Why is there always "total chaos" in England when it snows?

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  • Phil 2804Phil 2804 Posts: 21,846
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    Salv* wrote: »
    Annoys me how we are never ready for it, we are always given signals that it's going to be bad, but i always ends up in chaos and the whole world stops... when in other countries they are used to it.

    Snow is becoming more common, up until last year i don't remember very heavy snow.

    If you think other countries carry on as normal then I suggest you talk to my family who live in New York. They will gladly tell you otherwise.

    I can certainly tell you otherwise as I know from my job that its the same old airports in the US that close every winter during snow storms.

    As for the bit in bold. Snow is not becoming more common. If you lived and have memories before 1991 you will know that big snow storms were an almost annual event in Britain.
  • Phil 2804Phil 2804 Posts: 21,846
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    I don't think he understands maths at all. A foot of snow is a hell of a lot.

    However, the last part of your sentence isn't true. I remember 18 inches of snow falling in 24 hours over Chicago and most of Interstate 80 and things did not slow down one bit. Going west on I-80, you pick up states like Iowa, Wyoming, Utah-- places that are literally in the Mountain region of the USA and get oodles of snow. It's a case of anticipating the snow fall and having trucks and such gritting and salting in advance, plus every person who can plow, plowing. It would be a complete waste of money in this country to do that. However, having large stocks of salt would be a good idea.

    It just doesn't snow this heavily in November in Britain. I've been here 8 years and have never seen it this cold or this snowing so early-- and I lived in Scotland for 5 of those years.



    Grit and salt don't make one bit of difference to heavy snowfall unless you have heavy traffic to work it in. I grew up in Aberdeenshire, heavy snow is an annual event there. Once it sets, it sets in.

    November 1985 was the coldest month of that year. There were severe snow storms on rememberance Sunday and it remained wintery for almost the whole month. The following February 1986 was one of the coldest months on record.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 14,284
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    Phil 2804 wrote: »
    Grit and salt don't make one bit of difference to heavy snowfall unless you have heavy traffic to work it in. I grew up in Aberdeenshire, heavy snow is an annual event there. Once it sets, it sets in.

    November 1985 was the coldest month of that year. There were severe snow storms on rememberance Sunday and it remained wintery for almost the whole month. The following February 1986 was one of the coldest months on record.

    That's why I said I've never seen it so cold or snowy in the 8 years that I lived here.

    Of course gritting and salting do nothing to prevent heavy snowfall, but both can help manage the roads a lot better.
    I could see the need for extra machinery up in the Grampian area, but down here it would be a waste of money.

    Like you said, heavy snowfall causes chaos in the best prepared areas, but some places manage it a bit better than others. I've seen O'Hare practically closed for high winds and rainfall in the summer, and it's closed several times in the winter due to the cold, not even snow.
  • trinity2002trinity2002 Posts: 16,059
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    It's the public causing most of the 'chaos' by believing they have the right to carry on as normal, and this absolutely normal disruption is a direct affront towards them. They can't blame natural circumstances so they blame anyone else they possibly can. Maybe the public in some other countries accept that their lives are going to be disrupted for a while and just get on with it.......but I also expect a fair minority of them too get p**sed off as well. It doesn't matter what country you are in, with this much snow, everyday life is going to be somewhat limited for most. Airports closing, public transport disruptions, unpassable roads, events cancelled, and deliveries not getting through are not just a 'British' thing during severe weather, and it makes me laugh that some people are actually insinuating that. It is purely down to attitude, and the ability to adapt......something I've noticed a few people over the past few days are having trouble with.
  • jassijassi Posts: 7,895
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    Denise wrote: »
    Yet if you read the news reports in these other countries that are used to it, they also struggle when it comes as already pointed out on this thread including links. I am not sure how we can be ready for it to a stage it causes no problems at all.

    We could get ready by investing.

    Last night, I saw pictures of tractor fitted with snowploughs and pulling gritters. If the government bought several thousands of these and employed farmers to fit them to their tractors, we could have most of the country roads cleared to at least a passable state.
    Instead, the county has a dozen or so gritter wagons that are employed full time ( or at least until they run low on grit) keeping a small number of main roads open .

