I'm not worried. They've spent plenty of time in the studio where I'm sure lots of the Martin and Louisa interaction takes place. I'm betting on an emotional and sexy reconciliation....can't wait.
OMG. Am I the only one who finds it completely unfunny that Mrs. T is still bothering DM? I cannot believe the show's creators cannot see a dead storyline yet. Though its probably obvious that she and Clive will be driving off into the sunset at some point during the series. The destruction of Mrs. T was one of the worst decisions the show made. I'm neither looking forward to Mrs. T stalking DM nor to Penhale being an idiot policeman, so I hope at least they do not have that going on.
I completely agree! The "destruction" of the character is exactly what it is. - Well put. I really had hoped - and sort of expected - that we had seen the last of Mrs T. Her character became a shell of herself. It was really sad when she was chasing the Doc in series 6. They could have turned her around in series 6 and allowed the character to lose her obsession with Martin. They have removed all of her integrity as a character in my opinion. I'm sorry she is back.
I'm not worried. They've spent plenty of time in the studio where I'm sure lots of the Martin and Louisa interaction takes place. I'm betting on an emotional and sexy reconciliation....can't wait.
I've put my money on the sexy reconciliation too many times to bet on that horse again. I hope you're right about it, though!
A question was asked a few days ago in one of the FB groups where US viewers live and got a large response. I thought it might be nice to organize this information, but on a worldwide basis. So I have put a link on the Home page of PortwennOnline for this survey. I plan to leave it up for the foreseeable future to catch anyone who finds their way to the site and hope to gather the information from DM viewers from the various online forums. Please take a minute to go to the site and take the survey - and feel free to pass this on to any groups you may belong to.
I plan to chart where the viewers are in the UK by region, US by state, Canada by province/territory, Australia/New Zealand by state/territory/country and Europe, Latin America and South America by country. There is also an "Other" category and I will add additional continents as I receive responses. Once I start to get a significant response I will populate the maps and charts.
saw filming at Port Gaverne a few days ago and the storyline is repetitive. Martin and Louisa arrive for a picnic on the beach with James in a buggy. They aren't talking, but seem to be trying something the marriage counselor suggested to have family time together. Others at the beach wear shorts and beachwear yet Martin wears a suit and Louisa a dress and heels more
appropriate for a wedding Martin soon annoys a young womanby telling her to cover her skin to reduce sunburn, the woman shouts at Martin, frightening the baby who cries, and Louisa flounces off clearly annoyed with Martin
A later sequence shows Martin and Penhale chasing Carolyn Quentin, as an animal control officer, and Buddy, the dog, into the water.
Penhale is called away from the nearby police station where genus having a barbecue with Al Large, Morwenna and the new very nice young woman who looks about Morwenna's age
Only clue is baby about the same age as end of S 6 , Martin and Louisa not getting on and repeated beach rescues and unsolicited medical advice from previous seasons.
saw filming at Port Gaverne a few days ago and the storyline is repetitive. Martin and Louisa arrive for a picnic on the beach with James in a buggy. They aren't talking, but seem to be trying something the marriage counselor suggested to have family time together. Others at the beach wear shorts and beachwear yet Martin wears a suit and Louisa a dress and heels more
appropriate for a wedding Martin soon annoys a young womanby telling her to cover her skin to reduce sunburn, the woman shouts at Martin, frightening the baby who cries, and Louisa flounces off clearly annoyed with Martin
A later sequence shows Martin and Penhale chasing Carolyn Quentin, as an animal control officer, and Buddy, the dog, into the water.
Penhale is called away from the nearby police station where genus having a barbecue with Al Large, Morwenna and the new very nice young woman who looks about Morwenna's age
Only clue is baby about the same age as end of S 6 , Martin and Louisa not getting on and repeated beach rescues and unsolicited medical advice from previous seasons.
It's going down to the wire. We ought to have a pool on the exact minute/second of E8 they reconcile. I'd take 42 minutes 50 seconds.
Perverse of me, perhaps, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of "come-to-Jesus" moment in which Martin tells Louisa that he's tried his best, he wants to be with her but if she can't make up her mind to take him as he is or see the changes he's trying to make, then he's ready to call it quits. Perhaps with another job offer in Truro or Exeter or even London, to up the ante.
I guess I don't want to see him essentially groveling, as if the entire blame for their marriage is his to shoulder and all the mistakes are his to correct.
Perverse of me, perhaps, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of "come-to-Jesus" moment in which Martin tells Louisa that he's tried his best, he wants to be with her but if she can't make up her mind to take him as he is or see the changes he's trying to make, then he's ready to call it quits. Perhaps with another job offer in Truro or Exeter or even London, to up the ante.
I guess I don't want to see him essentially groveling, as if the entire blame for their marriage is his to shoulder and all the mistakes are his to correct.
Interesting point, NewPark. It would be an unexpected twist, although it would seem like a bit of an empty threat since Portwenn/Port Isaac is (one of) the show's leading character(s) and I really don't see how they could carry the show in another location.
However, has Martin really made a visible effort to change? I mean, we saw a moment of it at the castle in S5E8, and a little bit of it on the honeymoon (dancing at the wedding, talking about the tropical vacation Louisa would have wanted, etc.), and the disastrous result when he invited Dennis and Karen for dinner in S6E2. But that hardly seems enough to demand an all-or-nothing decision from Louisa.
Don't get me wrong, I think that they *both* have a lot to work on, and Louisa certainly has to admit her contributions to the demise of their marriage, but unless I see some significant, consistent attempts for Martin to be kinder, more affectionate, and compassionate, I really can't say he's done enough to justify an ultimatum of that extent.
I'm not asking him to be Prince Charming ("Oh, my darling Louisa, you are the love of my life... come and let me shower you with roses and kisses and public declarations of my adoration..." - NOT! ). Just something more reliable - a consistent effort to refrain from scolding and lectures, some tenderness and physical affection, and an acceptance, or at least a tolerance, that Louisa's role and history in the village means there will be social events and interactions in which he will be expected to partake. Doesn't mean he has to be the life of the party, just to be civil and refrain from sneering at everyone and everything!
