Well that would depend on what that firm action is I guess.
Personally, as I've posted before, I want to see an end to religious mainstream schools. Schools should be all inclusive, not be run along religious grounds and be entirely secular all following the same curriculum or following curriculum approved by the Department for Education. There should be a complete ban on foreign curriculum, especially when those curriculum come from countries such as Saudi Arabia. The promotion and teaching of Wahhabism in schools should be banned.
Religious Education should still be taught, but it should look at all of the major religions, their contributions to history and culture and all be given equal prominence. The lessons should place more of an effort in examining their similarities, what they have in common and how they fit in with modern, secular societies.
Children are still free to attend Sunday schools, or teachings at Mosques, Temples or wherever outside school hours though, and of course there should be no restrictions on religion being practised and taught at home out with school.
All places of religious worship should require a license, but that license should be free of charge, with no restrictions on it being granted other than conditions which ban the teaching of violent extremism, the promotion of terrorism or terrorist groups and the banning of any extremist preacher who promotes such ideology. Not only would that mean a ban on hardline Islamic preachers though, but it would also probably mean a ban on US Evangelical preachers who promote intolerance towards homosexuals for example.
The media need to start providing much more of a voice to those moderate Imams and leaders who denounce extremism. We have started to see a few more of them on TV and in the press recently, and that is to be welcomed. Many Mosques run discussions and courses on how to try and turn people away from extremism, but often these stories never reach the national press. Generally they don't even make the local press, although they sometimes do so. We need to hear a lot more about them.
These Imams, Community Leaders and our security forces and government must get a handle on the propaganda war, which they are currently losing. These Imams, if they do not already do so, need to establish strong links with other faiths and places of worship such as Churches, Temples etc. The various religious leaders should hold regular discussions with each other's congregations, again with an emphasis on what binds them, on what they have in common rather than concentrating on their differences. Examine and discuss their common heritage and their common values, including how they fit in with and can be part of modern Britain.
Our special forces need to infiltrate these extremist groups, especially Isis. To root out and positively identify any British citizen involved. If that means putting themselves in danger by going undercover then so be it. Any British born citizen identified as an Isis member should have their details circulated to every port of entry, and be immediately arrested on their return and tried in a court of law. If they are found to have been involved in these atrocities they need to be tried appropriately, for murder for example, and sentenced to a whole life tariff if found guilty. For lesser crimes, such as the promotion of Isis, or just being a member, they should if guilty, be jailed for an appropriate time and be placed on the anti terrorist watchlist for a long period on their release. Any British citizen who is an immigrant granted citizenship should be stripped of their citizenship and immediately deported to their country of origin on their release, with their details passed to that country's security forces to monitor.
The media should stop talking about Isis as just the Islamic State. Place major emphasis on them being a Sunni group, that their targets are Christians, Yazidis, Kurdish Muslims and Shia Muslims. Isis try not to talk about the Kurds and the Shia as Muslims at all, we need to counter that so Muslims here, if they are not already aware, know full well Isis are a Sunni sectarian extremist movement.
The internet is full of crap, bile, threats etc, because it is easy to do sat in comfort. Very few are going to go any further though, because it takes a bit of effort.
Those that are going to act in this way don't need the internet to inspire them, not the likes of the triviality of twitter etc anyway.
Very few do take it further, then they grow and a few more take it further...
Finding a group they can belong to while having an outlet at the anger of the things said against them, especially since 9/11 is a potent mix. We are alienating these guys, we're making the recruitment nice and easy.
That's all well and good until the legal system you seem to rely on and trust in so much is replaced with a different one.
That's what some of us are so concerned about. You cannot assume things will remain the same as they have always been.
You keep taking one point and then linking it to some unrelated point that I was not discussing. As I keep saying, I would oppose the introduction of Sharia (or any other religious based law, or reversion to older conservative laws). I was talking about how it is now, not some distopian future.
The media should stop talking about Isis as just the Islamic State. Place major emphasis on them being a Sunni group, that their targets are Christians, Yazidis, Kurdish Muslims and Shia Muslims. Isis try not to talk about the Kurds and the Shia as Muslims at all, we need to counter that so Muslims here, if they are not already aware, know full well Isis are a Sunni sectarian extremist movement.
You realise they beheaded hundreds of Sunni Arab Syrians who were against their ideology this last week? It's not a Sunni thing, it's a fascist psychotic ideology, past worshipping & glorifying precisely in the style of Nazism.
You realise they beheaded hundreds of Sunni Arab Syrians who were against their ideology this last week? It's not a Sunni thing, it's a fascist psychotic ideology, past worshipping & glorifying precisely in the style of Nazism.
I don't even think they would be happy with their "Islamic State" once they had it. I think it is more about the endless, violent struggle to further it with them.
