Jeremy Forrest guilty of child abduction

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  • JillstarJillstar Posts: 1,273
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    The thing that worries me about this case, whether Forrest is guilty or not, is the fact that he will get a longer jail sentence than what the likes of Stuart Hall and the other high profile child sex abuse cases in the last year or so have received.
    Yes, the girl was a minor and underage in the eyes of the law and he was in a position of responsibility and shouldn't have let it go on as it did, but from all accounts nothing happened against her will.
    Yet there are people who are only now being charged for offenses which happened years ago, which the victims have been too traumatised and frightened to speak up about.
    It doesn't seem right and fair that Forrest can be jailed for 5 and a half years for a relationship with a teenager that was reciprocated and get someone who allegedly abused many children against their will can only get 18 months!
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    Electra wrote: »
    As usual when these subjects crop up, it's quite disturbing to see how many people appear to regard 14/15 year old girls as fair game & 'old enough to know what they want'. Trust me, they're not.

    Problem is that plenty of 16, 17 and 18 year olds aren't either. The age of consent is be it's nature arbitrary.
  • steve781steve781 Posts: 1,128
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    Moontaker wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with him being punished but the length of sentence seems harsh, especially when a mother was sentenced to 30 months yesterday for putting her 6 day old baby girl in a bag and throwing her down a rubbish chute. The child has brain injuries and will need constant care for the rest of her life.

    Our justice system is a joke.

    I don't understand the logic behind this position. If you think the disparity between the sentences is wrong then you should support the raising of the latter not the lowering of the former.
  • steve781steve781 Posts: 1,128
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    Cryolemon wrote: »
    Problem is that plenty of 16, 17 and 18 year olds aren't either. The age of consent is be it's nature arbitrary.

    So is the drink driving limit. We don't let off drunks who drive responsibly so why should we let off a man in the very rare event (I don't believe this case was one of those by the way) that he has an entirely equal and non predatory relationship with an underage girl?
  • PamthehoundPamthehound Posts: 5,333
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    The whole thing has been spun out of control and I see the handwringers and self appointed morality brigade are coming out of the woodwork. He did wrong , should have waited until she was 16 ..period.

    However she is not the first school girl to have a crush on her teacher ( wasnt there a Lesbian case recently and she got a suspended) and he wasnt the last to succumb to the flesh. Its being happening since schools began and Im sure even today there are and has been thousands of similar cases not reported or even acted upon but dealt with very quitely by the school and family.
  • LiamforkingLiamforking Posts: 1,641
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    steve781 wrote: »
    The meaning of words is not static, it changes over time if enough people use them to mean different things. It ought to be noted that this didn't start when she was a few week short of 16 as many wrongly allege but when she was only fourteen. He was also known to have an interest in several other girls the same age
    In any case, it is odd that society is so hysterical about sex with minors in certain instances and yet so relaxed in others. Our reaction ought to be somewhere in between lynch mobs and shrugging.

    So will people start calling me a paedophile next week because I can play the guitar? Or what if I get my hair cut the week after that?

    Words have a set meaning because we'd lose the ability to communicate otherwise. You're simply making excuses for the sensationalism of moronic tabloid journalists.

    Also would this exact same man have been a paedophile if he's had sex with a Spanish 15 year old, where the age of consent is 14?
    Whether someone is a paedophile is determined by the biological age of the minor, NOT written down laws.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    steve781 wrote: »
    So is the drink driving limit. We don't let off drunks who drive responsibly so why should we let off a man in the very rare event (I don't believe this case was one of those by the way) that he has an entirely equal and non predatory relationship with an underage girl?

    Not necessarily let them off, but ideally it would be taken into account. Doing that is easier said than done though.
  • steve781steve781 Posts: 1,128
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    So will people start calling me a paedophile next week because I can play the guitar? Or what if I get my hair cut the week after that?

    Words have a set meaning because we'd lose the ability to communicate otherwise. You're simply making excuses for the sensationalism of moronic tabloid journalists.

