Given people in Syria and Iraq are bombed out and have no electricity, its daft to tell them to use the internet to access BBC WS.
Medium Wave from Cyprus carries across Palestine Syria Iraq where people need reliable news and information. Far from closing medium wave from Cyprus they should be increasing its power, hours and frequencies.
The Arabic MW and SW is continuing, the problem with funding is the Government stopped paying for the World service directly so has to come out of the UK licence fee which has been frozen so cuts have to be made.
Closing the WS English service in AM, BBC local radio on AM and in the evenings, BBC 2 daytime, BBC 3 and several other cuts are needed. With more to come. http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebbc/howwework/reports/deliveringqualityfirst.html
Local radio AM could have just been switched off but at least there are consultations and trials?
The Arabic MW and SW is continuing, the problem with funding is the Government stopped paying for the World service directly so has to come out of the UK licence fee which has been frozen so cuts have to be made.
Closing the WS English service in AM, BBC local radio on AM and in the evenings, BBC 2 daytime, BBC 3 and several other cuts are needed. With more to come. http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebbc/howwework/reports/deliveringqualityfirst.html
Local radio AM could have just been switched off but at least there are consultations and trials?
The BBC cannot keep using MW forever. Remember this is 1920s technology, not the 21st century.
Radio Bristol is on Freeview anyway so there is plainly no excuse. The transmitter on 1548 was 8 kW - it would not surprise me if the people complaining are actually living outside the proper TSA. Radio Merseyside on 1485 can be heard as far south as Birmingham - it would make sense to reduce the power on MW for some of these stations where MW is needed. They are obviously reaching far to far away from their intended service areas.
Given the decision has been made to switch off MW for local radio in the Quality First document, it would make perfect sense to help these people still living in the past by giving them digital radios (which will also get FM). I cannot believe anyone listening cannot get it on FM - would be iteresting to know where these listeners are
EVen FM is 1950s technology, but it would save the BBC a lot if MW locals were switched off.
The BBC cannot keep using MW forever. Remember this is 1920s technology, not the 21st century.
Radio Bristol is on Freeview anyway so there is plainly no excuse. The transmitter on 1548 was 8 kW - it would not surprise me if the people complaining are actually living outside the proper TSA. Radio Merseyside on 1485 can be heard as far south as Birmingham - it would make sense to reduce the power on MW for some of these stations where MW is needed. They are obviously reaching far to far away from their intended service areas.
Given the decision has been made to switch off MW for local radio in the Quality First document, it would make perfect sense to help these people still living in the past by giving them digital radios (which will also get FM). I cannot believe anyone listening cannot get it on FM - would be iteresting to know where these listeners are
EVen FM is 1950s technology, but it would save the BBC a lot if MW locals were switched off.
In principle I agree with what you are saying. But switching off BBC locals' MW transmitters just won't work everywhere. The large Forest of Dean area of Gloucestershire was originally planned to have two DAB transmitters, which have now disappeared in the latest planning proposals....which will leave the district only covered by AM. (The same, I believe, applies to Derbyshire.) Didn't the BBC say they would have to keep AM going for such stations anyway?
I have also noticed when driving around the area listening to BBC Radio Bristol that the Radstock/Midsomer Norton area is not too well served by FM or DAB, so maybe people around there use AM a lot?
I have also noticed when driving around the area listening to BBC Radio Bristol that the Radstock/Midsomer Norton area is not too well served by FM or DAB, so maybe people around there use AM a lot?
That is not Radio Bristol land though anymore - it's now BBC Somerset on 95.5.
In principle I agree with what you are saying. But switching off BBC locals' MW transmitters just won't work everywhere. The large Forest of Dean area of Gloucestershire was originally planned to have two DAB transmitters, which have now disappeared in the latest planning proposals....which will leave the district only covered by AM. (The same, I believe, applies to Derbyshire.) Didn't the BBC say they would have to keep AM going for such stations anyway?
If I remember rightly Derbyshire is one of the areas to keep MW, plus Asian Netowrk transmitters but can't remember the others. Please can someone remind me?
