but quite often you've compared what gay people have to through to what black people have to go through but now you dont even know how to refer to us.
No, I'm under no delusions as to what you currently wish to be called and have no problem using that.
This is just an interesting debate opening it up and talking about it. Why do people who are not black want to be called black? And to apply that to someone with any slightest trace of non-white blood, just makes it more strange.
Personally I would use the term you wanted. But this changing it ever so many years is just ridiculous for 'black people' and for 'gay people'. Then there is the jumping all over people who don't instantly change because someone somewhere has decided it's time for a change. It all become a bit farcical when a term that was never offensive is now offensive if you refuse to be as other tell you.
Offence is offence - a term is not one or the other.
IC1 – White person, northern European/northern America type
IC2 – Mediterranean European/Hispanic
IC3 – African/Afro-Caribbean person
IC4 – Indian, Pakistani, Nepalese, Maldivian, Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi, or any other (South) Asian person
IC5 – Chinese, Japanese, or South-East Asian person
IC6 – Middle Eastern person
IC0, IC7 or IC9 – Origin unknown
That doesn't consider nationality though, only skin colour and apparent ethnicity.
A black person born and bred in Birmingham would be what, same as a Chinese lady born in Luton?
Also, where does a 'person of colour' fit in that scale??
Yes I can see that but then do we have to import everything from America?
America has the term "Rube" for an uneducated rough redneck type - A chav we would call them. But I haven't seen it catching on here. Shame because I like "Rube" - Such a lovely round sounding word.
I think that the British equivalent for "rube" would be a yokel, or carrot cruncher.
Rube is reserved for someone who lives out in the boonies, not a city dweller.
I'm not sure that the US has a specific term that equates to chav, perhaps juvenile delinquent?
My generation the correct way was to say "coloured '' about someone when talking about someone I met/friends with was correct way
I now tend to say ''dark complexion'' if asked to discribe anyone
This is just an interesting debate opening it up and talking about it. Why do people who are not black want to be called black? And to apply that to someone with any slightest trace of non-white blood, just makes it more strange.
Personally I'm just conforming to society's acceptance of the "one-drop" rule. Why would bisexual people wish to identify as gay?
I did read on a different (American) forum someone saying how she considered Zayn from One Direction as the most good-looking from the group because of his "exotic" looks and they were promptly criticized by other forumers who said it was borderline racist and patronising, as it set him apart as 'other'.
That is a very good point. All this pussy-footing around pretending not to notice someone's skin colour is laughable.
Can I not like someone's skin colour and find it very sexy? It is as much a part of them as anything else. And I have met some people with beautiful skin colour and if most others don't have that, then it is exotic.
Some people want to see offence even when giving them a great compliment.
My generation to say "coloured '' about someone when talking about someone I met/friends with was correct way
I now tend to say ''dark complexion'' if asked to discribe anyone
Dear god. I have visions of people really at pains to describe people for fear of using the out-of-fashion terminology
"Well madam, did you get a good look at the man who stole your handbag?"
"Yes I did, he was tall, wearing a red jacket and white cap"
"Anything else?"
"Yes but how do I....? He was, you know, he was b - b..."
"Yes?"
"You know <whispers> he had a dark complexion! "
The way some people go on you'd think having to describe people was an hourly situation It really doesn't come up that often. And if it does and you accidentally use a word that offends someone, apologise and use the word they prefer. It's not rocket science.
Sooner you than me!
Slope is a derogatory term, coined by G.I.s first in Korea, and later used in Viet-Nam.
Oriental should be okay, the Orient means the East I think.
Dear god. I have visions of people really at pains to describe people for fear of using the out-of-fashion terminology
"Well madam, did you get a good look at the man who stole your handbag?"
"Yes I did, he was tall, wearing a red jacket and white cap"
"Anything else?"
"Yes but how do I....? He was, you know, he was b - b..."
"Yes?"
"You know <whispers> he had a dark complexion! "
But Pumping Iron may prefer to be referred to using that term - Is he now not allowed as some others don't like it?
What about his rights?
You quote me saying "call yourself what you want", and then ask me this?
Now I can think of half a dozen highly offensive derogatory terms that have been use against SE Asian people but "Oriental" isn't one of them. In fact right now in 2014 today 500 yard up the road in my town we have a place called "Oriental Buffet". I haven't seen any people calling for it to be shut down or change its name and it's one of the town nicest eating places.
To me the Orient is a fascinating area that is on my bucket list.