If he's really making that kind of an effort, and Louisa is unwilling/unable to acknowledge it, and if she's still making unreasonable demands of her husband, then yes, by all means, let's see Doc stand up for his own sense of self-worth and call Louisa out.
A question was asked a few days ago in one of the FB groups where US viewers live and got a large response. I thought it might be nice to organize this information, but on a worldwide basis. So I have put a link on the Home page of PortwennOnline for this survey. I plan to leave it up for the foreseeable future to catch anyone who finds their way to the site and hope to gather the information from DM viewers from the various online forums. Please take a minute to go to the site and take the survey - and feel free to pass this on to any groups you may belong to.
I plan to chart where the viewers are in the UK by region, US by state, Canada by province/territory, Australia/New Zealand by state/territory/country and Europe, Latin America and South America by country. There is also an "Other" category and I will add additional continents as I receive responses. Once I start to get a significant response I will populate the maps and charts.
I received an interesting response last night but no way to know who it is from or how to contact the person so I decided to post here. The person suggested that by not including a map of the Middle East or Asia, I'm missing the majority of the world's population. I do realize that, but in the years that these FB groups (and DS) have been rolling, I don't recall seeing anyone from those areas identify themselves. There are probably two good reasons for that. 1 - I suspect that DM isn't playing in many of those areas. 2 - The language barrier would suggest that they might not post on English speaking FB pages or websites. That said, if there are viewers from those areas who post their locations in the "Other" area of the survey, I plan to add maps showing their locations. This is a fluid survey and I will adjust as we go along. Thanks for your patience!
Interesting point, NewPark. It would be an unexpected twist, although it would seem like a bit of an empty threat since Portwenn/Port Isaac is (one of) the show's leading character(s) and I really don't see how they could carry the show in another location.
However, has Martin really made a visible effort to change? I mean, we saw a moment of it at the castle in S5E8, and a little bit of it on the honeymoon (dancing at the wedding, talking about the tropical vacation Louisa would have wanted, etc.), and the disastrous result when he invited Dennis and Karen for dinner in S6E2. But that hardly seems enough to demand an all-or-nothing decision from Louisa.
Don't get me wrong, I think that they *both* have a lot to work on, and Louisa certainly has to admit her contributions to the demise of their marriage, but unless I see some significant, consistent attempts for Martin to be kinder, more affectionate, and compassionate, I really can't say he's done enough to justify an ultimatum of that extent.
I'm not asking him to be Prince Charming ("Oh, my darling Louisa, you are the love of my life... come and let me shower you with roses and kisses and public declarations of my adoration..." - NOT! ). Just something more reliable - a consistent effort to refrain from scolding and lectures, some tenderness and physical affection, and an acceptance, or at least a tolerance, that Louisa's role and history in the village means there will be social events and interactions in which he will be expected to partake. Doesn't mean he has to be the life of the party, just to be civil and refrain from sneering at everyone and everything!
If he's really making that kind of an effort, and Louisa is unwilling/unable to acknowledge it, and if she's still making unreasonable demands of her husband, then yes, by all means, let's see Doc stand up for his own sense of self-worth and call Louisa out.
I really hope it doesn't come to that, though!
I agree, Earlgrey, that we have to see him making some kind of consistent effort
and so far we haven't seen much evidence of that.
He's very motivated. and he can change his behavior, to a degree, if he knows what is wanted, but probably not basically who he is.
That said, I think there's a fine line between when he's done all that we (or Louisa) can reasonably expect of him, given who he is and his track record, and what Louisa can accept. At some point, her decision has to be, if this is the best he can do, can I accept it and him. I think she'll waffle a good bit before ultimately deciding that it'll have to be enough. And it may come down in the end to some kind of crisis precipitating her decision (BP has a way of doing that) -- one possibility is certainly Martin requesting her to fish or cut bait.
But, I think he is too enthralled by her, and too uncertain that he really "deserves" her, to risk doing that. Still, I'd like to see him have enough confidence to be able to do it, if necessary.
I don't disagree, though, that he has a lot of work to do before he's entitled to get to that point!
I agree, Earlgrey, that we have to see him making some kind of consistent effort
and so far we haven't seen much evidence of that.
He's very motivated. and he can change his behavior, to a degree, if he knows what is wanted, but probably not basically who he is.
That said, I think there's a fine line between when he's done all that we (or Louisa) can reasonably expect of him, given who he is and his track record, and what Louisa can accept. At some point, her decision has to be, if this is the best he can do, can I accept it and him. I think she'll waffle a good bit before ultimately deciding that it'll have to be enough. And it may come down in the end to some kind of crisis precipitating her decision (BP has a way of doing that) -- one possibility is certainly Martin requesting her to fish or cut bait.
But, I think he is too enthralled by her, and too uncertain that he really "deserves" her, to risk doing that. Still, I'd like to see him have enough confidence to be able to do it, if necessary.
I don't disagree, though, that he has a lot of work to do before he's entitled to get to that point!
He's too enthralled with her? NewPark, you're funny. And - just what has Louisa done in the marriage that she has to own up to?
As I saw it, she was guilty of being preoccupied with the new baby and returning to work but it didn't hamper her ability to see that he needed a push to try to "look" as if he was engaged with the baby and others.
When she would leave in the morning, she would wish all well and give kisses or smiles (remember) .When she returned later in the day, she would greet all with smiles and enthusiasm. Remember? Shall I recall/name the scenes by episode??
Hold up...I do remember that she was testy in the E 2 and possibly E3; she missed the baby and didn't exactly warm to Mike, initially.
We witness the worried looks and glances for Martin (as the series progressed) and she encouraged him to seek help, etc. She entertained his Mum, and happily cooked meals (we assume) and tidied up. She even coaxed him to take Ruth for a birthday lunch.
Whoops...she even kissed him ! In the bed! Brave Louisa! Were there any other cuddles? Nope. Not one. Infact, he didn't sleep in their bed.
Martin was absent. After E 2, he was mostly silent and brooding. He wasn't aware of her much at all; entering a room, leaving a room, he couldn't have cared less. He checked out. He looked and behaved as if he was the unhappiest man in town.
