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Who was the most versatile, Barbara, Bette, Joan or Katie?
There were four prominant Hollywood actresses of the 1930's, '40's and '50's. They were Barbara Stanwyck, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford and Katharine Hepburn. Out of the four, Stanwyck is probably less known by todays generation, although her career has been re evaluated in the 18 years since her death. She also happens to be my all time favourite actress and I run a yahoo web site for her. I admired all four ladies for their own individual qualities. There was certainly no danger of getting them confused with each other, unlike so many of todays actresses who all seem to have come out of the same mould. I would be interested to hear what some of our Classic Movie buffs think. I would also prefer not to hear from certain people saying, "who are they, never heard of them?"
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Leaving aside her well-received stage work, the sheer range of Davis' cinematic output attests to her versatility, too. Drama, comedy, romance, horror, melodrama, 'highbrow' stuff - I don't think that there's anything she didn't do.
She was never afraid of being challenged in her work either, frequently arguing with studio bosses because they wouldn't allow her to take on roles that they felt were too unsympathetic. Davis refused to be pigeonholed for safety's sake, and always sought to be challenged as an artist.
Agreed, although Barbara had the edge on her in comedy, The Lady Eve was one of the greatest screwball comedies. In fact, that and All About Eve are my two favourite films of all time. It was only a few years ago that I discovered that Mary Orr who wrote the original book, "The Wisdom of Eve", was a friend of Preston Sturges, the director of The Lady Eve. She borrowed the names of Stanwyck's character Jean Harrington, and her alta ego Lady Eve Sidwich, and combined them to fit the heroine/villainess Eve Harrington in All About Eve.
The Catered Affair is a good example of that.
Can I also give an honourable mention to Judy Holliday who isn't as well known as she should be.
Ball of Fire is terrific, and she was Oscar nominated for that role, but to me Eve is her greatest performance. They are both available on DVD, I bought a 6 box set on Barbara which included Eve for just £25. I have 87 of her 88 films and finally met her at The Lincoln Centre Tribute to her in 1981. Like all true stars, she was charming, although surprisingly shy. But she DID suggest that we have our photo taken together as I had travelled all that way to see her. What a Lady!!
You most certainly can, and coincidentally she beat Bette for the Oscar in 1950 for her brilliant performance in Born Yesterday. Not only was she up against Bette AND Anne Baxter in All About Eve, but also Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard. All three deserved an Acadamy Award that year. Ironically, Swanson is rumoured to have said, "Oh my dear, you have so much time for another chance to win an Oscar". Sadly, Judy was to die just 15 years later at only 42.
Bette Davies starred in one of my all time favourite weepies - 'Dark Victory'. I haven't seen it in years but I remember being in floods of tears at the end. Of course, 'Now Voyager', which is a classic, is best remembered for her equally classic line 'Oh Jerry, let's not ask for the moon. We have the stars'. Magic!
She had a wide range, though. She was equally adept at portraying good or evil and was magnificently cutting and arch in 'All about Eve'.
To my shame, I have never yet seen a Barbara Stanwyck film! I do remember her exceedingly well, though, from one of my favourite westerns when I was young - 'Big Valley' (the show that introduced Lee Majors to the TV audience!). She was majestic in that, portraying the matriarch of the family with aplomb. She was steely, caring and not afraid to take on a challenge.
I think the only film I've seen Joan Crawford in was 'Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?' which teamed her up with her alleged nemesis, Bette Davis. The stories behind the scenes are legendary, of course :eek::) and however true, the seething hatred between the two 'sisters' is incredibly well portrayed! You get the feeling they really do want to kill each other!
Ah, it's nice to sit down and discuss people other than the norm on here. Thanks, skinray, for starting this thread. Now, what about one for the men (just to even things up, you know?). (I would plump for dancers/singers/actors - Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Donald O'Connor and Danny Kaye. the fact that all four are firm favourites of mine (Danny just pipping the others to the top slot in this particular category), has nothing to do with it!
I agree, shame about that awful wig though. Billy Wilder wanted to make her look as cheap as possible. Unfortunately, she ended up looking like a rather unconvincing drag queen, great performance though.
