None of us were/are there, we can go only on the content of the OP and subsequent posts. Surely, where there are children concerned it is better to err on the side of caution rather than sit back and hope that its nothing. I think, Taglet, that is what you are saying.
So lets put it in context shall we.....my point about the recent serious case review and the current trial was in response to the suggestion that anyone who raises a concern (and do bear in mind I stated that after talking to the mum....lets hope things calm down) was a nosy parker.....in general!!
When you 'pull me up' on a post....you really do need to check to see why I posted it before jumping in and taking it completely out of context....as you say...its all there in black and white.
Which is where you jumped in.
Oh dear. The 'nosy parker' remark (which, I have to say, was harsh) was clearly posted in relation to the reaction to the OP, which is what we are discussing here, after all! I see nothing that suggests that it was aimed at anyone who ever raises a concern in general. That's your own (mis)interpretation. Your response to that was insulting and an overreaction. Overreacting is clearly your thing.
None of us were/are there, we can go only on the content of the OP and subsequent posts. Surely, where there are children concerned it is better to err on the side of caution rather than sit back and hope that its nothing. I think, Taglet, that is what you are saying.
Only the OP knows and its the OPs call!
Err on the side of caution, yes. Completely overreact to arguments that are occurring infrequently, no. I think that the most important thing, where children are concerned, is actually to think hard and use common sense before taking ANY action. Because any action you take could be very harmful indeed, whether you ignore it or report it. It's not an easy decision, granted - it's a very hard situation to be in.
Just because your views don't coincide with mine on this subject there is no need to resort to personal remarks....they don't aid the discussion.
I was saying you may be....not you are I don't know your background or your life experience you could have been raise in a gated community the ideal parents who never raise their voices and perfect siblings, however I still disagree with you as you only heard the adults if you had heard kids screaming or crying it would be a different matter
I'm not sure that social services has the level of staffing which would facilitate knocking on doors for every little row but there is a difference between something overheard which causes no concern and something which causes concern and only the OP can make that judgement call. Your own experiences and your interpretation of what the OP heard, felt and believed to be the case....complete with your little character assassination calling the OP naive and simplistic are all pretty irrelevant.....and you say I am 'milking it'. Seriously you couldn't make it up.
If the OP felt strongly enough about the situation to take the action that she did....then she was right.
No what I am saying which you don't seem to agree with is that some people shout and argue and yell it may not be ideal but it doesn't mean it is abuse or the precursor to abuse
I was saying you may be....not you are I don't know your background or your life experience you could have been raise in a gated community the ideal parents who never raise their voices and perfect siblings, however I still disagree with you as you only heard the adults if you had heard kids screaming or crying it would be a different matter
You said "because she is naïve and simplistic" no maybe about that...that's why I brought it up. I wouldn't have otherwise.
You said "because she is naïve and simplistic" no maybe about that...that's why I brought it up. I wouldn't have otherwise.
I used the term may but it was further back the sentence maybe there should have been an apostrophe or comma somewhere - the problem with the written word and communication via forum
I used the term may but it was further back the sentence maybe there should have been an apostrophe or comma somewhere - the problem with the written word and communication via forum
It was plain for all to see what you wrote and what I picked you up on.
I think you have to be in the situation and see and hear things for yourself before you can judge how serious it is. Tone is everything. Its not an easy one to call as you really dont know how dangerous the situation can potentially be. My emphasis would be on the children and whther you think THEY are at risk. Ive only encounted couples fighting with no kids but Im sure Id be far more concerned if they did have young children.
Sometimes these parents need a wake up call and a visit from authoritive figures can make them realise how damaging their behaviour is. Growing up with abusive fighting parents has a huge effect on your future relationships I think.
no. I think that the most important thing, where children are concerned, is actually to think hard and use common sense before taking ANY action.
Not too sure it was necessary to point this out tbh, surely no one unless it was for malicious reasons would simply call in the authorities on a whim! If someone calls social services I would reasonably assume it would be after weighing up the odds and if you are in anyway unsure of a childs safety, make the call!
