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Why do so many people view Leona's Second Album as a "flop"?

mememeemememee Posts: 1,412
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I don't understand this. So 'Echo' never sold as many copies as the almighty 'Spirit' but let's be honest, how many artist's Second Album sells more than their first?

I would also like to point out that 'Echo' got to Number 1 in the UK. Girls Aloud's albums never did as well in Europe as any of Leona's albums. Would you label Girls Aloud a flop? I don't think so.

Also, Echo actually got in to the top 15 in the US which considering how incredibly tough the US market is, that's quite an achievement. It also got top 10 in a number of European Countries.

So I guess what I'm saying is, do people label 'Echo' a flop in terms of performance or in terms of comparison to Spirit? I'm not denying that if handled correctly, 'Echo' could have been huge. However, In terms of quality, its the best album from an X Factor artist.
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    soulmusicsoulmusic Posts: 2,396
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    Lol, it is silly, how can an album that sold 700,000 in UK and over 1.4 mill in total be a flop? Of course it didn't match Spirit sales, but many artists would love to sell this amount, people even start threads saying she is in danger of being dropped, so funny. I actually preferred Echo to Spirit, loved each track on Echo.
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    mkirilenkofanmkirilenkofan Posts: 1,024
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    Spirit in the US sold 1.6m+ and the is more than many nowadays.

    Echo has sold over 200k which is more than other albums that charted higher. It's debut was 68k which if it were to have been in a week in Jan 2010, it would have been number 1.

    Her singles;

    Bleeding Love - 4m sold :-O

    Better In Time - 2m sold and huge on radio.

    I will be & run - both went in Hot 100 with no promo really.

    Happy - sold over 500k (gold) and is her best critically acclaimed song.

    I Got You - poorly pushed from record label and was an awful choice as a single.

    Collide - may not have set America alight but SHE DID go to number 1 on the dance charts which is HUGE IMO for an artist seen as "boring" and "only does ballads".


    Her second may have done bad compared to Spirit (has now shipped 9m). Echo still sold well all around the world. And only with 1 and a half singles.
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    kryskryskryskrys Posts: 3,322
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    But its all relative isn't it? For example if Nicola Robert's latest album sold one million worldwide, it would be a massive hit. But if Lady Gaga's sold the same it would be a huge flop. You can't just say that a certain chart position or number of sales = a hit or a flop. It all depends on the artist and the context.

    I'd probably describe Echo as a minor flop. Its sales were disappointing when you compare it to Sprit. There was only one hit single from the album (which sold nothing compared to Run or Bleeding Love), the second single underperformed, and then the label dropped the whole campaign. I think 'flop' is a fair description, although it could have done a lot worse.
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    ItsTimmyTimeItsTimmyTime Posts: 1,018
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    I think because Happy didn't become Bleeding Love Part 2 Echo was pre-determined to be a flop in the public's eyes.

    Personally, I think Echo is far superior to Spirit! I don't think Happy was the right lead single though! It was indeed a great single but It didn't have the epic quality of BL. Brave or Can't Breathe probably would have been better in my opinion! Followed by I Got You in the US, Stop Crying Your Heart Out in the UK, then Don't Let Me Down worldwide as single three, and Happy as single four. I'm not a market expert but to me that seems like maximum exposure in the right areas! The R'n'B/midtempo elements of IGY would suit the US perfectly, whereas SCYHO would do well in the UK because of the song being well known but a different take on it, like Run. Don't Let Me Down would be a moderate hit I'd say, but then fans would be happy that Happy was being released cause it's a great song and it would be a return to form for Leona as it is a little bit Bleeding Love-ish but it doesn't need to be as epic because it's just single #4! :p
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    Toy_HeroToy_Hero Posts: 11,358
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    It's silly to call her a flop. Yes it did underperform but in no way did it flop. It still sold more than most albums in UK. Echo sold well of the back of 1 single pretty much. Charting at #13 in US due to Happy is actually quite good for an artist like Leona because she hasn't got the fanbase or popularity of people like Rihanna, Katy Perry, Beyonce, Lady Gaga etc. I'd say if Leona had got to #1 in US with 'Echo' and it still had sold the amount it had, people wouldn't be calling it a flop.

    Imo, and I say it all the time, "I Got You" was a shit second single. Had it been something like Broken, Alive or Can't Breathe then maybe the album promotion may have extended.

    Others say that fans blame the underperforming on lack of promotion but the bottom line is that it's the truth. The promotion of I Got You was woeful and very sloppy. Then to abandon the album like a sunken ship did no favours.

    Personally, I'd take Echo over Spirit
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    Diceroll_81Diceroll_81 Posts: 904
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    I think the problem is that people compared the album's level of success with what Leona was predicted to have achieved at the time.

