Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)

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  • BinaryDadBinaryDad Posts: 3,988
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Disappointing result, as a Hamilton fan.

    Same here. Lewis seemed to have the measure of Nico, especially at the point where Nico cut the chicane and broke DRS contact. Oh well. Plenty of races to go.
    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Massa just doesn't seem to have that ultimate sharpness that's necessary to be a top F1 driver and his crash was a perfect example of that clumsiness.

    I'm not sure who was at fault for that prang. Perez seemed to be moving over under braking, but Massa was behind ad it was up to him to make sure he made the pass in a safe manner. I felt that he was just too close when trying to pass, not allowing for any movement from the car in front.
  • ArcanaArcana Posts: 37,521
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    Despite the slightly premature climax, best race of the season for me.
  • spindiddlyspindiddly Posts: 4,975
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    Felt desperately sorry for Perez he really worked hard to keep a good position. :(

    What a bloody brilliant race though.
  • BinaryDadBinaryDad Posts: 3,988
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    vinba wrote: »
    Massa should have gone to specsavers. He's not the brightest person though when it comes to keeping out of trouble. Really happy for Ricardo. Drove well and nice chap apparently to boot.
    \

    I still maintain that Monaco 2011 and in fact, almost all the shunts between him and Hamilton were all down to Massa. Monaco especially though, where he suddenly changed his racing line to close the door.
  • Mystical123Mystical123 Posts: 15,811
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    BinaryDad wrote: »
    I'm not sure who was at fault for that prang. Perez seemed to be moving over under braking, but Massa was behind ad it was up to him to make sure he made the pass in a safe manner. I felt that he was just too close when trying to pass, not allowing for any movement from the car in front.

    Watch the onboard from both cars if you can - Perez didnt move over, he had the racing line. There was nothing he could have done to avoid the accident, Massa just didn't leave enough space. Such a shame.
  • Mystical123Mystical123 Posts: 15,811
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    BinaryDad wrote: »
    I'm not sure who was at fault for that prang. Perez seemed to be moving over under braking, but Massa was behind ad it was up to him to make sure he made the pass in a safe manner. I felt that he was just too close when trying to pass, not allowing for any movement from the car in front.

    Watch the onboard from both cars if you can - Perez didn't move over, he had the racing line. There was nothing he could have done to avoid the accident, Massa just didn't leave enough space. Such a shame.
  • TheToonArmyTheToonArmy Posts: 2,908
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    :o:o:o, Perez judged in the wrong and given a 5 grid penalty for next race
  • dazcdazc Posts: 4,063
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    Great Race Well To Dani Fully Deserved Felt So Sorry For Perez And People Who Call Fl Boring Should Watch Before Judging It
  • Mystical123Mystical123 Posts: 15,811
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    :o:o:o, Perez judged in the wrong and given a 5 grid penalty for next race

    That's ridiculous!
  • dansusdansus Posts: 2,559
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    Woodentop wrote: »
    It's almost poetic that the technology Mercedes drove forward the changes in power, became the issue that lost them a comfortable win and maybe one two.

    Renault lead the charge on the changes. Insisting that if F1 didnt change, they would pull out.
  • dansusdansus Posts: 2,559
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    Watch the onboard from both cars if you can - Perez didnt move over, he had the racing line. There was nothing he could have done to avoid the accident, Massa just didn't leave enough space. Such a shame.
    That's ridiculous!

    He changed line in the braking phase. Entirely justified, and the stewards who have all the evidence, agreed.
  • dansusdansus Posts: 2,559
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    Great race today, was on the edge of my seat chewing nails for Massa or Ricciardo to come through and win.

    Massa had all tools he needed and couldnt execute. Thought he drove really badly in the last 15 laps or so, was all over the place with his line, out braking himself for no reason, too stabby on the throttle on exit trying to recover and getting wheelspin. You wouldnt see the likes of Alonso or Hamilton making such noob mistakes, now we know why he was never able to make it happen at Ferrari. (post Hungry accident of course) Smedley must of been pulling his hair out.