Louisa is married to a joyless, humorless, cold, impertinent man. Wait, one more. He's cheap and tight-fisted. Is there anything more unattractive than a man who is stingy?
Louisa is not perfect. She has issues but she tried and was "present" in the marriage. Could she benefit from marriage counseling? Yes and she could learn to communicate more effectively.
You have, NP, before stated your unhappiness with her. I think you might have even used the word angry when referencing Louisa.
Martin doesn't seem to provoke that level of discontent from you. I find that remarkable. When will some hold him to the same standard as they use when judging Louisa. Just asking....
Some may defend Martin and remark that she knew what he was before marrying him. There is truth there but he made this grand overture of devotion to her at the end of S5. His level of dysfunction really accelerated in S6 which then led to the total breakdown of the marriage.
Martin has positive attributes and strengths which drew Louisa to him. She loves him without a doubt. These two people need to actively become interested in the other, exercise trust and intimacy with one another and communicate openly and honestly.
And - do it with kindness and some disarming humor. The love and respect is there, imo. Trust??? HIs motivation and "words of devotion" have proven to be risky. I don't fault her for needing more time before she leaps into his lovin' arms. ;-)
He's too enthralled with her? NewPark, you're funny. And - just what has Louisa done in the marriage that she has to own up to?
As I saw it, she was guilty of being preoccupied with the new baby and returning to work but it didn't hamper her ability to see that he needed a push to try to "look" as if he was engaged with the baby and others.
When she would leave in the morning, she would wish all well and give kisses or smiles (remember) .When she returned later in the day, she would greet all with smiles and enthusiasm. Remember? Shall I recall/name the scenes by episode??
Hold up...I do remember that she was testy in the E 2 and possibly E3; she missed the baby and didn't exactly warm to Mike, initially.
We witness the worried looks and glances for Martin (as the series progressed) and she encouraged him to seek help, etc. She entertained his Mum, and happily cooked meals (we assume) and tidied up. She even coaxed him to take Ruth for a birthday lunch.
Whoops...she even kissed him ! In the bed! Brave Louisa! Were there any other cuddles? Nope. Not one. Infact, he didn't sleep in their bed.
Martin was absent. After E 2, he was mostly silent and brooding. He wasn't aware of her much at all; entering a room, leaving a room, he couldn't have cared less. He checked out. He looked and behaved as if he was the unhappiest man in town.
Louisa is married to a joyless, humorless, cold, impertinent man. Wait, one more. He's cheap and tight-fisted. Is there anything more unattractive than a man who is stingy?
Louisa is not perfect. She has issues but she tried and was "present" in the marriage. Could she benefit from marriage counseling? Yes and she could learn to communicate more effectively.
You have, NP, before stated your unhappiness with her. I think you might have even used the word angry when referencing Louisa.
Martin doesn't seem to provoke that level of discontent from you. I find that remarkable. When will some hold him to the same standard as they use when judging Louisa. Just asking....
Some may defend Martin and remark that she knew what he was before marrying him. There is truth there but he made this grand overture of devotion to her at the end of S5. His level of dysfunction really accelerated in S6 which then led to the total breakdown of the marriage.
Martin has positive attributes and strengths which drew Louisa to him. She loves him without a doubt. These two people need to actively become interested in the other, exercise trust and intimacy with one another and communicate openly and honestly.
And - do it with kindness and some disarming humor. The love and respect is there, imo. Trust??? HIs motivation and "words of devotion" have proven to be risky. I don't fault her for needing more time before she leaps into his lovin' arms. ;-)
Really, I don't fault her for wanting to see deeds as well as words, this time. I just think there will come a time when she has to take another leap of faith. He'll try, but some habits and traits are just too ingrained to shift much in a few weeks or months.
I also agree that the character we saw in S6, if he continues that way, is a pretty grim prospect for a marriage partner. I think we won't see that guy very much in S7, if at all, but a reversion to the sort of normally "difficult man" and "idiot" that we've seen all along. It will take, and probably it should take, some time for Louisa to believe that whatever change we see is real and lasting.
I do try to be "fair and balanced." I've spent a fair amount of time here defending Louisa, on the grounds you cite. I do feel like she might have noticed his funk a bit earlier, reached out more aggressively, taken things a little less personally and confronted him more directly. But she has less to "change" than he has.
In the end, of course, it was his breakdown that precipitated the crisis in their marriage.
He is besotted with her, as Martin Clunes has said. . While he is tactless and blunt about some issues with her, and high-handed, he either can't find anything to criticize about their marital arrangements, or suppresses his discontents for fear of upsetting the apple cart. I think we're meant to take AR's diagnois as key = "You don't think you deserve her." Nothing good in a relationship can follow from that. I want him to get to the point where he believes he does deserve Louisa, so that they can deal with each as equals -- adult to adult, instead of parent-child, ( both of them interchangeably) or child to child.
These two people need to actively become interested in the other
Martin and Louisa are so far from showing any interest in each other and haven't really shown interest in each other over the past 2-3 seasons. They've behaved like they're "stuck" with each other to the point of seeming resentful. I miss the "feeling" you got as a viewer from earlier seasons. Martin living to "catch a glimpse of her" or her wanting him to accompany her to an event or activity.
Martin and Louisa are so far from showing any interest in each other and haven't really shown interest in each other over the past 2-3 seasons. They've behaved like they're "stuck" with each other to the point of seeming resentful. I miss the "feeling" you got as a viewer from earlier seasons. Martin living to "catch a glimpse of her" or her wanting him to accompany her to an event or activity.
Agree - I see this more in his behavior and since S4 he has shown little affection for her. He tolerates her. She did the same, at times, in part of S5. She made more attempts towards him (affection) in S6 and smiled more, etc.
