That sim charges 0.19 eur a minute to local landlines and you've got all the hassle of topping the sim up etc. Any UK sim will charge 24p a minute- that's 0.29 eur with much less hassle- are you sure it is worth it?
A toggle mobile SIM is only 3p per minute to Ireland or the UK (whilst in Ireland). It's 15p per MB though, so not great for data.
I would go for the Three payg 321 SIM, 1p per MB would allow plenty of use (e.g. 50p per day for 50MB). Calls to the UK are only 3p per minute.
But Cameron and his loony anti-EU cronies want to take the UK out of the EU so what they agree may not apply even if it's in the best interests of mobile phone consumers.
Happily Scotland has a choice and can make a decision in 2014 that allows it's citizens to benefit from EU legislation without the anti-immigration nonsense that the Cameron UK government and the Daily Mail are obsessed with.
He could do this novel thing and make a British rule/law meaning that mobile companies couldn't charge roaming fees. You don't need the EU for this.
He could do this novel thing and make a British rule/law meaning that mobile companies couldn't charge roaming fees. You don't need the EU for this.
The big problem is that once the rules change, operators will still want users paying the same average amount per month. Average Revenue Per User (ARPU) is king and, sadly, this will almost certainly mean we'll see some changes to ordinary tariffs.
This might not be an increase in line rental, as that would be too obvious - but if you look at Vodafone's advertising over the last year, it has often said 'UK data' when talking about bundles.
Sure, you can argue that Vodafone is trying to be transparent and open.. but I expect we may well find that bundled minutes/texts/data may well become UK-only.
So, while you'll pay no extra for roaming, I bet you'll find that you might suddenly have to start paying the usual per minute/per text/per MB charge that is charged in the UK out of bundle.
And might we find bundles in the UK become more generous, to compensate for an increase in the out-of-bundle charges?
I am pretty sure all the big operators are busy sitting down together (sorry, did I say that - that would mean there's a cartel. No, scratch that.. it was a typo!) to see how they can protect their revenues. Imagine how much a network like Vodafone stands to lose on business customers paying for data right now (the ones that will no doubt gladly pay when getting a huge bill and not appear on Watchdog!).
A toggle mobile SIM is only 3p per minute to Ireland or the UK (whilst in Ireland). It's 15p per MB though, so not great for data.
I would go for the Three payg 321 SIM, 1p per MB would allow plenty of use (e.g. 50p per day for 50MB). Calls to the UK are only 3p per minute.
No, a toggle Mobile SIM is only 3P a minute to the UK when in a Toggle country. It is 9P a minute to Ireland or other Toggle countries whether or not it's in the actual country or in the UK.
The data is too expensive and consequently the Three PAYG SIM is the only deal in town. However, it is NOT 1p a minute while abroad -that only applies while within the UK. In order to benefit fully from Feel At Home, the roamer must apply credit to the SIM and then buy a bundle -the data (calls and SMS) will then be "free" as at home. Without a bundle, I believe the charge is 20p per MB for roamed data.
Calls to the UK are NOT 3p a minute either…you must buy a bundle first and then you may use bundled minutes.
No, a toggle Mobile SIM is only 3P a minute to the UK when in a Toggle country. It is 9P a minute to Ireland or other Toggle countries whether or not it's in the actual country or in the UK.
The data is too expensive and consequently the Three PAYG SIM is the only deal in town. However, it is NOT 1p a minute while abroad -that only applies while within the UK. In order to benefit fully from Feel At Home, the roamer must apply credit to the SIM and then buy a bundle -the data (calls and SMS) will then be "free" as at home. Without a bundle, I believe the charge is 20p per MB for roamed data.
Calls to the UK are NOT 3p a minute either…you must buy a bundle first and then you may use bundled minutes.
The 3p quoted above is to landlines and is correct for numbers in both the UK and Ireland. Mobiles are different (as you state, 3p UK & 9p Ireland).
I stand corrected regarding three payg, I had not realised how restricted feel at home is.
He could do this novel thing and make a British rule/law meaning that mobile companies couldn't charge roaming fees. You don't need the EU for this.
The whole point of the EC (NOT EU) being involved here is that they can control the wholesale costs between networks in different countries.
No country can do that on its own.
