A lot of franchises are now management contracts with no financial risk to the franchisee
Agree.
What exactly do franchises invest in?
Certainly not track and infrastructure, this is pay for out of Government funds. Current advertising seen at Railway stations insists "The greatest investment in over 100 years" with a figure of £9.4 billion quoted. What have franchises contributed towards this investment? Nowt!
Even then franchises affected by engineering work that will improve services in the future are entitled to claim compensation from Network Rail for delays caused.
Trains themselves? New rolling stock is "underwritten by the Government".
Profits are kept by the Franchises but losses are wiped out by subsidies from the Government.
The franchises can come to their end without being awarded to any other company, therefore it goes back into public hands for free minus all the subsidies we've been forced to give to these private companies over the years.
Exactly, my original opening post suggested this.
By allowing a gradual return of train operating from private franchise to Public when franchises expire does not cost us money to buy out contracts.
What I do not want to see is the Tories spitefully re-tendering numerous franchises on long term contracts before the election.
It really does beggar belief that despite overwhelming public support the Tories and even Labour do not support the running of trains back to public ownership.
So why hasn't the EU insisted this happens in other EU countries just the UK?
If memory serves they do not insist on ownership of track and rolling stock be separate - but that the track is open to third parties.
So Virgin or example could own the East Coast line and run it's trains, but if some company say ACME Rail Transport wanted to run trains on that track under EU law Virgin could not stop it.
It really does beggar belief that despite overwhelming public support the Tories and even Labour do not support the running of trains back to public ownership.
Under private franchises, tickets prices are as much as flying to America sometimes! Its high time the franchises were allowed to lapse and bring it back under public control and despite Ed Balls being embarrassed of British Rail, bring it back!
I think you may be comparing apples with oranges. You may be comparing flexible long-distance rail fares with advance inflexible air fares.
The franchises can come to their end without being awarded to any other company, therefore it goes back into public hands for free minus all the subsidies we've been forced to give to these private companies over the years.
Some commuter and local stopping services would still require a subsidy irrespective of whether ron by BR/DOR or a private operator.
Although most current franchises expire by 2021, I think MerseyRail (tendered by MerseyTravel rather than the government) has its current franchise with Serco/ Abellio until 2028.
The fact remains that under Nationalisation we saw a 4 decade reduction in passenger numbers - this only changed after privatisation. Absurd it may be but it is also historical fact.
The fact that car ownership expanded massively in the decades following nationalization presumably has nothing to do with this?
The private operators are handicapped by having to pay billions in franchise payments to the government.
And how do they recoup these payments? By charging ridiculous fares, which are generally at least twice those in Germany and France, and often over five times those in countries like Italy.
The issue of fare prices is not that obvious. Season tickets are either at or just below the rate of inflation. Commuter fairs are capped which they were not under BR
It is other fares which have risen more - but then if I am doing that kind of thing I go for advance fares which are cheaper.
The advance fares argument is a poor one IMHO. The number on offer is severely restricted, and exists purely to mop up the unsold tickets for seats which could not be filled at the extortionate "normal" prices.
Surely the major attraction of any railway system like ours ought to be its flexibility, and the ability to buy tickets on a "turn up and go" basis. In the 1970s I regularly used to buy tickets from Manchester to London by this method, despite being in my 20s and in a low-paying job. With the basic standard class return ticket priced at almost £300, this is now not an option, despite the fact that I am financially a lot better off.
It should be noted, by the way, that cheaper advance fares were also available in the BR era, under the Apex and Super Apex system.
The fact that car ownership expanded massively in the decades following nationalization presumably has nothing to do with this?
could have a lot to do with it - perhaps one of the drivers of the expansion was the poor unreliable service from BR?
My father was a commuter from Essex into central London throughout the 60's and 70's and the unreliable service on the Essex commuter lines is what made him first change to using a motorbike and then a car.
Comments
Yes, another 'benefit' of EU membership....
Why do we pay for new roads?
Surely the motorist could pay for them all...
Surely given all the taxes on ownership and fuel they already do?
Road Spending a mere Third of Motor Tax
Agree.
What exactly do franchises invest in?
Certainly not track and infrastructure, this is pay for out of Government funds. Current advertising seen at Railway stations insists "The greatest investment in over 100 years" with a figure of £9.4 billion quoted. What have franchises contributed towards this investment? Nowt!
Even then franchises affected by engineering work that will improve services in the future are entitled to claim compensation from Network Rail for delays caused.
Trains themselves? New rolling stock is "underwritten by the Government".
Profits are kept by the Franchises but losses are wiped out by subsidies from the Government.
So why hasn't the EU insisted this happens in other EU countries just the UK?
Exactly, my original opening post suggested this.
By allowing a gradual return of train operating from private franchise to Public when franchises expire does not cost us money to buy out contracts.
What I do not want to see is the Tories spitefully re-tendering numerous franchises on long term contracts before the election.
It really does beggar belief that despite overwhelming public support the Tories and even Labour do not support the running of trains back to public ownership.
If memory serves they do not insist on ownership of track and rolling stock be separate - but that the track is open to third parties.
So Virgin or example could own the East Coast line and run it's trains, but if some company say ACME Rail Transport wanted to run trains on that track under EU law Virgin could not stop it.
Perhaps that tells you something?
Yes, both are as bad as each other.
I think you may be comparing apples with oranges. You may be comparing flexible long-distance rail fares with advance inflexible air fares.
Some commuter and local stopping services would still require a subsidy irrespective of whether ron by BR/DOR or a private operator.
Although most current franchises expire by 2021, I think MerseyRail (tendered by MerseyTravel rather than the government) has its current franchise with Serco/ Abellio until 2028.
The fact that car ownership expanded massively in the decades following nationalization presumably has nothing to do with this?
And how do they recoup these payments? By charging ridiculous fares, which are generally at least twice those in Germany and France, and often over five times those in countries like Italy.
The advance fares argument is a poor one IMHO. The number on offer is severely restricted, and exists purely to mop up the unsold tickets for seats which could not be filled at the extortionate "normal" prices.
Surely the major attraction of any railway system like ours ought to be its flexibility, and the ability to buy tickets on a "turn up and go" basis. In the 1970s I regularly used to buy tickets from Manchester to London by this method, despite being in my 20s and in a low-paying job. With the basic standard class return ticket priced at almost £300, this is now not an option, despite the fact that I am financially a lot better off.
It should be noted, by the way, that cheaper advance fares were also available in the BR era, under the Apex and Super Apex system.
could have a lot to do with it - perhaps one of the drivers of the expansion was the poor unreliable service from BR?
My father was a commuter from Essex into central London throughout the 60's and 70's and the unreliable service on the Essex commuter lines is what made him first change to using a motorbike and then a car.