Get the prisoners to clean the hospitals

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 00:37

Hospitals are filthy, particularly mental hospitals. Apparently prisoners need "education". Why not kill several birds with the same stone and "educate" priosoners in the art of using a mop and a bucket of hot soapy water and get them to clean the asylums. They'll also be equipped with skills for when they are released, and can get jobs swabbing out trains, railway stations and other public buildings!

[Deleted User] · 17/12/05 - 09:34

rogtog wrote:

Hospitals are filthy,

Well, I'm sure some are. Maybe I've just been lucky but the ones I've been in have been alright.

This is a nice idea but won't it put the existing domestics out of a job - it's not like hospitals don't already have cleaning staff. Some of them just need to do their jobs better.

Not sure I'd be too happy if I was a patient with convicted criminals brushing round my bed!

There's enough theft/violence in hospitals these days.

pelicano · 17/12/05 - 10:45

Erm.... as someone who works in the NHS, we spend a fortune having to vet potential staff to check they aren't criminals, your suggestion sounds a bit scary!! :eek:

Hamlet77 · 17/12/05 - 11:21

Initially it seems like a wonderful idea. So how about get the 'lags' to collect refuse as well and they could always repair roads, under supervision.

IN Fact why not replace all these workers with criminals.... See the problem, replacing workers with what would essentially be slave labour can hardly be expected in a civilised society, never mind the employees who would lose their jobs to be replaced by 'Chain Gangs'

[Deleted User] · 17/12/05 - 11:27

Pelicano...
Nail on head....
Can you imagine the chaos when clients start claiming that they have been robbed, just because they KNOW the staffs are criminals!!!

There are enough spongers out there trying to rob the NHS without adding to the litigation side

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 12:12

pelicano wrote:

Erm.... as someone who works in the NHS, we spend a fortune having to vet potential staff to check they aren't criminals, your suggestion sounds a bit scary!! :eek:

Well there's a hefty initial saving for the cash-strapped, ineptly-managed internal-market world of 'health care trusts'--the lags won't need to be vetted because they are known criminals. Obviously the nonces and the tea-leaves would need to be handled carefully---they could work in the boiler room, or the laundry, or clear up the leaves in the grounds--and the cleaning could be done by female convicts (obviously all the theives and psychotics would be seperated out). And as it would be a tad unwise to send them to supplement the work already done in hospitals without supervision, some screws and/or special constables could be used to keep an eye on them.

zx50 · 17/12/05 - 12:15

rogtog wrote:

Hospitals are filthy, particularly mental hospitals. Apparently prisoners need "education". Why not kill several birds with the same stone and "educate" priosoners in the art of using a mop and a bucket of hot soapy water and get them to clean the asylums. They'll also be equipped with skills for when they are released, and can get jobs swabbing out trains, railway stations and other public buildings!

Erm.....I really don't think i'd like violent offenders working near the ward where my wife/girlfriend was. Don't mind people who have been done for fraud and other petty little crimes....but once it comes to violence...nope. But.....maybe they'd go through this first though.

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 12:17

Hamlet77 wrote:

Initially it seems like a wonderful idea. So how about get the 'lags' to collect refuse as well and they could always repair roads, under supervision.

IN Fact why not replace all these workers with criminals.... See the problem, replacing workers with what would essentially be slave labour can hardly be expected in a civilised society, never mind the employees who would lose their jobs to be replaced by 'Chain Gangs'

Not *replace* but *suppplement*. Some prisoners could earn positions of trust within the scheme and be given a little more responsibility. Remember, imprisonment isn't *just* about punishment and retribution, there's also an element of rehabilitation ;-)

sim.mich · 17/12/05 - 12:36

Cleaning hospitals is a job with low enough status as it is even though the importance of cleanliness is given much coverage in the media to the point of hysteria. :mad:

Yes lets make people on low wages who work really hard cleaning our hospitals and earning an honest wage feel even more like shit by replacing some of them with the lowlife scum such as the ones who burgled my house the other week.

I've never heard as much b011(ks in my life! :mad:

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 12:52

sim.mich wrote:

Cleaning hospitals is a job with low enough status as it is even though the importance of cleanliness is given much coverage in the media to the point of hysteria. :mad:

Yes lets make people on low wages who work really hard cleaning our hospitals and earning an honest wage feel even more like shit by replacing some of them with the lowlife scum such as the ones who burgled my house the other week.

I've never heard as much b011(ks in my life! :mad:

Not *replace* but *supplement*. Obviously hospital cleaners are not up to the job because they haven't been trained properly, or because there isn't enough of them to do the work, or they are just crap (probably a combinatin of all three). Giving them some support/extra man power would help get the asylums clean.