    I'm not in favour of hunting down the paedos and lynching them Sun style. I'm just disgusted by the "it doesn't matter" brigade.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    Also would this exact same man have been a paedophile if he's had sex with a Spanish 15 year old, where the age of consent is 14?

    Legally he may still have been, because when it comes to sex offences I believe you can be convicted in the UK even if the victim is over the age of consent in the place it happens.
  • LiamforkingLiamforking Posts: 1,641
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    d'@ve wrote: »
    What about say a 6 year old child going willingly off to France with a friendly neighbour (or teacher) that she liked, without the parent's permission or knowledge? Or a 9 year old, 12 or 13 year old? I don't think many people would argue against all of them being abduction!

    The line has to be drawn somewhere
    , that line is 16 (and 18 for the sexual activities with which he wasn't charged, possibly due to arrest warrant technicalities) and he very well knew that. That's it.

    You're clearly forgetting about the natural biological line of puberty, which is far more important and real than any laws we choose to write down.
  • MoonyMoony Posts: 15,093
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    However she is not the first school girl to have a crush on her teacher ( wasnt there a Lesbian case recently and she got a suspended) and he wasnt the last to succumb to the flesh. Its being happening since schools began and Im sure even today there are and has been thousands of similar cases not reported or even acted upon but dealt with very quitely by the school and family.

    I linked to a case like that earlier in the thread - if its the same case - she got 15 months.

    In another case - a female teacher had sex with multiple male pupils in her care - and she got 2 1/2 years.
  • RogerBaileyRogerBailey Posts: 1,959
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    I saw him leaving court on the news today. I wondered what on earth he was smirking at the camera for. What is this man all about!?!
  • LiamforkingLiamforking Posts: 1,641
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    steve781 wrote: »
    I'm not in favour of hunting down the paedos and lynching them Sun style. I'm just disgusted by the "it doesn't matter" brigade.

    I agree, it does matter very much. This man abused his position of trust and should be imprisoned for a year and never be allowed to work as a teacher again.
    But he does not deserve to be wrongly branded a paedophile (probably the worst thing you could ever call someone) by a bunch of ill-educated tabloid dunces.

    I saw a security image of these two online as they were fleeing England and though the girl's face was pixellated, her very ample chest wasn't. She is a million miles away from being a child. Ridiculous.
  • aggsaggs Posts: 29,458
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    The whole thing has been spun out of control and I see the handwringers and self appointed morality brigade are coming out of the woodwork. He did wrong , should have waited until she was 16 ..period.

    However she is not the first school girl to have a crush on her teacher ( wasnt there a Lesbian case recently and she got a suspended) and he wasnt the last to succumb to the flesh. Its being happening since schools began and Im sure even today there are and has been thousands of similar cases not reported or even acted upon but dealt with very quitely by the school and family.

    Indeed - and if they hadn't decided that hieing off to France was a grand idea to get themselves out of the hole they had dug for themselves then this case probably would as well.

    It was obviously going to come out but there is a difference between being a 9 day wonder in the local area and paper and having your face plastered as a missing person across 2 countries with both Police forces looking for you.

    However, once you get in to the territory of EAW's and joint country investigations then there is a juggernaut bowling down a hill that cannot be stopped.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    I saw him leaving court on the news today. I wondered what on earth he was smirking at the camera for. What is this man all about!?!

    He comes across as a bit socially awkward.
  • WellHiddenMarkWellHiddenMark Posts: 1,797
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    In a country where drunken blokes and single mothers are getting 4 months for making ridiculous posts on Facebook, he got off lightly.

    Surprised he didn't get the "Full 7"

    "Lessons have been learned'"

    "This sends the sternest warning to those who..."
  • aggsaggs Posts: 29,458
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    Also would this exact same man have been a paedophile if he's had sex with a Spanish 15 year old, where the age of consent is 14?
    Whether someone is a paedophile is determined by the biological age of the minor, NOT written down laws.

