Because it's obviously inaccurate. Eccleston isn't the Ninth Doctor now. He's the Tenth Doctor. Hurt is the Ninth Doctor.
Maybe you didn't read it (it was mentioned not too far back in this thread) but Moffat says Eccleston is officially still the Ninth Doctor, and that he took great care to make sure that the Hurt Doctor didn't refer to himself as the Doctor and therefore he wasn't the Ninth "Doctor", just an ambiguity, like the Metacrisis.
Surely the exec producer of the show has the last word about how the characters should be named, since he is the one who introduced the controversy in the first place? We can't really say Moffat is "wrong" about his own idea can we?
Or, if you want to say that Hurt is still "the Doctor" character then by that logic there is really only one Doctor.
• 1 Doctor
• 14 Incarnations
• 12 of them have been "the Doctor"
I suppose it's a bit like…
• 1 Doctor Who series
• Many "series" over the years
• A handful of spin-off series (like Torchwood and Sarah Jane) that are still part of that continuation but don’t count as "Doctor Who series".
Why cant Tom Baker be himself as the 4th doctor?
Matt smith Doctor says he recognises him, "never forgets a face" and talks about "old favourites", which tom Baker was from the old shows.
If Tom Baker was a future doctor Matt smith doctor wouldnt recognise him.
The fourth Doctor regenerated into the fifth Doctor when he was young. A lot younger than Tom Baker looks now. That is why they couldn't do a cameo of Tom Baker playing the fourth Doctor.
However, the dialogue stated that they were both the Doctor and then went on to say that "sometimes the Doctor might want to revisit an old face". The implication being that, at some point, the Doctor could choose what his regeneration would look like rather than it being random and that he would choose to look like his previous fourth incarnation. We know the Time Lords have that power because they were going to do it when Troughton regenerated, offering him various faces to choose from and, Romana got to choose what she looked like for her own regeneration. Plus Night of the Doctor showed that the regeneration could be controlled by the Sisterhood.
Which doctor did Elizabeth 1 make curator of the Under gallery? Was it the Tennant doctor?Matt smith doctor wants to retire and be a curator too, and Tom Baker is the current curator.
Do all doctors end up as curators?
I couldn't find anything to suggest that Elizabeth made any Doctor a curator.
Matt Smith's Doctor thought he might like to eventually retire and become the curator and then found out that, one day, he did, in the form of Tom Baker.
There was only one Doctor who became Curator that we know about and that was a future Doctor who took the form of his fourth regeneration.
It has just occurred to me that the Ninth Doctor, despite having the least time on our screens, would now seem to be the longest-living Doctor to date, since he's the one who appeared to have physically aged the most by the end of his lifespan. (Or second longest, if we count the Tom Baker #2 Doctor.) Then McCoy would be third. Though there is a chance the First Doctor was the longest as we don't really know how long he had been around when he first stole that TARDIS.
In terms of the TV show (not the mythos) why have they given us a new 9th Doctor?
Did they need to make Capaldi the 13th Doctor, couldn't they have just made him the 12th and had another one later?
I think the intention was to give us a Doctor to represent the 16 year gap that Doctor Who was off the air.
It also works as a great wrong-footing twist which is always fun in drama.
Most importantly for the fans, I think it allowed us to see McGann's regeneration which we would previously have been denied. Now we have a complete bridge between the classic and new who with everybody's regenerations seen.
He mentioned to Rose once (though don't remember now which show) and he he added and "believe me she was no....( obviously meaning virgin though he never finished the sentence." Anyone else remember which show it was? I believe they were running back into the TARDIS.
The girl was handed the inhaler thus working out who was who, did you miss that bit? she would have known she was Zygon and the treaty would have fallen apart. It should have been resolved, even if it was visited for a minute or so, but it was completely forgotten about, shoddy writing.
Why would the Zygon have jeapardized the treaty when the alternative was everyone being blown up by a nuclear bomb?
It was in everyone's best interests at that point to not say anything and let the treaty work.
When she handed her double the inhaler it was symbolic that they could live together peacefully. The safe and peaceful resolution was, therefore, implied by that moment.
I liked it, a few slow bits for me, sitting around in barns and stuff, and all the queen elizabeth stuff could easily have been removed, but overall amazing, the last half hour especially.
As the youtube link above shows, the Queen Elizabeth stuff was actually a way to resolve all the previous references to the tenth Doctor's relationship with her, so it served a greater purpose. I must say, I'd completely forgotten about it but it's cool now I've seen that youtube!