    When Leona won XF she was touted by Cowell as the an upcoming megastar diva, the new Mariah etc. It seemed like his prediction was coming true after Bleeding Love became a smash everywhere around the world and Sprit started selling in the millions.

    After this a lot of people expected Leona to take over the world, do major worldwide tours, keep selling millions of albums and basically build on the (already fantasic) success she was having. Instead her second album sold a fraction of her first and it seemed like a lot of people had already forgotten about her and moved on to other female singers like Gaga etc.

    I agree with people who say that selling over a million copies of Echo (or whatever the sales were) isn't exactly flopping, but IMO people were expecting her to be a worldwide megastar by the time it was released and she wasn't even close.
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    LostIslands_LostIslands_ Posts: 630
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    Her third album, that's a flop waiting to happen.

    She's been going down a very small hill, has she reached the bottom?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 173
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    In my opinion, a lot of people wanted Leona Lewis to flop. There's a serious lack of support for her as an artist, especially in the UK. She's arguably one of the most talented vocalists we've ever had and yet she gets the most hate in her own country.

    Spirit sold well worldwide and Echo didn't, but Echo still sold well as a single album. Compared to Spirit it didn't, but I don't believe in artists comparing albums to each other. Each album is individual and should be looked at as such. Echo could have potentially sold more had Leona Lewis' label not given up on it. One worldwide single that received mixed reviews isn't enough to sell an album. I personally do not think Echo had that many single-worthy material on there (though it was a quality album), but I think Can't Breathe could have been re-vamped and made a bit edgier for a single mix and potentially could have been a hit for her.

    It's time people got behind this girl and supported her because "Happy" and the majority of the material on Echo is still miles ahead of the club-trash that's released these days.
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    user1234567user1234567 Posts: 12,378
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    It was a huge flop. 1.4 million sales might be impressive for some but Leona was flying high after Spirit. She was everywhere and there was lots of momentum which they pretty much killed with ironically a song called Happy. I like Leona and I'm not hating but I can see why the second album is considered a flop. Echo was pretty much an echo of Spirit's success :p
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    LewnaticcLewnaticc Posts: 3,933
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    Yes, Echo is a flop. Although the sales were healthy, compared to Spirit they were abysmal. Her fans can dress it up any way they like, but the proof is in the pudding. It doesn't matter if someone here says "I personally think Echo is much better than Spirit!" because their opinion does not equal fact or sales.
    Leona has a lot to prove with GlassHeart, and she's not off to a good start with the very long delay. It's obvious to assume SyCo got very nervous after the under-performance of Collide and thus carted the album back off to take a new direction.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 173
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    Lewnaticc wrote: »
    Yes, Echo is a flop. Although the sales were healthy, compared to Spirit they were abysmal. Her fans can dress it up any way they like, but the proof is in the pudding. It doesn't matter if someone here says "I personally think Echo is much better than Spirit!" because their opinion does not equal fact or sales.
    Leona has a lot to prove with GlassHeart, and she's not off to a good start with the very long delay. It's obvious to assume SyCo got very nervous after the under-performance of Collide and thus carted the album back off to take a new direction.

    You're wrong about "Collide". The label didn't seem too bothered about pushing it once the Avicii scandal broke. If "Collide" was truly meant to be Leona's comeback single, don't you think they would have her on more shows than just one? Leona usually does GMTV and a few of the other UK shows when promoting a single. All she did was Red and Black. As well as that, the video was released late and it got limited radio play. They never tried with "Collide" because of Avicii. Simple as that.

    The album was delayed because the producer who worked with Adele on "21" became available and Leona wanted to work with him, so they delayed the album so she could have had studio time with him. Please don't assume things if you don't know the facts.
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    konebyvaxkonebyvax Posts: 9,120
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    I also thought the new album had an established release date and they shelved the album because of the failure of Collide? So did it never have a release date planned? :confused:
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    Hav_mor91Hav_mor91 Posts: 17,183
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    In sales terms not really it didn't fail spectacularly but neither did set the world alight and after spirit would be seen as a flop plus also the material was again sub par and boring.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 173
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    konebyvax wrote: »
    I also thought the new album had an established release date and they shelved the album because of the failure of Collide? So did it never have a release date planned? :confused:

    It was supposed to be released on November the 28th of last year. They didn't delay the album due to Collide's lack of success, because the label only had themselves to blame for that.