That is not Radio Bristol land though anymore - it's now BBC Somerset on 95.5.
I don't think so, have a look at the recent DAB updates issued by Ofcom. Radstock/Midsomer Norton still shown as in the Bristol/Bath patch, not Somerset's as shown by the red editorial lines.
If I remember rightly Derbyshire is one of the areas to keep MW, plus Asian Netowrk transmitters but can't remember the others. Please can someone remind me?
"Subject to further technical analysis, across the UK the stations which BBC management would expect to continue to transmit in Medium Wave include Radio 5 Live, BBC Asian Network, BBC Radio Jersey, BBC Radio Guernsey, BBC Gloucester, BBC Derby, Radio Scotland, Radio Wales and Radio Ulster/Foyle." (DQF, October 2011)
I remember Cumbria for one made a strong case to be added to that list.
Hasn't the tendency been to put the investment into foreign language services rather than the English language World Service? Just there are more moans from expats when the World Service is cut back.
Not only that but they have increased investment into television services in the language the population of Syria, Iraq, Egypt and the rest of the Middle East speak, Arabic. I've already linked in post 384 to an Independent article on January 25 saying that the audience for BBC Arabic has increased by 68% since 2011, this includes medium wave though in the real world the radio audience in the region is declining.
Listened to Radio Bristol this afternoon loads of people phoning in and complaining about am 1548 being turned off this week. Many elderly people saying could not get R B on FM. Despite what the know alls tell us people still do listen to A M radio.
How many is loads though? Do they live in the stations editorial area and could they get the station on FM, DAB or Freeview. The stations reach in their service area is 151,000.
The launch of BBC Radio Bristol on Freeview is interesting. It's for anyone who can receive BBC Points West and the press release states at the end
"For now, Radio Bristol will only be available on the Freeview platform and not on other TV platforms. The BBC is currently exploring options for making this and other Local Radio services more widely available. Further announcements on plans are likely early in the New Year."
A lot of elderly people probably don't know where to look on FM if they've listened on AM for years.
I would suggest once AM is back on they have regular features playing, say, 3 Elvis Presley or (shudder) Cliff Richard records back to back to give people chance to go looking for the station on the 'new' waveband. Any well know old artist that doesn't get played much on commercial radio these days would be a safe bet.
The way to do it is to do what they did in 1`990 with radio 2 MW. For the last 12 days before R2 left medium wave, there was an informtion service advisng listeners what to expect. Not only did they have the Reception aDvice team (they were called something else then), in the studio, but also it explained occasionally, what was actually on Radio 2 at the moment so you could tune away and find it.
I also think there was genuine help given to older people who were still using old non-FM radio sets to switch. There has to be something like that to encourage people to change. If there is no incentive then no-one will ever change.
Putting medium wave back on is NOT the answer. However, something like the above needs to be done. Once it goes back on, and given that Radio Bristol is the only BBC local on both MW AND Freeview the other two Freeview local radio services are FM and DAB only already), people should be helped to get a new radio to encourage the take-up of modern technology with older people.
It would save the BBC a lot of money over time as well.
My parents are in their late eighties but can easily cope with tuning radios/tv's and using the internet. Remember they were only in their 40's when home technology started becoming prevalent in the 1970's. Who are these elderly who can cope with moving a switch from AM to FM and turning a knob until they hear their favourite prog?
My parents are in their late eighties but can easily cope with tuning radios/tv's and using the internet. Remember they were only in their 40's when home technology started becoming prevalent in the 1970's. Who are these elderly who can cope with moving a switch from AM to FM and turning a knob until they hear their favourite prog?
I did not mean to generalise but if on Radio Bristol it was elderly people complaining - I can't be sure, whoever it was the same argument applies. Anyone who doesn't want to migrate to Digital is living in the past. Anyone who does needs persuading if they have not already done so.
I was pointing out that it may help people if something similar wo what happened in 1990 with Radio 2 was implemented.
My parents are in their late eighties but can easily cope with tuning radios/tv's and using the internet. Remember they were only in their 40's when home technology started becoming prevalent in the 1970's. Who are these elderly who can cope with moving a switch from AM to FM and turning a knob until they hear their favourite prog?
