It is not accurate to compare Alex Salmond to Mussolini, regardless of how much you disagree with his politics. That was already an obnoxious statement, made all the more so by tagging on the fantasy about Salmond swinging from a lampost.
Its not the first time I've noticed that level of obnoxiousness from the no side either, there seems to be a weird sense of entitlement among some of them which deludes them into thinking that publically fantasising about the murder of Scotland's democratically elected First Minister doesn't make them look like a complete weirdo.
What do you make them look like complete weirdos, I think we can take that as read!
What I know is that if it weren't for Scotland, there would be a majority Conservative Government at Westminster. Do you hear the English, Welsh or Irish whining about not getting the government we wanted? When we all agree to be part of something bigger, we accept the consequences.
Another point about democracy. Is it fair that MPs from Scottish Constituencies can vote on policies which don't affect their areas but impact on the rest of the UK, whilst English MPs can't have the same right to vote on Scottish matters?
Try reading the comments on the thoroughly biased 'Wings Over Scotland' website and you will see that and worse.
I've read plenty of comments over there, and never seen anything comparable to that. And btw, even if Wings Over Scotland was full to the brim with comments like that, it still wouldn't excuse it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
We'll see what the Yes side think of democracy on the day after the result.
As a yes voter I will happily accept a democratic decision made in Scotland. If it's no then its no, however I do think that Scotlands political side has been awoken and we won't accept being treated the way we have been for many years by westminster.
What I know is that if it weren't for Scotland, there would be a majority Conservative Government at Westminster. Do you hear the English, Welsh or Irish whining about not getting the government we wanted? When we all agree to be part of something bigger, we accept the consequences.
Another point about democracy. Is it fair that MPs from Scottish Constituencies can vote on policies which don't affect their areas but impact on the rest of the UK, whilst English MPs can't have the same right to vote on Scottish matters?
I suppose you would rather hang elected representatives from the nearest lampost?
What I know is that if it weren't for Scotland, there would be a majority Conservative Government at Westminster. Do you hear the English, Welsh or Irish whining about not getting the government we wanted? When we all agree to be part of something bigger, we accept the consequences.
Another point about democracy. Is it fair that MPs from Scottish Constituencies can vote on policies which don't affect their areas but impact on the rest of the UK, whilst English MPs can't have the same right to vote on Scottish matters?
Royal mail privatisation, was unanimously voted against by msp as was bedroom tax... yet still imposed up here... so no point crying about fairness..
As a yes voter I will happily accept a democratic decision made in Scotland. If it's no then its no, however I do think that Scotlands political side has been awoken and we won't accept being treated the way we have been for many years by westminster.
I think the English side is being awoken to the fact that the Barnett Formula needs to end and give the Scottish Parliament tax-raising powers so they can pay for what they want to spend. Also Scottish MPs at Westminster have to be stopped from voting on purely English matters.
Who do you think would hold the strongest cards? A separate Scotland with no shelter from the UK umbrella, or Westminster with 90+% of all UK resources?
Yes I did read that bit. And this is where its gets messy.
After Scottish independence, the UK Treasury will honour all UK debt . That means that in any independence negotiations, the Scottish government could say we are not going to be liable for any of the outstanding governments debts.
And the UK Government could say you are not getting any of the UK's assets, none of the gold or reserves, none of the military equipment or overseas assets - absolutely zilch. It could also veto Scotland's membership of the EU and Nato and it could erect border controls and impose punitive trade tariffs on a country that relies predominantly on the rest of the UK for its exports.
Salmond is our little tartan Mussolini, and like his master he is likely to wind up hanging upside down from a lamp-post, surrounding by a jeering mob of his previously most fervent followers.
Royal mail privatisation, was unanimously voted against by msp as was bedroom tax... yet still imposed up here... so no point crying about fairness..
In a democracy, decisions are made for everyone - whether we agree or not. The Scottish Government is free to dole out money if they so wish to allow social housing tenants stay in bigger properties than they need.
I think the English side is being awoken to the fact that the Barnett Formula needs to end and give the Scottish Parliament tax-raising powers so they can pay for what they want to spend. Also Scottish MPs at Westminster have to be stopped from voting on purely English matters.
Fine as long as we get all income tax, all captial gains tax, all VAT , all corporation tax, all Northsea oil reciepts etc. Then we can hand over our share of shared costs like defense etc. We would be swimming in it
It would be interesting to see these posters' views on people celebrating Thatcher's death.
You really don't understand the point being made. If Scotland becomes independent, and Salmond's promises turn out to be worthless, how will the Scots react? Of course they won't hang him, but he will become more unpopular than Mrs T ever was.