The only part that bugs me is that it was written by Moffat who has shown he can do better. Also, the story didn't seem to be aimed at non-fans, so why not go all out? Why not finally reveal how Susan is the Doctor's granddaughter? Why not have a companion with more personality like River or Donna to fill in the mind-numbing role they gave Billie Piper? Why not throw Paul McGann in the mix, since he was keen and they just ended up using a photo of him?
There was only so much time available. Susan is a whole other sub-plot which may well be explored at a future time but has nothing to do with the story of the Time War.
In my opinion, Billie Piper was absolutely brilliant as the moment. I loved her performance.
Paul McGann was already thrown in the mix through the Night of the Doctor minisode. His Doctor would have made no sense to the story, though. It was about the Hurt Doctor's decision and he had to visit future Doctors to make that decision. Visiting a past Doctor would have served no purpose at all.
I've been thinking about this for a little bit. I'm starting to enjoy it more for the romp that it was rather than the darker/dramatic thing I was expecting (I didn't watch any ads other than the minute long one) but... one thing I can't get over. What was the point of it all? Was it just to bring Gallifrey back? Cause in the end that was really the only thing that changed.
Apart from the fact that bringing Gallifrey back is an amazing game changer of a change. More importantly, the Doctor's entire nu-who personality and feelings of personal tragedy will now change. He is no longer haunted by his past and wallowing in regret, he can now be far more optimistic. He has a purpose now, to find Gallifrey. His whole outlook is set to have a major seed change.
Because of the confusion over the Doctor's timelines.
Paradoxes sort themselves out in the Doctor Who universe.
Say the Doctor went back in time and killed JFK. Then a future Doctor felt guilty about it and stopped the past Doctor from doing it.
But then if the past Doctor hadn't managed to kill JFK, there would be no need for the future Doctor to go back and prevent it. So he doesn't.
So the past Doctor is now free to kill JFK, so he does. So then the future Doctor has to go back and ...
... thus is created a paradox ...
The easiest solution to this paradox. The future Doctor forgets that the past Doctor killed JFK, so he never goes back to prevent it. Even though it was in the papers and stuff.
I'd say that was close but, as a Time Lord, the Doctor tends to remember when time lines change and the TARDIS protects him from the effects of paradoxes.
The reason he forgets in this case is because, as he says, "the timelines are out of synch". Crossing his own personal timeline is one particular type of paradox that the TARDIS can't protect him from. Whenever the Doctors have met each other in the past, they rarely, if ever, remember it when they return to their personal time streams.
It has just occurred to me that the Ninth Doctor, despite having the least time on our screens, would now seem to be the longest-living Doctor to date, since he's the one who appeared to have physically aged the most by the end of his lifespan. (Or second longest, if we count the Tom Baker #2 Doctor.) Then McCoy would be third. Though there is a chance the First Doctor was the longest as we don't really know how long he had been around when he first stole that TARDIS.
You might find this link interesting (and very confusing!)
That was a huge mess. I don't know how casual folks were to suppose to get it.
I disagree, I thought it actually turned out to be quite straight forward. I'm a casual Doctor Who fan and I got it and thoroughly enjoyed it, in fact it was one of the best pieces of entertainment I've seen on TV for a long time.
I'm in my 40s, I watched Doctor Who in the 70s and 80s and have hardly seen any of the "new Who" other than the odd episode here and there but I believe The Day of the Doctor was written well enough for me to pick up on all the pertinent elements required to understand the story.
I've now watched it a couple of times and wanted to share my feelings on the episode.
First of all I felt it looked much more like a movie than an episode and while I appreciated seeing the original opening theme I wasn't a big fan of the names of actors appearing on the screen but I can live with that.
I'm not so sure if the beginning is right, the last time we saw the Doctor he was trapped with Clara on Trenzalore and inside his own timeline, I was unsure if escape was even possible so seeing Clara and the Doctor back on Earth startled me a little but it quickly got into action with the TARDIS being carried into London.
I loved the little Easter Eggs that appeared such as Tom Baker's Scarf and Clara working near Trotters Lane, Also the 'circle things' inside the TARDIS and the Doctor noticing them, I was just a little let down the curator didn't offer Matt Smith a Jelly Baby at the end, or even vice versa.
