I'm not saying 12 year old's want to murder, but that because they were 12 they could easily have an extremely diminished ability to understand the gravity of what they were doing.. let's not forget why they did this, which is demonstrates it wasn't particularly rational or sane.
They are twelve, that is old enough to understand that by continuing to stab someone that person is in danger of dying quite rapidly.
I'd hazard a guess one of the girls is particularly disturbed. Perhaps they became a bit obsessed with Slenderman? Those stories are very scary. I don't usually go for histrionics, but crikey, if they're capable (and in one girl's case, remorseless) of this at 12, who knows about the future. :eek:
I apologise if this comes across as inappropriate or flippant, but it's a thought that struck me on reading how this thread has gone so far.
I wonder what the reaction would have been had this happened in this country ?. Obviously the most famous comparison is the Bulger case. Thompson and Venables were both two years younger than these two at the time but we had, and still have, people queuing up to insist they were fully aware of what they were doing.
Would we have a similar reaction if this case with the girls had happened here ?
I apologise if this comes across as inappropriate or flippant, but it's a thought that struck me on reading how this thread has gone so far.
I wonder what the reaction would have been had this happened in this country ?. Obviously the most famous comparison is the Bulger case. Thompson and Venables were both two years younger than these two at the time but we had, and still have, people queuing up to insist they were fully aware of what they were doing.
Would we have a similar reaction if this case with the girls had happened here ?
Those two should never have been released. Again IMO it shows something fundamentally wrong with them to continuously hurt someone when you can hear they're in pain.
I was going to say that this is what happens when parents allow children to have free access to the darker side of what the web has to offer. But equally similar ideas could have come from comics or books or fairy tales. What's missing here is the concept of consequences. I wonder if the parents of the two girls were even aware of what they were in to?
I don't agree with the knee-jerk reaction to ban, ban, ban. Children need to be made aware of the dangers in life. Haven't we have told scary stories to our children for millennia? Not to purely frighten them though, but as a way of teaching them about risk and consequences without exposing them to real danger. Where was the parental supervision here?
no child should ever be tried as an adult in my opinion, planning and remorse do not alter the fact that they are twelve years old.
Nonsense! Children can be extremely smart and know how to manipulate things to get their way. What would you be saying if a couple of kids of the same age had tried to murder a relative of yours or what would you say if they had succeeded? If a couple of kids tried that with a member of my family then I would want them gotten rid of!
Nonsense! Children can be extremely smart and know how to manipulate things to get their way. What would you be saying if a couple of kids of the same age had tried to murder a relative of yours or what would you say if they had succeeded? If a couple of kids tried that with a member of my family then I would want them gotten rid of!
i would say exactly the same, as i`m sharp enough to know the difference between a child and an adult.
The trouble with the messaging is that it makes it seem like the internet/books/games are the root of the problem rather than the actual people committing the crime.
These 2 girls, planned for a long time to kill someone. That is shocking.
The discussion about ages and being tried as a child or an adult is a distraction.
If at any age you plan to murder someone then attempt to carry it out you are clearly a danger to society and shouldn't be free to participate in that society for a very, very, very long time, if ever.
Does anyone know what the likely outcome would be if they were tried as children rather than adults?
Its a tricky one. Im on the fence really. I think they should be tried as adults but it think the mental state is more important than their ages. To attempt to kill a girl for revenge is one thing, but to attempt it so they can live with some fictional character is absolutely crazy.
I think theres something seriously mentally disturbed there and i dont think any amount of time is going to make them safe in the outside world. Id say a minimum of life in a secure psychiatric unit, regardless of how old they are.
It's America. Where the death penalty can extend to teenagers and the disabled.
IIRC the US supreme court has ruled that you can't execute under 18s, but you caan imprison them for life. I seem to think there is at least one 14 year old serving life without parole.
Does anyone know what the likely outcome would be if they were tried as children rather than adults?
Its a tricky one. Im on the fence really. I think they should be tried as adults but it think the mental state is more important than their ages. To attempt to kill a girl for revenge is one thing, but to attempt it so they can live with some fictional character is absolutely crazy.
I think theres something seriously mentally disturbed there and i dont think any amount of time is going to make them safe in the outside world. Id say a minimum of life in a secure psychiatric unit, regardless of how old they are.
