I posted last week (posts 4155, 4157, 4162) that in my view both Sky and BT have been getting some poor ratings for club rugby.
So in fairness should report that Sky got 460,000 for the Heineken Cup Final - significantly more than double what they got for the Heineken semis (192,000 and 188,000). Sure, you expect the final to rate higher but that still seems like an unexpected variation to me.
BT got 182,000 and 105,000 for the Aviva semis so will be interesting to see if they too can show a good leap for the Aviva final.
Sky's 2nd leg of the Champions Cup Play-off (to decide the last qualification spot for next season) got 106,000; BT's 1st leg of the same tie got 72,000 the previous week.
Initially BT's figures for rugby were considered pretty good, perhaps they haven't pushed on in the last 6 months compared to the EPL, possibly because club rugby fans signed up early?
In terms of viewing hours club rugby has been more watched this season than any other, due to all live games being on a "major" broadcaster.
In terms of value for money to BT, I guess it could look on the expensive side, however it is not a massive segment of the total budget, and many weeks would look pretty bare without the 120k or so that the two biggest rugby games bring in.
Also Rugby tonight has usually been the most viewed non-live show on BT in the weeks it is shown.
I don't think BT won it. They probably just wanted something in the summer and as espn had it last year they just carried it on from them.
Their press release says they "secured a deal" so presumably there was some sort of competition.
It also looks as if they're making a bit more of an effort to bring their own coverage to it this year, according to the press release Graeme Swann will be one of their commentators.
Playing a role in BT Sport’s coverage will be the Ashes-winning former England off-spinner Graeme Swann, who will form part of the commentary team on BT Sport, which will bring fans live TV coverage – in prime time - of all thirty matches in the tournament (which runs from 11 July until 16 August). Additionally, each match will be repeated as a one-hour highlights show throughout the tournament.
BT Sport’s live TV coverage will commence on 11 July at 7pm on BT Sport 2 with coverage of the opening clash between Amazon Warriors and Hawksbills in Grenada.
Their press release says they "secured a deal" so presumably there was some sort of competition.
It also looks as if they're making a bit more of an effort to bring their own coverage to it this year, according to the press release Graeme Swann will be one of their commentators.
I'm going to suggest he'll co-present coverage from London for BT to link to ground, as with ITV4 and IPL and Sky with Southern Hemisphere rugby etc (rather than "form part of the commentary team"). And that the press release is inaccurately phrased?
Presumably IMG/host feed provides in stadium English lang comms, like last year, so why on earth would BT try to cobble together one of their own commentary teams? And if they are going to do that using monitors in London then surely that's a dead duck idea? Having said that they are using their own off-tube commentator on and off with MLS and Brasileiro instead of the local/international feed commentators provided with the coverage. Not fussed on that idea myself. No disrespect to the freelancers who take it but I'd sooner hear the local broadcast team in the stadium then one commentator 4,000 miles away looking at the same pictures off screen that I am...
Swann must be lined up for bracketing studio coverage for BT not to commentate as such.
As much as I'd like Neville to be a pundit on the CL coverage (as a Liverpool fan saying this kind of thing still seems strange!) I think they'd be very lucky indeed to get him.
I imagine Sky know how highly rated he is and will do all they can to keep him. I assume broadcasters can put non-compete clauses in contracts? I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like that if it's possible.
As much as I'd like Neville to be a pundit on the CL coverage (as a Liverpool fan saying this kind of thing still seems strange!) I think they'd be very lucky indeed to get him.
I imagine Sky know how highly rated he is and will do all they can to keep him. I assume broadcasters can put non-compete clauses in contracts? I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like that if it's possible.
BiB
They can, but id be astonished if his agent & lawyer would allow it.
Is it not the case that BARB still do not count internet viewers? If so surely BT sport is under reported compared to other channels (inc. Sky) simply because of the way the package was sold and promoted as an add on to broadband. Am I missing something here?
Given the ratings over the season any less than 225K would be a disappointment.
157K. Guess they will be disappointed!
BT Sport 1
w/e 1 Jun 2014
000's
1 AVIVA PREMIERSHIP RUGBY (SAT 1400) 157
2 TOP 14 RUGBY (SAT 1931) 77
3 INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY (TUE 1957) 33
4 TOULON TOURNAMENT (WED 1817) 32
5 TOULON TOURNAMENT (MON 1802) 32
6 THE CLARE BALDING SHOW (SAT 1800) 26
7 TOULON TOURNAMENT (SUN 1445) 23
8 INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY (SUN 1945) 20
9 TOULON TOURNAMENT (FRI 1825) 19
10 INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY (MON 1028) 18
BT Sport 1
w/e 1 Jun 2014
000's
1 AVIVA PREMIERSHIP RUGBY (SAT 1400) 157
2 TOP 14 RUGBY (SAT 1931) 77
3 INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY (TUE 1957) 33
4 TOULON TOURNAMENT (WED 1817) 32
5 TOULON TOURNAMENT (MON 1802) 32
6 THE CLARE BALDING SHOW (SAT 1800) 26
7 TOULON TOURNAMENT (SUN 1445) 23
8 INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY (SUN 1945) 20
9 TOULON TOURNAMENT (FRI 1825) 19
10 INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY (MON 1028) 18
I think that 157K is REALLY bad. I'm sure there are regular season games that got more than that, and a lot that were quite close. Maybe I'm overestimating the appeal of the playoffs/finals in general.