As for the SFX and what not, again it looked a little more of a movie but I think the 'Time Lord Act' played on this beautifully. As previously mentioned though one would like to have seen a little more of the time war, we've been told of the nightmare child and what not but we only got to see the fall of Arcadia and the same scenes again and again. As for JH using the Moment, where was he? Was he still on Gallifrey? Perhaps it was just me being an idealist but I always imagined he would use it from within the TARDIS.
I do have a question with the first bits regarding the Time War and Elizabethen England, surely Tara being exposed to the Doctor's timeline (Name of the Doctor) and having read the book "the History of the Time War" (Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS) would have already knew this, or was it just the 11th Doctor reminiscing for the audiences benefit? It did come across as being for Clara's and I am glad they did include it.
Some people seem confused or find the story a little too simplistic, I think the plot was pretty clear: The Moment (or Bad Wolf) was showing the Time War Doctor his future and how he saves worlds in regret of his decision of ending the Time War. The Zygons and Elizabethen England just serves as a purpose to show the Time War Doctor why the decision to end the Time War has made him a better person.
One thing that I found unclear was the TARDIS'. The 11th Doctors was located in London, present day. The Time War Doctors was somewhere near a barn on the last day of the Time War and the 10th's was in Elizabethan England. Then when all 3 meet and go inside the tenths it transforms to the 11ths, we assume this landed somewhere back on Gallifrey for the "Gallifrey Stands No More" Time Lord art that they were frozen in. They break out of the Art to get access into the Black Archive but how does the tenth go back to retrieve it? And if he does, does it just simply change back from the 11ths?
But (and this is the big part that I didn't like) if it was on Gallifrey then both the 10th and the 11th had broken (or was allowed to pass) through the Time Lock, so why wait until they gather in the barn to point it out?
Depending on your understanding of time, was it rewritten or did this always happen and the Doctor (not being able to remember it) believes he used the moment? If so, then isn't Rassillon and the Master going to survive (if we return to Gallifrey) and more importantly remember that the 10th Doctor stopped their escape (End of Time) ?
Also on the moment I did like that they used Bad Wolf Rose to be the conscience, although I was half expecting it to be Clara (as she placed herself across the Doctor's Timeline) but I suppose that doesn't play into the story that she didn't know the Time War's Doctor.
I also agree that it would have been great and fitting to see the 9th Doctor get more screen time as it could have completed the cycle and closed off that era for good. Despite that though I did like the writing for the interaction between the 3 doctors, especially the duo of Matt Smith and David Tennant and the reactions of John Hurt.
In all I feel it lived up to the high expectations and gave us an indication that the Nu Doctor era is going to change forever with the return of Gallifrey. It was obviously well written and a lot of thought put into it and I thoroughly enjoyed it, it also makes me fall in love a little more with Matt Smith's Doctor and I will be saddened to leave the show (although I look forward to Peter Capaldi and found myself smiling when he appeared on the screen).
It has just occurred to me that the Ninth Doctor, despite having the least time on our screens, would now seem to be the longest-living Doctor to date, since he's the one who appeared to have physically aged the most by the end of his lifespan. (Or second longest, if we count the Tom Baker #2 Doctor.) Then McCoy would be third. Though there is a chance the First Doctor was the longest as we don't really know how long he had been around when he first stole that TARDIS.
Do you mean the War Doctor? Because if anything the ninth Doctor/ Eccleston didn't last long at all. Anyway we have no real idea how long any of them lived as we only see some of their time on screen.
Okay, I'm issuing a retraction. After seeing it again, all of it, without interruption, I enjoyed it much better.
And, ironically, the 12 minutes I missed because of my cable company dropping the ball, more or less addressed the issue I had with not really caring about what happened to Gallifrey. The scene I missed was the one with the three doctors in the tower, talking about the children, and then the brilliant door gag.
But real quick, I still think a prologue with all of the doctor's doing voice overs, (and good voice artists for the one's no longer with us) would have been a great way to bring those not very familiar with Doctor Who up to speed, and would have been a nice bookend.
One thing that I can seem to shift from the back of my floppy brain.
Maybe the events in the Gallifrey barn, the 3 Doctors, Clara and the big red button always happened. The Hurt Doctor never did press the button in the first place he was always stopped by the future Doctors.
But because of the 'memory' loss it is only now that Matt Smiths Doctor finds out the truth.
Or was that he whole point and I'm just being dumb for missing it?
One thing that I can seem to shift from the back of my floppy brain.
Maybe the events in the Gallifrey barn, the 3 Doctors, Clara and the big red button always happened. The Hurt Doctor never did press the button in the first place he was always stopped by the future Doctors.
