You obviously dont read your Bibles then as the chronology with creation being 6000 years ago was a side annotation on most Bibles at the turn of the 19th century.
I didn't say that I wasn't aware of this 6,000 year belief or hadn't read it in my bible or even studied the scriptures with this in mind, of course I have! But I believe research and theological study has moved on since the 19th century. As I have studied the bible throughout my Christian life I (like others) have reappraised my views and am open to questions regarding this and all questions about my faith (as the apostle Paul said 'ready always to defend and give an account of why and what you believe') This is why I joined this thread.
Theological research has uncovered quite a lot of information over the last century + and we have a number of new translations and paraphrases of the Bible, dozens of archaeological digs and studies that help in the understanding of the Bible.
In the past Christians trended to rely on a few religious institutions and denominational theological view-points.
this isn't the case any longer - just as the internet and modern media has affected research in other areas Christian Bible Study has probably moved on more in the past 20 years than it moved in the previous few 100 years.
I am not dependant on the teaching of a few priests or monks and theologian’s. Ordinary Christians can study the bible, access historical documents and archaeological data and theological studies from every Christian tradition that does or has ever existed the world over.
In other words we can do on the internet in a matter of hours what it would preciously taken a lifetime of detailed and exhaustive study to achieve.
1) The evidence points to the universe being billions of years old because it is billions of years old.
2) The evidence points to the universe being billions of years old because a sky man created the earth in 5 days and the rest of the universe in 1 day, by magic, but made it appear billions of years old.
You've still missed my point. If God exists outside of our physical universe and is as I believe eternal and All-mighty then He could do as he pleased. and nothing that we know or understand could/can/or ever will change that.
Most people can understand the idea of universes beyond out universe, with different laws governing them, or alternative universes and/or multiverses so why not an eternal (God Realm) that we refer to as Heaven.
You've still missed my point. If God exists outside of our physical universe and is as I believe eternal and All-mighty then He could do as he pleased. and nothing that we know or understand could/can/or ever will change that.
I understand your clumsy and simplistic worldview perfectly fine, thanks. What you're saying here is a repeat of what you said earlier and something I had already taken into account when I asked which was more likely.
The age of Earth has nothing to do with evolution.
If you think the Earth is only thousands of years old, why is it actually billions of years old?
The age of Earth has nothing to do with evolution.
According to evolutionists it took Millions of years for life to evolve, and more millions of years for it to become complex, still more millions for it to climb out of the sea, even more millions for life to evolve into - well you get the picture.
So how can you say evolution has nothing to do with the age of the earth or the age of the earth has nothing to do with evolution?
If you think the Earth is only thousands of years old, why is it actually billions of years old?
I have already answered this (in my opinion) the earth is not as old as evolutionists think and/or as young as some 19th century Creationist's believed.
I understand your clumsy and simplistic worldview perfectly fine, thanks. What you're saying here is a repeat of what you said earlier and something I had already taken into account when I asked which was more likely.
Yes, regrettably there will be blinkered, ignorant clowns in this world for many years to come.
How come when others make a light hearted quip there's laughter, when a Christian says something in jest he receives a personal insult (ignorant clown) I never accused anyone of being uneducated because they hold views that differ from mine, so why am I being accused of such for holding my opinion? you needn't bother answering that with another insult it was a 'rhetorical question'
I can accept people believing in a God / higher being, but believing in the story of Noah's Ark etc is a bit much, especially if all this 'the animals went in two by two' stuff is believed.
The lions, cheetahs, leapords and hyenas would have killed the only antelope and zebras alive within a few days.
I can accept people believing in a God / higher being, but believing in the story of Noah's Ark etc is a bit much, especially if all this 'the animals went in two by two' stuff is believed.
The lions, cheetahs, leapords and hyenas would have killed the only antelope and zebras alive within a few days.
We discussed this some time ago. The conclusion we reached was that all the animals were shrunk and kept in separate match boxes. Less space needed for animals and food.
I used to think this too, but now there is too much evidence that it is an essential part of human nature to believe in something unknowable. It's just ineradicable, it seems. We've had enough logic and science for decades to discredit supernatural belief, but religion is more popular than ever, worldwide.
Humans are so complex they seem to need a spiritual outlet, as much as biology.
