The amount of people using cash only is shrinking year on year as more and more people just use a card, surely you working for Sainsbury's must have noticed this? I shop when in the UK several times a week and to be honest most till transactions are completed using a card and not cash, certainly in the larger supermarkets. As for security is there any evidence showing NFC being any less secure that a typical card transaction? I'd be interested in seeing any credible links.
I don't work on checkouts, but you are right less people are using cash, but a card is no good if you go into a shop that don''t take them.
Supermarkets will take anything as long as they get money, simple as that, i am shocked that they don't take Euro, maybe they do in places like London.
A card that don't need a pin to be entered is bound to be less secure, it makes sense, you lose a NFC card and someone can use it, at least with chip and pin it will be more difficult.
You don't have to have bloody links, you just need to see it from a thief point of view.
A card that don't need a pin to be entered is bound to be less secure, it makes sense, you lose a NFC card and someone can use it, at least with chip and pin it will be more difficult.
You don't have to have bloody links, you just need to see it from a thief point of view.
Define less secure.
Is it less secure if the bank is legally bound to cover any fraudulent transactions?
And how many years have that taken? Oyster been around for a while and it can only do one thing and that is be used for London Transport.
But it means that most Londoners are entirely familiar with how NFC cards work and won't be frustrated trying to 'wave' it near the reader. Not only that, the Oyster card readers on buses already let you use a wireless debit card (or phone) instead of a dedicated Oyster card and the tube/DLR will in the next 6 months. That's a LOT of readers.
Yes, the rest of the country is different from London (and its frustrating for me, how many e.g. pubs and bars outside the capital don't even take regular chip and pin plastic) but stuff like this is made for urban living. The village store is unlikely to have a queue of people grabbing lunch in a hurry.
TFL will have recorded around a million uses of contactless debit cards (not Oyster cards) for travel since they launched support in December. Also talks a little about some of the issues around using phones for this.
I don't work on checkouts, but you are right less people are using cash, but a card is no good if you go into a shop that don''t take them.
Supermarkets will take anything as long as they get money, simple as that, i am shocked that they don't take Euro, maybe they do in places like London.
A card that don't need a pin to be entered is bound to be less secure, it makes sense, you lose a NFC card and someone can use it, at least with chip and pin it will be more difficult.
You don't have to have bloody links, you just need to see it from a thief point of view.
Even my little local village store, which is about ten metres by eight metres in size takes cards, I honestly don't know a shop that doesn't take cards. I have a pin on my phone so NFC is secure enough, if I lost my phone by the time it got hacked I'd have blocked any accounts linked to it.
I'd still like to see some evidence rather than rely on the rants in your diatribes to be honest.
It can be if you allow the device to use it with no pin on a locked screen which is not very secure and what people here seem to be whining about.....
Now, with chip and pin you need to wait until the person activates the card reader, then pop card in, a few secs for it to register and contact bank, then enter pin and finally having to wait on the authorisation from the bank.
Contactless from when ive used it takes from a tap to done in less than 3 seconds. So even with the added on time for unlocking the phone etc, its still quicker.
Not as quick as a card but more secure. Its simply an alternative and one i dont quite understand what people's issue is with it....
I understood google wallet to be a preload card (I.e you have to pay money onto it and it isn't coming straight out of your bank account). If that is the case, then security isn't an issue as the amount stored on it will be limited and the bank not liable for any loss.
With having to start the app, it is starting to sound like the Starbucks app i use, which can just be scanned in (about) 3 seconds.
As for how long each transaction takes, if we are arguing about the difference between 3 seconds and 20 seconds, that amount of time is immaterial. .
Even my little local village store, which is about ten metres by eight metres in size takes cards, I honestly don't know a shop that doesn't take cards. I have a pin on my phone so NFC is secure enough, if I lost my phone by the time it got hacked I'd have blocked any accounts linked to it.
I'd still like to see some evidence rather than rely on the rants in your diatribes to be honest.
Contactless payment is secure (otherwise the banks wouldn't allow it as they under right any loss). That is why the limit is low.
NFC payments shouldn't require a pin (they don't on a card) so that isn't an issue. My only point in this debate is that contactless payment on phone provides no advantage over a normal payment card.
I understood google wallet to be a preload card (I.e you have to pay money onto it and it isn't coming straight out of your bank account). If that is the case, then security isn't an issue as the amount stored on it will be limited and the bank not liable for any loss.
With having to start the app, it is starting to sound like the Starbucks app i use, which can just be scanned in (about) 3 seconds.
As for how long each transaction takes, if we are arguing about the difference between 3 seconds and 20 seconds, that amount of time is immaterial. .
