The definition of being British is 100% loyalty to Britain and not to foreigners of the same religion abroad.
While that might be desirable, it is not the usual definition of being British!
British Muslim only really have one option and that is a reformation, or the forming of a breakaway British branch of Islam, that ditches all the politics and Islamic culture and embraces British values.
Or they can just practise their religion in such a way that it doesn't impinge on anyone else, as most of them already do. I reckon that would work for most people.
The definition of being British is 100% loyalty to Britain and not to foreigners of the same religion abroad. I am glad they are protesting democratically, but at the same time they have to realise that it is their religion and not any one else's. The have the right to practise their religion peacefully and privately in this country, but other people have the right to say what they like about it.
The real problem for Islam in the UK is this concept of a global community of Muslims. I can't see how that is going to work with the concept of countries. Muslims often say I am British and a Muslim, but you can only really have one master.
The British seem to have an aversion to people shouting about their religion, although they do like some of the quieter cultural aspects. They dislike public bible bashers, but enjoy people singing carols in the high street at Christmas.
British Muslim only really have one option and that is a reformation, or the forming of a breakaway British branch of Islam, that ditches all the politics and Islamic culture and embraces British values.
Awesome that means I am not British because I don't hold allegiance to any nation state due to not having a simplistic mind. My only allegiance is to myself, my family and my friends.
Exercising their right to free speech while protesting against it, Learn Some Manners their banners read, while swarming over the statue of a war hero, What irony.
I am honestly sick and tired of some of these people.
It always seems to be the Muslim religion that is offended by the slightest thing.
Sick of it.
No, Christians are just as bad. Try going to a heavily radicalised Christian country and offending their prophet. Call him gay as he had 12 semi naked men with him all the time and you'll find yourself in for a kicking.
No, Christians are just as bad. Try going to a heavily radicalised Christian country and offending their prophet. Call him gay as he had 12 semi naked men with him all the time and you'll find yourself in for a kicking.
Bit of an improvement on beheading don't you think?
Awesome that means I am not British because I don't hold allegiance to any nation state due to not having a simplistic mind. My only allegiance is to myself, my family and my friends.
I think he was referring to religious terrorism. The IRA were working for a United Ireland which is specifically political. They were not saying in the name of Transubstantiation we do these things, it was always a United Ireland in one size shape or form. The problem is that Islam is both a religion and a political ideology. With the IRA you can make a United Ireland and that problem goes away (it may change to other people) with Islam it will continue on until Islam rules and even then it will become factional.
No, Christians are just as bad. Try going to a heavily radicalised Christian country and offending their prophet. Call him gay as he had 12 semi naked men with him all the time and you'll find yourself in for a kicking.
But why would a mature person want to do that.
Of course the beauty of free speech is that its easier to spot the knobs.
Love it - the irony of using free speech to protest against free speech.
What do they expect to achieve protesting in England about a French paper anyway??
The same result they expect when they demonstrate so forcibly against the actions of the Islamic State as being nothing to do with Islam, I think I saw one of those large demonstrations recently, I cannot find it at the moment but I am sure there was.
No, Christians are just as bad. Try going to a heavily radicalised Christian country and offending their prophet. Call him gay as he had 12 semi naked men with him all the time and you'll find yourself in for a kicking.
I think you could do that here though without any problems, certainly in terms of the law, you may get a few people protesting but you would not have to have a Salman Rushdie type protection which should have taught us a lesson all those years ago.
I am honestly sick and tired of some of these people.
It always seems to be the Muslim religion that is offended by the slightest thing.
Sick of it.
Yeah because white Christians are never offended. Who is leading the charge against page 3 and internet porn? Who leads the charge in the outrage after Jeremy Clarkson says something stupid?
I think he was referring to religious terrorism. The IRA were working for a United Ireland which is specifically political. They were not saying in the name of Transubstantiation we do these things, it was always a United Ireland in one size shape or form. The problem is that Islam is both a religion and a political ideology. With the IRA you can make a United Ireland and that problem goes away (it may change to other people) with Islam it will continue on until Islam rules and even then it will become factional.
If that's what he meant, then he should have said so. In fact, he stated that all terrorism is done by Muslims, which is palpably untrue.
The recent arrest in Green Bay, Wisconsin, of Francis Grady, 50, for allegedly setting off an incendiary device at a Planned Parenthood clinic serves to remind Americans of another form of domestic extremism: anti-abortion violence. Like environmental and animal rights violence, anti-abortion violence is a form of single-issue extremism. Typically, single-issue extremism emerges as an ultra-radical wing of a much broader social or political movement, a wing so agitated about its chosen cause that its adherents may come to believe that violence in the service of that cause is justified or even required.
I think he was referring to religious terrorism. The IRA were working for a United Ireland which is specifically political. They were not saying in the name of Transubstantiation we do these things, it was always a United Ireland in one size shape or form. The problem is that Islam is both a religion and a political ideology. With the IRA you can make a United Ireland and that problem goes away (it may change to other people) with Islam it will continue on until Islam rules and even then it will become factional.