What makes it even more strange is the Top 14 final getting a very respectable 77k.
I think that 157K is REALLY bad. I'm sure there are regular season games that got more than that, and a lot that were quite close. Maybe I'm overestimating the appeal of the playoffs/finals in general.
What makes it even more strange is the Top 14 final getting a very respectable 77k.
From memory there were several regular season games which got well over 157k - indeed a number got over 200k. But the vast majority of these had a PL lead-in - ie they followed on from BT's Sat 12.45pm PL game.
The PL lead-in obviously makes a very substantial difference - indeed we saw Tom Watt documentaries rating far, far better in that slot than they would at any other time.
I'm afraid the harsh truth appears to be that the audience for club rugby is pretty limited. BT has trumpeted the increase in the Aviva ratings vs last season but 60% of the games last season were on ESPN and we know BT's PL ratings are substantially higher than ESPN's despite BT having a worse PL timeslot - reflecting BT's much higher reach and profile compared to ESPN.
And in previous seasons the Aviva was not getting a PL lead-in on either ESPN or Sky.
I'm afraid the harsh truth appears to be that the audience for club rugby is pretty limited. BT has trumpeted the increase in the Aviva ratings vs last season but 60% of the games last season were on ESPN and we know BT's PL ratings are substantially higher than ESPN's despite BT having a worse PL timeslot - reflecting BT's much higher reach and profile compared to ESPN.
As a Rugby fan I think it would be disingenuous of me to pretend otherwise. It's certainly nice to see many games averaging over 100k, but the total reach is limited.
I still find the Top 14 figure strangely high, given the disappointing Aviva figure. Of course it was Jonny Wilkinson's last ever game, but not sure this would bring in that many more casual fans.
Sorry to repeat myself mlt11, but as I respect your opinion I wondered what you thought of my below comment (which obviously applies to all BT sport output):
Is it not the case that BARB still do not count internet viewers? If so surely BT sport is under reported compared to other channels (inc. Sky) simply because of the way the package was sold and promoted as an add on to broadband. Am I missing something here?
From memory there were several regular season games which got well over 157k - indeed a number got over 200k. But the vast majority of these had a PL lead-in - ie they followed on from BT's Sat 12.45pm PL game.
The PL lead-in obviously makes a very substantial difference - indeed we saw Tom Watt documentaries rating far, far better in that slot than they would at any other time.
I'm afraid the harsh truth appears to be that the audience for club rugby is pretty limited. BT has trumpeted the increase in the Aviva ratings vs last season but 60% of the games last season were on ESPN and we know BT's PL ratings are substantially higher than ESPN's despite BT having a worse PL timeslot - reflecting BT's much higher reach and profile compared to ESPN.
And in previous seasons the Aviva was not getting a PL lead-in on either ESPN or Sky.
Of the games reported by BARB (only 3 wern't) 5 had over 200K. 2 of those were on a free weekend.
BT trumpeting of improved audiences for the AP was somewhat disingenuous, as they were talking about the ESPN audience and not SKY's, when quoting "massive" increases.
This year BT have averaged 107K for all the reported AP games.
ESPN got 49/50K for their last 3 seasons.
In 12/13 SKY got 147K for the 16 games that made BARB's top 10s. If you factor in the 7 games that didn't it's probably around 130K.
Of the games reported by BARB (only 3 wern't) 5 had over 200K. 2 of those were on a free weekend.
BT trumpeting of improved audiences for the AP was somewhat disingenuous, as they were talking about the ESPN audience and not SKY's, when quoting "massive" increases.
This year BT have averaged 107K for all the reported AP games.
ESPN got 49/50K for their last 3 seasons.
In 12/13 SKY got 147K for the 16 games that made BARB's top 10s. If you factor in the 7 games that didn't it's probably around 130K.
OK, thanks for those stats.
Can you split out the BT average of 107k into two figures - ie average with PL lead-in and average without PL lead-in.
In terms of the comparison with SS I think on a like for like basis Aviva games would rate higher on SS - SS has a bigger reach plus all SS homes have someone willing to pay for the channel whereas some BTS homes are VM XL which may not have anyone interested in sport.