Oh dear. The 'nosy parker' remark (which, I have to say, was harsh) was clearly posted in relation to the reaction to the OP, which is what we are discussing here, after all! I see nothing that suggests that it was aimed at anyone who ever raises a concern in general. That's your own (mis)interpretation. Your response to that was insulting and an overreaction. Overreacting is clearly your thing.
I really don't understand what your problem is....the post quoted mine so clearly referred to my post...I have reposted the entire conversation quote for quote. Have you got some wacky agenda going on?
Your first post to me was full of insults so dont you dare accuse me of overreacting...given the circumstances I think I have been very tolerant in the face of your continued provocation. Dont you have something important to do?
None of us were/are there, we can go only on the content of the OP and subsequent posts. Surely, where there are children concerned it is better to err on the side of caution rather than sit back and hope that its nothing. I think, Taglet, that is what you are saying.
Only the OP knows and its the OPs call!
Absolutely and I think the OP handled it really well....she didnt jump in but had a chat with the mum and in the circumstances I think that was a very brave thing to do. Most of us would ignore it or hide behind the shield of authority rather than do that she did.
No what I am saying which you don't seem to agree with is that some people shout and argue and yell it may not be ideal but it doesn't mean it is abuse or the precursor to abuse
Oh absolutely but the tricky bit is know which are which.....sounds like what the OP heard was sufficient to tip the balance towards concern and I dont think any of us who were not in her situation should criticize her actions.
I really don't understand what your problem is....the post quoted mine so clearly referred to my post...I have reposted the entire conversation quote for quote. Have you got some wacky agenda going on?
Your first post to me was full of insults so dont you dare accuse me of overreacting...given the circumstances I think I have been very tolerant in the face of your continued provocation. Dont you have something important to do?
I have no 'wacky agenda' nor any kind of problem, and yes, I do have more important things to do, and I'm sure you do too, so I think we had best just draw a line under this particular exchange and move on.
Oh absolutely but the tricky bit is know which are which.....sounds like what the OP heard was sufficient to tip the balance towards concern and I dont think any of us who were not in her situation should criticize her actions.
No one is critiquing the op. She asked if she SHOULD call social services. We gave our opinions. The overwhelming opinion, based upon the opening post was no. It's a row. It had swearing in it - big whoop. We all swear. Something smashed - do we have any evidence that was something thrown at someone? No. I've thrown my exs MacBook out the window before was that enough for someone to think he was hitting me? No. It was temper.
Oh and "social services are called to every police reported domestic involving children"? I call bull. My old neighbours ended up in a full brawl with a kids present, social were not called (even though mum was arrested). How do I know? Because the little girl stayed with us until dad was back from the hospital and we were kept updated.
Let's be sensible. The couple are rowing every few months, it's a big blow out and it's over. They are sensible in having one of them leave the house for a while. Even the mum goes outside to calm down. Yes she's upset - aren't we all when we have a fight?
If the op is concerned again, my suggestion would be to write down the time, duration and date of the fight, then the same for the next one etc, then she'll have something to present to so if she is seeing them get longer, or closer together.
Oh and "social services are called to every police reported domestic involving children"? I call bull. My old neighbours ended up in a full brawl with a kids present, social were not called (even though mum was arrested). How do I know? Because the little girl stayed with us until dad was back from the hospital and we were kept updated.
When the police are called out to domestic incidents between parents which are witnessed by children, there is an automatic referral made to social services
I think you have to be in the situation and see and hear things for yourself before you can judge how serious it is. Tone is everything. Its not an easy one to call as you really dont know how dangerous the situation can potentially be. My emphasis would be on the children and whther you think THEY are at risk. Ive only encounted couples fighting with no kids but Im sure Id be far more concerned if they did have young children.
Sometimes these parents need a wake up call and a visit from authoritive figures can make them realise how damaging their behaviour is. Growing up with abusive fighting parents has a huge effect on your future relationships I think.
Yes it has a huge effect and is very traumatic for kids and sets the tone for any future relationships they have.. What the Op is listening to is verbal/emotional abuse, lack of control and intimidation, as in throwing things. What kind of example is this to kids, in how to communicate and conduct a relationship, its an awful example.:eek: That man should be ashamed of his lack of control over his anger and behaviour.