PBS just played S6 8 this week in my area. I wondered why did he just walk out from her room in that last scene. What was the hurry? He had told her (while saving her) how he wants to be a better husband. Couldn't he have stayed with her and reassured her a just little more. She looked so sad when he left. I was sad for her
saw filming at Port Gaverne a few days ago and the storyline is repetitive. Martin and Louisa arrive for a picnic on the beach with James in a buggy. They aren't talking, but seem to be trying something the marriage counselor suggested to have family time together. Others at the beach wear shorts and beachwear yet Martin wears a suit and Louisa a dress and heels more
appropriate for a wedding Martin soon annoys a young womanby telling her to cover her skin to reduce sunburn, the woman shouts at Martin, frightening the baby who cries, and Louisa flounces off clearly annoyed with Martin
A later sequence shows Martin and Penhale chasing Carolyn Quentin, as an animal control officer, and Buddy, the dog, into the water.
Penhale is called away from the nearby police station where genus having a barbecue with Al Large, Morwenna and the new very nice young woman who looks about Morwenna's age
Only clue is baby about the same age as end of S 6 , Martin and Louisa not getting on and repeated beach rescues and unsolicited medical advice from previous seasons.
Oy, this is what I worry about. These are terrible signs the series has almost completely run out of creativity and is just in a repetitive loop of already seen, been there, watched that scenes. Darn.
NewPark states: I also agree that the character we saw in S6, if he continues that way, is a pretty grim prospect for a marriage partner. I think we won't see that guy very much in S7, if at all, but a reversion to the sort of normally "difficult man" and "idiot" that we've seen all along. It will take, and probably it should take, some time for Louisa to believe that whatever change we see is real and lasting.
LOL - idiot ?!! Yes - but he was an adorable idiot.
Agree - I see this more in his behavior and since S4 he has shown little affection for her. He tolerates her. She did the same, at times, in part of S5. She made more attempts towards him (affection) in S6 and smiled more, etc.
PBS just played S6 8 this week in my area. I wondered why did he just walk out from her room in that last scene. What was the hurry? He had told her (while saving her) how he wants to be a better husband. Couldn't he have stayed with her and reassured her a just little more. She looked so sad when he left. I was sad for her
I know. The very end just didn't line up with what had just transpired. I would have thought he would have at least stayed, maybe taken her hand and fade to black without anything else needing to be said....all I can think is that it followed more in line with the conversation he had with Ruth who pointed out to him that he didn't think he deserved Louisa, and also the fact that she wanted some space even though he had said he would care for her at home after her accident. He literally walked away giving her the space she wanted (even though it seems like maybe she didn't want it after what had just happened with the lifesaving surgery).
I had the same feelings of sadness as he walked out of the room in that last scene. I could feel her emotional pain and it left me feeling perplexed too.
Oy, this is what I worry about. These are terrible signs the series has almost completely run out of creativity and is just in a repetitive loop of already seen, been there, watched that scenes. Darn.
I'm hopeful we are wrong about everything...we already know how tricky BP can be with this even though some of us have seen the pics and heard stories from those who have been there. Part of me doesn't want to presume anything and enjoy what comes.
I know. The very end just didn't line up with what had just transpired. I would have thought he would have at least stayed, maybe taken her hand and fade to black without anything else needing to be said....all I can think is that it followed more in line with the conversation he had with Ruth who pointed out to him that he didn't think he deserved Louisa, and also the fact that she wanted some space even though he had said he would care for her at home after her accident. He literally walked away giving her the space she wanted (even though it seems like maybe she didn't want it after what had just happened with the lifesaving surgery).
I had the same feelings of sadness as he walked out of the room in that last scene. I could feel her emotional pain and it left me feeling perplexed too.
Nothing in DM has perplexed me as much as that last scene. Did she just tell him that nothing's changed and she still wants a separation? Or did she tell him that nothing's changed, their marriage is in lousy shape, they'll have to work harder on it? Did she not hear the "better husband" speech, or just not believe it? Or have lost faith entirely in the possibility that he could be a "better husband" ? Did he agree to a separation? Why in the world didn't he repeat the "better husband" speech and sit down with her, say something, anything, lovingly? He's supposed to have had this major insight and that's the best he can do with it?
Like so much of DM, I think the closer you examine it, the less sense it makes. In this case, I think that whole scene was masterfully crafted to create maximum ambiguity, without much reference to plausibility.
Similarly, it just doesn't make sense to me that a woman who's been married about 3 months, would just decide that the whole thing isn't working and she needs a lot more space, with the clear indication that she's not coming back until she's good and ready, which may very well be never. Yes, he's behaved badly and shut her out, but the response to that is to bail without any serious confrontation, discussion, etc.? Maybe they would have had the confrontation that night, if the whole Sports Day fiasco hadn't taken place.
Personally, I don't get it. But it makes for compelling drama (for some -- for others of us, it's getting pretty old).
NPark:
Similarly, it just doesn't make sense to me that a woman who's been married about 3 months, would just decide that the whole thing isn't working and she needs a lot more space, with the clear indication that she's not coming back until she's good and ready, which may very well be never. Yes, he's behaved badly and shut her out, but the response to that is to bail without any serious confrontation, discussion, etc.? Maybe they would have had the confrontation that night, if the whole Sports Day fiasco hadn't taken place.
Personally, I don't get it. But it makes for compelling drama (for some -- for others of us, it's getting pretty old).
I feel old watching it and they're getting old period. I couldn't resist - I must respond NP.
I'm not stalking you, promise!
Louisa to Martin (in taxi): Martin, we've been through all this.
She made the decision in the hospital. What was left to say (see below).
I guess they talked and talked about her taking a break and going to Spain when she returned that night. We had to assume that she was coming back in time for new term/school. There was no hint at all that she was leaving for good.
We know what preceeded this was his rejection to go away and be together. He had no time for her. Ouch.
The Sport's Day humiliation. He had no time for any of it. Double Ouch.
The accident. Major ouch.
The bathroom scene is the one that I couldn't quite read. Initially, I thought she was waiting for him to say "don't leave." Others say she just didn't want to have the hurtful conversation again. I think at second look, she wanted him to say "I want to go with you." He said, instead, "my first patient is here."
NPark:
Similarly, it just doesn't make sense to me that a woman who's been married about 3 months, would just decide that the whole thing isn't working and she needs a lot more space, with the clear indication that she's not coming back until she's good and ready, which may very well be never. Yes, he's behaved badly and shut her out, but the response to that is to bail without any serious confrontation, discussion, etc.? Maybe they would have had the confrontation that night, if the whole Sports Day fiasco hadn't taken place.