    Less said about FOM's direction the better, its was atrocious. Apparently it was a senior director, think its time for him to move on, the old grey matter is past its prime.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    BinaryDad wrote: »
    I'm not sure who was at fault for that prang. Perez seemed to be moving over under braking, but Massa was behind ad it was up to him to make sure he made the pass in a safe manner. I felt that he was just too close when trying to pass, not allowing for any movement from the car in front.
    :o:o:o, Perez judged in the wrong and given a 5 grid penalty for next race

    Must admit, I didn't bother looking at the replays in great detail.
    Key issue, for me, was that Massa was going into the corner way, way too fast. If there hadn't have been another car in his way he probably would have cut straight across the infield and and stuck it in the fence on the outside of turn 2.
    Looked like he was going for a last lap "lunge up the inside" and screwed it up.

    Crazy to think that Perez is considered to blame for Massa driving into his rear wheel.
    I mean, the whole "got to leave room" thing is fine if it stops one driver forcing another one, who's alongside, off the track but this penalty is, effectively, saying that a driver can't take the racing line and, instead, must always stay wide of the racing line so that a following driver can get up the inside if he wants to.
  • FuddFudd Posts: 166,868
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Must admit, I didn't bother looking at the replays in great detail.
    Key issue, for me, was that Massa was going into the corner way, way too fast. If there hadn't have been another car in his way he probably would have cut straight across the infield and and stuck it in the fence on the outside of turn 2.
    Looked like he was going for a last lap "lunge up the inside" and screwed it up.

    Crazy to think that Perez is considered to blame for Massa driving into his rear wheel.
    I mean, the whole "got to leave room" thing is fine if it stops one driver forcing another one, who's alongside, off the track but this penalty is, effectively, saying that a driver can't take the racing line and, instead, must always stay wide of the racing line so that a following driver can get up the inside if he wants to.

    According to Smedley, Massa took the same approach and chose the same braking point the lap before when he was behind Vettel. Vettel didn't change his line and there was no collision. Perez jerked to the left and there was a collision. Force India don't appear to be appealing at this moment in time.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    Fudd wrote: »
    According to Smedley, Massa took the same approach and chose the same braking point the lap before when he was behind Vettel. Vettel didn't change his line and there was no collision. Perez jerked to the left and there was a collision. Force India don't appear to be appealing at this moment in time.

    Well, I guess if Massa was going the same speed and braked at the same point, he probably wasn't going for a "lunge" but, even so, it seems like a kinda thin excuse for driving into the back of another car.
    The replay doesn't show Perez moving the wheel prior to the collision so it's not like he swerved to block Massa.
    If anything, the replay shows Perez catching Vettel right up in the corner so he possibly braked heavier/earlier to avoid shunting Vettel.
    It seems crazy that a driver can just say "well, I did the same as I did before" to escuse a collision.
    Seems like F1 drivers should be capable of modifying their actions to suit the circumstances rather than just arbitrarily braking at a given point.
  • James1953James1953 Posts: 4,840
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    Exciting race . Glad it was on terrestrial tv as well
  • gomezzgomezz Posts: 44,507
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    dazc wrote: »
    People Who Call Fl Boring Should Watch Before Judging It
    TBH it was very run of the mill until the Mercs started having problems and other cars started suffering brake issues. Crash of the day actually happened in WSB earlier although admittedly the racing in that too was one of the less exciting rounds.
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,988
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    Showed the Mercs aren't quite bullet proof but not a lot else. Good to see Ricciardo get his maiden win as he's driven very well this year.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    jmclaugh wrote: »
    Showed the Mercs aren't quite bullet proof but not a lot else. Good to see Ricciardo get his maiden win as he's driven very well this year.

    Thing is, most other cars wouldn't have been remotely competitive without the leccy motor and so would have stopped.

    I guess that, because the Merc' was able to continue, it put a greater strain on the rear brakes than they were ever designed to handle.
    Given the massive superiority of the Merc's this year, I think they could probably afford to add a couple of extra kgs by bunging bigger brakes on the back to ensure they don't have that problem again.
  • ACUACU Posts: 9,104
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    BinaryDad wrote: »
    I'm pretty certain that Rosberg did it on purpose. The car looked too all intents and purposes, very stable under braking. He started sawing at the wheel until get got a lock up. If the car was really unstable at the rear, the front lock up would have caused the car to spin, not just to understeer.