Then, without making this thread more political than it needs to be, you must consider that there would be pressure on the government to get rid of specific rules and regulations because of concerns from big business. This would be one such area.
The UK networks have made it clear in the past that they don't like these rules.
They didn't like changes in mobile termination costs within the country either, in fact they don't really like being forced to charge less for anything anywhere.
They didn't like changes in mobile termination costs within the country either, in fact they don't really like being forced to charge less for anything anywhere.
I helped BT and Three (and others) campaign to get rid of these charges, culminating in a nice trip to the BT Tower to celebrate.
Like Three dropping roaming fees early, Three also took the plunge and launched The One Plan with 2,000 any-network minutes that, at the time, seemed like quite a risk given the charges hadn't been lowered at that point.
As we can see time after time, if Three does something radical to offer the consumer more, the other networks just sit back and laugh. They don't make much attempt, if at all, to compete as they don't perceive Three as a serious player.
Of course, when one network seeks to up the charge on something - they all seem to follow as quickly as petrol stations put up their prices.
As we can see time after time, if Three does something radical to offer the consumer more, the other networks just sit back and laugh. They don't make much attempt, if at all, to compete as they don't perceive Three as a serious player.
The other networks are going to HAVE to take Three more seriously and rather soon! My experience is that the Three network has been vastly improved in the last few months - they have both filled in some coverage holes AND are now the best network for fast data (and this is without free 4G yet!)
The two recent Three innovations that no-one else is following are the 123 PAYG tariff and "Three like home" roaming to some countries.
As we can see time after time, if Three does something radical to offer the consumer more, the other networks just sit back and laugh. They don't make much attempt, if at all, to compete as they don't perceive Three as a serious player.
Of course, when one network seeks to up the charge on something - they all seem to follow as quickly as petrol stations put up their prices.
Ah, you're quite right, I believed it was 9p to non-UK landlines too. Nice.
Three PAYG has its rules, but once you follow them, its a good deal. it's not restrictive, it merely safeguards your credit.
The other advantage of Three is that you are no longer obliged to roam only with Three IRL (or other Three network elsewhere).
You're right, that is a fairly big improvement. I'm on a contract with three so I find it works really well for me. The only slightly disappointing thing was being unable to use RDP due to the data restrictions (throttling) whilst in Italy. Though maybe they have changed that now as others seem to be streaming.
All in all, three is far better than I ever expected. They really have done well recently. I hope they include the rest of the EU in feel at home soon.
You're right, that is a fairly big improvement. I'm on a contract with three so I find it works really well for me. The only slightly disappointing thing was being unable to use RDP due to the data restrictions (throttling) whilst in Italy. Though maybe they have changed that now as others seem to be streaming.
All in all, three is far better than I ever expected. They really have done well recently. I hope they include the rest of the EU in feel at home soon.
A lot of the early disappointments when they reintroduced Three Like Home as Feel At Home at the end of August seem to have been rectified. I had occasion to roam on Three IRL and Three ITA almost immediately and data was very slow. In particular, it was weird that data was almost unusable if you selected Three Ireland but not O2 Ireland, where it was more than acceptable. These days, as I am frequently in Dublin, I can see that it is considerably improved.
Nevertheless, there remains a massive battery drain on iPhone when roaming in this manner (which I have yet to get to the bottom of).
Can someone explain why (in principle) there needs to be data roaming charges at all ? I know that when roaming you normally retain your home network UK IP address, so you're connecting via a VPN. However, surely all that's needed is a 'local' connection to the internet, so is the present method simply there solely for revenue generation, and no technical requirement ?
There's no technical need really, well there's the sunk cost of the initial infrastructure required for roaming - interconnecting GSM/UMTS/3GPP networks isn't quite as simple as hooking up to any old WiFi hotspot/generic IPv4 service.
Can anyone explain how UK operators can get away with upwards of 25p a minute for a text sent from a UK mobile to a European mobile from within the UK, when it's 8p on roaming?
I'm massively worried that the UK will leave the EU. None of the positive aspects get any coverage amid the hysteria.
Yeah the international costs from the UK are a bit silly.
Same goes for EE's international roaming tariffs. Unlimited free international calls from any covered country to any other covered country while you're abroad, but charged if you're in the UK.