Very few do take it further, then they grow and a few more take it further...
Finding a group they can belong to while having an outlet at the anger of the things said against them, especially since 9/11 is a potent mix. We are alienating these guys, we're making the recruitment nice and easy.
The majority of muslims have slotted into the lifestyle here, which is why they should want to come here.
Those that don't want a western lifestyle, and stay in gangs complaining about western ways, and what is happening in their true homelands are a different, and dangerous breed.
They don't need an excuse to support, or get involved in such stuff, but they use these things as an excuse. Then it all becomes our fault again.
Well that would depend on what that firm action is I guess.
Personally, as I've posted before, I want to see an end to religious mainstream schools. Schools should be all inclusive, not be run along religious grounds and be entirely secular all following the same curriculum or following curriculum approved by the Department for Education. There should be a complete ban on foreign curriculum, especially when those curriculum come from countries such as Saudi Arabia. The promotion and teaching of Wahhabism in schools should be banned.
Religious Education should still be taught, but it should look at all of the major religions, their contributions to history and culture and all be given equal prominence. The lessons should place more of an effort in examining their similarities, what they have in common and how they fit in with modern, secular societies.
Children are still free to attend Sunday schools, or teachings at Mosques, Temples or wherever outside school hours though, and of course there should be no restrictions on religion being practised and taught at home out with school.
All places of religious worship should require a license, but that license should be free of charge, with no restrictions on it being granted other than conditions which ban the teaching of violent extremism, the promotion of terrorism or terrorist groups and the banning of any extremist preacher who promotes such ideology. Not only would that mean a ban on hardline Islamic preachers though, but it would also probably mean a ban on US Evangelical preachers who promote intolerance towards homosexuals for example.
The media need to start providing much more of a voice to those moderate Imams and leaders who denounce extremism. We have started to see a few more of them on TV and in the press recently, and that is to be welcomed. Many Mosques run discussions and courses on how to try and turn people away from extremism, but often these stories never reach the national press. Generally they don't even make the local press, although they sometimes do so. We need to hear a lot more about them.
These Imams, Community Leaders and our security forces and government must get a handle on the propaganda war, which they are currently losing. These Imams, if they do not already do so, need to establish strong links with other faiths and places of worship such as Churches, Temples etc. The various religious leaders should hold regular discussions with each other's congregations, again with an emphasis on what binds them, on what they have in common rather than concentrating on their differences. Examine and discuss their common heritage and their common values, including how they fit in with and can be part of modern Britain.
Our special forces need to infiltrate these extremist groups, especially Isis. To root out and positively identify any British citizen involved. If that means putting themselves in danger by going undercover then so be it. Any British born citizen identified as an Isis member should have their details circulated to every port of entry, and be immediately arrested on their return and tried in a court of law. If they are found to have been involved in these atrocities they need to be tried appropriately, for murder for example, and sentenced to a whole life tariff if found guilty. For lesser crimes, such as the promotion of Isis, or just being a member, they should if guilty, be jailed for an appropriate time and be placed on the anti terrorist watchlist for a long period on their release. Any British citizen who is an immigrant granted citizenship should be stripped of their citizenship and immediately deported to their country of origin on their release, with their details passed to that country's security forces to monitor.
The media should stop talking about Isis as just the Islamic State. Place major emphasis on them being a Sunni group, that their targets are Christians, Yazidis, Kurdish Muslims and Shia Muslims. Isis try not to talk about the Kurds and the Shia as Muslims at all, we need to counter that so Muslims here, if they are not already aware, know full well Isis are a Sunni sectarian extremist movement.
The majority of muslims have slotted into the lifestyle here, which is why they should want to come here.
Those that don't want a western lifestyle, and stay in gangs complaining about western ways, and what is happening in their true homelands are a different, and dangerous breed.
They don't need an excuse to support, or get involved in such stuff, but they use these things as an excuse. Then it all becomes our fault again.
Not true. Many of these recruits are British born and bred.
You realise they beheaded hundreds of Sunni Arab Syrians who were against their ideology this last week? It's not a Sunni thing, it's a fascist psychotic ideology, past worshipping & glorifying precisely in the style of Nazism.
Absolutely, their enemy is anyone who does not follow their ideology. They are, or were, a Sunni Extremist, Sectarian Militia but their targets are certainly anyone who does not want to follow their hard-line ideology.
I don't even think they would be happy with their "Islamic State" once they had it. I think it is more about the endless, violent struggle to further it with them.
Yep.
Even if they got what they wanted, and were allowed to set up some kind of Hardline Wahhabist influenced state I doubt very much they would just stop there.
Not true. Many of these recruits are British born and bred.