Why should kids have to cover their ears or put up music to drown out abuse in their own home. Disgusting.
No its not normal for mature adults to behave like this, if a child behaved like this you would correct them. Why are people saying here, this is normal, its not.
Calling your wife and the kids mother an fing **** in front of them is appalling carry -on What an example to any sons watching in how to respect and treat women.
Grown adults don't insult ,scare their kids, tell their wife/husband to get out, reduce her to tears,throw stuff and intimidate, they discuss things rationally. If angry they remove themselves to calm down not shout, throw stuff, punch walls, and scream obscenities. They are not toddlers but supposedly mature adults with self control.
You are your kids role models don't forget.
Of course everyone has spats but when you abuse someone like this, terrify your kids and throw stuff, you have crossed the line. Next time OP phone that police line and inform them of what's going on . Those kids emotional health is at stake. They need to know this is wrong or maybe the girls could end up with a similar abuser themselves..
Verbal and emotional abuse if left unchecked graduates to physical abuse and the kids are being affected. If his shouting terrifies you next door, imagine being right there in the room.:(
Anyone who thinks this is normal or acceptable, needs to look in the mirror because it is not. Abuse of any kind is unacceptable and should not be tolerated.
Yes it has a huge effect and is very traumatic for kids and sets the tone for any future relationships they have.. What the Op is listening to is verbal/emotional abuse, lack of control and intimidation, as in throwing things. What kind of example is this to kids, in how to communicate and conduct a relationship, its an awful example.:eek: That man should be ashamed of his lack of control over his anger and behaviour.
Why should kids have to cover their ears or put up music to drown out abuse in their own home. Disgusting.
No its not normal for mature adults to behave like this, if a child behaved like this you would correct them. Why are people saying here, this is normal, its not.
Calling your wife and the kids mother an fing **** in front of them is appalling carry -on What an example to any sons watching in how to respect and treat women.
Grown adults don't insult ,scare their kids, tell their wife/husband to get out, reduce her to tears,throw stuff and intimidate, they discuss things rationally. If angry they remove themselves to calm down not shout, throw stuff, punch walls, and scream obscenities. They are not toddlers but supposedly mature adults with self control.
You are your kids role models don't forget.
Of course everyone has spats but when you abuse someone like this, terrify your kids and throw stuff, you have crossed the line. Next time OP phone that police line and inform them of what's going on . Those kids emotional health is at stake. They need to know this is wrong or maybe the girls could end up with a similar abuser themselves..
Verbal and emotional abuse if left unchecked graduates to physical abuse and the kids are being affected. If his shouting terrifies you next door, imagine being right there in the room.:(
Anyone who thinks this is normal or acceptable, needs to look in the mirror because it is not. Abuse of any kind is unacceptable and should not be tolerated.
Again, just because swearing isn't acceptable to you, doesn't mean everyone has the same standards. There are plenty of parents that swear at thier children, we don't call the police on them.
Incidentally why are we blaming the man? How do you know she didn't throw (presuming anything was thrown) something at him. How do you know she's not coming at him with a knife, hence the swearing and shouting, you don't. That's the issue here there are far too many assumptions going on, and people are judging others by thier own standards. And like I said, anyone who says they've never sworn or called another names during an argument is lying. It may not be quite as loud as the ops example, or as often, but we have all done it when fuming to the point of frustration, and sitting there pretending your perfect just makes you look silly and pompous.
You implied they were called out, that's incorrect. I don't believe there is a referral made on every case either. And besides, given the examples used what good would that of done? From what I've heard pelka was neglect, not argumentative parents (I've not followed the full case as it is not something I want to read about). Shouting parents, abusive-to-each-other-parents doesn't mean abused kids.
Again, just because swearing isn't acceptable to you, doesn't mean everyone has the same standards. There are plenty of parents that swear at thier children, we don't call the police on them.