But because of the 'memory' loss it is only now that Matt Smiths Doctor finds out the truth.
Or was that he whole point and I'm just being dumb for missing it?
I always thought I was a Dr Who fan, but clearly I can't be as I seem to be completely alone in thinking the 50th Anniversary edition was a terrible load of old rubbish. Plot seemingly made up on the go; actors hamming it up in an attempt to paper over the huge cracks; John Hurt apparently only chosen to play the Doctor as a means of providing some gravitas; An entirely inappropriate actress playing Elizabeth I; former Doctors very thin on the ground; and unfunny barring a few quips such as Smith's "Dick van Dyke" comment aimed at Tennant. Most of the humour was actually toe curling.
Won't be watching that again. And for me it was so poor that it left me wondering just how many episodes, since the re-start, got by on the huge amounts of goodwill people had at seeing such a classic series return after so many years.
Good to see Tom at the end, but all that strange scene really did was leave me determined to leave room in my viewing schedules for my classic series DVDs.
I had originally thought the Hurt Doctor DID press the button first time around.
Duuhhhh:D
Well, there is most definitely room for discussion there, though - as noting was explicitly stated either way on screen... So don't beat yourself up about it!
Oh, and how many times are we going to see the old "the door was open the whole time!" sketch? It's been regularly getting churned out since the days of Laurel and Hardy, yet Moffat seemed to think it was was such a wheeze that he took up a seemingly unending amount of time with it till it reached it's inevitable, boring conclusion.
Well, there is most definitely room for discussion there, though - as noting was explicitly stated either way on screen... So don't beat yourself up about it!
So after taking the doubt out of my mind you plop it straight back in there.
One thing that I found unclear was the TARDIS'. The 11th Doctors was located in London, present day. The Time War Doctors was somewhere near a barn on the last day of the Time War and the 10th's was in Elizabethan England. Then when all 3 meet and go inside the tenths it transforms to the 11ths, we assume this landed somewhere back on Gallifrey for the "Gallifrey Stands No More" Time Lord art that they were frozen in. They break out of the Art to get access into the Black Archive but how does the tenth go back to retrieve it? And if he does, does it just simply change back from the 11ths?
This one I can explain - The 11th's TARDIS was in Trafalgar Square in the present - they then flew the 10th's from Elizabethian England to the Tower of London (In The Doctor's Wife the TARDIS said she had past and future console rooms archived and as each Doctor touched the controls, the console room changed to "their" personal setting)in the present .
Note - Its not clear whether the three of them took a TARDIS into the Gallifrey Falls painting or just had themselves translated into it.
When the Moment returned the War Doctor to the barn, he was back on the planet his TARDIS landed on and then 10 and 11 piloted their TARDIS' from present day London to that location. Then all three pilot their TARDIS' back to Gallifrey.
… John Hurt apparently only chosen to play the Doctor as a means of providing some gravitas;
Or, if Christopher Ecclestone had been willing to take part and Paul McGann available, perhaps Doctor 8 would simply have been killed off part way and regenerated into the War Doctor (who would have been Doctor 9) wracked with all the guilt of committing double genocide in order to save the universe.
Just watched yet again. One of my favourite DW's ever and will go down as a classic that will be revisited over and over again. So easy to criticise from the side, and using an apt painting analogy, akin to standing in front of a Rembrandt whilst moaning about the curvature on a hat, crease on a sheet or tone of a strand of hair. But truth be told, the ability to point out flaws doesn't make the critic a brilliant artist. The team that put together that show, did us proud. It was simply overflowing with brilliant moments, that held together in a tapestry to provide us with a complete picture that only a grand master would have the ability to conceive. I loved it.
I'm not so sure if the beginning is right, the last time we saw the Doctor he was trapped with Clara on Trenzalore and inside his own timeline, I was unsure if escape was even possible so seeing Clara and the Doctor back on Earth startled me a little but it quickly got into action with the TARDIS being carried into London.
Yes, that's a loose end I'd like to see resolved. I also got the impression they were both trapped inside the Doctor's timeline and I'd like to know just how much of Clara's previous lives she remembers. However, that would have alienated casual viewers if we'd picked up directly after Name so I can see why they skipped past it for the Special.
Just as long as they address it later and don't just bury it as another unsolved mystery :rolleyes:
As for JH using the Moment, where was he? Was he still on Gallifrey? Perhaps it was just me being an idealist but I always imagined he would use it from within the TARDIS.
