How the hell can you blame the concerted efforts of an entire group who, at that particular time, failed to follow the rules of cooperative conversation just one person who was nominally in charge.
For the reason I've already given: she created an environment in which the other candidates felt they had to shout in order to be heard. We see this in numerous clips in which Joanna's points are dismissed out of hand. In the clip where Laura walks out of the room and cries, she does it again: she interrupts Joanna before Joanna can finish what she is saying.
As further evidence, consider how well the women cooperated on the previous task, when Joanna led them to victory. Joanna was able to unify them, despite that being the first time they had worked together. Something turned an effective, winning team into a chaotic, losing one. The only thing that changed was the leader.
Finally, as several others have said, Laura showed what a nightmare she was on many subsequent tasks.
What did you want her to do - tell them all to raise their hand before speaking?
She should make sure each gets their chance to make their points. Once they were secure that they would be heard, they'd be less inclined to shout. They were not an unmanageable team.
Beyond that, to be honest I don't know. I do know that leadership matters, but I am not a good leader myself and I can't teach others to lead. I think some of it is down to things like confidence and body language. You need to know your own mind, and be consistent. Stella did a good job of organising the other team; I don't think she had a good win, but their performance was better than on the previous task. She was a better leader than Dan.
Do you really find it hard to believe that the same people could behave differently under different leaders? Have you never encountered a poor leader?
Of course the nature of the candidates and show means they are all competitive, all pro-active, and none of them will want to sit quietly while a poor leader sends their team down the toilet. So the usual problems of poor leadership are exaggerated beyond what you'd see in a typical work place.
Shes gotten better over the past few weeks and I think she miiight possibley make the final 2
However Jadine from series three was very aggresive at the start but she got better going on and its a shame she got home sick, I loved her.
So did I. I thought she might win, though my second choice was Simon so I was very pleased with the result anyway.
Thought it was mad Jadine went home against Lohit, but I guess the decision was based on her state of mind, not really her potential or skill in comparison to his.
She was awful tonight, nagging away and then getting petulant when she didn't get the response she wanted. She even criticised how he took criticism. It just came across as self obsessed neediness.
Yes. I have to admit that she hasn't done herself any favours in tonights episode. She appeared to have improved over the last few weeks, but all that good work has unfortunately been undone with her attitude in tonights episode.
Gone off her yet again after tonight. I was starting to like her, but I've done a full u-turn on my opinion of her now.
I felt like that about Liz too. I used to like her a lot,but her strop at the end of last weeks show, turned me off her a little. She shouldn't have gone over Stuart, but I'm pleased that she left before Stella.
Yes, back to the drawing board for Joanna I'm afraid. She's still as irritating and a nightmare to work with as she was at the beginning of the series - she's just been managing to suppress it inbetween.
Yes, back to the drawing board for Joanna I'm afraid. She's still as irritating and a nightmare to work with as she was at the beginning of the series - she's just been managing to suppress it inbetween.
I just think being PM brings out the worst in her which is probably not a good sign.
Her people skills with Jamie that were shown were not good.
Bearing in mind, Jamie actually did a good job for once, he did not deserve the barracking he got at the beginning, The way Joanna approached the issue of a lack of success resulting in people wanting refunds was also not good management. Could have destroyed his confidence.
I'm no fan of Jamie but I understood why he wanted some silence when they were walking the tour as he was focusing on what he could say and trying to remember the route. That takes concentration and very few people can concentrate when they are being talked at.
She wasn't 'aggressive as hell', she was passionate. And still is. However as a black woman, she's probably only too well aware of the lazy racial stereotyping/labels and decided to tone that passion down a bit.:yawn:
She defended herself tonight as being passionate, but that's an overused and much abused word. You can't defend bad behaviour by saying you're passionate. Poor Jamie's face was a picture when she aggressively accused him of being aggressive.
You can be passionate without being agressive. In Joanna's case she isn't really that agressive, but she is annoyingly OTT if she doesn't get her way when she is PM. I've project managed large teams and quickly learned there are better ways to get what you want than badgering people into submission. People eventually give in because they have to, but they resent it and that ill feeling persists. There are times you need to pull rank, but it really should be done sparingly, if ever.
I cringe everytime a candidate defends themselves by saying they are passionate about the process. It's a very empty thing to say when what you really mean is I'm passionate about not being fired. In The Apprentice "being passionate" about something is code for "I want my own way and I'll keep on about it until I get it".
Also being passionate is almost completely useless in business. Successful business people have to assess things in a clear, calculated manner. Being passionate about something means you will support an idea regardless of its merits because you love it so much. Enthusiasm is great, passion way over the top.
She defended herself tonight as being passionate, but that's an overused and much abused word. You can't defend bad behaviour by saying you're passionate. Poor Jamie's face was a picture when she aggressively accused him of being aggressive.