Incidentally why are we blaming the man? How do you know she didn't throw (presuming anything was thrown) something at him. How do you know she's not coming at him with a knife, hence the swearing and shouting, you don't. That's the issue here there are far too many assumptions going on, and people are judging others by thier own standards. And like I said, anyone who says they've never sworn or called another names during an argument is lying. It may not be quite as loud as the ops example, or as often, but we have all done it when fuming to the point of frustration, and sitting there pretending your perfect just makes you look silly and pompous.
I am not perfect, I am a mature adult who can communicate without being abusive. Believe it or not, it can be done.
The Op only heard the man screaming each time and came upon the wife crying and upset, so we must surmise he is the main perp. Calling his wife an f-ing **** in front of kids or just one on one is unacceptable and is abuse.
There is swearing and there is this. Nothing wrong with being angry, it how you express that anger that matters and he expresses it inappropriately.
I would not and never have behaved like this in front of my kids or spoken to my OH in this manner. I would be conscious of the example I am giving and mindful of my OH's feelings. Its called respect for other people.
This man neither respects his wife or his kids. Noone is perfect but as adults we should have self control and cop-on.
Comments
Only the OP knows and its the OPs call!
Oh dear. The 'nosy parker' remark (which, I have to say, was harsh) was clearly posted in relation to the reaction to the OP, which is what we are discussing here, after all! I see nothing that suggests that it was aimed at anyone who ever raises a concern in general. That's your own (mis)interpretation. Your response to that was insulting and an overreaction. Overreacting is clearly your thing.
Err on the side of caution, yes. Completely overreact to arguments that are occurring infrequently, no. I think that the most important thing, where children are concerned, is actually to think hard and use common sense before taking ANY action. Because any action you take could be very harmful indeed, whether you ignore it or report it. It's not an easy decision, granted - it's a very hard situation to be in.
I was saying you may be....not you are I don't know your background or your life experience you could have been raise in a gated community the ideal parents who never raise their voices and perfect siblings, however I still disagree with you as you only heard the adults if you had heard kids screaming or crying it would be a different matter
No what I am saying which you don't seem to agree with is that some people shout and argue and yell it may not be ideal but it doesn't mean it is abuse or the precursor to abuse
I used the term may but it was further back the sentence maybe there should have been an apostrophe or comma somewhere - the problem with the written word and communication via forum
"because she is naïve and simplistic"
Sometimes these parents need a wake up call and a visit from authoritive figures can make them realise how damaging their behaviour is. Growing up with abusive fighting parents has a huge effect on your future relationships I think.
Not too sure it was necessary to point this out tbh, surely no one unless it was for malicious reasons would simply call in the authorities on a whim! If someone calls social services I would reasonably assume it would be after weighing up the odds and if you are in anyway unsure of a childs safety, make the call!
Which is what I have been saying and completely agree with you!
I really don't understand what your problem is....the post quoted mine so clearly referred to my post...I have reposted the entire conversation quote for quote. Have you got some wacky agenda going on?
Your first post to me was full of insults so dont you dare accuse me of overreacting...given the circumstances I think I have been very tolerant in the face of your continued provocation. Dont you have something important to do?
Absolutely and I think the OP handled it really well....she didnt jump in but had a chat with the mum and in the circumstances I think that was a very brave thing to do. Most of us would ignore it or hide behind the shield of authority rather than do that she did.
Oh absolutely but the tricky bit is know which are which.....sounds like what the OP heard was sufficient to tip the balance towards concern and I dont think any of us who were not in her situation should criticize her actions.
I have no 'wacky agenda' nor any kind of problem, and yes, I do have more important things to do, and I'm sure you do too, so I think we had best just draw a line under this particular exchange and move on.
No one is critiquing the op. She asked if she SHOULD call social services. We gave our opinions. The overwhelming opinion, based upon the opening post was no. It's a row. It had swearing in it - big whoop. We all swear. Something smashed - do we have any evidence that was something thrown at someone? No. I've thrown my exs MacBook out the window before
Oh and "social services are called to every police reported domestic involving children"? I call bull. My old neighbours ended up in a full brawl with a kids present, social were not called (even though mum was arrested). How do I know? Because the little girl stayed with us until dad was back from the hospital and we were kept updated.