He was on Gallifrey. He had deliberately walked across the desert to put distance between himself and the TARDIS because he didn't want the TARDIS to see him use the Moment. I rather liked that sentiment which, of course, would not have worked if he had used the Moment from inside the TARDIS.
I do have a question with the first bits regarding the Time War and Elizabethen England, surely Tara being exposed to the Doctor's timeline (Name of the Doctor) and having read the book "the History of the Time War" (Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS) would have already knew this, or was it just the 11th Doctor reminiscing for the audiences benefit? It did come across as being for Clara's and I am glad they did include it.
Clara never experienced the War Doctor's timeline. In Name of the Doctor she had said that she'd met all 11 Doctors but didn't recognise John Hurt. If I remember rightly, the Clara who read the History of the Time War got written out of existence when the Doctor stopped the TARDIS from exploding, thus resetting events. In any case, she only caught a glimpse of the book, she didn't sit down and read it from cover to cover!
Some people seem confused or find the story a little too simplistic, I think the plot was pretty clear: The Moment (or Bad Wolf) was showing the Time War Doctor his future and how he saves worlds in regret of his decision of ending the Time War. The Zygons and Elizabethen England just serves as a purpose to show the Time War Doctor why the decision to end the Time War has made him a better person.
She also showed the Doctor how to save Gallifrey by using the trick the Zygons used to freeze themselves in snapshots of time hidden in the paintings. Plus, the whole thing with the door showed the Doctor how to accomplish hundreds of years worth of computations in a few seconds. Both integral to the eventual solution.
But (and this is the big part that I didn't like) if it was on Gallifrey then both the 10th and the 11th had broken (or was allowed to pass) through the Time Lock, so why wait until they gather in the barn to point it out?
I don't understand. They'd only just broken the time lock by materialising in the barn? What point before that could they have mentioned it?
Depending on your understanding of time, was it rewritten or did this always happen and the Doctor (not being able to remember it) believes he used the moment? If so, then isn't Rassillon and the Master going to survive (if we return to Gallifrey) and more importantly remember that the 10th Doctor stopped their escape (End of Time) ?
This had always happened, they just didn't remember.
The High Council (including Rassilon) were said to be off doing their own thing while all this was going on. They had clearly already removed themselves from the Universe as a means of escape before the Doctors came and hid Gallifrey away. The Master had long since fled to Earth and changed himself into a human so as to avoid whatever it was that removed the other Time Lords from all time and space.
That is one thing, I'm unsure about, though. Given that the Moment wasn't used in the end, what exactly removed all the Time Lords who weren't on Gallifrey at that time from all Time and Space? I suppose it could have been something to do with the High Council's machinations
I always thought I was a Dr Who fan, but clearly I can't be as I seem to be completely alone in thinking the 50th Anniversary edition was a terrible load of old rubbish. Plot seemingly made up on the go; actors hamming it up in an attempt to paper over the huge cracks; John Hurt apparently only chosen to play the Doctor as a means of providing some gravitas; An entirely inappropriate actress playing Elizabeth I; former Doctors very thin on the ground; and unfunny barring a few quips such as Smith's "Dick van Dyke" comment aimed at Tennant. Most of the humour was actually toe curling.
If you look at the poll you will see that you are not the only one but you are definitely in the minority
I think the absence of Christopher Eccleston's Doctor damaged the narrative somewhat. I did thoroughly enjoy what we do have, and I don't feel entitled to demand his return - but the heart of the story was the Moment's interface showing the War Doctor the consequences of the action he was about to take. He was shown what the Doctor would become as a result of bearing the guilt of causing the destruction of billions of innocents on Gallifrey. That aspect was incomplete without Christopher Eccleston's Doctor, the very next Doctor after John Hurt*, having a major part in the story.
A lot of people have expressed dissatisfaction that he wouldn't come back even for a regeneration scene. I think that's somewhat missing the point (It really is a bit lame if all we Whovians want is just to complete the set of regenerations on screen. Or would we really rather have an entertaining and imaginative story? Isn't the story itself the most important thing?).
My point is, the Moment should have been showing John Hurt's Warrior Doctor all three subsequent Doctors who carried the guilt.
I loved what we did get to bits, but it could have been so much better dramatically with the presence of Christopher Eccleston's Doctor.