    They delayed the album because a producer became available who Leona really wanted to work with. They wanted to go back into the studio to work on more songs incase any surprise "hits" came up, so it was apt to delay the album til this year.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 549
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    it didnt do as well as Spirit, thats why people call it a flop

    but it sold millions, made her record company alot of money, she did a big UK tour off the back of it (4 nights at The O2).

    what were final worldwide sales? around 3 million? that's loads!!!

    someone did a post on here lately "Best Selling Albums In The World 2011" and I couldnt believe how low sales were!! gone are the days when albums sold 20+ million to be considered a global huge record
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    soulmusicsoulmusic Posts: 2,396
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    So judging by a few posters here, an album that sold around 1.5 million in total is a flop - do not understand that - hardly any UK artists sell over that amount (apart from Adele & rock bands) - are they considered flops. It is funny how other artists are considered successful that haven't sold that amount. If the basis of flop is comparision to previous record, that is ridiculous, most artists in the world have albums that didn't sell as much as the previous one. All I can say is that any UK artists that have sold less than 1.4 million must be flops then if sales are relevant.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,106
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    i wish leona would have bigger success than what she's having
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    amo1980amo1980 Posts: 803
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    Not a flop... sales like that are still healthy... just didnt live up to expectations... i have a feeling that the expectation was that it would fly off the shelves without any real effort... when that didnt happen maybe the label were a little shell-shocked... and didnt know how to respond (certainly not in a decent timescale anyway!)... also, for the project to be 'given up on' so quickly, i get the feeling there may have been more goin on behind the scenes that we arent aware of... so i wont speculate on all the reasons for the 'relative flop' lol

    good luck to her on the next era... very much looking forward to new material, and have a good feeling... i think she's in a good place right now... seems more confident lately :-)
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    kutoxkutox Posts: 16,368
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    Fans can argue about sales figures and statistics all they like, but no-one really cares about Leona any more, apart from her die-hard fanbase. I don't think anyone can honestly be surprised at that.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 46
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    I think if she was a better performer, and I don't mean vocally, more in terms of stage presence/showmanship- I would go see Lady Gaga/Beyonce/Katy Perry way before I'd go see her. She needs to tour more in support of albums, it's the best type of promotion for any artist in my opinion.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 17,233
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    peadar wrote: »
    I think if she was a better performer, and I don't mean vocally, more in terms of stage presence/showmanship- I would go see Lady Gaga/Beyonce/Katy Perry way before I'd go see her. She needs to tour more in support of albums, it's the best type of promotion for any artist in my opinion.

    She did an arena tour after Echo and I think a lot of people were surprised at the fact that she could put on a great show, not just stand there and sing. Forgive Me was one of my favourites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLXhwJj-UMs

    I think she's planning on touring this year as well, UK and Europe but that's not confirmed :)

    EDIT: This isn't aimed at you btw but a lot of people criticise Leona for just standing there and singing but I think Leona is one of those acts you go to see for her voice, not for the massive stage productions and dance routines. Obviously, those sorts of things are needed for the uptempo's which she did do for songs like Forgive Me, Outta My Head, Take A Bow etc. during her last tour.

    No one criticises Adele for example for just standing at the mic and singing. Adele will just stand there with a band behind her and sing and there is no mention of the fact that she hasn't moved from the mic stand. This isn't a diss to Adele btw, I'm a fan of hers too!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,106
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    peadar wrote: »
    I think if she was a better performer, and I don't mean vocally, more in terms of stage presence/showmanship- I would go see Lady Gaga/Beyonce/Katy Perry way before I'd go see her. She needs to tour more in support of albums, it's the best type of promotion for any artist in my opinion.

    she may not be a fan of touring.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 46
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    shn321 wrote: »
    She did an arena tour after Echo and I think a lot of people were surprised at the fact that she could put on a great show, not just stand there and sing. Forgive Me was one of my favourites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLXhwJj-UMs

    I think she's planning on touring this year as well, UK and Europe but that's not confirmed :)

    EDIT: This isn't aimed at you btw but a lot of people criticise Leona for just standing there and singing but I think Leona is one of those acts you go to see for her voice, not for the massive stage productions and dance routines. Obviously, those sorts of things are needed for the uptempo's which she did do for songs like Forgive Me, Outta My Head, Take A Bow etc. during her last tour.

    No one criticises Adele for example for just standing at the mic and singing.

    I don't know, Adele has more presence than Leona. My perception of Leona is she can belt it out with the best of them but is kind of bland at the same time. But if she had a rep of putting on a good show, I personally would definitely go see her.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 17,233
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    peadar wrote: »
    I don't know, Adele has more presence than Leona. My perception of Leona is she can belt it out with the best of them but is kind of bland at the same time. But if she had a rep of putting on a good show, I personally would definitely go see her.

    Fair enough :)

    I just hope Glassheart changes people's perceptions of her because from what critics have said so far, it's her best work so far, a lot more darker and edgier.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 46
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    shn321 wrote: »
    Fair enough :)

    I just hope Glassheart changes people's perceptions of her because from what critics have said so far, it's her best work so far, a lot more darker and edgier.

    She has the potential to be up there with the best of them, I am interested in what she does next, and will be keeping an eye out.
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