I am sad to hear that you have not seen any of Barbara's films, to see how versatile she was, I recommend The Lady Eve and Ball of Fire, both comedies, Some, like Martin Scorcese call Double Indemnity the greatest film noir of all time. Another great thriller is The Strange Love of Martha Ivers, in which Kirk Douglas made his film debut as her weakling husband.
My favourite actors are Paul Newman and James Cagney, and I loved Fred Astaire in anything, also Judy Garland. I share your enthusiasm for Lemmon and Matthau in The Odd Couple. It was the latter who once said about Barbara, "When she is good she is very, very good, but when she is bad she's TERRIFIC!"
I will try to catch one of her films when I can. My taste runs to comedies at the moment (I like an escape from real life and I find dramas a bit heavy going right now - not that I don't love them usually and definitely appreciate them, but I think I need a bit of fun in my life!). I'll see what i can do.
Yes, Paul Newman is excellent. I really loved him and Robert Redford in 'Butch Cassidy ...' and 'The Sting' (of course, from the former come the lines 'Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?' from Sundance when he's blown half the train up and the infamous expletive when they have to jump from the cliff. (Sundance) 'I can't swim' (Butch) (laughs uproariously) 'The fall'll probably kill ya!'
Class!!!
Course, that's more 'up to date' (dear god, it was 30 years ago and it's 'more up to date'???) than the films and actors/performers we started off discussing but it's no less relevent. Great performances are great performances. (And the fact that the two actors have remained great friends is lovely).
I'm a true Bette fan I am afraid.
Joan was not for me, never took to her.
Kate was brilliant and 'Bringing up Baby' and 'The Phildelphia story' she was fab in though my favourite of hers was 'Alice Adams.'
Barbara I have watched but found her a bit hard, sorry...though great in 'Ball of fire'. (off the top of my head...hope that is right!)
I do love a screwball comedy.
However, versatility is Bette. She could do drama (Dark Victory/Elizabeth and Essex) she could do satire (All about Eve, possibly my favourite) she could do comedy (The man who came to dinner) She could do the bitch alot (but my favourite was 'In this our life') and she could basically turn her hand to anything.
Possibly my favourite actress.
Now read back the thread and good call. Sadly died young, love all her movies and read all her biog's...she was a brilliant comedienne.
I admire him so much as man too, he has done so much for underprivileged children. All of the profits from his salad dressing go to his many charities, and incidentally, I am never without a bottle of his dressing, it really is delicious.
Interestingly enough, Barbara was already a Star at Warners when Bette had a small but significant role in her 1932 film, "So Big". Unfortunately, although they were in the same room they didn't share a scene together.
Yes, Judy Holliday was wonderful. It was terrible that she died so early. I'll always remember her performance in 'Born Yesterday'. It can never be bettered (although didn't Melanie Griffiths take on the role in a remake?. She was good - but you cant' really outdo perfection).
I do hate the preponderance of remakes, incidentally. They've done it with a lot of my favourite movies. 'All Quiet on the Western Front' (the best anti-war movie ever made, starring Lew Ayres, amongst others). I think that was remade with Richard Thomas (Waltons). The Defiant Ones (one of the best films ever made and one of Tony Curtis's finest performances. It goes without saying that Sydney Poitier was magnificent in his role). That one was remade starring Rubert Urich, I believe (I have never seen it, despite actually liking Robert Urich. It would feel disloyal and besides, the original was and always will be the best). The list goes on ...
Oh, anyone else remember Betty Hutton (yes, I know that one came out of left fiield but I've been struggling to remember her all afternoon and I finally did!). She was fantastic in 'Annie get your gun' (which I haven't seen in years!), and I loved her in The Greatest Show on Earth' (a favourite film of mine despite the fact that Charlton Heston is in it. I didn't like his politics or his gun stance in later years but he was a fine actor in his day and he's excellent in this movie). Of course, Cornel Wilde (also a favourite of mine) also stars in this - together with Gloria Graham, who we were discussing on the other thread! She gets around, doesn't she?
And on that note, I'll see you later, guys. I have to go have dinner!