People don't like change, there was great amusement up here when the BBC moved from Medium Wave to VHF FM. There were articles and letters in the paper about how VHF FM did not work in cars, did not work on portables and was impossible to tune in - rather like the rubbish you read now about DAB! The Highlands and Islands had been exclusively VHF FM for years so were very amused by these Southerners - not just elderly, there were much younger 'experts' also complaining (just like now with DAB).
My concern for BBC Radio Devon specifically is Saturday afternoons where we often have:
Plymouth DAB/FM: Plymouth Argyle football commentary
Torbay MW: Torquay United football commentary
Exeter MW: Exeter City football commentary
Exeter FM: Exeter Chiefs rugby commentary
North Hessary FM/Torbay FM/N.Devon MW: "Normal" programming
Exeter/Torbay/N.Devon DAB: "Normal" programming
With no MW sites, the only available separate DAB splits are 1) Plymouth & 2) Exeter/Torbay/N.Devon combined.
Torbay FM relays North Hessary so no split possible there, Plymouth & Exeter FM can both be split.
Radio Devon don't have the rights to stream Exeter City & Plymouth Argyle commentaries online, so that's not the answer either.
I'm not suggesting for a minute that it would be economical to run 3x MW transmitters only for 3-4 hours on a Saturday afternoon, but it IS going to be a bit of a mess for Radio Devon's sports dept if they are switched off!
MW switchoff isn't going to happen without notice - over the summer is more likly due to sports rights anyways.
As rights come up for new agreement's, online will inevitably be included, some rights may drop to other broadcasters, and dab opt outs could be introduced.
With north Devon DAB being on a separate frequency you could have....
Plymouth and FM - No change
N Devon DAB - No Change
Exeter / Torbay DAb - Exeter City and Torquay United on separate streams (see also Five Live)
Online - Normal Programming.
South Devon is then treated the same as Plymouth, I.e. no Normal Programming, or the BBC could leverage additional capacity on the multiplex to carry BBC Devons regular programmes.
DAB+ opt outs are also a possibility, I.e. BBC Devon on original DAB 64kbps/mono, BBC Devon Exeter City and BBC Devon Torquay United in DAB+ 32kbps. For sports commentaries you might be able to get away with an even lower DAB+ bit rate and shave more off the normal programming to squeeze Exeter Chiefs in too.
If it's anything like BBC Lancashire used to be, not all the commentaries clash every week anyway (and do the the Exeter teams really play at the same time? The three Nottingham ones never do)
The empty AM channels that I notice here are 648Khz ex BBC W/S, 666/954 Khz which I think should be offered to Gold for the east Devon area and 1530/954Khz which I think should also be offered to Gold for coverage of the Worcester/Hereford areas. I use to get a commercial station clearly on 603Khz which I think was from Cheltenham but that went silent some years ago. I was able to hear Valleys radio on 1116Khz but now that transmitter is silent I can hear BBC local radio from the Channel Islands instead.
I would love to see 648Khz used for high powered use as it would offer excellant coverage from one of the higher powered transmitters.
Can anyone tell me if Radio Bristol on 1548 has actually come back on air yet? This transmitter was 8 kW - strong for medium wave!
That is not Radio Bristol land though anymore - it's now BBC Somerset on 95.5.
If you take a look at the latest local DAB rollout plan there is a new DAB transmitter planned for Midsomer Noreton for the Bristol Bath multiplex as Radstock/Norton is in BANES ( Bath and NE Somerset county)
My bet is there are quite a few populated areas at the moment not served well by FM or DAB where people rely on AM. It's alright saying that these people should use Freview Cable Satellite or online radio services but this means radio becomes a fixed point service again as it was up until the 1950's when radios were mains operated valved sets.Hardly progres more like a major backward step if you ask me.
This will see an end to this transmitter - which has been on air since 1951 as far as I know.
And before that in the Ovalteeney days, it operated an English language daytime service on Long Wave in much the same way that Atlantic 252 did 40 years later.
How does that work? OK, 1548 is a higher frequency, so will need more power to cover the same area as 1152, but 3.5 times the power?