As I have said elsewhere there is a religious dimension to the NI Troubles as well. Catholic/Nationalism and Protestant/Unionism are linked together by ideas of exclusiveness (e.g. For God and Ulster) and sectarian division (Reformed and Catholic faith) which are often missed in the historical analysis.
Islam has a wider context than Irish Nationalism and there are much stronger religious and cultural influences at work here. Islam is international and trans-continental in its reach. There are elements within Islam that are simply anti-Western (Boko Haram, ISIS) and sympathy for this view reaches beyond the Fundamentalists.
Islam has seen cultural high spots in the past, so I don't judge Islam on its Fundamentalists. Islam is also beset by internal schism not unlike the sectarian divides within Christianity. It has taken a long time for Christianity to deal with these but Christianity has learnt to co-exist with Western, secular values. In time, so will Islam. This just isn't the time.
While that might be desirable, it is not the usual definition of being British!
I meant what it means to be British, not really the legal definition. People often say 'people are British citizens, so they are British' and others say, 'yes but their not really British are they'. I was just trying to define the latter.
Or they can just practise their religion in such a way that it doesn't impinge on anyone else, as most of them already do. I reckon that would work for most people.
Not really, I don't think they will ever be accepted in this country until they ditch the Saudi Arabian cultural aspects and the politics. Christianity has evolved with this country, so it is quite different culturally to other parts of the world. Other religions just keep quiet so people don't notice them. Islam is more like a franchise or a fixed blueprint. They are the Starbucks of the religious world. It doesn't matter where you go it always looks the same, so would always seem foreign and out of place.
Comments
Whether anyone actually listens to it, is a different matter.
Or they can just practise their religion in such a way that it doesn't impinge on anyone else, as most of them already do. I reckon that would work for most people.
Awesome that means I am not British because I don't hold allegiance to any nation state due to not having a simplistic mind. My only allegiance is to myself, my family and my friends.
The Jewish people did exactly this recently and did you moan? Or do you only make noises when it's Muslims.
Yet more confusion between Islam and Islamist extremism.
It always seems to be the Muslim religion that is offended by the slightest thing.
Sick of it.
No, Christians are just as bad. Try going to a heavily radicalised Christian country and offending their prophet. Call him gay as he had 12 semi naked men with him all the time and you'll find yourself in for a kicking.
Bit of an improvement on beheading don't you think?
I 100% agree with this statement.
Depends where you are. You may find yourself stoned in Africa.
I'd be happy with no religion anywhere but until then I'll place the extremes of all religious follows as just as bad as each other.
Hypocrites.
What do they expect to achieve protesting in England about a French paper anyway??
I think he was referring to religious terrorism. The IRA were working for a United Ireland which is specifically political. They were not saying in the name of Transubstantiation we do these things, it was always a United Ireland in one size shape or form. The problem is that Islam is both a religion and a political ideology. With the IRA you can make a United Ireland and that problem goes away (it may change to other people) with Islam it will continue on until Islam rules and even then it will become factional.
But why would a mature person want to do that.
Of course the beauty of free speech is that its easier to spot the knobs.
The same result they expect when they demonstrate so forcibly against the actions of the Islamic State as being nothing to do with Islam, I think I saw one of those large demonstrations recently, I cannot find it at the moment but I am sure there was.
I think you could do that here though without any problems, certainly in terms of the law, you may get a few people protesting but you would not have to have a Salman Rushdie type protection which should have taught us a lesson all those years ago.
I'll go with that.
... and lose our free speech!
Yeah because white Christians are never offended. Who is leading the charge against page 3 and internet porn? Who leads the charge in the outrage after Jeremy Clarkson says something stupid?
Moral panic is not the preserve of any one group.
Luckily we don't have this sort of extremist Christian terrorism in this country
http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/domestic-extremism-terrorism/c/anti-abortion-violence-americas-forgotten-terrorism-1.html
As I have said elsewhere there is a religious dimension to the NI Troubles as well. Catholic/Nationalism and Protestant/Unionism are linked together by ideas of exclusiveness (e.g. For God and Ulster) and sectarian division (Reformed and Catholic faith) which are often missed in the historical analysis.
Islam has a wider context than Irish Nationalism and there are much stronger religious and cultural influences at work here. Islam is international and trans-continental in its reach. There are elements within Islam that are simply anti-Western (Boko Haram, ISIS) and sympathy for this view reaches beyond the Fundamentalists.
Islam has seen cultural high spots in the past, so I don't judge Islam on its Fundamentalists. Islam is also beset by internal schism not unlike the sectarian divides within Christianity. It has taken a long time for Christianity to deal with these but Christianity has learnt to co-exist with Western, secular values. In time, so will Islam. This just isn't the time.
I meant what it means to be British, not really the legal definition. People often say 'people are British citizens, so they are British' and others say, 'yes but their not really British are they'. I was just trying to define the latter.
Not really, I don't think they will ever be accepted in this country until they ditch the Saudi Arabian cultural aspects and the politics. Christianity has evolved with this country, so it is quite different culturally to other parts of the world. Other religions just keep quiet so people don't notice them. Islam is more like a franchise or a fixed blueprint. They are the Starbucks of the religious world. It doesn't matter where you go it always looks the same, so would always seem foreign and out of place.