The other 3 were genuinely great actresses. BUt, wonderful as Hepburn was, her accent did limit the credible range of her roles - what she did was wonderful. But the characters didn't range too far.
Of the remainder? I think Davis had more star power but I'd probably opt for Stanwyck. I think she also worked with a better range of directors.
For versatility Joan Crawford ran a close second - she always seemed a little hard (but maybe that was more to do with her jawline!) but was really liked her in The Women and Jonny Guitar
Barbara Stanwyck, as everybody has already said was outstanding in Double Indemnity - I loved the fact that back then actresses were not afraid to be strong and unapologetic in their actions
Kathryn I loved best with Spencer Tracy - Woman of The Year and Adams Rib(though I liked African Queen with Mr Bogart didn't really capture me in this particular role) and really liked the work with Sidney Poitier in Guess Whos Coming To Dinner -
Where is that real star quality today?
And where are the intelligent film scripts to encourage great actresses to do movies?
Alan
Agreed - my god these days it's like they never heard of the term 'film noir' - can you imagine any of the current crop making something like Robert Mitchum's NIght of the Hunter - not flaming likely:rolleyes:
Mr Skeffington was on quite recently, and I loved Jezebel which Bette got for missing out on the Scarlett O'Hara role. Was is the white dress that she wore that was actually pale blue as it photographed better in black and white.
Never had much time for Joan Crawford and can't recall many Barbara Stanwyck films.
Katherine Hepburn was wonderful though, The Philadelphia Story with James Steward and Cary Grant is one of my favourites. Was it Celeste Holm who played Liz Imbrie, the photographer? She's not credited on imdb.
eta - Celeste Holm was in the remake High Society
As I said when I started this thread, Stanwyck is the least known of these four ladies. One of the main reasons was that she was not affiliated to one studio. She freelanced for most of her career, or had short term contacts with two studios at the same time, Columbia, RKO and Warners in the '30s, Paramount and Warners in the '40's. This worked for, and against her. It meant that she was always a high earner, and in 1944 the U.S. Treasury announced that she had been the highest paid woman in the USA in 1943, earning $323,333, an incredible amount at that time. Sadly, when Oscar time came around she did not get the fanfares and publicity from the studios that she had made her Oscar nominated films for. Consequently, she lost out on all four nominations. They did try and make it up to her in 1982 by awarding her an Honorary Oscar, and she did win 3 Emmy's for her TV work. She was also only the third actress to be awarded the AFI Career Achievement Award, Bette was the first, Lilian Gish the second.
*Has a little happy fit* I love 'The Catered Affair'! Bette is fabulous in it. There is a wonderful scene where she is sitting in her bedroom while her husband is talking and she just lets the life go out of her - just sags and looks utterly weary - and you cannot take your eyes off her. Even when made to look as down at heel and dowdy as she does in that film, she still commands all attention when she is on screen.
I think Jimmy Cagney had a similar ability to keep you riveted to the screen. His last scene in 'Angels with Dirty Faces'? The scene in the prison dining hall in 'White Heat' The scene with grapefruit in 'The Public Enemy' is chillingly horrible. He scares the hell out of me in that role.
I liked Stanwyck in the films I've seen with her in, I just didn't think she has the same degree of range as Bette. I have seen more Davis films, though, so it's not a fair comparison.
Crawford, well, as a Davis fan I'd have to say she's not even in the same league!
I like Katherine Hepburn. What I don't like (and this is probably heretical) is how many of the same type of film she did with Spencer Tracy. I feel that they restricted her - I always get the impression that she is suppressing her talent, in a way. I could be off-base, but that's the feeling I get.
I just don't think modern actors and actresses have the same magnetism as the old stars of Hollywood (Al Pacino excepted). They're homogenised and just......blah.
Sorry for rambling on, but I love films of the 30s, 40s and 50s!
For me it's Kate all the way. I can honestly say she changed my life when I first saw her in "Woman of the Year." That and "the Philadelphia Story" remain my two favourite films of all time. Strong, inspiring woman and phenomenal actress. Still greatly missed.