Yes, those powers applied right from the start. A high frequency is good for melting a city but avoiding too much overspill, whereas a lower frequency goes further and Long Wave goes on forever.
That's why Capital used 557 from Lots Road before the high power Saffron Green 1548 site was ready, and why Laser, Caroline and Spectrum also used 558.
Comments
Closing the WS English service in AM, BBC local radio on AM and in the evenings, BBC 2 daytime, BBC 3 and several other cuts are needed. With more to come.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebbc/howwework/reports/deliveringqualityfirst.html
Local radio AM could have just been switched off but at least there are consultations and trials?
The BBC cannot keep using MW forever. Remember this is 1920s technology, not the 21st century.
Radio Bristol is on Freeview anyway so there is plainly no excuse. The transmitter on 1548 was 8 kW - it would not surprise me if the people complaining are actually living outside the proper TSA. Radio Merseyside on 1485 can be heard as far south as Birmingham - it would make sense to reduce the power on MW for some of these stations where MW is needed. They are obviously reaching far to far away from their intended service areas.
Given the decision has been made to switch off MW for local radio in the Quality First document, it would make perfect sense to help these people still living in the past by giving them digital radios (which will also get FM). I cannot believe anyone listening cannot get it on FM - would be iteresting to know where these listeners are
EVen FM is 1950s technology, but it would save the BBC a lot if MW locals were switched off.
In principle I agree with what you are saying. But switching off BBC locals' MW transmitters just won't work everywhere. The large Forest of Dean area of Gloucestershire was originally planned to have two DAB transmitters, which have now disappeared in the latest planning proposals....which will leave the district only covered by AM. (The same, I believe, applies to Derbyshire.) Didn't the BBC say they would have to keep AM going for such stations anyway?
That is not Radio Bristol land though anymore - it's now BBC Somerset on 95.5.
If I remember rightly Derbyshire is one of the areas to keep MW, plus Asian Netowrk transmitters but can't remember the others. Please can someone remind me?
I don't think so, have a look at the recent DAB updates issued by Ofcom. Radstock/Midsomer Norton still shown as in the Bristol/Bath patch, not Somerset's as shown by the red editorial lines.
"Subject to further technical analysis, across the UK the stations which BBC management would expect to continue to transmit in Medium Wave include Radio 5 Live, BBC Asian Network, BBC Radio Jersey, BBC Radio Guernsey, BBC Gloucester, BBC Derby, Radio Scotland, Radio Wales and Radio Ulster/Foyle." (DQF, October 2011)
I remember Cumbria for one made a strong case to be added to that list.
Not only that but they have increased investment into television services in the language the population of Syria, Iraq, Egypt and the rest of the Middle East speak, Arabic. I've already linked in post 384 to an Independent article on January 25 saying that the audience for BBC Arabic has increased by 68% since 2011, this includes medium wave though in the real world the radio audience in the region is declining.
How many is loads though? Do they live in the stations editorial area and could they get the station on FM, DAB or Freeview. The stations reach in their service area is 151,000.
The launch of BBC Radio Bristol on Freeview is interesting. It's for anyone who can receive BBC Points West and the press release states at the end
"For now, Radio Bristol will only be available on the Freeview platform and not on other TV platforms. The BBC is currently exploring options for making this and other Local Radio services more widely available. Further announcements on plans are likely early in the New Year."
I would suggest once AM is back on they have regular features playing, say, 3 Elvis Presley or (shudder) Cliff Richard records back to back to give people chance to go looking for the station on the 'new' waveband. Any well know old artist that doesn't get played much on commercial radio these days would be a safe bet.
I also think there was genuine help given to older people who were still using old non-FM radio sets to switch. There has to be something like that to encourage people to change. If there is no incentive then no-one will ever change.
Putting medium wave back on is NOT the answer. However, something like the above needs to be done. Once it goes back on, and given that Radio Bristol is the only BBC local on both MW AND Freeview the other two Freeview local radio services are FM and DAB only already), people should be helped to get a new radio to encourage the take-up of modern technology with older people.