Fine as long as we get all income tax, all captial gains tax, all VAT , all corporation tax, all Northsea oil reciepts etc. Then we can hand over our share of shared costs like defense etc. We would be swimming in it
At the moment we rely on one central government full of Eton Elite to make economic decision for 4 countries. It doesn't work, it hasn't worked for a long time.
You can tell these lies but they are not all true.
Gordon Brown: Would have been part of a Scottish government, studied in Scotland, went to University of Edinburgh.
Danny Alexander: Would have been part of a Scottish government, studied in Scotland but went to University in Oxford.
Alistair Darling: Would have been part of a Scottish government, studied in Scotland, Alex Salmond SNP Leader, studied in Scotland, went to St. Andrews.
Nicola Sturgeon, SNP Deputy, studied in Scotland, went to Glasgow University.
So those from Scotland who have been in the UK government none of them are the Eton crowd, and one was the PM...
So let us look at the current government.
Cameron: Eton, Oxford
Clegg: Westminster College, Cambridge.
Osborne St. Pauls, Oxford
William Hague: Wath Upon Dearne GS, Oxford
Vince Cable: Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge
So a clear bias from the small sample to Oxford and Cambridge, but clearly all of them have had a good education from both sets. And not just Eton.
As for affordability, Scotland has balanced the books for the last 7 years, that is after deductions from UK for 'goods and services' including unelected House of Lords at a tarif of 300 per head per day... I can think of much better things to spend Scotlands money on.
Once all central costs are allocated out Scotland would be running at a loss.
Not much in it, and it can certainly survive quite well as an independent country (even though costs will also rise due to a rise in costs of localised businesses for the new country compared to shared costs across all of the UK, and of course there will be large setup costs for a series of new central bodies) but that is the real position.
As is the stated numbers from the Scottish Government were that you ran at a deficit last year of circa £8 million....
I think those any other similar options are the rUK side of the mutually assured destruction option - that equate to Salmond's welching on the debt.
DO I think they're theoretically possible, legal etc - then yes.
Do I think they would come to pass? No, I think neither side would push the button
DO I think they'll be slung about during the negotiations (assuming the hypothetical yes vote). Yes I do.
It's to Salmond's advantage to waive the welching stick right now as he's losing the vote anyway and needs to pretend he'll get CU. His opponents are not daft enough to start waving sticks back because they know that would trigger a backlash.
What other kind of reaction can you expect when the SNP start threatening the majority of the Union? If Scotland votes Yes, fine! But the consequences will be very unpleasant.
If it gets bad, the Scots can send Trident to Westminster - by air!
You really don't understand the point being made. If Scotland becomes independent, and Salmond's promises turn out to be worthless, how will the Scots react? Of course they won't hang him, but he will become more unpopular than Mrs T ever was.
Exactly. I think the only reason Salmond is making these wild promises is that he knows that the referendum is lost and that the only thing he can do is make the margin of defeat a bit less shameful. There is no way on earth they could be fulfilled, and I firmly believe that post-independence rioting and other forms of mass violence cannot be ruled out. Ireland ushered in its independence with a full-scale civil war.
I've read plenty of comments over there, and never seen anything comparable to that. And btw, even if Wings Over Scotland was full to the brim with comments like that, it still wouldn't excuse it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Then you have 'Wenger vision' goggles for the first, although I agree on the second.
(one of the comments below from WoS relating to Gordon Brown)
Gary C says:
21 August, 2014 at 3:35 pm
What an absolute c**t of a man. He honestly disgusts me .....
I think those any other similar options are the rUK side of the mutually assured destruction option - that equate to Salmond's welching on the debt.
DO I think they're theoretically possible, legal etc - then yes.
Do I think they would come to pass? No, I think neither side would push the button
DO I think they'll be slung about during the negotiations (assuming the hypothetical yes vote). Yes I do.
It's to Salmond's advantage to waive the welching stick right now as he's losing the vote anyway and needs to pretend he'll get CU. His opponents are not daft enough to start waving sticks back because they know that would trigger a backlash.
After the vote, both sides can pick up sticks
After the vote, whatever the outcome, Scotland will have lost a lot of the goodwill and genuine affection that the rest of the UK has for the country.
What other kind of reaction can you expect when the SNP start threatening the majority of the Union? If Scotland votes Yes, fine! But the consequences will be very unpleasant.
Comments
To be honest a lot of that sounds like a reasonable opening and closing stance for negotiations. I'd say hardball would be punitive so the likes of
1) Vetoing any EU admission until the debt is paid
2) Retaining existing Oil & Gas tax revenue until the debt is paid
3) Massive import duties on Scottish goods until... well you get the picture
What do you make them look like complete weirdos, I think we can take that as read!