You can be passionate without being agressive. In Joanna's case she isn't really that agressive, but she is annoyingly OTT if she doesn't get her way when she is PM. I've project managed large teams and quickly learned there are better ways to get what you want than badgering people into submission. People eventually give in because they have to, but they resent it and that ill feeling persists. There are times you need to pull rank, but it really should be done sparingly, if ever.
I cringe everytime a candidate defends themselves by saying they are passionate about the process. It's a very empty thing to say when what you really mean is I'm passionate about not being fired. In The Apprentice "being passionate" about something is code for "I want my own way and I'll keep on about it until I get it".
Also being passionate is almost completely useless in business. Successful business people have to assess things in a clear, calculated manner. Being passionate about something means you will support an idea regardless of its merits because you love it so much. Enthusiasm is great, passion way over the top.
I think Joanna is finished. She wont win. It was jamie who would be going on the bus, so it was up to him to decide what to do on it. She should have left him to it.
At least Jamie worked out the route himself. Stella it seems doesnt even know the east end and didnt even go there to check it out.
She defended herself tonight as being passionate, but that's an overused and much abused word. You can't defend bad behaviour by saying you're passionate. Poor Jamie's face was a picture when she aggressively accused him of being aggressive.
You can be passionate without being agressive. In Joanna's case she isn't really that agressive, but she is annoyingly OTT if she doesn't get her way when she is PM. I've project managed large teams and quickly learned there are better ways to get what you want than badgering people into submission. People eventually give in because they have to, but they resent it and that ill feeling persists. There are times you need to pull rank, but it really should be done sparingly, if ever.
I cringe everytime a candidate defends themselves by saying they are passionate about the process. It's a very empty thing to say when what you really mean is I'm passionate about not being fired. In The Apprentice "being passionate" about something is code for "I want my own way and I'll keep on about it until I get it".
Also being passionate is almost completely useless in business. Successful business people have to assess things in a clear, calculated manner. Being passionate about something means you will support an idea regardless of its merits because you love it so much. Enthusiasm is great, passion way over the top.
I think she thought christmas had come when he got riled up, she got to act all innocent and put upon.
Jamie is halfway across the pedestrian crossing "Jamie we'll cross here" made me laugh.
I think Joanna is finished. She wont win. It was jamie who would be going on the bus, so it was up to him to decide what to do on it. She should have left him to it.
At least Jamie worked out the route himself. Stella it seems doesnt even know the east end and didnt even go there to check it out.
Right on ! if a white man had behaved the way she did Sir Alan would have been jumping over the desk to shake hands with him , talk about a hypocrite !
Odd that someone has chosen to play the race card when Joanne herself has a conviction for a racial attack on 3 taxi drivers.
I also thought Joanne was a bit of a berk in tonights show. She was continually nagging Jamie then claimed to feel threatened when he expressed his concern. He hardly threatened to spark her lights out. She also tried to back out of a deal that was offered and agreed. Very unprofessional.
I also thought Joanne was a bit of a berk in tonights show. She was continually nagging Jamie then claimed to feel threatened when he expressed his concern. He hardly threatened to spark her lights out. She also tried to back out of a deal that was offered and agreed. Very unprofessional.
Yes, back to the drawing board for Joanna I'm afraid. She's still as irritating and a nightmare to work with as she was at the beginning of the series - she's just been managing to suppress it inbetween.
I like Joanna but this week she was irritating and went backwards. I think it was possibly the pressure rather than suppressing anything.
Everything is subjected to the editing, most of what how Joanna was dipicted was through the lack of reponse she was getting from Jamie when she had ask him questions and he gave non-plus answers, which showed his lack of respect towards the PM, he did that too on a previous task which showed he can be moody when he doesn't get his way, but I'm not letting that distract me from appreciating that he did a good job this week, but equally if Jamie responded properly then I am sure we wouldn't have seen that many clips. Point in question Joanna didn't have any disagreement or had to repeat herself with Chris even though he made a hash of giving too much away when dealing with the tour operator.
I'm glad Joanna has made it to the interview stage and I hope she will be one of the candidates in the final. As much as people say that she is aggressive, passionate and annoying, my interpretation of what I seen is that she is forthright, dogmatic, vehement, resourceful and ultimately gets the job done. Good Luck Joanna
The Apprentice is black and white. Winning is everything.
Even Noorul won a task once.
Er my post wasn't clear enough probably, I was agreeing about the unprofessional part and furthering the point that she won the task because of chris's contract, which she was trying to weasel her way out of.
The real Jo is back This is how she was at the start, loud and aggressive, determined that her way is the only way. She toned it down a bit after getting warned in the boardroom, but she's been getting cocky with the praise she's had recently and it's showing.