Comments
Surely the exec producer of the show has the last word about how the characters should be named, since he is the one who introduced the controversy in the first place? We can't really say Moffat is "wrong" about his own idea can we?
Or, if you want to say that Hurt is still "the Doctor" character then by that logic there is really only one Doctor.
• 1 Doctor
• 14 Incarnations
• 12 of them have been "the Doctor"
I suppose it's a bit like…
• 1 Doctor Who series
• Many "series" over the years
• A handful of spin-off series (like Torchwood and Sarah Jane) that are still part of that continuation but don’t count as "Doctor Who series".
Thanks.
The fourth Doctor regenerated into the fifth Doctor when he was young. A lot younger than Tom Baker looks now. That is why they couldn't do a cameo of Tom Baker playing the fourth Doctor.
However, the dialogue stated that they were both the Doctor and then went on to say that "sometimes the Doctor might want to revisit an old face". The implication being that, at some point, the Doctor could choose what his regeneration would look like rather than it being random and that he would choose to look like his previous fourth incarnation. We know the Time Lords have that power because they were going to do it when Troughton regenerated, offering him various faces to choose from and, Romana got to choose what she looked like for her own regeneration. Plus Night of the Doctor showed that the regeneration could be controlled by the Sisterhood.
I couldn't find anything to suggest that Elizabeth made any Doctor a curator.
Matt Smith's Doctor thought he might like to eventually retire and become the curator and then found out that, one day, he did, in the form of Tom Baker.
There was only one Doctor who became Curator that we know about and that was a future Doctor who took the form of his fourth regeneration.
I think the intention was to give us a Doctor to represent the 16 year gap that Doctor Who was off the air.
It also works as a great wrong-footing twist which is always fun in drama.
Most importantly for the fans, I think it allowed us to see McGann's regeneration which we would previously have been denied. Now we have a complete bridge between the classic and new who with everybody's regenerations seen.
It was in the End of Time part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SUxiMoO_VQ
No, we were led to believe it was McGann. The first time we saw Ecclestone's Doctor it was implied that he'd just regenerated.
When we saw John Hurt in the Name of the Doctor most people guessed the truth and the minisode Night of the Doctor, confirmed it.
Why would the Zygon have jeapardized the treaty when the alternative was everyone being blown up by a nuclear bomb?
It was in everyone's best interests at that point to not say anything and let the treaty work.
When she handed her double the inhaler it was symbolic that they could live together peacefully. The safe and peaceful resolution was, therefore, implied by that moment.
It wasn't shoddy, it was just subtle.
As the youtube link above shows, the Queen Elizabeth stuff was actually a way to resolve all the previous references to the tenth Doctor's relationship with her, so it served a greater purpose. I must say, I'd completely forgotten about it but it's cool now I've seen that youtube!
There was only so much time available. Susan is a whole other sub-plot which may well be explored at a future time but has nothing to do with the story of the Time War.
In my opinion, Billie Piper was absolutely brilliant as the moment. I loved her performance.
Paul McGann was already thrown in the mix through the Night of the Doctor minisode. His Doctor would have made no sense to the story, though. It was about the Hurt Doctor's decision and he had to visit future Doctors to make that decision. Visiting a past Doctor would have served no purpose at all.
Apart from the fact that bringing Gallifrey back is an amazing game changer of a change. More importantly, the Doctor's entire nu-who personality and feelings of personal tragedy will now change. He is no longer haunted by his past and wallowing in regret, he can now be far more optimistic. He has a purpose now, to find Gallifrey. His whole outlook is set to have a major seed change.
I'd say that was close but, as a Time Lord, the Doctor tends to remember when time lines change and the TARDIS protects him from the effects of paradoxes.
The reason he forgets in this case is because, as he says, "the timelines are out of synch". Crossing his own personal timeline is one particular type of paradox that the TARDIS can't protect him from. Whenever the Doctors have met each other in the past, they rarely, if ever, remember it when they return to their personal time streams.
You might find this link interesting (and very confusing!)
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Doctor's_age
I disagree, I thought it actually turned out to be quite straight forward. I'm a casual Doctor Who fan and I got it and thoroughly enjoyed it, in fact it was one of the best pieces of entertainment I've seen on TV for a long time.
I'm in my 40s, I watched Doctor Who in the 70s and 80s and have hardly seen any of the "new Who" other than the odd episode here and there but I believe The Day of the Doctor was written well enough for me to pick up on all the pertinent elements required to understand the story.