I agree with this I think (apart from the vague implication that religion should be eradicated.) If people think that science doesn't have all the answers then they'll continue to look elsewhere. And to be honest I can't imagine science ever giving an answer to how the universe came to exist that is simple enough for anyone without a degree in quantum physics to get their head around anyway. It will always come down to taking someone else's word for it, be it a priest or a scientist.
I agree with this I think (apart from the vague implication that religion should be eradicated.) If people think that science doesn't have all the answers then they'll continue to look elsewhere. And to be honest I can't imagine science ever giving an answer to how the universe came to exist that is simple enough for anyone without a degree in quantum physics to get their head around anyway. It will always come down to taking someone else's word for it, be it a priest or a scientist.
I don't think most people look to religion for scientific answers though. Religion that seeks to answer scientific questions is bad religion. Similarly science can't really answer questions about how we should give meaning to our lives or how to live. Science that tries to do that is bad science.
The whole science versus religion thing is a total misunderstanding in my opinion.
The internet has killed off most of religion's intellectual credibility, insofar as science and philosophy goes. These religions can no longer stand up to scrutiny of any depth.
But the bible has always been scrutinised and subject to academic criticism since the age of enlightenment.
Also, there was an interesting tidbit on the Big Questions this morning. Apparently, if you exclude active Christians, Muslims etc. there are 26million people in this country who believe in some form of 'higher power' but don't align themselves with any particular religion. That makes them the biggest grouping.
Also, there was an interesting tidbit on the Big Questions this morning. Apparently, if you exclude active Christians, Muslims etc. there are 26million people in this country who believe in some form of 'higher power' but don't align themselves with any particular religion. That makes them the biggest grouping.
Interesting, how does that equate with the number of atheists?
I can accept people believing in a God / higher being, but believing in the story of Noah's Ark etc is a bit much, especially if all this 'the animals went in two by two' stuff is believed.
The lions, cheetahs, leapords and hyenas would have killed the only antelope and zebras alive within a few days.
Plus what about those microscopic creatures they didn't even know existed, yet? And how did the animals from the Arctic and Antarctic get to the Middle East? What about the marsupials? How would you manage to get just two amoeba? What about the animals you didn't yet have the metalworking skills to keep safely contained in a cage? How did you catch the fast ones like cheetahs and panthers? How did you stop them all from eating eachother? And how could you find a boat big enough for all of them and their food and over a month's worth of pee and poo? How did you staff this? You'd need more than a few creepy incestuous rellies... How did you keep the polar bears in the same place as you kept the rainforest monkey things?
And as this was written to be taken literally - and was taken literally for nearly 2000 years, how can anyone reconcile that with this mysteriously new and convenient explanation of things being "parables" or "metaphors"? Not it ain't. You disrespect every christian that went before you if you don't believe it literally.:D
Plus what about those microscopic creatures they didn't even know existed, yet? And how did the animals from the Arctic and Antarctic get to the Middle East? What about the marsupials? How would you manage to get just two amoeba? What about the animals you didn't yet have the metalworking skills to keep safely contained in a cage? How did you catch the fast ones like cheetahs and panthers? How did you stop them all from eating eachother? And how could you find a boat big enough for all of them and their food and over a month's worth of pee and poo? How did you staff this? You'd need more than a few creepy incestuous rellies... How did you keep the polar bears in the same place as you kept the rainforest monkey things?
And as this was written to be taken literally - and was taken literally for nearly 2000 years, how can anyone reconcile that with this mysteriously new and convenient explanation of things being "parables" or "metaphors"? Not it ain't. You disrespect every christian that went before you if you don't believe it literally.:D
What about all the plants? Did they have a seed repository too?
That's a Terry Pratchet question. Turn to drink I expect. I think they start to go transparent as people stop believing in them - when the last believer dies or deconverts they just fade away - *poof* - and the bartender collects their glass and sighs for a lost customer.
All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of the grass
The grass withers and the flower falls off,
But the word of the Lord endures forever.
Comments
I didn't say that I wasn't aware of this 6,000 year belief or hadn't read it in my bible or even studied the scriptures with this in mind, of course I have! But I believe research and theological study has moved on since the 19th century. As I have studied the bible throughout my Christian life I (like others) have reappraised my views and am open to questions regarding this and all questions about my faith (as the apostle Paul said 'ready always to defend and give an account of why and what you believe') This is why I joined this thread.