BTW, how do you know that the person who redistributed some of your wealth wasn't also a hospital cleaner?

sim.mich · 17/12/05 - 13:02

I'm not a hospital cleaner, but I work alongside them as a student nurse and they are NOT crap. They do a very good job. All the hospital wards I have been on have been nothing short of spotlessly clean. The media are on a hospital ward cleaner bashing drive at the moment and it annoys me so much.

The visitors who shout the loudest about MRSA are usually the ones who haven't got a clue what it is (the number of times I see "virus MRSA" in the paper and want to scream!), and don't realise that they have a responsibility too. I've asked visitors countless times to gel their hands on the way in, despite the big red sign on the entrance.

I really can't see how prisoners will make this situation any better.

[Deleted User] · 17/12/05 - 13:17

Actually WTF do you lot know about WORKING in a hospital..

I challenge you to work as a cleaner in your local NHS/PCT run hospital and then come back here and comment on "HOW THE NHS SHOULD BE RUN"

You bunch of PC hypocrites...

Eraserhead · 17/12/05 - 13:20

Prisoners are busy already keeping England's prisons clean - and they mostly do a pretty good job, too.

Some prisons actually run NVQ training courses in Industrial Cleaning, so it's quite likely that an ex-con may well be sweeping and mopping the floors where you work, although I don't know if they'd employ them in a hospital with a criminal record.

It certainly wouldn't be a good idea to employ serving prisoners anywhere where people are weak, sick and vulnerable. Being in hospital is stressful enough and patients could do without the added stress of worrying whether the cleaner is going to nick their belongings, even if the prisoner is trustworthy and has no intention of doing so.

Contract cleaners already employed in the NHS do a good job on the whole but those that don't work hard will often get away with it because no-one is supervising them. I've been in my current workplace for 15 months and I've seen the cleaning manager just twice. Also, ward managers (senior nurses) seem to spend most of their day shut in offices and don't supervise anyone either. If no-one's watching what you're doing you're going to cut corners...

[Deleted User] · 17/12/05 - 14:19

rogtog wrote:

Obviously hospital cleaners are not up to the job because they haven't been trained properly,

Why is it 'obvious'?

If there are deficiencies in hospital cleanliness, maybe it's time to stop outsourcing cleaning work and bring it back under the direct control of the local NHS trusts. It's the modern culture of 'best value' (i.e. cheapest option at any cost) that is the main contributor to cleaning standards (or lack of) here. When you outsource, quality suffers.

because there isn't enough of them to do the work, or they are just crap (probably a combinatin of all three).

Can't comment on an individual's level of skill. But I'd imagine there aren't enough of them. Again, it's down to cost. The money needs to be allocated to get the job done properly. It's not the sort of thing that we can expect to happen on a shoestring without quality suffering.

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 15:05

sim.mich wrote:

I'm not a hospital cleaner, but I work alongside them as a student nurse and they are NOT crap. They do a very good job. All the hospital wards I have been on have been nothing short of spotlessly clean. The media are on a hospital ward cleaner bashing drive at the moment and it annoys me so much.
[...]
I really can't see how prisoners will make this situation any better.

Perhaps you're fortunate enough to be working in one of the hospitals that is not as filthy as some of those subjected to a recent spot-check. Mental hospitals were dirtier than normal hospitals, so it's probably safe to assume you are not training to be a psychiatric nurse in a dirty asylum.

Using prisoners to supplement the cleaning work done by those who are currently contracted to clean hospitals would make the situation better by providing more cleanining staff with the effect that more cleaning would be done. If more cleaning is done then there will be fewer uncleaned or inadequately cleaned hospitals/asylums, with the effect that hospitals and asylums would be cleaner :-)

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 15:08

stubo wrote:

Why is it 'obvious'?

It's 'obvious' (or even obvious) because hospitals and asylums are dirty. If cleaners are employed to clean and insufficient or inadequate cleaning is done, then it's *obvious* the cleaning is not being done adequately.

If there are deficiencies in hospital cleanliness, maybe it's time to stop outsourcing cleaning work and bring it back under the direct control of the local NHS trusts.

Would these be the same trusts that are on the verge of bankruptcy ... ? ;-)

Can't comment on an individual's level of skill. But I'd imagine there aren't enough of them.

Hence the suggestion to *boost* the number of cleaners by deploying the prison population :-)

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 15:10

Eraserhead wrote:

Prisoners are busy already keeping England's prisons clean - and they mostly do a pretty good job, too.

Some prisons actually run NVQ training courses in Industrial Cleaning, so it's quite likely that an ex-con may well be sweeping and mopping the floors where you work, although I don't know if they'd employ them in a hospital with a criminal record.