OK, rugby union is the major sport where BTS has the strongest relative position but I think SS's rugby union portfolio is still strong enough that few hardcore rugby union fans would have cancelled it, notwithstanding BTS's Aviva contract.
Comparing Heineken ratings on Sky with Aviva on BT this season also supports that.
I still find the Top 14 figure strangely high, given the disappointing Aviva figure. Of course it was Jonny Wilkinson's last ever game, but not sure this would bring in that many more casual fans.
Agreed - Top 14 figure at first glance appears relatively high in context of Aviva figure. I think reasons would be:
1) Low Aviva figure implies low % of casuals watching Aviva which implies high % of Aviva audience would have been interested in Top 14.
2) Aviva provided lead-in - OK there was a 2 hour gap but Top 14 was heavily promoted during Aviva so many may have watched because of Aviva.
Sorry to repeat myself mlt11, but as I respect your opinion I wondered what you thought of my below comment (which obviously applies to all BT sport output):
Yes, that's a valid point re internet viewers.
We can't quantify it precisely but all I would say is that OFCOM / BARB data suggests the amount of internet viewing of TV as a whole is still very small. However it is true that BTS is likely to have a much higher % of internet viewing than the average for all TV channels because of the way BTS is sold.
But in view of the low overall average for all TV channels it remains the case that even if internet viewing of BTS is double or treble the overall average % it would still not be enough to make a really substantial impact on ratings.
It's only a guess but in my view we are probably looking at BTS ratings generally being understated by maybe 10%. I think it's very unlikely that the figure would be as high as 20%.
Comments
So in fairness should report that Sky got 460,000 for the Heineken Cup Final - significantly more than double what they got for the Heineken semis (192,000 and 188,000). Sure, you expect the final to rate higher but that still seems like an unexpected variation to me.
BT got 182,000 and 105,000 for the Aviva semis so will be interesting to see if they too can show a good leap for the Aviva final.
Sky's 2nd leg of the Champions Cup Play-off (to decide the last qualification spot for next season) got 106,000; BT's 1st leg of the same tie got 72,000 the previous week.
In terms of viewing hours club rugby has been more watched this season than any other, due to all live games being on a "major" broadcaster.
In terms of value for money to BT, I guess it could look on the expensive side, however it is not a massive segment of the total budget, and many weeks would look pretty bare without the 120k or so that the two biggest rugby games bring in.
Also Rugby tonight has usually been the most viewed non-live show on BT in the weeks it is shown.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/news/a574881/bt-sport-lands-caribbean-t20-rights-graeme-swann-signs-up.html#~oG7phPPaXB9tbs
It also looks as if they're making a bit more of an effort to bring their own coverage to it this year, according to the press release Graeme Swann will be one of their commentators.
I'm going to suggest he'll co-present coverage from London for BT to link to ground, as with ITV4 and IPL and Sky with Southern Hemisphere rugby etc (rather than "form part of the commentary team"). And that the press release is inaccurately phrased?
Presumably IMG/host feed provides in stadium English lang comms, like last year, so why on earth would BT try to cobble together one of their own commentary teams? And if they are going to do that using monitors in London then surely that's a dead duck idea? Having said that they are using their own off-tube commentator on and off with MLS and Brasileiro instead of the local/international feed commentators provided with the coverage. Not fussed on that idea myself. No disrespect to the freelancers who take it but I'd sooner hear the local broadcast team in the stadium then one commentator 4,000 miles away looking at the same pictures off screen that I am...
Swann must be lined up for bracketing studio coverage for BT not to commentate as such.
They certainly weren't the only bidder, but the size of their chequebook wasn't the only reason they won.
Sounds like ITV were in for it as well?
Personally think they are both good signings. Especially Ian wright who I think does a good job when he is on tv.
Also BT looking to acquire the services of Gary Neville. For the champions league.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2648964/Gary-Neville-BT-Sports-prime-target-look-share-Sky-pundit-Champions-League.html
I imagine Sky know how highly rated he is and will do all they can to keep him. I assume broadcasters can put non-compete clauses in contracts? I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like that if it's possible.
BiB
They can, but id be astonished if his agent & lawyer would allow it.
157K. Guess they will be disappointed!