Contactless payment is secure (otherwise the banks wouldn't allow it as they under right any loss). That is why the limit is low.
NFC payments shouldn't require a pin (they don't on a card) so that isn't an issue. My only point in this debate is that contactless payment on phone provides no advantage over a normal payment card.
Speed is the only advantage at the moment I agree. As for security, looking on Google it seems a safe enough system. To be honest I really don't care one way or another, its just another option open to the public. My lad uses the system and I will get around to using it but then I like new 'toys'.
Speed is the only advantage at the moment I agree. As for security, looking on Google it seems a safe enough system. To be honest I really don't care one way or another, its just another option open to the public. My lad uses the system and I will get around to using it but then I like new 'toys'.
I've actually just been reading about google wallet and it doesn't appear to be prepaid. It seems to be able to store a number of cards which you then select from.
Reading the comments on the app, it seems to currently be phone and carrier specific.
But it means that most Londoners are entirely familiar with how NFC cards work and won't be frustrated trying to 'wave' it near the reader. Not only that, the Oyster card readers on buses already let you use a wireless debit card (or phone) instead of a dedicated Oyster card and the tube/DLR will in the next 6 months. That's a LOT of readers.
You mean some , maybe the majority, but not all, not every Londoner have a oyster card,, some people still drive, no idea how but they do.
Yes, the rest of the country is different from London (and its frustrating for me, how many e.g. pubs and bars outside the capital don't even take regular chip and pin plastic) but stuff like this is made for urban living. The village store is unlikely to have a queue of people grabbing lunch in a hurry.
Oh you poor hard done by. Surly cash is fast enough? Most pubs around here do have chip and pin, well the larger ones anyway. Depends what village and what is around that village.
TFL will have recorded around a million uses of contactless debit cards (not Oyster cards) for travel since they launched support in December. Also talks a little about some of the issues around using phones for this.
But then there is a lot of people that uses London transport and maybe NFc cards are given out more in London.
You do that, whilst i will keep getting my credit card cash back, with faster transactions
Cash is fast enough. What is it with people that they are in so much of a hurry these days?
I prefer the laid back approach, I been to London a few times and I hate it, everyone seems to be in so much of a hurry, even on the escalators they run up them as if the end of the world is coming. Getting as bad here, we used to be so laid back here, now every one is rush, rush, rush.
Even my little local village store, which is about ten metres by eight metres in size takes cards, I honestly don't know a shop that doesn't take cards.
I know of two that don't take cards, and I know a butchers who don't take chip and pin, but will still take cards, debit only. the shop I go in to get my bread rolls for work don't take cards, the chippy across the road from me, don't take cards, the chippy I use a couple of streets away they don't take cards.
Our buses don't take cards, only two taxi companies will take cards and that is only on a pre-booked journey. the local pub down the road, no cards. A antique shop again , no cards.
Yes, our local shop takes cards, but you got to spend a fiver, even the cafe in our Hospital will take cards, but agin, you need to spend a fiver.
everyone takes cash, so it is less hassle.
I have a pin on my phone so NFC is secure enough, if I lost my phone by the time it got hacked I'd have blocked any accounts linked to it.
I'd still like to see some evidence rather than rely on the rants in your diatribes to be honest.
so you have a pin on your phone, so you got to unlock your phone to use NFC, so what is the point?
As I said, you lose your card and don't realise, how easy will it be for someone to pick it up and spend what ever amount they can spend?
It is all very well saying it will be paid back, but it takes ages, believe me I know, i had money taken from my account and it took 3 months to get it back. some people live from one week to the next and if they lost money they would struggle.
Question. How do you get your money in the first place?
By using a card in a machine by any chance?
Yep, but it is a normal card, just a plain simple chip and pin card. i get my cash from the local Co-op as it is free and then the card stays here at home most of the time.
i have not said I never use my card, I have done if i need to, I just prefer cash.
I got nothing against NFC, i just don't want it forced onto me, simple as that really.
I've actually just been reading about google wallet and it doesn't appear to be prepaid. It seems to be able to store a number of cards which you then select from.
Reading the comments on the app, it seems to currently be phone and carrier specific.
i thought it was only available in the states anyway.
But it means that most Londoners are entirely familiar with how NFC cards work and won't be frustrated trying to 'wave' it near the reader. Not only that, the Oyster card readers on buses already let you use a wireless debit card (or phone) instead of a dedicated Oyster card and the tube/DLR will in the next 6 months. That's a LOT of readers.