Personally, I don't get it. But it makes for compelling drama (for some -- for others of us, it's getting pretty old).
I feel old watching it and they're getting old period. I couldn't resist - I must respond NP.
I'm not stalking you, promise!
Louisa to Martin (in taxi): Martin, we've been through all this.
She made the decision in the hospital. What was left to say (see below).
I guess they talked and talked about her taking a break and going to Spain when she returned that night. We had to assume that she was coming back in time for new term/school. There was no hint at all that she was leaving for good.
We know what preceeded this was his rejection to go away and be together. He had no time for her. Ouch.
The Sport's Day humiliation. He had no time for any of it. Double Ouch.
The accident. Major ouch.
The bathroom scene is the one that I couldn't quite read. Initially, I thought she was waiting for him to say "don't leave." Others say she just didn't want to have the hurtful conversation again. I think at second look, she wanted him to say "I want to go with you." He said, instead, "my first patient is here."
Then again - who knows?
I repeat what I said before: when analyzed, these events just don't parse. Not plausibly. I'm not sure they are meant to. Perhaps we're just supposed to be left in the same state of confused sadness as our protagonists.
I could write a lengthy essay on this but will spare you (and everybody else). Just:
I think she's given up on him. I think she knows he loves her, but can't let be in an intimate relationship. I think she's gone away to think about whether or not she wants to try again, with the odds being that she'll decide that she doesn't. She might hope that somehow he could break through and give her some reason to believe that trying again would be worthwhile, but she doesn't think it's possible. (I think that's the scene in the bathroom, and that the night before the conversation was about how irrational the trip to Spain was, in his view, and not at all about his remorse and love for her.)
I'm pretty sure that if she heard the "better husband" speech at all, it just became one factor in the decision-making that she knows is in front of her. Does she believe him, or trust him? Why should she? So, I think in the end, she's going to go through with a decision to have a trial separation, which very often is the death knell of a marriage, and both know it. Hence, the sadness.
They have to separate, logically, because otherwise Martin won't have to work to "get her back" which MC has said a couple of times, is the theme of S7.
I repeat what I said before: when analyzed, these events just don't parse. Not plausibly. I'm not sure they are meant to. Perhaps we're just supposed to be left in the same state of confused sadness as our protagonists.
I could write a lengthy essay on this but will spare you (and everybody else). Just:
I think she's given up on him. I think she knows he loves her, but can't let be in an intimate relationship. I think she's gone away to think about whether or not she wants to try again, with the odds being that she'll decide that she doesn't. She might hope that somehow he could break through and give her some reason to believe that trying again would be worthwhile, but she doesn't think it's possible. (I think that's the scene in the bathroom, and that the night before the conversation was about how irrational the trip to Spain was, in his view, and not at all about his remorse and love for her.)
I'm pretty sure that if she heard the "better husband" speech at all, it just became one factor in the decision-making that she knows is in front of her. Does she believe him, or trust him? Why should she? So, I think in the end, she's going to go through with a decision to have a trial separation, which very often is the death knell of a marriage, and both know it. Hence, the sadness.
They have to separate, logically, because otherwise Martin won't have to work to "get her back" which MC has said a couple of times, is the theme of S7.
I have to add into this discussion something which hasn't been mentioned. It is so much of an ingrained trait in him that it literally determines almost every facet of Martin's behavior. He was emotionally and physically abused as a child and,as a result, has no self esteem.....none. He believes that he doesn't deserve her deep in his heart and soul. When you are in such a position and mindset, I can attest to personally, you have no foundation from which to "fight" or exert your opinion. It is natural and less painful to be passive or acquiesce. You feel like it's the natural order of things. "Oh, well, this is normal...everything I do turns to crap anyway. It's just the way my life is."
Aunt Ruth planted a seed of realization in his head but his thoughts are so ingrained that it's difficult to change habits established since you were born. It's like when someone says "You're pretty" and all you can think of is "No I'm not", just like when Louisa told Martin he was extraordinary.
So I've always seen that scene in the bedroom as one in which Martin is totally lost. Yes, he wants her to stay, but no, I'm such crap that I couldn't possibly ask her. That's the way it goes for me...... The final scene was after talking to Ruth. I felt that Martin had made a realization and was actually quite angry with himself. His exit wasn't meant to be cold, but more that of an angry (at himself) man who was determined to do something about how he was and how he could save their marriage. Louisa obviously was rejecting him and as such, rejecting advances of hand holding or declarations of affection.....the leaving was the only behavior possible. That's without mentioning he was almost in tears It was a brilliantly choreographed scene with layers of complexity and ambiguity.
I'm not losing faith yet. A lot of the program takes place inside. Plus, they did something totally different in S6 and some of you didn't like it. Perhaps this is a return to the comedic, "light-hearted" Doc Martin program of years past....not as meaty. I personally love when the episodes are emotionally complex.
I have to add into this discussion something which hasn't been mentioned. It is so much of an ingrained trait in him that it literally determines almost every facet of Martin's behavior. He was emotionally and physically abused as a child and,as a result, has no self esteem.....none. He believes that he doesn't deserve her deep in his heart and soul. When you are in such a position and mindset, I can attest to personally, you have no foundation from which to "fight" or exert your opinion. It is natural and less painful to be passive or acquiesce. You feel like it's the natural order of things. "Oh, well, this is normal...everything I do turns to crap anyway. It's just the way my life is."
Aunt Ruth planted a seed of realization in his head but his thoughts are so ingrained that it's difficult to change habits established since you were born. It's like when someone says "You're pretty" and all you can think of is "No I'm not", just like when Louisa told Martin he was extraordinary.