First of all I felt it looked much more like a movie than an episode and while I appreciated seeing the original opening theme I wasn't a big fan of the names of actors appearing on the screen but I can live with that.
I'm not so sure if the beginning is right, the last time we saw the Doctor he was trapped with Clara on Trenzalore and inside his own timeline, I was unsure if escape was even possible so seeing Clara and the Doctor back on Earth startled me a little but it quickly got into action with the TARDIS being carried into London.
I loved the little Easter Eggs that appeared such as Tom Baker's Scarf and Clara working near Trotters Lane, Also the 'circle things' inside the TARDIS and the Doctor noticing them, I was just a little let down the curator didn't offer Matt Smith a Jelly Baby at the end, or even vice versa.
As for the SFX and what not, again it looked a little more of a movie but I think the 'Time Lord Act' played on this beautifully. As previously mentioned though one would like to have seen a little more of the time war, we've been told of the nightmare child and what not but we only got to see the fall of Arcadia and the same scenes again and again. As for JH using the Moment, where was he? Was he still on Gallifrey? Perhaps it was just me being an idealist but I always imagined he would use it from within the TARDIS.
I do have a question with the first bits regarding the Time War and Elizabethen England, surely Tara being exposed to the Doctor's timeline (Name of the Doctor) and having read the book "the History of the Time War" (Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS) would have already knew this, or was it just the 11th Doctor reminiscing for the audiences benefit? It did come across as being for Clara's and I am glad they did include it.
Some people seem confused or find the story a little too simplistic, I think the plot was pretty clear: The Moment (or Bad Wolf) was showing the Time War Doctor his future and how he saves worlds in regret of his decision of ending the Time War. The Zygons and Elizabethen England just serves as a purpose to show the Time War Doctor why the decision to end the Time War has made him a better person.
One thing that I found unclear was the TARDIS'. The 11th Doctors was located in London, present day. The Time War Doctors was somewhere near a barn on the last day of the Time War and the 10th's was in Elizabethan England. Then when all 3 meet and go inside the tenths it transforms to the 11ths, we assume this landed somewhere back on Gallifrey for the "Gallifrey Stands No More" Time Lord art that they were frozen in. They break out of the Art to get access into the Black Archive but how does the tenth go back to retrieve it? And if he does, does it just simply change back from the 11ths?
But (and this is the big part that I didn't like) if it was on Gallifrey then both the 10th and the 11th had broken (or was allowed to pass) through the Time Lock, so why wait until they gather in the barn to point it out?
Depending on your understanding of time, was it rewritten or did this always happen and the Doctor (not being able to remember it) believes he used the moment? If so, then isn't Rassillon and the Master going to survive (if we return to Gallifrey) and more importantly remember that the 10th Doctor stopped their escape (End of Time) ?
Also on the moment I did like that they used Bad Wolf Rose to be the conscience, although I was half expecting it to be Clara (as she placed herself across the Doctor's Timeline) but I suppose that doesn't play into the story that she didn't know the Time War's Doctor.
I also agree that it would have been great and fitting to see the 9th Doctor get more screen time as it could have completed the cycle and closed off that era for good. Despite that though I did like the writing for the interaction between the 3 doctors, especially the duo of Matt Smith and David Tennant and the reactions of John Hurt.
In all I feel it lived up to the high expectations and gave us an indication that the Nu Doctor era is going to change forever with the return of Gallifrey. It was obviously well written and a lot of thought put into it and I thoroughly enjoyed it, it also makes me fall in love a little more with Matt Smith's Doctor and I will be saddened to leave the show (although I look forward to Peter Capaldi and found myself smiling when he appeared on the screen).
Do you mean the War Doctor? Because if anything the ninth Doctor/ Eccleston didn't last long at all. Anyway we have no real idea how long any of them lived as we only see some of their time on screen.
And, ironically, the 12 minutes I missed because of my cable company dropping the ball, more or less addressed the issue I had with not really caring about what happened to Gallifrey. The scene I missed was the one with the three doctors in the tower, talking about the children, and then the brilliant door gag.
But real quick, I still think a prologue with all of the doctor's doing voice overs, (and good voice artists for the one's no longer with us) would have been a great way to bring those not very familiar with Doctor Who up to speed, and would have been a nice bookend.
Maybe the events in the Gallifrey barn, the 3 Doctors, Clara and the big red button always happened. The Hurt Doctor never did press the button in the first place he was always stopped by the future Doctors.
But because of the 'memory' loss it is only now that Matt Smiths Doctor finds out the truth.