You mean some , maybe the majority, but not all, not every Londoner have a oyster card,, some people still drive, no idea how but they do.
I drive most places, however, the fact that they accept contactless cards on London buses is great for me (and probably many occasional users of the bus).
I have an Oyster card but I rarely get the bus, and so I don't keep a balance on the card as it goes months between uses.
However, when I want to put some money on it, usually I have to do the following:
- Withdraw some cash, as the the newsagent charges 75p(!!!) for a card transaction.
- Pop into the newsagents, queue, top up and end up with a load of coins rolling around in my wallet
- Hang around for the next bus
or:
- Board the bus, beep my debit card on the ticket machine and that's it.
The concept that cash is somehow 'fast' is not really true. Someone, somewhere has to spend time counting and transporting the cash. That's many man hours spent shifting around bits of paper and lumps of metal.
Even in a shop at the end of the day, they've also got to spend time making their till balance, float it, cash up etc. For people that paid by card, press few buttons to bank it, job done.
When I worked in a shop it was a pain, as you had to count everything and it took up so much time.
Plus also with cash people have the tendency to want to offload their coinage - the amount of times I had people at the till trying to do 'swapsies', you give me this, I give you a load of coins, round it to the nearest five so I don't have a pennies etc. So retrograde.
Its not just London, in Wales I think pension bus passes are now NFC and all the Stagecoach buses take them, all passports are NFC now too, the chip holds personal data (about time too).
When I'm back in the UK I'm taking a serious look at this and will start to use the system, its growing technology and won't be going away and you don't have to use it.
Yep, but it is a normal card, just a plain simple chip and pin card. i get my cash from the local Co-op as it is free and then the card stays here at home most of the time.
i have not said I never use my card, I have done if i need to, I just prefer cash.
I got nothing against NFC, i just don't want it forced onto me, simple as that really.
Right so basically you do double the work? How pointless!!
You do have something against it. Like you have things against anything new. You are well known for this. You are not having NFC forced on you. You have a choice, use it or dont. Stop whining about it.....
Comments
I don't work on checkouts, but you are right less people are using cash, but a card is no good if you go into a shop that don''t take them.
Supermarkets will take anything as long as they get money, simple as that, i am shocked that they don't take Euro, maybe they do in places like London.
A card that don't need a pin to be entered is bound to be less secure, it makes sense, you lose a NFC card and someone can use it, at least with chip and pin it will be more difficult.
You don't have to have bloody links, you just need to see it from a thief point of view.
only because it is in law.
i doubt there is anything in law to give a refund if someone had their money taken because someone used the NFC card.
Define less secure.
Is it less secure if the bank is legally bound to cover any fraudulent transactions?
But is it legally bound? if it is and too many people claim then something will be done about it, banks will not lose money if they can help it.
oh well, i will stay with my cash, using a card for something that is a couple of quid is not worth the bother.
But it means that most Londoners are entirely familiar with how NFC cards work and won't be frustrated trying to 'wave' it near the reader. Not only that, the Oyster card readers on buses already let you use a wireless debit card (or phone) instead of a dedicated Oyster card and the tube/DLR will in the next 6 months. That's a LOT of readers.
Yes, the rest of the country is different from London (and its frustrating for me, how many e.g. pubs and bars outside the capital don't even take regular chip and pin plastic) but stuff like this is made for urban living. The village store is unlikely to have a queue of people grabbing lunch in a hurry.
edit:
According to this article
http://nfctimes.com/news/transport-london-nears-million-mark-open-loop-payment-remains-cool-nfc
TFL will have recorded around a million uses of contactless debit cards (not Oyster cards) for travel since they launched support in December. Also talks a little about some of the issues around using phones for this.
You do that, whilst i will keep getting my credit card cash back, with faster transactions
Even my little local village store, which is about ten metres by eight metres in size takes cards, I honestly don't know a shop that doesn't take cards. I have a pin on my phone so NFC is secure enough, if I lost my phone by the time it got hacked I'd have blocked any accounts linked to it.
I'd still like to see some evidence rather than rely on the rants in your diatribes to be honest.
Question. How do you get your money in the first place?
By using a card in a machine by any chance?
I understood google wallet to be a preload card (I.e you have to pay money onto it and it isn't coming straight out of your bank account). If that is the case, then security isn't an issue as the amount stored on it will be limited and the bank not liable for any loss.
With having to start the app, it is starting to sound like the Starbucks app i use, which can just be scanned in (about) 3 seconds.
As for how long each transaction takes, if we are arguing about the difference between 3 seconds and 20 seconds, that amount of time is immaterial. .