They would probably be in juvenile prison until 18 before moving onto adult prison. Unless you mean sentencing, no idea
It is funny how we both read the same words and come to completely different conclusions! I did not take Annette's post as to mean they should be let off, but to mean she does not agree with them being tried as adults because they are not adults. She seems to me to be saying they should be tried as the children they are.
It is funny how we both read the same words and come to completely different conclusions! I did not take Annette's post as to mean they should be let off, but to mean she does not agree with them being tried as adults because they are not adults. She seems to me to be saying they should be tried as the children they are.
Which is essentially saying they should be do a few years in some youth offenders prison, before given a new ID and released.
After all, they didn't really mean it, had a bad childhood, didn't have enough money spent on them, unloved by parents blah blah blah...
Comments
They are twelve, that is old enough to understand that by continuing to stab someone that person is in danger of dying quite rapidly.
I'd hazard a guess one of the girls is particularly disturbed. Perhaps they became a bit obsessed with Slenderman? Those stories are very scary. I don't usually go for histrionics, but crikey, if they're capable (and in one girl's case, remorseless) of this at 12, who knows about the future. :eek:
I wonder what the reaction would have been had this happened in this country ?. Obviously the most famous comparison is the Bulger case. Thompson and Venables were both two years younger than these two at the time but we had, and still have, people queuing up to insist they were fully aware of what they were doing.
Would we have a similar reaction if this case with the girls had happened here ?
It's Wisconsin. No death penalty there.
the more i think about it, the more wrong it becomes and there`s potential to extend it to paedophiliac defence if you carry the notion through.
Those two should never have been released. Again IMO it shows something fundamentally wrong with them to continuously hurt someone when you can hear they're in pain.
I was going to say that this is what happens when parents allow children to have free access to the darker side of what the web has to offer. But equally similar ideas could have come from comics or books or fairy tales. What's missing here is the concept of consequences. I wonder if the parents of the two girls were even aware of what they were in to?
I don't agree with the knee-jerk reaction to ban, ban, ban. Children need to be made aware of the dangers in life. Haven't we have told scary stories to our children for millennia? Not to purely frighten them though, but as a way of teaching them about risk and consequences without exposing them to real danger. Where was the parental supervision here?
Ok, let 'em off then! (Rolleyes)
where did i say that?
Nonsense! Children can be extremely smart and know how to manipulate things to get their way. What would you be saying if a couple of kids of the same age had tried to murder a relative of yours or what would you say if they had succeeded? If a couple of kids tried that with a member of my family then I would want them gotten rid of!
i would say exactly the same, as i`m sharp enough to know the difference between a child and an adult.
That is essentially what you are saying. Or seem to be.
If I am wrong, then please say what you would do with them?
they should be tried as children, as that is what they are.
I did read them.
You seem to object to justice being done.
where?
trying children as adults is not justice.
These 2 girls, planned for a long time to kill someone. That is shocking.
The discussion about ages and being tried as a child or an adult is a distraction.
If at any age you plan to murder someone then attempt to carry it out you are clearly a danger to society and shouldn't be free to participate in that society for a very, very, very long time, if ever.
Its a tricky one. Im on the fence really. I think they should be tried as adults but it think the mental state is more important than their ages. To attempt to kill a girl for revenge is one thing, but to attempt it so they can live with some fictional character is absolutely crazy.
I think theres something seriously mentally disturbed there and i dont think any amount of time is going to make them safe in the outside world. Id say a minimum of life in a secure psychiatric unit, regardless of how old they are.
IIRC the US supreme court has ruled that you can't execute under 18s, but you caan imprison them for life. I seem to think there is at least one 14 year old serving life without parole.
They're saying around 65 years in jail.
They would probably be in juvenile prison until 18 before moving onto adult prison. Unless you mean sentencing, no idea
It is funny how we both read the same words and come to completely different conclusions! I did not take Annette's post as to mean they should be let off, but to mean she does not agree with them being tried as adults because they are not adults. She seems to me to be saying they should be tried as the children they are.
Which is essentially saying they should be do a few years in some youth offenders prison, before given a new ID and released.
After all, they didn't really mean it, had a bad childhood, didn't have enough money spent on them, unloved by parents blah blah blah...
either point out where i`ve said such things or rap up.
how do you mean?