If we're not allowed to be offended on the behalf of others then you shouldn't be able to dictate to others what is and is not offensive. You may not understand the history or the connotation, but if someone asks you not use a certain term around them then the decent thing to do would be to at least consider their point of view instead of digging in your heels like a petulant five year old. And them merely asking is not akin to being called a racist.
As I said earlier, it's not the term which is offensive but the high handedness implied by wilfully ignoring what someone wishes to call themselves.
So if I referred to Pumping Iron as 'Oriental' (Can't think how it would come up in a conversation here) I might get some others telling me that I was being offensive and that I should not use that term any more. But if I ignored them and still referred to Pumping Iron using the term he wished, I would be labelled racist by others.
I have heard some people (Let's call them non-white just as a shorthand) who don't like being called Black as they are not black. Yet someone somewhere has decided for them yet again.
The way some people go on you'd think having to describe people was an hourly situation It really doesn't come up that often. And if it does and you accidentally use a word that offends someone, apologise and use the word they prefer. It's not rocket science.
Its all those "black friends" that every poster here conveniently has.
So if I referred to Pumping Iron as 'Oriental' (Can't think how it would come up in a conversation here) I might get some others telling me that I was being offensive and that I should not use that term any more. But if I ignored them and still referred to Pumping Iron using the term he wished, I would be labelled racist by others.
It'd be up to Pumping Iron to decide. If he didn't mind then I'd be surprised if anyone else did provided the word wasn't too generally offensive.
If you were to call other SE Asian people Oriental "because Pumping Iron said it was okay" then that'd be offensive.
I have heard some people (Let's call them non-white just as a shorthand) who don't like being called Black as they are not black. Yet someone somewhere has decided for them yet again.
I've decided this for myself. If I objected I'd let the person I was speaking to know.
Yes I found out that in some parts of the USA it's an offensive word. However in most other parts of the world, including much of the Far East, it's s perfectly acceptable and everyday word.
I will continue to use it, until someone informs me that it's wrong. If I know a person is Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc, I will use that. But in the absence of that detail, I see no issue with the more generic "oriental" - certainly not using "Caucasian Asian" as Kippeh referred to earlier.
No, I'm under no delusions as to what you currently wish to be called and have no problem using that.
This is just an interesting debate opening it up and talking about it. Why do people who are not black want to be called black? And to apply that to someone with any slightest trace of non-white blood, just makes it more strange.
Personally I would use the term you wanted. But this changing it ever so many years is just ridiculous for 'black people' and for 'gay people'. Then there is the jumping all over people who don't instantly change because someone somewhere has decided it's time for a change. It all become a bit farcical when a term that was never offensive is now offensive if you refuse to be as other tell you.
Offence is offence - a term is not one or the other.
I don't get that either. The mixed race guy I referred to earlier is actually lighter skin tone than me (I get my swarthiness from being of part Italian descent). Yet on many ethnic surveys he would probably describe himself as "black", which he's clearly not, and I describe myself as white, which I'm clearly not, skin tone wise.
I don't get that either. The mixed race guy I referred to earlier is actually lighter skin tone than me (I get my swarthiness from being of part Italian descent). Yet on many ethnic surveys he would probably describe himself as "black", which he's clearly not, and I describe myself as white, which I'm clearly not, skin tone wise.
What is the correct PC term from someone who clearly hails from the Indian subcontinent? I thought about Indian, but that doesn't seem right as they could be from other countries other than India, like Pakistan or Bangladesh. Asian doesn't sound right either as that covers everyone from the Chinese to Russians to Indians, all of whom look vastly different. This is a serious question - what is the correct term?
Without wishing to be argumentative, why black ,anyway? all black people are "brown" are they not?
also, mixed race people - clearly not black, and often a very pale brown, still tend to treat themselves as "black", don't they? Why?
Its stupid all this, but yes, never heard ref to brown people, if youre gonna differentiate then caucasian can be pink, red (if youre alex ferguson or simon hughes, andrew neil, al) or a bit yellow or even orange for dave cameron lol
I like the sound of 'Oriental' too but it's been frowned upon for a while I think.
Just stooopid
I dont give two hoots, if an idea is pathetic, why should I
Ironic thing is all the black people I know are so laid back and chilled and dont take offense easily...wonder who all this is for the benefit of...as I said, if youre not knowngly offensive and mean no harm, because youre not up to date with all the correct terms, then you arent..or racist obviously
Comments
That would apply to wrestlers like the Ultimate Warrior, who came from parts unknown.
No, I'm under no delusions as to what you currently wish to be called and have no problem using that.