This plans will require agreement from all 28 EU member states and will need to be passed through the EU parliament before May 2014. On 22 May 2014, we'll all be voting for a new EU parliament.
But what will this all mean for the mobile phone users across the EU ? Could we see phone mergers and offers of pan-EU mobile phone contracts ? What if you were to work in another part of the EU, no need to arrange a SIM in the country you visit. Nor for those visiting the UK.
About time too. There is no technical reason why roaming should cost so much money, and to be honest, no reason why international calls should cost so much money anyway.
O2 have already made in-roads with roaming - when I was out in Belgium my charges were:
Free to recieve text messages
7p to send text messages
50p to make or receive calls (50p connection, free for 60 minutes)
however - data is the big problem.
£1.99 per 15Mb of data.
Quite frankly that is ridiculous. There isn't a huge technical issue when getting phones to work on foreign networks so why has there historically been a huge cost involved?
It's not even historical. The networks all decided it was a cash cow some time after roaming was introduced in the early 90s. And when data came along...
There was a time when I recall someone roaming merely paid the standard tariff of the network you roamed on to.
Admittedly this could cause confusion, without easy access to the rates, but it was still almost always cheaper than the simplified (and massively inflated) rates the networks introduced when telling users what they'd pay by setting roaming tariffs.
There was a time when I recall someone roaming merely paid the standard tariff of the network you roamed on to.
Admittedly this could cause confusion, without easy access to the rates, but it was still almost always cheaper than the simplified (and massively inflated) rates the networks introduced when telling users what they'd pay by setting roaming tariffs.
It was just the wholesale cost plus a reasonable markup which often meant the calls were cheaper than the roaming networks own domestic prices. It meant there were massive differences depending on what network you selected so you did need to know which network was best. Then it was all 'simplified' i.e find the most expensive one and charge that for every network.
In principle, it would seem quite reasonable to charge up to double for anything whilst roaming (because the revenue should be shared between your network and the network providing you with service).
If the networks had just done that I don't think there would have been too much argument.
In practice, roaming charges have been totally unjustifiable and in many cases continue to be so.
A few years ago I was working in India and had a contract phone with Orange. I recall paying something like £2 per minute to make a call and £1 per minute to receive in a country where local tariffs were much cheaper than in the UK. At that time, I think Orange were charging me about 20p per minute out of bundle. I'm pretty sure they weren't giving the extra £1.80 all to the Indian network - rather just coining it in at my expense.
At least within the EU, roaming calls are capped at a reasonable level. Data roaming charges continue to be highway robbery.
What we really need is a network to take the lead with pan-European bundles and make legislation unnecessary.
It was just the wholesale cost plus a reasonable markup which often meant the calls were cheaper than the roaming networks own domestic prices. It meant there were massive differences depending on what network you selected so you did need to know which network was best. Then it was all 'simplified' i.e find the most expensive one and charge that for every network.
Find the most expensive one, then round up a bit more, you mean!
It's a real shame there wasn't tough regulation back then, to stop the networks being able to do whatever they wanted and act in a true cartel fashion. Even the likes of Orange and One2One, both networks that shook things up when they launched, soon realised it was easier to just play the game.
Three is one of the only networks I can think of that hasn't (although it did axe 3LikeHome for some odd reason), along with a few MVNOs.
I have come late to this thread but it seems to me that most of the posts seem to suggest that the move to scrap roaming charges is based on politics and pressure from consumers.
I've seen an argument that the pressure is really an economic one. With free call apps like Viber, Skype, Facetime etc, users are waiting until they are in a free WiFi zone and making calls home and to businesses so getting them without charge. So the providers are losing money, raising the pressure to remove the roaming charges.
I've thought for some time that it was crazy that operators (and handset manufacturers) regularly advised people to turn off roaming to save money.
What industry would actively seek to tell people to NOT do something, rather than coming up with reasonable fees to encourage usage. We've had roaming since December 1991 in the UK, but as time has gone on - more people were turning roaming off!
My theory is that for some time, the big operators (like Vodafone) were doing exceptionally well from business customers that happily paid the high fees, especially for data. As long as they paid, or bought bundles for silly money, who cared about anyone else? Chuck em some pathetic allowance of a few MB per day and they'll be fine - and if they use more, bill em hundreds or thousands - and just waive or adjust the bills for anyone that dares moan and doesn't just pay up.