It would save the BBC a lot of money over time as well.
I did not mean to generalise but if on Radio Bristol it was elderly people complaining - I can't be sure, whoever it was the same argument applies. Anyone who doesn't want to migrate to Digital is living in the past. Anyone who does needs persuading if they have not already done so.
I was pointing out that it may help people if something similar wo what happened in 1990 with Radio 2 was implemented.
People don't like change, there was great amusement up here when the BBC moved from Medium Wave to VHF FM. There were articles and letters in the paper about how VHF FM did not work in cars, did not work on portables and was impossible to tune in - rather like the rubbish you read now about DAB! The Highlands and Islands had been exclusively VHF FM for years so were very amused by these Southerners - not just elderly, there were much younger 'experts' also complaining (just like now with DAB).
Plymouth DAB/FM: Plymouth Argyle football commentary
Torbay MW: Torquay United football commentary
Exeter MW: Exeter City football commentary
Exeter FM: Exeter Chiefs rugby commentary
North Hessary FM/Torbay FM/N.Devon MW: "Normal" programming
Exeter/Torbay/N.Devon DAB: "Normal" programming
With no MW sites, the only available separate DAB splits are 1) Plymouth & 2) Exeter/Torbay/N.Devon combined.
Torbay FM relays North Hessary so no split possible there, Plymouth & Exeter FM can both be split.
Radio Devon don't have the rights to stream Exeter City & Plymouth Argyle commentaries online, so that's not the answer either.
I'm not suggesting for a minute that it would be economical to run 3x MW transmitters only for 3-4 hours on a Saturday afternoon, but it IS going to be a bit of a mess for Radio Devon's sports dept if they are switched off!
As rights come up for new agreement's, online will inevitably be included, some rights may drop to other broadcasters, and dab opt outs could be introduced.
With north Devon DAB being on a separate frequency you could have....
Plymouth and FM - No change
N Devon DAB - No Change
Exeter / Torbay DAb - Exeter City and Torquay United on separate streams (see also Five Live)
Online - Normal Programming.
South Devon is then treated the same as Plymouth, I.e. no Normal Programming, or the BBC could leverage additional capacity on the multiplex to carry BBC Devons regular programmes.
DAB+ opt outs are also a possibility, I.e. BBC Devon on original DAB 64kbps/mono, BBC Devon Exeter City and BBC Devon Torquay United in DAB+ 32kbps. For sports commentaries you might be able to get away with an even lower DAB+ bit rate and shave more off the normal programming to squeeze Exeter Chiefs in too.
If it's anything like BBC Lancashire used to be, not all the commentaries clash every week anyway (and do the the Exeter teams really play at the same time? The three Nottingham ones never do)
Can anyone tell me if Radio Bristol on 1548 has actually come back on air yet? This transmitter was 8 kW - strong for medium wave!
Not for that end of the MF band it's not.
1548 from Saffron Green is 97.5kW to serve London, 1152 for the same site is only 27kW, to provide exactly the same coverage.
I had forgotten about the London transmitters - yes they are a lot stronger.
As for Bristol, is BBC back on yet on 1548?
Thanks
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lessentiel.lu%2Ffr%2Fnews%2Fluxembourg%2Fstory%2F19784995&edit-text=&act=url
This will see an end to this transmitter - which has been on air since 1951 as far as I know.
If you take a look at the latest local DAB rollout plan there is a new DAB transmitter planned for Midsomer Noreton for the Bristol Bath multiplex as Radstock/Norton is in BANES ( Bath and NE Somerset county)
My bet is there are quite a few populated areas at the moment not served well by FM or DAB where people rely on AM. It's alright saying that these people should use Freview Cable Satellite or online radio services but this means radio becomes a fixed point service again as it was up until the 1950's when radios were mains operated valved sets.Hardly progres more like a major backward step if you ask me.
How does that work? OK, 1548 is a higher frequency, so will need more power to cover the same area as 1152, but 3.5 times the power?
That's why Capital used 557 from Lots Road before the high power Saffron Green 1548 site was ready, and why Laser, Caroline and Spectrum also used 558.