So I've always seen that scene in the bedroom as one in which Martin is totally lost. Yes, he wants her to stay, but no, I'm such crap that I couldn't possibly ask her. That's the way it goes for me...... The final scene was after talking to Ruth. I felt that Martin had made a realization and was actually quite angry with himself. His exit wasn't meant to be cold, but more that of an angry (at himself) man who was determined to do something about how he was and how he could save their marriage. Louisa obviously was rejecting him and as such, rejecting advances of hand holding or declarations of affection.....the leaving was the only behavior possible. That's without mentioning he was almost in tears It was a brilliantly choreographed scene with layers of complexity and ambiguity.
I'm not losing faith yet. A lot of the program takes place inside. Plus, they did something totally different in S6 and some of you didn't like it. Perhaps this is a return to the comedic, "light-hearted" Doc Martin program of years past....not as meaty. I personally love when the episodes are emotionally complex.
I especially agree with the bolded sentence. And with the idea that "you don't think you deserve her" is a huge insight for him.
I know that in dramatic terms, it was better for him to stride out of her room, without any conciliatory gesture. She didn't exactly say she was still leaving -- she said she didn't want to go back to the way things were and pretend things were fine. That was an opening for him to repeat some version of the "better husband" speech: e.g. don't give up on me. I want to be a better husband, I want things to be better between us. I'm willing to work very hard on that, if you''ll help me." I mean, he'd already given her the "better husband" speech -- why not repeat it when she's awake enough to remember it? Don't you think in real life a husband in that situation would make that pitch?
Or maybe he also thought a separation to give him time to pull himself together and make some changes might be helpful. But I doubt it.
I agree -- a lot will be going on that we don't see being filmed on the streets of Portwenn. I just hope that we see some real communication between them, that isn't as ambiguous and frustrating as the scenes we've been talking about. Maybe the marriage counselor will do some helpful exposition. God, I hope so.
Whether we like the heavier, darker tone or not, I think it'll be hard to produce romantic sparkle in the situation of a man desperate to get his wife back. That's a little different than courting.
Comments
Lol I would agree with that.....I was there 13th and 14th and that was exactly what was going on!!
I've put my money on the sexy reconciliation too many times to bet on that horse again. I hope you're right about it, though!
I plan to chart where the viewers are in the UK by region, US by state, Canada by province/territory, Australia/New Zealand by state/territory/country and Europe, Latin America and South America by country. There is also an "Other" category and I will add additional continents as I receive responses. Once I start to get a significant response I will populate the maps and charts.
www.portwennonline.com
appropriate for a wedding Martin soon annoys a young womanby telling her to cover her skin to reduce sunburn, the woman shouts at Martin, frightening the baby who cries, and Louisa flounces off clearly annoyed with Martin
A later sequence shows Martin and Penhale chasing Carolyn Quentin, as an animal control officer, and Buddy, the dog, into the water.
Penhale is called away from the nearby police station where genus having a barbecue with Al Large, Morwenna and the new very nice young woman who looks about Morwenna's age
Only clue is baby about the same age as end of S 6 , Martin and Louisa not getting on and repeated beach rescues and unsolicited medical advice from previous seasons.
It's going down to the wire. We ought to have a pool on the exact minute/second of E8 they reconcile. I'd take 42 minutes 50 seconds.
I guess I don't want to see him essentially groveling, as if the entire blame for their marriage is his to shoulder and all the mistakes are his to correct.
Interesting point, NewPark. It would be an unexpected twist, although it would seem like a bit of an empty threat since Portwenn/Port Isaac is (one of) the show's leading character(s)
However, has Martin really made a visible effort to change? I mean, we saw a moment of it at the castle in S5E8, and a little bit of it on the honeymoon (dancing at the wedding, talking about the tropical vacation Louisa would have wanted, etc.), and the disastrous result when he invited Dennis and Karen for dinner in S6E2. But that hardly seems enough to demand an all-or-nothing decision from Louisa.
Don't get me wrong, I think that they *both* have a lot to work on, and Louisa certainly has to admit her contributions to the demise of their marriage, but unless I see some significant, consistent attempts for Martin to be kinder, more affectionate, and compassionate, I really can't say he's done enough to justify an ultimatum of that extent.
I'm not asking him to be Prince Charming ("Oh, my darling Louisa, you are the love of my life... come and let me shower you with roses and kisses and public declarations of my adoration..." - NOT!
If he's really making that kind of an effort, and Louisa is unwilling/unable to acknowledge it, and if she's still making unreasonable demands of her husband, then yes, by all means, let's see Doc stand up for his own sense of self-worth and call Louisa out.
I really hope it doesn't come to that, though!
I received an interesting response last night but no way to know who it is from or how to contact the person so I decided to post here. The person suggested that by not including a map of the Middle East or Asia, I'm missing the majority of the world's population. I do realize that, but in the years that these FB groups (and DS) have been rolling, I don't recall seeing anyone from those areas identify themselves. There are probably two good reasons for that. 1 - I suspect that DM isn't playing in many of those areas. 2 - The language barrier would suggest that they might not post on English speaking FB pages or websites. That said, if there are viewers from those areas who post their locations in the "Other" area of the survey, I plan to add maps showing their locations. This is a fluid survey and I will adjust as we go along. Thanks for your patience!
I agree, Earlgrey, that we have to see him making some kind of consistent effort
That said, I think there's a fine line between when he's done all that we (or Louisa) can reasonably expect of him, given who he is and his track record, and what Louisa can accept. At some point, her decision has to be, if this is the best he can do, can I accept it and him. I think she'll waffle a good bit before ultimately deciding that it'll have to be enough. And it may come down in the end to some kind of crisis precipitating her decision (BP has a way of doing that) -- one possibility is certainly Martin requesting her to fish or cut bait.
But, I think he is too enthralled by her, and too uncertain that he really "deserves" her, to risk doing that. Still, I'd like to see him have enough confidence to be able to do it, if necessary.
I don't disagree, though, that he has a lot of work to do before he's entitled to get to that point!
He's too enthralled with her? NewPark, you're funny. And - just what has Louisa done in the marriage that she has to own up to?
As I saw it, she was guilty of being preoccupied with the new baby and returning to work but it didn't hamper her ability to see that he needed a push to try to "look" as if he was engaged with the baby and others.
When she would leave in the morning, she would wish all well and give kisses or smiles (remember) .When she returned later in the day, she would greet all with smiles and enthusiasm. Remember? Shall I recall/name the scenes by episode??