It certainly wouldn't be a good idea to employ serving prisoners anywhere where people are weak, sick and vulnerable. Being in hospital is stressful enough and patients could do without the added stress of worrying whether the cleaner is going to nick their belongings, even if the prisoner is trustworthy and has no intention of doing so.

Contract cleaners already employed in the NHS do a good job on the whole but those that don't work hard will often get away with it because no-one is supervising them. I've been in my current workplace for 15 months and I've seen the cleaning manager just twice. Also, ward managers (senior nurses) seem to spend most of their day shut in offices and don't supervise anyone either. If no-one's watching what you're doing you're going to cut corners...

That's why I suggested segregating the nonces and the tealeaves :-)

Also, the cons would need to be supervised, which is why I also suggested using screws and/or special constables for this purpose :-)

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 15:18

Psalm Sundae wrote:

Actually WTF do you lot know about WORKING in a hospital..

I challenge you to work as a cleaner in your local NHS/PCT run hospital and then come back here and comment on "HOW THE NHS SHOULD BE RUN"

You bunch of PC hypocrites...

Who are you calling a PC hippoocrat ... ? I'm neither a constable nor a ruling horse :-)

What's the point of your "challenge"?

Does one need to be a juggler to see that the balls are on the floor ... ?

[Deleted User] · 17/12/05 - 15:40

Prisoners should be cleaning the sides of highways...not hospitals.

[Deleted User] · 17/12/05 - 15:42

rogtog wrote:

It's 'obvious' (or even obvious) because hospitals and asylums are dirty.

Perhaps I've been lucky, but dirtiness is not something I've noticed when being in hospital. Do you believe my experience to be an exception and think that most hospitals are dirty?

Would these be the same trusts that are on the verge of bankruptcy ... ? ;-)

Most probably, yes.

Simple answer is they need the extra money. Or they need to ringfence existing budgets to finance proper cleaning. They's probably save money in the longrun through lower secondary infection rates.

Hence the suggestion to *boost* the number of cleaners by deploying the prison population :-)

Isn't that going to be a false economy though? You're going to have to pay prison warders/guards to keep watch on these criminals the whole time they're in the hospitals. Wouldn't it be just cheaper and simpler all round to use the money required to pay for the extra dedicated staff?

Also, most hospitals now require a Criminal Records Bureau check on all their staff (plus an enhanced check for those working with kids and the elderly). The CRB would have a field day if hospitals did what you suggest. If they were applying to be proper members of staff (even cleaners), most of them wouldn't get through the door. Would you apply different standards for these criminal cleaners?

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 15:43

_drak wrote:

Prisoners should be cleaning the sides of highways...not hospitals.

They could do that too ... there's enough of 'em! (the nonces could put the cones out!)

[Deleted User] · 17/12/05 - 15:50

rogtog wrote:

Hospitals are filthy, particularly mental hospitals.

I wouldn't know there not places I frequent often, but I'll bow to your experience.

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 16:04

Knock Knock wrote:

I wouldn't know there not places I frequent often, but I'll bow to your experience.

While you're down there, you might ask someone to read you this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4527990.stm

[Deleted User] · 17/12/05 - 16:22

rogtog wrote:

Who are you calling a PC hippoocrat ... ? I'm neither a constable nor a ruling horse :-)

What's the point of your "challenge"?

Does one need to be a juggler to see that the balls are on the floor ... ?

Just proves to me that you are cr@p at juggling...

Maybe you should be a NHS consultant and make sure the "balls" fall in your pocket instead of the "staff" that have to clean up after you!!

Do you work for the NHS on the ground level?

What qualifies you to claim they are less worthy than you?

rogtog · 17/12/05 - 17:35

Psalm Sundae wrote:

Just proves to me that you are cr@p at juggling... :.confused.:

I should think thast if *the juggler* drops the balls the juggler is crap. I don't need to *be* a juggler to see that the juggler is crap. Simialrly, if a hospital cleaner is unable to clean a hospital properly, the cleaner is crap. Do you need to hold a degree in Cleaning Studies to understand that?

What qualifies you to claim they are less worthy than you?

I'm not sure I recall suggesting that crap hospital cleaners were in any way less worthy than me .. or you, or indeed any other party ;-)

[Deleted User] · 17/12/05 - 17:49

rogtog wrote:

Simialrly, if a hospital cleaner is unable to clean a hospital properly, the cleaner is crap.

Could just as easily be crap management. Especially if the cleaner hasn't been given the time to do his/her job properly.

Hey there!

Quick Links

Get the prisoners to clean the hospitals

Comments