This is just an interesting debate opening it up and talking about it. Why do people who are not black want to be called black? And to apply that to someone with any slightest trace of non-white blood, just makes it more strange.
Personally I would use the term you wanted. But this changing it ever so many years is just ridiculous for 'black people' and for 'gay people'. Then there is the jumping all over people who don't instantly change because someone somewhere has decided it's time for a change. It all become a bit farcical when a term that was never offensive is now offensive if you refuse to be as other tell you.
Offence is offence - a term is not one or the other.
That doesn't consider nationality though, only skin colour and apparent ethnicity.
A black person born and bred in Birmingham would be what, same as a Chinese lady born in Luton?
Also, where does a 'person of colour' fit in that scale??
I think that the British equivalent for "rube" would be a yokel, or carrot cruncher.
Rube is reserved for someone who lives out in the boonies, not a city dweller.
I'm not sure that the US has a specific term that equates to chav, perhaps juvenile delinquent?
I now tend to say ''dark complexion'' if asked to discribe anyone
As I said earlier, it's not the term which is offensive but the high handedness implied by wilfully ignoring what someone wishes to call themselves.
That is a very good point. All this pussy-footing around pretending not to notice someone's skin colour is laughable.
Can I not like someone's skin colour and find it very sexy? It is as much a part of them as anything else. And I have met some people with beautiful skin colour and if most others don't have that, then it is exotic.
Some people want to see offence even when giving them a great compliment.
Dear god. I have visions of people really at pains to describe people for fear of using the out-of-fashion terminology
"Well madam, did you get a good look at the man who stole your handbag?"
"Yes I did, he was tall, wearing a red jacket and white cap"
"Anything else?"
"Yes but how do I....? He was, you know, he was b - b..."
"Yes?"
"You know <whispers> he had a dark complexion!
Sooner you than me!
Slope is a derogatory term, coined by G.I.s first in Korea, and later used in Viet-Nam.
Oriental should be okay, the Orient means the East I think.
Whats the point of walking on eggshells or making such a huge issue of it
As for oriental being abusive, never heard such rubbish in all my life, if anythng its a beautiful word ffs
I did not mean it like that
You quote me saying "call yourself what you want", and then ask me this?
If we're not allowed to be offended on the behalf of others then you shouldn't be able to dictate to others what is and is not offensive. You may not understand the history or the connotation, but if someone asks you not use a certain term around them then the decent thing to do would be to at least consider their point of view instead of digging in your heels like a petulant five year old. And them merely asking is not akin to being called a racist.
So if I referred to Pumping Iron as 'Oriental' (Can't think how it would come up in a conversation here) I might get some others telling me that I was being offensive and that I should not use that term any more. But if I ignored them and still referred to Pumping Iron using the term he wished, I would be labelled racist by others.
I have heard some people (Let's call them non-white just as a shorthand) who don't like being called Black as they are not black. Yet someone somewhere has decided for them yet again.
also, mixed race people - clearly not black, and often a very pale brown, still tend to treat themselves as "black", don't they? Why?
I like the sound of 'Oriental' too but it's been frowned upon for a while I think.
Its all those "black friends" that every poster here conveniently has.
If you were to call other SE Asian people Oriental "because Pumping Iron said it was okay" then that'd be offensive.
I've decided this for myself. If I objected I'd let the person I was speaking to know.
Hah, possibly true!
Because of the one-drop rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
We've all been lumped together so we may as well go with the flow.
I'd never even heard the term, till I found out that Clarkson had used it.
I will continue to use it, until someone informs me that it's wrong. If I know a person is Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc, I will use that. But in the absence of that detail, I see no issue with the more generic "oriental" - certainly not using "Caucasian Asian" as Kippeh referred to earlier.
I don't get that either. The mixed race guy I referred to earlier is actually lighter skin tone than me (I get my swarthiness from being of part Italian descent). Yet on many ethnic surveys he would probably describe himself as "black", which he's clearly not, and I describe myself as white, which I'm clearly not, skin tone wise.
Its stupid all this, but yes, never heard ref to brown people, if youre gonna differentiate then caucasian can be pink, red (if youre alex ferguson or simon hughes, andrew neil, al) or a bit yellow
Just stooopid
I dont give two hoots, if an idea is pathetic, why should I
Ironic thing is all the black people I know are so laid back and chilled and dont take offense easily...wonder who all this is for the benefit of...as I said, if youre not knowngly offensive and mean no harm, because youre not up to date with all the correct terms, then you arent..or racist obviously