What I know is that if it weren't for Scotland, there would be a majority Conservative Government at Westminster. Do you hear the English, Welsh or Irish whining about not getting the government we wanted? When we all agree to be part of something bigger, we accept the consequences.
Another point about democracy. Is it fair that MPs from Scottish Constituencies can vote on policies which don't affect their areas but impact on the rest of the UK, whilst English MPs can't have the same right to vote on Scottish matters?
I've read plenty of comments over there, and never seen anything comparable to that. And btw, even if Wings Over Scotland was full to the brim with comments like that, it still wouldn't excuse it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
As a yes voter I will happily accept a democratic decision made in Scotland. If it's no then its no, however I do think that Scotlands political side has been awoken and we won't accept being treated the way we have been for many years by westminster.
I suppose you would rather hang elected representatives from the nearest lampost?
I think the English side is being awoken to the fact that the Barnett Formula needs to end and give the Scottish Parliament tax-raising powers so they can pay for what they want to spend. Also Scottish MPs at Westminster have to be stopped from voting on purely English matters.
And the UK Government could say you are not getting any of the UK's assets, none of the gold or reserves, none of the military equipment or overseas assets - absolutely zilch. It could also veto Scotland's membership of the EU and Nato and it could erect border controls and impose punitive trade tariffs on a country that relies predominantly on the rest of the UK for its exports.
In a democracy, decisions are made for everyone - whether we agree or not. The Scottish Government is free to dole out money if they so wish to allow social housing tenants stay in bigger properties than they need.
Fine as long as we get all income tax, all captial gains tax, all VAT , all corporation tax, all Northsea oil reciepts etc. Then we can hand over our share of shared costs like defense etc. We would be swimming in it
You really don't understand the point being made. If Scotland becomes independent, and Salmond's promises turn out to be worthless, how will the Scots react? Of course they won't hang him, but he will become more unpopular than Mrs T ever was.
Swimming in fantasy land and debt more like!
Gordon Brown: Would have been part of a Scottish government, studied in Scotland, went to University of Edinburgh.
Danny Alexander: Would have been part of a Scottish government, studied in Scotland but went to University in Oxford.
Alistair Darling: Would have been part of a Scottish government, studied in Scotland, Alex Salmond SNP Leader, studied in Scotland, went to St. Andrews.
Nicola Sturgeon, SNP Deputy, studied in Scotland, went to Glasgow University.
So those from Scotland who have been in the UK government none of them are the Eton crowd, and one was the PM...
So let us look at the current government.
Cameron: Eton, Oxford
Clegg: Westminster College, Cambridge.
Osborne St. Pauls, Oxford
William Hague: Wath Upon Dearne GS, Oxford
Vince Cable: Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge
So a clear bias from the small sample to Oxford and Cambridge, but clearly all of them have had a good education from both sets. And not just Eton.
Once all central costs are allocated out Scotland would be running at a loss.
Not much in it, and it can certainly survive quite well as an independent country (even though costs will also rise due to a rise in costs of localised businesses for the new country compared to shared costs across all of the UK, and of course there will be large setup costs for a series of new central bodies) but that is the real position.
As is the stated numbers from the Scottish Government were that you ran at a deficit last year of circa £8 million....
I thought you wanted us to raise all our own taxes. Have you changed your mind?
What share of our taxes do you think we should get?
I think those any other similar options are the rUK side of the mutually assured destruction option - that equate to Salmond's welching on the debt.
DO I think they're theoretically possible, legal etc - then yes.
Do I think they would come to pass? No, I think neither side would push the button
DO I think they'll be slung about during the negotiations (assuming the hypothetical yes vote). Yes I do.
It's to Salmond's advantage to waive the welching stick right now as he's losing the vote anyway and needs to pretend he'll get CU. His opponents are not daft enough to start waving sticks back because they know that would trigger a backlash.
After the vote, both sides can pick up sticks
Exactly. I think the only reason Salmond is making these wild promises is that he knows that the referendum is lost and that the only thing he can do is make the margin of defeat a bit less shameful. There is no way on earth they could be fulfilled, and I firmly believe that post-independence rioting and other forms of mass violence cannot be ruled out. Ireland ushered in its independence with a full-scale civil war.
(one of the comments below from WoS relating to Gordon Brown)
Gary C says:
21 August, 2014 at 3:35 pm
What an absolute c**t of a man. He honestly disgusts me .....
After the vote, whatever the outcome, Scotland will have lost a lot of the goodwill and genuine affection that the rest of the UK has for the country.
Threatening what?