But as time has gone on, especially with the negative publicity and horror stories in the media, I guess that revenue is shrinking - and more businesses are savvy enough to use Wi-Fi and other services.
I guess the operators only have themselves to blame, for not seeing that they couldn't fleece people forever. And I expect the EC has played a part in this, as we can still see huge roaming charges outside the EU.
Comments
A toggle mobile SIM is only 3p per minute to Ireland or the UK (whilst in Ireland). It's 15p per MB though, so not great for data.
I would go for the Three payg 321 SIM, 1p per MB would allow plenty of use (e.g. 50p per day for 50MB). Calls to the UK are only 3p per minute.
He could do this novel thing and make a British rule/law meaning that mobile companies couldn't charge roaming fees. You don't need the EU for this.
The big problem is that once the rules change, operators will still want users paying the same average amount per month. Average Revenue Per User (ARPU) is king and, sadly, this will almost certainly mean we'll see some changes to ordinary tariffs.
This might not be an increase in line rental, as that would be too obvious - but if you look at Vodafone's advertising over the last year, it has often said 'UK data' when talking about bundles.
Sure, you can argue that Vodafone is trying to be transparent and open.. but I expect we may well find that bundled minutes/texts/data may well become UK-only.
So, while you'll pay no extra for roaming, I bet you'll find that you might suddenly have to start paying the usual per minute/per text/per MB charge that is charged in the UK out of bundle.
And might we find bundles in the UK become more generous, to compensate for an increase in the out-of-bundle charges?
I am pretty sure all the big operators are busy sitting down together (sorry, did I say that - that would mean there's a cartel. No, scratch that.. it was a typo!) to see how they can protect their revenues. Imagine how much a network like Vodafone stands to lose on business customers paying for data right now (the ones that will no doubt gladly pay when getting a huge bill and not appear on Watchdog!).
Then I repeat, all you need is a Three UK PAYG SIM with a data bundle on it.
No, a toggle Mobile SIM is only 3P a minute to the UK when in a Toggle country. It is 9P a minute to Ireland or other Toggle countries whether or not it's in the actual country or in the UK.
The data is too expensive and consequently the Three PAYG SIM is the only deal in town. However, it is NOT 1p a minute while abroad -that only applies while within the UK. In order to benefit fully from Feel At Home, the roamer must apply credit to the SIM and then buy a bundle -the data (calls and SMS) will then be "free" as at home. Without a bundle, I believe the charge is 20p per MB for roamed data.
Calls to the UK are NOT 3p a minute either…you must buy a bundle first and then you may use bundled minutes.
I stand corrected regarding three payg, I had not realised how restricted feel at home is.
The whole point of the EC (NOT EU) being involved here is that they can control the wholesale costs between networks in different countries.
No country can do that on its own.
Then, without making this thread more political than it needs to be, you must consider that there would be pressure on the government to get rid of specific rules and regulations because of concerns from big business. This would be one such area.
The UK networks have made it clear in the past that they don't like these rules.
I helped BT and Three (and others) campaign to get rid of these charges, culminating in a nice trip to the BT Tower to celebrate.
Like Three dropping roaming fees early, Three also took the plunge and launched The One Plan with 2,000 any-network minutes that, at the time, seemed like quite a risk given the charges hadn't been lowered at that point.
As we can see time after time, if Three does something radical to offer the consumer more, the other networks just sit back and laugh. They don't make much attempt, if at all, to compete as they don't perceive Three as a serious player.
Of course, when one network seeks to up the charge on something - they all seem to follow as quickly as petrol stations put up their prices.
The two recent Three innovations that no-one else is following are the 123 PAYG tariff and "Three like home" roaming to some countries.
Hah, good point.
Ah, you're quite right, I believed it was 9p to non-UK landlines too. Nice.
Three PAYG has its rules, but once you follow them, its a good deal. it's not restrictive, it merely safeguards your credit.
The other advantage of Three is that you are no longer obliged to roam only with Three IRL (or other Three network elsewhere).
You're right, that is a fairly big improvement. I'm on a contract with three so I find it works really well for me. The only slightly disappointing thing was being unable to use RDP due to the data restrictions (throttling) whilst in Italy. Though maybe they have changed that now as others seem to be streaming.