Or was that he whole point and I'm just being dumb for missing it?
That does seem to have been the whole point, yes.
Ta, sebbie.
I had originally thought the Hurt Doctor DID press the button first time around.
Duuhhhh:D
Won't be watching that again. And for me it was so poor that it left me wondering just how many episodes, since the re-start, got by on the huge amounts of goodwill people had at seeing such a classic series return after so many years.
Good to see Tom at the end, but all that strange scene really did was leave me determined to leave room in my viewing schedules for my classic series DVDs.
Well, there is most definitely room for discussion there, though - as noting was explicitly stated either way on screen... So don't beat yourself up about it!
"I saw the Daleks, what we have done throughout time and space. I saw the truth of us, creator, and I decreed : No More !"
Dalek Caan - Journey's End
Point to note : "No More" part of the quote which Clara is saying at the beginning which she rubs out from the board - in reverse.
5.16pm when she races out of the School on the bike.
I like it.
So after taking the doubt out of my mind you plop it straight back in there.
This one I can explain - The 11th's TARDIS was in Trafalgar Square in the present - they then flew the 10th's from Elizabethian England to the Tower of London (In The Doctor's Wife the TARDIS said she had past and future console rooms archived and as each Doctor touched the controls, the console room changed to "their" personal setting)in the present .
Note - Its not clear whether the three of them took a TARDIS into the Gallifrey Falls painting or just had themselves translated into it.
When the Moment returned the War Doctor to the barn, he was back on the planet his TARDIS landed on and then 10 and 11 piloted their TARDIS' from present day London to that location. Then all three pilot their TARDIS' back to Gallifrey.
...You're welcome!
Or, if Christopher Ecclestone had been willing to take part and Paul McGann available, perhaps Doctor 8 would simply have been killed off part way and regenerated into the War Doctor (who would have been Doctor 9) wracked with all the guilt of committing double genocide in order to save the universe.
Yes, that's a loose end I'd like to see resolved. I also got the impression they were both trapped inside the Doctor's timeline and I'd like to know just how much of Clara's previous lives she remembers. However, that would have alienated casual viewers if we'd picked up directly after Name so I can see why they skipped past it for the Special.
Just as long as they address it later and don't just bury it as another unsolved mystery :rolleyes:
He was on Gallifrey. He had deliberately walked across the desert to put distance between himself and the TARDIS because he didn't want the TARDIS to see him use the Moment. I rather liked that sentiment which, of course, would not have worked if he had used the Moment from inside the TARDIS.
Clara never experienced the War Doctor's timeline. In Name of the Doctor she had said that she'd met all 11 Doctors but didn't recognise John Hurt. If I remember rightly, the Clara who read the History of the Time War got written out of existence when the Doctor stopped the TARDIS from exploding, thus resetting events. In any case, she only caught a glimpse of the book, she didn't sit down and read it from cover to cover!
She also showed the Doctor how to save Gallifrey by using the trick the Zygons used to freeze themselves in snapshots of time hidden in the paintings. Plus, the whole thing with the door showed the Doctor how to accomplish hundreds of years worth of computations in a few seconds. Both integral to the eventual solution.
I don't understand. They'd only just broken the time lock by materialising in the barn? What point before that could they have mentioned it?
This had always happened, they just didn't remember.
The High Council (including Rassilon) were said to be off doing their own thing while all this was going on. They had clearly already removed themselves from the Universe as a means of escape before the Doctors came and hid Gallifrey away. The Master had long since fled to Earth and changed himself into a human so as to avoid whatever it was that removed the other Time Lords from all time and space.
That is one thing, I'm unsure about, though. Given that the Moment wasn't used in the end, what exactly removed all the Time Lords who weren't on Gallifrey at that time from all Time and Space? I suppose it could have been something to do with the High Council's machinations
If you look at the poll you will see that you are not the only one but you are definitely in the minority
A lot of people have expressed dissatisfaction that he wouldn't come back even for a regeneration scene. I think that's somewhat missing the point (It really is a bit lame if all we Whovians want is just to complete the set of regenerations on screen. Or would we really rather have an entertaining and imaginative story? Isn't the story itself the most important thing?).
My point is, the Moment should have been showing John Hurt's Warrior Doctor all three subsequent Doctors who carried the guilt.
I loved what we did get to bits, but it could have been so much better dramatically with the presence of Christopher Eccleston's Doctor.
(* As far as we know