    Useless! :mad:

    PS 1 jet fighter would pay for all the snow-handling gear we could possible need - goodness knows what we could buy for the cost of an aircraft carrier .
  • Virgil TracyVirgil Tracy Posts: 26,805
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    it's really coming down in birmingham right now .
  • rosalynnrosalynn Posts: 4,500
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    rwould wrote: »
    So how do you explain Holland coping perfectly well with the weather and one of our main airports will have been closed for at least two days?

    It is down to too much cost saving and poor planning.

    That's strange, I have a friend on Twitter who's in the Netherlands and he said there's a bit of snow there but disruption with traffic jams.
  • IphigeniaIphigenia Posts: 8,109
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    It's the public causing most of the 'chaos' by believing they have the right to carry on as normal, and this absolutely normal disruption is a direct affront towards them. They can't blame natural circumstances so they blame anyone else they possibly can. Maybe the public in some other countries accept that their lives are going to be disrupted for a while and just get on with it.......but I also expect a fair minority of them too get p**sed off as well. It doesn't matter what country you are in, with this much snow, everyday life is going to be somewhat limited for most. Airports closing, public transport disruptions, unpassable roads, events cancelled, and deliveries not getting through are not just a 'British' thing during severe weather, and it makes me laugh that some people are actually insinuating that. It is purely down to attitude, and the ability to adapt......something I've noticed a few people over the past few days are having trouble with.

    Hurrah. I agree with you. Plus in some countries, like Germany and Austria, every householder has the responsbility to clear their own frontage. They don't just whinge on about why no gritter has managed to get up Acacia Mews. If we all cleared our own patches, it would things a dmn sight easier.
  • chitariverachitarivera Posts: 36,905
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    When I got my first car in the 80's we had a few snowy winters.

    I diligently covered it every night with a snow/frost protector sheet and I became very adept at taking the battery and spark plugs out when I got home from work.
    The battery was put on charge over night and replaced as soon as I was dressed etc, and I put the spark plugs under the grill to warm and carried them out to the car covered with my sheepskin mittens.

    Over the years I had different cars, and got out of the habit of taking that kind of precaution. Mainly because the cars were newer and better than my first old banger but also because the winters since then seemed much more mild.

    It's looking now like I will have to go back to my old ways.

    I've ordered a battery charger for a start.
    Going to look at covers next.

    Winters seem to be back.
  • lozloz Posts: 4,720
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    Had first hand experience of how they deal with it in countries that are more used to snow last week.

    I was in Boston and we had 5" of snow overnight.

    I looked out my hotel bedroom window about 6am and it was snowing heavily and you could see the snow was fairly deep looking at the layer on the cars. So I wondered how I was going to fare trying to drive to work that morning, if at all.

    By 8am when it was time to leave it was still snowing lightly, but all the roads had been fully cleared, the hotel carpark had been comprehensively snow plowed - even the empty spaces had been cleared. All the pavements had been cleared and swept. And there was a snow plow and a gang of men on duty in the hotel grounds keeping everything clear.

    And my drive to work was no different to the previous sunny morning.

    I think I saw more snow plows that morning than I have seen in my entire life. :)
  • jrajra Posts: 48,325
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    After living in Germany for twenty years I find it hard to understand why England goes to pieces when there is snow!!

    Here nearly everyone has winter tyres. In fact they have just made it mandatory to have winter tyres, if you don't fit them you can be fined Euro 40 or Euro 80, if you get into an accident the Car Insurance is not valid if you have summer tyres on!! Same thing with seat belts. It is farcical to see so many cars (obviously without winter tyres) struggling in the snow. Last winter was pretty awful and it looks like this one is going to be worse so why is England always so unprepared for snow??:rolleyes:

    It doesn't snow often enough in most parts of the UK to make it worth while.

    Also, most people in this country don't realise that snow fall here often partly thaws and re-freezes, turning the lower layers into ice. This make it very difficult to clear with snow ploughs. Snow which hasn't partially thawed is much easier to clear up, e.g. what is normally the case in Germany.
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