All in all, three is far better than I ever expected. They really have done well recently. I hope they include the rest of the EU in feel at home soon.
A lot of the early disappointments when they reintroduced Three Like Home as Feel At Home at the end of August seem to have been rectified. I had occasion to roam on Three IRL and Three ITA almost immediately and data was very slow. In particular, it was weird that data was almost unusable if you selected Three Ireland but not O2 Ireland, where it was more than acceptable. These days, as I am frequently in Dublin, I can see that it is considerably improved.
Nevertheless, there remains a massive battery drain on iPhone when roaming in this manner (which I have yet to get to the bottom of).
I'm massively worried that the UK will leave the EU. None of the positive aspects get any coverage amid the hysteria.
Yeah the international costs from the UK are a bit silly.
Same goes for EE's international roaming tariffs. Unlimited free international calls from any covered country to any other covered country while you're abroad, but charged if you're in the UK.
About time too. There is no technical reason why roaming should cost so much money, and to be honest, no reason why international calls should cost so much money anyway.
O2 have already made in-roads with roaming - when I was out in Belgium my charges were:
Free to recieve text messages
7p to send text messages
50p to make or receive calls (50p connection, free for 60 minutes)
however - data is the big problem.
£1.99 per 15Mb of data.
Quite frankly that is ridiculous. There isn't a huge technical issue when getting phones to work on foreign networks so why has there historically been a huge cost involved?
There was a time when I recall someone roaming merely paid the standard tariff of the network you roamed on to.
Admittedly this could cause confusion, without easy access to the rates, but it was still almost always cheaper than the simplified (and massively inflated) rates the networks introduced when telling users what they'd pay by setting roaming tariffs.
It was just the wholesale cost plus a reasonable markup which often meant the calls were cheaper than the roaming networks own domestic prices. It meant there were massive differences depending on what network you selected so you did need to know which network was best. Then it was all 'simplified' i.e find the most expensive one and charge that for every network.
In principle, it would seem quite reasonable to charge up to double for anything whilst roaming (because the revenue should be shared between your network and the network providing you with service).
If the networks had just done that I don't think there would have been too much argument.
In practice, roaming charges have been totally unjustifiable and in many cases continue to be so.
A few years ago I was working in India and had a contract phone with Orange. I recall paying something like £2 per minute to make a call and £1 per minute to receive in a country where local tariffs were much cheaper than in the UK. At that time, I think Orange were charging me about 20p per minute out of bundle. I'm pretty sure they weren't giving the extra £1.80 all to the Indian network - rather just coining it in at my expense.
At least within the EU, roaming calls are capped at a reasonable level. Data roaming charges continue to be highway robbery.
What we really need is a network to take the lead with pan-European bundles and make legislation unnecessary.
Find the most expensive one, then round up a bit more, you mean!
It's a real shame there wasn't tough regulation back then, to stop the networks being able to do whatever they wanted and act in a true cartel fashion. Even the likes of Orange and One2One, both networks that shook things up when they launched, soon realised it was easier to just play the game.
Three is one of the only networks I can think of that hasn't (although it did axe 3LikeHome for some odd reason), along with a few MVNOs.
I've seen an argument that the pressure is really an economic one. With free call apps like Viber, Skype, Facetime etc, users are waiting until they are in a free WiFi zone and making calls home and to businesses so getting them without charge. So the providers are losing money, raising the pressure to remove the roaming charges.
What industry would actively seek to tell people to NOT do something, rather than coming up with reasonable fees to encourage usage. We've had roaming since December 1991 in the UK, but as time has gone on - more people were turning roaming off!
My theory is that for some time, the big operators (like Vodafone) were doing exceptionally well from business customers that happily paid the high fees, especially for data. As long as they paid, or bought bundles for silly money, who cared about anyone else? Chuck em some pathetic allowance of a few MB per day and they'll be fine - and if they use more, bill em hundreds or thousands - and just waive or adjust the bills for anyone that dares moan and doesn't just pay up.
But as time has gone on, especially with the negative publicity and horror stories in the media, I guess that revenue is shrinking - and more businesses are savvy enough to use Wi-Fi and other services.
I guess the operators only have themselves to blame, for not seeing that they couldn't fleece people forever. And I expect the EC has played a part in this, as we can still see huge roaming charges outside the EU.