Let's be sensible. The couple are rowing every few months, it's a big blow out and it's over. They are sensible in having one of them leave the house for a while. Even the mum goes outside to calm down. Yes she's upset - aren't we all when we have a fight?
If the op is concerned again, my suggestion would be to write down the time, duration and date of the fight, then the same for the next one etc, then she'll have something to present to so if she is seeing them get longer, or closer together.
Tws- we are agreeing, what's happening?
Bazaar - yes seems like it a lot lately:D, sure we shall disagree in the future lol
Read the thread.
I didnt say they were called out.
Yes it has a huge effect and is very traumatic for kids and sets the tone for any future relationships they have.. What the Op is listening to is verbal/emotional abuse, lack of control and intimidation, as in throwing things. What kind of example is this to kids, in how to communicate and conduct a relationship, its an awful example.:eek: That man should be ashamed of his lack of control over his anger and behaviour.
Why should kids have to cover their ears or put up music to drown out abuse in their own home. Disgusting.
No its not normal for mature adults to behave like this, if a child behaved like this you would correct them. Why are people saying here, this is normal, its not.
Calling your wife and the kids mother an fing **** in front of them is appalling carry -on What an example to any sons watching in how to respect and treat women.
Grown adults don't insult ,scare their kids, tell their wife/husband to get out, reduce her to tears,throw stuff and intimidate, they discuss things rationally. If angry they remove themselves to calm down not shout, throw stuff, punch walls, and scream obscenities. They are not toddlers but supposedly mature adults with self control.
You are your kids role models don't forget.
Of course everyone has spats but when you abuse someone like this, terrify your kids and throw stuff, you have crossed the line. Next time OP phone that police line and inform them of what's going on . Those kids emotional health is at stake. They need to know this is wrong or maybe the girls could end up with a similar abuser themselves..
Verbal and emotional abuse if left unchecked graduates to physical abuse and the kids are being affected. If his shouting terrifies you next door, imagine being right there in the room.:(
Anyone who thinks this is normal or acceptable, needs to look in the mirror because it is not. Abuse of any kind is unacceptable and should not be tolerated.
Again, just because swearing isn't acceptable to you, doesn't mean everyone has the same standards. There are plenty of parents that swear at thier children, we don't call the police on them.
Incidentally why are we blaming the man? How do you know she didn't throw (presuming anything was thrown) something at him. How do you know she's not coming at him with a knife, hence the swearing and shouting, you don't. That's the issue here there are far too many assumptions going on, and people are judging others by thier own standards. And like I said, anyone who says they've never sworn or called another names during an argument is lying. It may not be quite as loud as the ops example, or as often, but we have all done it when fuming to the point of frustration, and sitting there pretending your perfect just makes you look silly and pompous.
I've read the thread. Thanks though.
You implied they were called out, that's incorrect. I don't believe there is a referral made on every case either. And besides, given the examples used what good would that of done? From what I've heard pelka was neglect, not argumentative parents (I've not followed the full case as it is not something I want to read about). Shouting parents, abusive-to-each-other-parents doesn't mean abused kids.
I 'implied' nothing of the sort...I was correct.
Really? Do you have any stats on that?
I am not perfect, I am a mature adult who can communicate without being abusive. Believe it or not, it can be done.
The Op only heard the man screaming each time and came upon the wife crying and upset, so we must surmise he is the main perp. Calling his wife an f-ing **** in front of kids or just one on one is unacceptable and is abuse.
There is swearing and there is this. Nothing wrong with being angry, it how you express that anger that matters and he expresses it inappropriately.
I would not and never have behaved like this in front of my kids or spoken to my OH in this manner. I would be conscious of the example I am giving and mindful of my OH's feelings. Its called respect for other people.
This man neither respects his wife or his kids. Noone is perfect but as adults we should have self control and cop-on.
No stats but some critique of the process as it overwhelmes social services departments.
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/articles/05/11/2010/115747/research-police-notifications-of-domestic-violence-incidents.htm
Some more info if you want to wade through it.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/inform/research/findings/children_experiencing_domestic_violence_report_wdf70355.pdf