Contactless payment is secure (otherwise the banks wouldn't allow it as they under right any loss). That is why the limit is low.
NFC payments shouldn't require a pin (they don't on a card) so that isn't an issue. My only point in this debate is that contactless payment on phone provides no advantage over a normal payment card.
Oh, and if you travel in London on public transport and use oyster don't wave the wrong wallet at the oyster reader...:eek:
Speed is the only advantage at the moment I agree. As for security, looking on Google it seems a safe enough system. To be honest I really don't care one way or another, its just another option open to the public. My lad uses the system and I will get around to using it but then I like new 'toys'.
NFC!
I've actually just been reading about google wallet and it doesn't appear to be prepaid. It seems to be able to store a number of cards which you then select from.
Reading the comments on the app, it seems to currently be phone and carrier specific.
I used contactless payment on a coke vending machine yesterday.
You mean some , maybe the majority, but not all, not every Londoner have a oyster card,, some people still drive, no idea how but they do.
Oh you poor hard done by. Surly cash is fast enough? Most pubs around here do have chip and pin, well the larger ones anyway. Depends what village and what is around that village.
But then there is a lot of people that uses London transport and maybe NFc cards are given out more in London.
Cash is fast enough. What is it with people that they are in so much of a hurry these days?
I prefer the laid back approach, I been to London a few times and I hate it, everyone seems to be in so much of a hurry, even on the escalators they run up them as if the end of the world is coming. Getting as bad here, we used to be so laid back here, now every one is rush, rush, rush.
I know of two that don't take cards, and I know a butchers who don't take chip and pin, but will still take cards, debit only. the shop I go in to get my bread rolls for work don't take cards, the chippy across the road from me, don't take cards, the chippy I use a couple of streets away they don't take cards.
Our buses don't take cards, only two taxi companies will take cards and that is only on a pre-booked journey. the local pub down the road, no cards. A antique shop again , no cards.
Yes, our local shop takes cards, but you got to spend a fiver, even the cafe in our Hospital will take cards, but agin, you need to spend a fiver.
everyone takes cash, so it is less hassle.
so you have a pin on your phone, so you got to unlock your phone to use NFC, so what is the point?
As I said, you lose your card and don't realise, how easy will it be for someone to pick it up and spend what ever amount they can spend?
It is all very well saying it will be paid back, but it takes ages, believe me I know, i had money taken from my account and it took 3 months to get it back. some people live from one week to the next and if they lost money they would struggle.
Yep, but it is a normal card, just a plain simple chip and pin card. i get my cash from the local Co-op as it is free and then the card stays here at home most of the time.
i have not said I never use my card, I have done if i need to, I just prefer cash.
I got nothing against NFC, i just don't want it forced onto me, simple as that really.
i thought it was only available in the states anyway.
I think it is at the moment, although some have said to have 'hacked it' to work.
Which does beg the question of how the banks would view paying using their accounts through an unauthorised app, but I'll leave that for now.
I have an Oyster card but I rarely get the bus, and so I don't keep a balance on the card as it goes months between uses.
However, when I want to put some money on it, usually I have to do the following:
- Withdraw some cash, as the the newsagent charges 75p(!!!) for a card transaction.
- Pop into the newsagents, queue, top up and end up with a load of coins rolling around in my wallet
- Hang around for the next bus
or:
- Board the bus, beep my debit card on the ticket machine and that's it.
The concept that cash is somehow 'fast' is not really true. Someone, somewhere has to spend time counting and transporting the cash. That's many man hours spent shifting around bits of paper and lumps of metal.
Even in a shop at the end of the day, they've also got to spend time making their till balance, float it, cash up etc. For people that paid by card, press few buttons to bank it, job done.
When I worked in a shop it was a pain, as you had to count everything and it took up so much time.
Plus also with cash people have the tendency to want to offload their coinage - the amount of times I had people at the till trying to do 'swapsies', you give me this, I give you a load of coins, round it to the nearest five so I don't have a pennies etc. So retrograde.
When I'm back in the UK I'm taking a serious look at this and will start to use the system, its growing technology and won't be going away and you don't have to use it.
Right so basically you do double the work? How pointless!!
You do have something against it. Like you have things against anything new. You are well known for this. You are not having NFC forced on you. You have a choice, use it or dont. Stop whining about it.....
They have no view on it. It's the same system used as paying for something online or on a shop.
Do you preload the wallet or is the payment taken directly from your bank card?
Taken right from the card.
I see, I don't know either.
Then I'm willing to bet that the bank would have no obligation to honour any fraud that occurred using your phone.
Would be an interesting question to ask the bank.