BT Sport 1
w/e 1 Jun 2014
000's
1 AVIVA PREMIERSHIP RUGBY (SAT 1400) 157
2 TOP 14 RUGBY (SAT 1931) 77
3 INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY (TUE 1957) 33
4 TOULON TOURNAMENT (WED 1817) 32
5 TOULON TOURNAMENT (MON 1802) 32
6 THE CLARE BALDING SHOW (SAT 1800) 26
7 TOULON TOURNAMENT (SUN 1445) 23
8 INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY (SUN 1945) 20
9 TOULON TOURNAMENT (FRI 1825) 19
10 INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY (MON 1028) 18
BT Sport 2
w/e 1 Jun 2014
000's
1 MOTOGP 2014 (SUN 1247) 189
2 MOTOGP 2014 (SUN 1110) 90
3 MOTOGP 2014 (SUN 0930) 62
4 INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY (SUN 1925) 47
5 MOTOGP 2014 (SAT 1100) 39
6 UFC (SAT 2500) 39
7 BOXING TONIGHT (TUE 2230) 37
8 MOTOGP 2014 (SAT 0800) 31
9 1-WORLD OF ATHLETICS (THU 1431) 25
10 UFC (SAT 2000) 24
I think that 157K is REALLY bad. I'm sure there are regular season games that got more than that, and a lot that were quite close. Maybe I'm overestimating the appeal of the playoffs/finals in general.
What makes it even more strange is the Top 14 final getting a very respectable 77k.
From memory there were several regular season games which got well over 157k - indeed a number got over 200k. But the vast majority of these had a PL lead-in - ie they followed on from BT's Sat 12.45pm PL game.
The PL lead-in obviously makes a very substantial difference - indeed we saw Tom Watt documentaries rating far, far better in that slot than they would at any other time.
I'm afraid the harsh truth appears to be that the audience for club rugby is pretty limited. BT has trumpeted the increase in the Aviva ratings vs last season but 60% of the games last season were on ESPN and we know BT's PL ratings are substantially higher than ESPN's despite BT having a worse PL timeslot - reflecting BT's much higher reach and profile compared to ESPN.
And in previous seasons the Aviva was not getting a PL lead-in on either ESPN or Sky.
As a Rugby fan I think it would be disingenuous of me to pretend otherwise. It's certainly nice to see many games averaging over 100k, but the total reach is limited.
I still find the Top 14 figure strangely high, given the disappointing Aviva figure. Of course it was Jonny Wilkinson's last ever game, but not sure this would bring in that many more casual fans.
Sorry to repeat myself mlt11, but as I respect your opinion I wondered what you thought of my below comment (which obviously applies to all BT sport output):
Of the games reported by BARB (only 3 wern't) 5 had over 200K. 2 of those were on a free weekend.
BT trumpeting of improved audiences for the AP was somewhat disingenuous, as they were talking about the ESPN audience and not SKY's, when quoting "massive" increases.
This year BT have averaged 107K for all the reported AP games.
ESPN got 49/50K for their last 3 seasons.
In 12/13 SKY got 147K for the 16 games that made BARB's top 10s. If you factor in the 7 games that didn't it's probably around 130K.
OK, thanks for those stats.
Can you split out the BT average of 107k into two figures - ie average with PL lead-in and average without PL lead-in.
In terms of the comparison with SS I think on a like for like basis Aviva games would rate higher on SS - SS has a bigger reach plus all SS homes have someone willing to pay for the channel whereas some BTS homes are VM XL which may not have anyone interested in sport.
OK, rugby union is the major sport where BTS has the strongest relative position but I think SS's rugby union portfolio is still strong enough that few hardcore rugby union fans would have cancelled it, notwithstanding BTS's Aviva contract.
Comparing Heineken ratings on Sky with Aviva on BT this season also supports that.
Agreed - Top 14 figure at first glance appears relatively high in context of Aviva figure. I think reasons would be:
1) Low Aviva figure implies low % of casuals watching Aviva which implies high % of Aviva audience would have been interested in Top 14.
2) Aviva provided lead-in - OK there was a 2 hour gap but Top 14 was heavily promoted during Aviva so many may have watched because of Aviva.
3) Wilkinson factor.
Yes, that's a valid point re internet viewers.
We can't quantify it precisely but all I would say is that OFCOM / BARB data suggests the amount of internet viewing of TV as a whole is still very small. However it is true that BTS is likely to have a much higher % of internet viewing than the average for all TV channels because of the way BTS is sold.
But in view of the low overall average for all TV channels it remains the case that even if internet viewing of BTS is double or treble the overall average % it would still not be enough to make a really substantial impact on ratings.
It's only a guess but in my view we are probably looking at BTS ratings generally being understated by maybe 10%. I think it's very unlikely that the figure would be as high as 20%.
The average for Saturday games on BTS1 was 140.3K
The average for those games with a PL lead-in was 151.9K
So not a huge difference.
FYI, here they are. * are the PL lead-in games.
82
116
162 *
136 *
174 *
173 *
217 *
95 *
104 *
70 *
219 *
119
204
45
120
205 *
151 *
116 *
137 *
168 *
153
105
157
sky sports 5 is not really a threat apart from spanish football, champions league and euro 2016 qualifiers