Hold up...I do remember that she was testy in the E 2 and possibly E3; she missed the baby and didn't exactly warm to Mike, initially.
We witness the worried looks and glances for Martin (as the series progressed) and she encouraged him to seek help, etc. She entertained his Mum, and happily cooked meals (we assume) and tidied up. She even coaxed him to take Ruth for a birthday lunch.
Whoops...she even kissed him ! In the bed! Brave Louisa! Were there any other cuddles? Nope. Not one. Infact, he didn't sleep in their bed.
Martin was absent. After E 2, he was mostly silent and brooding. He wasn't aware of her much at all; entering a room, leaving a room, he couldn't have cared less. He checked out. He looked and behaved as if he was the unhappiest man in town.
Louisa is married to a joyless, humorless, cold, impertinent man. Wait, one more. He's cheap and tight-fisted. Is there anything more unattractive than a man who is stingy?
Louisa is not perfect. She has issues but she tried and was "present" in the marriage. Could she benefit from marriage counseling? Yes and she could learn to communicate more effectively.
You have, NP, before stated your unhappiness with her. I think you might have even used the word angry when referencing Louisa.
Martin doesn't seem to provoke that level of discontent from you. I find that remarkable. When will some hold him to the same standard as they use when judging Louisa. Just asking....
Some may defend Martin and remark that she knew what he was before marrying him. There is truth there but he made this grand overture of devotion to her at the end of S5. His level of dysfunction really accelerated in S6 which then led to the total breakdown of the marriage.
Martin has positive attributes and strengths which drew Louisa to him. She loves him without a doubt. These two people need to actively become interested in the other, exercise trust and intimacy with one another and communicate openly and honestly.
And - do it with kindness and some disarming humor. The love and respect is there, imo. Trust??? HIs motivation and "words of devotion" have proven to be risky. I don't fault her for needing more time before she leaps into his lovin' arms. ;-)
Really, I don't fault her for wanting to see deeds as well as words, this time. I just think there will come a time when she has to take another leap of faith. He'll try, but some habits and traits are just too ingrained to shift much in a few weeks or months.
I also agree that the character we saw in S6, if he continues that way, is a pretty grim prospect for a marriage partner. I think we won't see that guy very much in S7, if at all, but a reversion to the sort of normally "difficult man" and "idiot" that we've seen all along. It will take, and probably it should take, some time for Louisa to believe that whatever change we see is real and lasting.
I do try to be "fair and balanced." I've spent a fair amount of time here defending Louisa, on the grounds you cite. I do feel like she might have noticed his funk a bit earlier, reached out more aggressively, taken things a little less personally and confronted him more directly. But she has less to "change" than he has.
In the end, of course, it was his breakdown that precipitated the crisis in their marriage.
He is besotted with her, as Martin Clunes has said. . While he is tactless and blunt about some issues with her, and high-handed, he either can't find anything to criticize about their marital arrangements, or suppresses his discontents for fear of upsetting the apple cart. I think we're meant to take AR's diagnois as key = "You don't think you deserve her." Nothing good in a relationship can follow from that. I want him to get to the point where he believes he does deserve Louisa, so that they can deal with each as equals -- adult to adult, instead of parent-child, ( both of them interchangeably) or child to child.
Martin and Louisa are so far from showing any interest in each other and haven't really shown interest in each other over the past 2-3 seasons. They've behaved like they're "stuck" with each other to the point of seeming resentful. I miss the "feeling" you got as a viewer from earlier seasons. Martin living to "catch a glimpse of her" or her wanting him to accompany her to an event or activity.
Agree - I see this more in his behavior and since S4 he has shown little affection for her. He tolerates her. She did the same, at times, in part of S5. She made more attempts towards him (affection) in S6 and smiled more, etc.
PBS just played S6 8 this week in my area. I wondered why did he just walk out from her room in that last scene. What was the hurry? He had told her (while saving her) how he wants to be a better husband. Couldn't he have stayed with her and reassured her a just little more. She looked so sad when he left. I was sad for her
Oy, this is what I worry about. These are terrible signs the series has almost completely run out of creativity and is just in a repetitive loop of already seen, been there, watched that scenes. Darn.
I also agree that the character we saw in S6, if he continues that way, is a pretty grim prospect for a marriage partner. I think we won't see that guy very much in S7, if at all, but a reversion to the sort of normally "difficult man" and "idiot" that we've seen all along. It will take, and probably it should take, some time for Louisa to believe that whatever change we see is real and lasting.
LOL - idiot ?!! Yes - but he was an adorable idiot.
He vanished back in S4
I know. The very end just didn't line up with what had just transpired. I would have thought he would have at least stayed, maybe taken her hand and fade to black without anything else needing to be said....all I can think is that it followed more in line with the conversation he had with Ruth who pointed out to him that he didn't think he deserved Louisa, and also the fact that she wanted some space even though he had said he would care for her at home after her accident. He literally walked away giving her the space she wanted (even though it seems like maybe she didn't want it after what had just happened with the lifesaving surgery).
I had the same feelings of sadness as he walked out of the room in that last scene. I could feel her emotional pain and it left me feeling perplexed too.
I'm hopeful we are wrong about everything...we already know how tricky BP can be with this even though some of us have seen the pics and heard stories from those who have been there. Part of me doesn't want to presume anything and enjoy what comes.
Nothing in DM has perplexed me as much as that last scene. Did she just tell him that nothing's changed and she still wants a separation? Or did she tell him that nothing's changed, their marriage is in lousy shape, they'll have to work harder on it? Did she not hear the "better husband" speech, or just not believe it? Or have lost faith entirely in the possibility that he could be a "better husband" ? Did he agree to a separation? Why in the world didn't he repeat the "better husband" speech and sit down with her, say something, anything, lovingly? He's supposed to have had this major insight and that's the best he can do with it?
Like so much of DM, I think the closer you examine it, the less sense it makes. In this case, I think that whole scene was masterfully crafted to create maximum ambiguity, without much reference to plausibility.