    Since we can only guess at what Rosberg was thinking, its best we agree to disagree. Rosberg is the only one that can say if he did it on purpose or not.
    BinaryDad wrote: »
    Jeez. When he was at McLaren he was criticised for not questioning the teams decisions and now he's being criticised for questioning them? The guy just can't win. I'm just curious...how SHOULD he have questioned the decision? By getting out of the car, running over and having a quick chat? Via the medium of interpretative dance perhaps? The radio is there for him to COMMUNICATE and ask questions as well as being relayed information.

    I have no problems with Hamilton's behaviour. To be honest, given that even after looking at the data he was even more sure that Rosberg has fluffed that corner on purpose, I thought he was very restrained. I'd be pretty pissed if I felt that my chance of winning has been taken away in such a manner.

    If Hamilton could do one thing better, is to not feel that he has to answer every question thrown at him.

    Only the most ardent of fans will say that Hamiltons behaviour at Monaco was ok. He behaved like a petulant child. It was a very poor display by him. Especially since he looks a bit of an idiot when he comes back this week and contradicts what he said last week.

    His radio messages regarding the pitstop, were not great. There was better ways he could have said what he said.
    Fudd wrote: »
    Nice between Vettel and Riccardo. I thought Vettel might be a bit angry about the pit strategy.

    Vettel did seem pleased for Ricciardo. That was good to see. Hamilton should take note.
    That's ridiculous!

    Hmm, the stewards who have all the data, multiple cameras angles, car telemetary got it wrong, whilst some bloke watching the coverage on sky/bbc gets it right? :D I think I will go with the stewards. For the seriousness of the accident, 5 place grid penalty does seem lenient.


    Rosberg drove a superb race, I think he would have taken 2nd place when they were having problems. Great to see Ricciardo win his first race. Vettel has a team mate that can push him hard. A lot of people were saying he wasnt good enough, and they got him so Vettel could have an easy ride. They have certainly been proven wrong.

    My sky box messed up the recording, so only got to watch the last 35 laps or so. However the last laps did make for an interesting race. Not sure if they first half was as interesting.

    With Hamilon DNFing, it does make for an interesting DC battle. If Rosberg maintains his lead with only a few races to go. I can see Hamilton taking more and more risks. Which for viewers will be great, not so much for Rosberg, Hamilton and Merc. These two will come together on the track this year. Toto has said, that if that does happen team orders will be enforced.

    For those that have sky, Brundle did a very good interview with Rosberg, who was very open about Monaco and his relationship with Hamilton. A very mature iinterview, and you can see he is far ahead of Hamilton when it comes to mind games, interviews etc. Must have something to do with being brought up in Monaco and not some council estate. :D
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,988
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    ACU wrote: »
    Vettel did seem pleased for Ricciardo. That was good to see. Hamilton should take note.

    If Vettel was in Hamilton's shoes driving for a WDC you can be sure his attitude to Ricciardo would be somewhat different.
    For those that have sky, Brundle did a very good interview with Rosberg, who was very open about Monaco and his relationship with Hamilton. A very mature iinterview, and you can see he is far ahead of Hamilton when it comes to mind games, interviews etc. Must have something to do with being brought up in Monaco and not some council estate. :D

    If only we all had rich daddies. I have little doubt Rosberg's antics in the final run in qually at Monaco were deliberate.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    jmclaugh wrote: »
    If Vettel was in Hamilton's shoes driving for a WDC you can be sure his attitude to Ricciardo would be somewhat different.

    Indeed.

    Vettel has been well and truly gubbed by DR this year so he's really got no other choice than to act pleased when that apparent superiority finally pays dividends.
    If he was swapping the championship lead with DR every other race I suspect his attitude might be a little different.
  • gemma-the-huskygemma-the-husky Posts: 18,116
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    Anyway I now think Rosberg may win the title. Mercedes may favour a German driver over a random Brit now he can be seen to be competitive.
  • TadpoleTadpole Posts: 1,646
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    Yes, looks like things are heading Rosberg's way. With 7 starts and 7 podiums, it would appear that he is having a better season than Lewis with his two DNF's, which were both down to technical issues rather than down to accidents or driver error. Mercedes should be able to learn from Montreal.

    Am also disappointed that McLaren are so far back when they have a similar engine package as the Mercedes - if Mclaren were to switch to Honda engines tomorrow it would make Honda themselves appear to be very uncompetitive.
  • Pat_SmithPat_Smith Posts: 2,104
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    Massa's not a top-rank driver. Never mind the crash, he should have been able to get past in those last laps. Not up to it.
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