How Jamie didn't brain her I do not know, she was a nightmare to work with. And going back to the tour company was unprofessional, the deal was done. Much as I dislike Chris, he pulled a smart move there, I'm glad it paid off, and Jo's face in the boardroom was a picture when she got told off and he was praised
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However Jadine from series three was very aggresive at the start but she got better going on and its a shame she got home sick, I loved her.
As further evidence, consider how well the women cooperated on the previous task, when Joanna led them to victory. Joanna was able to unify them, despite that being the first time they had worked together. Something turned an effective, winning team into a chaotic, losing one. The only thing that changed was the leader.
Finally, as several others have said, Laura showed what a nightmare she was on many subsequent tasks.
She should make sure each gets their chance to make their points. Once they were secure that they would be heard, they'd be less inclined to shout. They were not an unmanageable team.
Beyond that, to be honest I don't know. I do know that leadership matters, but I am not a good leader myself and I can't teach others to lead. I think some of it is down to things like confidence and body language. You need to know your own mind, and be consistent. Stella did a good job of organising the other team; I don't think she had a good win, but their performance was better than on the previous task. She was a better leader than Dan.
Do you really find it hard to believe that the same people could behave differently under different leaders? Have you never encountered a poor leader?
Of course the nature of the candidates and show means they are all competitive, all pro-active, and none of them will want to sit quietly while a poor leader sends their team down the toilet. So the usual problems of poor leadership are exaggerated beyond what you'd see in a typical work place.
So did I. I thought she might win, though my second choice was Simon so I was very pleased with the result anyway.
Thought it was mad Jadine went home against Lohit, but I guess the decision was based on her state of mind, not really her potential or skill in comparison to his.
Shame
I felt like that about Liz too. I used to like her a lot,but her strop at the end of last weeks show, turned me off her a little. She shouldn't have gone over Stuart, but I'm pleased that she left before Stella.
I just think being PM brings out the worst in her which is probably not a good sign.
Her people skills with Jamie that were shown were not good.
Bearing in mind, Jamie actually did a good job for once, he did not deserve the barracking he got at the beginning, The way Joanna approached the issue of a lack of success resulting in people wanting refunds was also not good management. Could have destroyed his confidence.
I'm no fan of Jamie but I understood why he wanted some silence when they were walking the tour as he was focusing on what he could say and trying to remember the route. That takes concentration and very few people can concentrate when they are being talked at.
You can be passionate without being agressive. In Joanna's case she isn't really that agressive, but she is annoyingly OTT if she doesn't get her way when she is PM. I've project managed large teams and quickly learned there are better ways to get what you want than badgering people into submission. People eventually give in because they have to, but they resent it and that ill feeling persists. There are times you need to pull rank, but it really should be done sparingly, if ever.
I cringe everytime a candidate defends themselves by saying they are passionate about the process. It's a very empty thing to say when what you really mean is I'm passionate about not being fired. In The Apprentice "being passionate" about something is code for "I want my own way and I'll keep on about it until I get it".
Also being passionate is almost completely useless in business. Successful business people have to assess things in a clear, calculated manner. Being passionate about something means you will support an idea regardless of its merits because you love it so much. Enthusiasm is great, passion way over the top.
Brilliant post. Agree with every word.
At least Jamie worked out the route himself. Stella it seems doesnt even know the east end and didnt even go there to check it out.
I think she thought christmas had come when he got riled up, she got to act all innocent and put upon.
Jamie is halfway across the pedestrian crossing "Jamie we'll cross here" made me laugh.
She will be in the Final at least.
Odd that someone has chosen to play the race card when Joanne herself has a conviction for a racial attack on 3 taxi drivers.
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/tv/Apprentice-58886.html
I also thought Joanne was a bit of a berk in tonights show. She was continually nagging Jamie then claimed to feel threatened when he expressed his concern. He hardly threatened to spark her lights out. She also tried to back out of a deal that was offered and agreed. Very unprofessional.
And eventually won her the task.
I like Joanna but this week she was irritating and went backwards. I think it was possibly the pressure rather than suppressing anything.
So what.That hardly mitigates the flaws.
The Apprentice is black and white. Winning is everything.
Even Noorul won a task once.
I'm glad Joanna has made it to the interview stage and I hope she will be one of the candidates in the final. As much as people say that she is aggressive, passionate and annoying, my interpretation of what I seen is that she is forthright, dogmatic, vehement, resourceful and ultimately gets the job done. Good Luck Joanna
Er my post wasn't clear enough probably, I was agreeing about the unprofessional part and furthering the point that she won the task because of chris's contract, which she was trying to weasel her way out of.
How Jamie didn't brain her I do not know, she was a nightmare to work with. And going back to the tour company was unprofessional, the deal was done. Much as I dislike Chris, he pulled a smart move there, I'm glad it paid off, and Jo's face in the boardroom was a picture when she got told off and he was praised