Theological research has uncovered quite a lot of information over the last century + and we have a number of new translations and paraphrases of the Bible, dozens of archaeological digs and studies that help in the understanding of the Bible.
In the past Christians trended to rely on a few religious institutions and denominational theological view-points.
this isn't the case any longer - just as the internet and modern media has affected research in other areas Christian Bible Study has probably moved on more in the past 20 years than it moved in the previous few 100 years.
I am not dependant on the teaching of a few priests or monks and theologian’s. Ordinary Christians can study the bible, access historical documents and archaeological data and theological studies from every Christian tradition that does or has ever existed the world over.
In other words we can do on the internet in a matter of hours what it would preciously taken a lifetime of detailed and exhaustive study to achieve.
You've still missed my point. If God exists outside of our physical universe and is as I believe eternal and All-mighty then He could do as he pleased. and nothing that we know or understand could/can/or ever will change that.
Most people can understand the idea of universes beyond out universe, with different laws governing them, or alternative universes and/or multiverses so why not an eternal (God Realm) that we refer to as Heaven.
Not while I'm around on here it won't!:D
Yes, regrettably there will be blinkered, ignorant clowns in this world for many years to come.
The Jews didn't think the world (earth) was flat.
The age of Earth has nothing to do with evolution.
According to evolutionists it took Millions of years for life to evolve, and more millions of years for it to become complex, still more millions for it to climb out of the sea, even more millions for life to evolve into - well you get the picture.
So how can you say evolution has nothing to do with the age of the earth or the age of the earth has nothing to do with evolution?
If you think the Earth is only thousands of years old, why is it actually billions of years old?
I have already answered this (in my opinion) the earth is not as old as evolutionists think and/or as young as some 19th century Creationist's believed.
Ditto!
How come when others make a light hearted quip there's laughter, when a Christian says something in jest he receives a personal insult (ignorant clown) I never accused anyone of being uneducated because they hold views that differ from mine, so why am I being accused of such for holding my opinion? you needn't bother answering that with another insult it was a 'rhetorical question'
The lions, cheetahs, leapords and hyenas would have killed the only antelope and zebras alive within a few days.
We discussed this some time ago. The conclusion we reached was that all the animals were shrunk and kept in separate match boxes. Less space needed for animals and food.
It's obvious when you think about it.
I don't think most people look to religion for scientific answers though. Religion that seeks to answer scientific questions is bad religion. Similarly science can't really answer questions about how we should give meaning to our lives or how to live. Science that tries to do that is bad science.
The whole science versus religion thing is a total misunderstanding in my opinion.
Interesting, how does that equate with the number of atheists?
Plus what about those microscopic creatures they didn't even know existed, yet? And how did the animals from the Arctic and Antarctic get to the Middle East? What about the marsupials? How would you manage to get just two amoeba? What about the animals you didn't yet have the metalworking skills to keep safely contained in a cage? How did you catch the fast ones like cheetahs and panthers? How did you stop them all from eating eachother? And how could you find a boat big enough for all of them and their food and over a month's worth of pee and poo? How did you staff this? You'd need more than a few creepy incestuous rellies... How did you keep the polar bears in the same place as you kept the rainforest monkey things?
And as this was written to be taken literally - and was taken literally for nearly 2000 years, how can anyone reconcile that with this mysteriously new and convenient explanation of things being "parables" or "metaphors"? Not it ain't. You disrespect every christian that went before you if you don't believe it literally.:D
What about all the plants? Did they have a seed repository too?
Not sure - someone will know exactly I expect - but I think there are maybe 9 million atheists in the UK? (quick google).
That's a Terry Pratchet question. Turn to drink I expect. I think they start to go transparent as people stop believing in them - when the last believer dies or deconverts they just fade away - *poof* - and the bartender collects their glass and sighs for a lost customer.
They spin in their graves. Apparently.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346758/Ancient-Egyptian-statue-started-MOVING-sparking-fears-struck-curse-Pharaohs.html
The grass withers and the flower falls off,
But the word of the Lord endures forever.
Whom has eaten too much,
The Word of The Lord is full of shit.
I can write poetry too, bow down and worship me!