the 10th Doctor especially, but Doomsday should have been the last time she appeared. It made a mockery of that whole episode for her to turn up again, and that also overshadowed Donna's exit, meaning she didn't get the exit Catherine Tate's great performances deserved.


    Even without that, for me Martha, Donna, Amy and Clara are all much more likeable companions.
  • Shawn_LunnShawn_Lunn Posts: 9,353
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    There's a lot of snobbery in who fandom if you haven't noticed.
    Everyone rushes to describe her as a chav, as if there's something wrong with growing up with a single mother (due to her father dying! ) on a council estate in London

    The other stuff is pathetic too. She acts jealous about Sarah Jane for about 5 minutes before they establish a friendship and begin bonding over their shared history with the doctor and the same can be said about her relationship with Martha.
    And she showed none of that with Donna in their shared ep either.

    Yet "fandom" will never forgive her for these perfectly normal human traits.

    Meanwhile Amy Pond can be in a similar triad and be a complete cow to everyone she meets, especially to Rory, and people praise her to high heaven
    There's really no equality in who fandom

    You're talking about the same segments of fandom who liken Amy to an antichrist half the time? Amy gets it just as bad as Rose does.
  • Granny McSmithGranny McSmith Posts: 19,622
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    Also she would have been quite happy to leave Jackie, her own mother,.

    It's called growing up.

    People do it all the time.

    Sad for the mother, but there it is.
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