Similarly, it just doesn't make sense to me that a woman who's been married about 3 months, would just decide that the whole thing isn't working and she needs a lot more space, with the clear indication that she's not coming back until she's good and ready, which may very well be never. Yes, he's behaved badly and shut her out, but the response to that is to bail without any serious confrontation, discussion, etc.? Maybe they would have had the confrontation that night, if the whole Sports Day fiasco hadn't taken place.
Personally, I don't get it. But it makes for compelling drama (for some -- for others of us, it's getting pretty old).
NPark:
Similarly, it just doesn't make sense to me that a woman who's been married about 3 months, would just decide that the whole thing isn't working and she needs a lot more space, with the clear indication that she's not coming back until she's good and ready, which may very well be never. Yes, he's behaved badly and shut her out, but the response to that is to bail without any serious confrontation, discussion, etc.? Maybe they would have had the confrontation that night, if the whole Sports Day fiasco hadn't taken place.
Personally, I don't get it. But it makes for compelling drama (for some -- for others of us, it's getting pretty old).
I feel old watching it and they're getting old period. I couldn't resist - I must respond NP.
I'm not stalking you, promise!
Louisa to Martin (in taxi): Martin, we've been through all this.
She made the decision in the hospital. What was left to say (see below).
I guess they talked and talked about her taking a break and going to Spain when she returned that night. We had to assume that she was coming back in time for new term/school. There was no hint at all that she was leaving for good.
We know what preceeded this was his rejection to go away and be together. He had no time for her. Ouch.
The Sport's Day humiliation. He had no time for any of it. Double Ouch.
The accident. Major ouch.
The bathroom scene is the one that I couldn't quite read. Initially, I thought she was waiting for him to say "don't leave." Others say she just didn't want to have the hurtful conversation again. I think at second look, she wanted him to say "I want to go with you." He said, instead, "my first patient is here."
Then again - who knows?
I repeat what I said before: when analyzed, these events just don't parse. Not plausibly. I'm not sure they are meant to. Perhaps we're just supposed to be left in the same state of confused sadness as our protagonists.
I could write a lengthy essay on this but will spare you (and everybody else). Just:
I think she's given up on him. I think she knows he loves her, but can't let be in an intimate relationship. I think she's gone away to think about whether or not she wants to try again, with the odds being that she'll decide that she doesn't. She might hope that somehow he could break through and give her some reason to believe that trying again would be worthwhile, but she doesn't think it's possible. (I think that's the scene in the bathroom, and that the night before the conversation was about how irrational the trip to Spain was, in his view, and not at all about his remorse and love for her.)
I'm pretty sure that if she heard the "better husband" speech at all, it just became one factor in the decision-making that she knows is in front of her. Does she believe him, or trust him? Why should she? So, I think in the end, she's going to go through with a decision to have a trial separation, which very often is the death knell of a marriage, and both know it. Hence, the sadness.
They have to separate, logically, because otherwise Martin won't have to work to "get her back" which MC has said a couple of times, is the theme of S7.
Perhaps we're just supposed to be left in the same state of confused sadness as our protagonists.
Yes. Louisa is conflicted and confused. Louisa to his Mum: I don't know what I'm doing...its more complicated.
Her sadness was (in the bathroom and the hospital) resignation. Okay - got it.
I think we agreed on that point - way back in one of these threads.
Have a good weekend - all ;-)
I have to add into this discussion something which hasn't been mentioned. It is so much of an ingrained trait in him that it literally determines almost every facet of Martin's behavior. He was emotionally and physically abused as a child and,as a result, has no self esteem.....none. He believes that he doesn't deserve her deep in his heart and soul. When you are in such a position and mindset, I can attest to personally, you have no foundation from which to "fight" or exert your opinion. It is natural and less painful to be passive or acquiesce. You feel like it's the natural order of things. "Oh, well, this is normal...everything I do turns to crap anyway. It's just the way my life is."
Aunt Ruth planted a seed of realization in his head but his thoughts are so ingrained that it's difficult to change habits established since you were born. It's like when someone says "You're pretty" and all you can think of is "No I'm not", just like when Louisa told Martin he was extraordinary.
So I've always seen that scene in the bedroom as one in which Martin is totally lost. Yes, he wants her to stay, but no, I'm such crap that I couldn't possibly ask her. That's the way it goes for me...... The final scene was after talking to Ruth. I felt that Martin had made a realization and was actually quite angry with himself. His exit wasn't meant to be cold, but more that of an angry (at himself) man who was determined to do something about how he was and how he could save their marriage. Louisa obviously was rejecting him and as such, rejecting advances of hand holding or declarations of affection.....the leaving was the only behavior possible. That's without mentioning he was almost in tears It was a brilliantly choreographed scene with layers of complexity and ambiguity.
I'm not losing faith yet. A lot of the program takes place inside. Plus, they did something totally different in S6 and some of you didn't like it. Perhaps this is a return to the comedic, "light-hearted" Doc Martin program of years past....not as meaty. I personally love when the episodes are emotionally complex.
I especially agree with the bolded sentence. And with the idea that "you don't think you deserve her" is a huge insight for him.
I know that in dramatic terms, it was better for him to stride out of her room, without any conciliatory gesture. She didn't exactly say she was still leaving -- she said she didn't want to go back to the way things were and pretend things were fine. That was an opening for him to repeat some version of the "better husband" speech: e.g. don't give up on me. I want to be a better husband, I want things to be better between us. I'm willing to work very hard on that, if you''ll help me." I mean, he'd already given her the "better husband" speech -- why not repeat it when she's awake enough to remember it? Don't you think in real life a husband in that situation would make that pitch?
Or maybe he also thought a separation to give him time to pull himself together and make some changes might be helpful. But I doubt it.
I agree -- a lot will be going on that we don't see being filmed on the streets of Portwenn. I just hope that we see some real communication between them, that isn't as ambiguous and frustrating as the scenes we've been talking about. Maybe the marriage counselor will do some helpful exposition. God, I hope so.
Whether we like the heavier, darker tone or not, I think it'll be hard to produce romantic sparkle in the situation of a man desperate to get his wife back. That's a little different than courting.