And many are middle-class and well educated too - the reasons why some young Muslims take such extreme views is what needs to be addressed. I was just watching the news and one chap said that some of these ISIS fighters don't go to Syria/Iraq to fight at all, but to do humanitarian work, but are being radicalised while out there. That happened in other places too - where some young people went to Spain in the 1930s (on both sides) to help the victims of the Civil War and ended up fighting in it. What is it about some young people that they are 'idealistic' but open to the kind of indoctrination that can brutalise them.
Even if they got what they wanted, and were allowed to set up some kind of Hardline Wahhabist influenced state I doubt very much they would just stop there.
Quite.
They'd soon be on the lookout for Lebensraum, wouldn't they?
And many are middle-class and well educated too - the reasons why some young Muslims take such extreme views is what needs to be addressed. I was just watching the news and one chap said that some of these ISIS fighters don't go to Syria/Iraq to fight at all, but to do humanitarian work, but are being radicalised while out there. That happened in other places too - where some young people went to Spain in the 1930s (on both sides) to help the victims of the Civil War and ended up fighting in it. What is it about some young people that they are 'idealistic' but open to the kind of indoctrination that can brutalise them.
They're young and they're *****.
I studied politics as a degree course - at one time I espoused Trotskyism and his creed of perpetual revolution......:D
One of the interesting themes among those Muslims who want Sharia Law is that they see UK society has having lost the values it had in the past. An ironic reflection of views of the very people who seem to oppose Muslim culture so much.
Ah yes, British values that we've lost - like stoning women to death for adultery and making them cover up from head to toe etc.
It's all these people coming into our country en masse with their third world values that have changed British values for the worse. I blame Tony Blair.
But they should still have freedom to expressed those views.
I draw the line at incitement - not imagined influence but when it actually puts a person or people in danger. But then again I really am a liberal.
Isn't the Koran all about " casting the heads off of disbelievers " . The Koran justifies and incites violence repeatedly towards non believers . To be honest , it should be banned .
Comments
It's just so unlikely to happen though, that it doesn't seem worth worrying about.
Excellent post. I'd vote for you.
Very few do take it further, then they grow and a few more take it further...
Finding a group they can belong to while having an outlet at the anger of the things said against them, especially since 9/11 is a potent mix. We are alienating these guys, we're making the recruitment nice and easy.
You keep taking one point and then linking it to some unrelated point that I was not discussing. As I keep saying, I would oppose the introduction of Sharia (or any other religious based law, or reversion to older conservative laws). I was talking about how it is now, not some distopian future.
Lol, sounds very familiar
There have been enough of them saying they are joining in with what happens to avenge what the west has done. Where is the fabrication?
You're quite right, It isn't worth worrying about, it will never happen in this country,
I don't even think they would be happy with their "Islamic State" once they had it. I think it is more about the endless, violent struggle to further it with them.
The majority of muslims have slotted into the lifestyle here, which is why they should want to come here.
Those that don't want a western lifestyle, and stay in gangs complaining about western ways, and what is happening in their true homelands are a different, and dangerous breed.
They don't need an excuse to support, or get involved in such stuff, but they use these things as an excuse. Then it all becomes our fault again.
I think I love you.
Not true. Many of these recruits are British born and bred.
Muhammad.
Weird, I seem to remember being told in no uncertain terms that regime change WASN'T the goal. Until it was.
Absolutely, their enemy is anyone who does not follow their ideology. They are, or were, a Sunni Extremist, Sectarian Militia but their targets are certainly anyone who does not want to follow their hard-line ideology.
Yep.
Even if they got what they wanted, and were allowed to set up some kind of Hardline Wahhabist influenced state I doubt very much they would just stop there.
And many are middle-class and well educated too - the reasons why some young Muslims take such extreme views is what needs to be addressed. I was just watching the news and one chap said that some of these ISIS fighters don't go to Syria/Iraq to fight at all, but to do humanitarian work, but are being radicalised while out there. That happened in other places too - where some young people went to Spain in the 1930s (on both sides) to help the victims of the Civil War and ended up fighting in it. What is it about some young people that they are 'idealistic' but open to the kind of indoctrination that can brutalise them.
Quite.
They'd soon be on the lookout for Lebensraum, wouldn't they?
if you look at the population figures and birth rate I think you would say
Never say never .
They're young and they're *****.
I studied politics as a degree course - at one time I espoused Trotskyism and his creed of perpetual revolution......
You did it again. ;-)
Good always overcomes evil in the end, always.:)
Ah yes, British values that we've lost - like stoning women to death for adultery and making them cover up from head to toe etc.
It's all these people coming into our country en masse with their third world values that have changed British values for the worse. I blame Tony Blair.
Isn't the Koran all about " casting the heads off of disbelievers " . The Koran justifies and incites violence repeatedly towards non believers . To be honest , it should be banned .