    I suppose it depends on whether he was in Spain - and also whether her parents/legal guardian registered a complaint:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Spain
    The age of consent in Spain is 13, as specified by the Spanish Penal Code, Article 181(2). However, if deceit is used in gaining the consent of a minor under 16 years an individual can be charged under Article 183(1) upon parental complaint.
  • MoontakerMoontaker Posts: 3,066
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    steve781 wrote: »
    I don't understand the logic behind this position. If you think the disparity between the sentences is wrong then you should support the raising of the latter not the lowering of the former.

    I thought my logic was obvious but I'll make it clearer. A woman gets 30 months for cruelly throwing her baby down a rubbish chute, that makes no sense to in comparison to the sentence we're discussing. As I said I think he should be punished.

    And btw thanks for telling me what I SHOULD do, I've obviously misunderstood the purpose of a forum.
  • WellHiddenMarkWellHiddenMark Posts: 1,797
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    Also would this exact same man have been a paedophile if he's had sex with a Spanish 15 year old, where the age of consent is 13?

    Fixed that for you
    Whether someone is a paedophile is determined by the biological age of the minor, NOT written down laws.

    Correct. Having sex with an individual who has gone through puberty is not paedophilia, it is ephebophilia, but that's far too complicated a word or concept for morons to deal with.
  • ElectraElectra Posts: 55,660
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    Anyone who thinks girls aren't under a lot of pressure to be sexual, really needs to read this article

    What happened when I started a feminist society at school

    We wanted to challenge sexist behaviour – but we unleashed a flood of abuse from our male peers

    I am 17 years old and I am a feminist. I believe in gender equality, and am under no illusion about how far we are from achieving it. Identifying as a feminist has become particularly important to me since a school trip I took to Cambridge last year.

    A group of men in a car started wolf-whistling and shouting sexual remarks at my friends and me. I asked the men if they thought it was appropriate for them to be abusing a group of 17-year-old girls. The response was furious. The men started swearing at me, called me a bitch and threw a cup coffee over me.

    For those men we were just legs, breasts and pretty faces. Speaking up shattered their fantasy, and they responded violently to my voice.

    Shockingly, the boys in my peer group have responded in exactly the same way to my feminism.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/mortarboard/2013/jun/20/why-i-started-a-feminist-society
  • Baz OBaz O Posts: 1,642
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    I am surprised he got more than Stuart Hall because in my opinion there is no comparison.
  • steve781steve781 Posts: 1,128
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    aggs wrote: »
    I suppose it depends on whether he was in Spain - and also whether her parents/legal guardian registered a complaint:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Spain

    Spain has a low age of consent because it doesn't need a higher one. The strength of family and community mean that girls are not really at risk of early sexual activity. But most Spaniards disapprove of relationships with13 year old girls as much as we do.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    Baz O wrote: »
    I am surprised he got more than Stuart Hall because in my opinion there is no comparison.

    I'm not surprised he got longer, but it's a bit daft.
  • End-Em-AllEnd-Em-All Posts: 23,629
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    Does any one know if mention has been made anywhere of her dad? Has he spoken out?
  • Jen-BJen-B Posts: 3,412
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    I agree, it does matter very much. This man abused his position of trust and should be imprisoned for a year and never be allowed to work as a teacher again.
    But he does not deserve to be wrongly branded a paedophile (probably the worst thing you could ever call someone) by a bunch of ill-educated tabloid dunces.

    I saw a security image of these two online as they were fleeing England and though the girl's face was pixellated, her very ample chest wasn't. She is a million miles away from being a child. Ridiculous.

    What the...? Just because a girl is physically mature doesn't make her emotionally mature. Probably a bit TMI, but I had started my periods before I left primary school, I had quite an "ample chest" too, if a teacher had take me away like he did, would I have been called mature then? I doubt it, but that's what you're saying. I bloody well wasn't emotionally mature, even if my body was.

    Most of these girls have the body of an adult, but the mind of a child. 14/15 is still a child, for goodness' sake!
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