The Cult of Skaro were specifically sent away in a Void ship into N-Space. They would be untouchable there. And there were others in the prison - thousands of others. Then there was the progenitor, kick-started by the Daleks that were 'built' by their bomb - that wasn't fully explained as to which way round it worked, so best left to individuals' imaginations. And with just a couple of the Progenitors and RTD style Daleks, they have the time to recreate the hordes of Daleks seen recently. And the other mad Daleks were in the Asylum already.
Davros got out for the same reason that Dalek Caan went mad - he Emergency Temporal Shifted into the Time War and back out bringing Davros with him (was explained in the episode).
Thw White Point Star Diamond was sent before the 'Moment' was used (in the episode), and was part of the plan which included placing the sound of drums in the Master's head - as they knew what would be happening, due to having a soothsayer on board.
The White woman presumably used similar methods to the 'drum sounds' for the Master, as she appears to be intangible, and also knew about the impending happenings - due to being on the council. Being capable of seeing through time, she'd know where and when to speak to Wilf without actually having to be there.
Yeah- I do get most of the Dalek stuff really- it just seems looking back, that every time the Daleks showed up they were able to amass hoards of them together and be about to destroy the whole universe or something, before being totally wiped out again in a matter of minutes. Wiped out for good.....until the next time
I think a lot of people are forgetting but a lot of RTD's stuff wasn't explained properly until the end of his reign so i can probably say the same might go for Moffat.
That's exactly what I was pointing out really
There will be loads more unexplained stuff back then, but no one seems to give two hoots about most of it now.
I am definitely not saying I did not like that era, because i did like it. I'm just pointing out there is just as much ( I'd bet there's actually MORE) unexplained stuff and dangling plot lines from back then, but Moffat gets a lot of criticism for that, and RTD can't put a foot wrong it seems.
I wonder if the next showrunner will suffer in the same way?
Interesting. He/she must be quite a prop maker to buried at Trenzalore.
She isn't buried at Trenzalore. Her name is on the tombstone because she built the tombstone. In fact she probably built the whole of Trenzalore. It's a credit - Moffat reaching through the fourth wall again. http://www.clemencybunn.com/about
I know that a version of himself appeared and released the imprisoned version so that amy could be put inside for safe keeping, but how did the the doctor get out in the first palce to let his past self out?
Well, it's imaginative, at least! But the Pandoria didn't remove the Doctor from the universe, and so doesn't really create any kind of paradox.
The simpler version is that someone blew up the TARDIS. The Doctor would have been able to stop it, but since he was accused of causing it and imprisoned in the Pandorica, he couldn't, and the effect was unstoppable.
How did the Doctor escape from the Pandorica??
I know that a version of himself appeared and released the imprisoned version so that amy could be put inside for safe keeping, but how did the the doctor get out in the first palce to let his past self out?
He didn't let his past self out. Rory did. What was on screen was all that happened.
I know that a version of himself appeared and released the imprisoned version so that amy could be put inside for safe keeping, but how did the the doctor get out in the first palce to let his past self out?
It's a predestinaion paradox. Quite common in sci-fi. He got out because his future self let him out. His future self was free to do this because in his past his future self had let him out. That's all there is to it!
Edit: ok, his future self got Rory to do it. Same thing
Well, it's imaginative, at least! But the Pandoria didn't remove the Doctor from the universe, and so doesn't really create any kind of paradox.
The simpler version is that someone blew up the TARDIS. The Doctor would have been able to stop it, but since he was accused of causing it and imprisoned in the Pandorica, he couldn't, and the effect was unstoppable.
He didn't let his past self out. Rory did. What was on screen was all that happened.
I think it did remove him from the universe. therefore I challenge you to a duel. lol:p Just kidding.
I think he got removed when at the very end he pilots the pandorica towards the tardis- BAM!-explosion, which causes the cracks, wipes out the universe- just as the Doctor manages to 'steer' the pandorica into the explosion which kick starts a new big bang to re-create the 'old' universe in the 'new' universe. the only problem was that the Doctor, being stuck in the pandorica thought he wouldn't be re-created in the new one.
That's what I think anyway. So I believe the explosion was the result of the Doctor being removed from the universe, when finally sealed in the pandorica. The result caused the cracks which was 'removing' chunks of universe/time. The pandorica, combined with the moment of explosion was used to 'rebuild' the universe exactly as it was at that moment, via a new 'big bang'.
Possible evidence could be when the Doctor sticks his hand through a crack and pulls out a fragment of the Tardis (although I'm not labelling that up as exhibit A as it could probably be 'evidence' of other things too:) )
that's my story and I'm sticking to it lol
I agree he didn't let himself out. Everything made sense about the comings and goings from the pandorica in the episode ( I thought anyway- maybe I should go rewatch it)
I think it did remove him from the universe. therefore I challenge you to a duel. lol:p Just kidding.
I think he got removed when at the very end he pilots the pandorica towards the tardis- BAM!-explosion, which causes the cracks, wipes out the universe- just as the Doctor manages to 'steer' the pandorica into the explosion which kick starts a new big bang to re-create the 'old' universe in the 'new' universe. the only problem was that the Doctor, being stuck in the pandorica thought he wouldn't be re-created in the new one.
That's what I think anyway. So I believe the explosion was the result of the Doctor being removed from the universe, when finally sealed in the pandorica. The result caused the cracks which was 'removing' chunks of universe/time. The pandorica, combined with the moment of explosion was used to 'rebuild' the universe exactly as it was at that moment, via a new 'big bang'.
Possible evidence could be when the Doctor sticks his hand through a crack and pulls out a fragment of the Tardis (although I'm not labelling that up as exhibit A as it could probably be 'evidence' of other things too:) )
that's my story and I'm sticking to it lol
I agree he didn't let himself out. Everything made sense about the comings and goings from the pandorica in the episode ( I thought anyway- maybe I should go rewatch it)
The only trouble with your theory is that the explosion had happened before he flew the Pandorica into it. The TARDIS exploded long before the Doctor sacrificed himself - it was the only way he could blow up the Pandorica. The Doctor then has to take himself out of the universe to undo the cracks after the explosion of the Pandorica sends him backwards across his own timestream.
While it's a nice theory, it can't be made to fit what we saw happen.
I think it's interesting to note the writers no doubt have detailed plans for what they want to do with Doctor Who
(it seems RTD had the time war and what happened completely sketched out in his mind but kept it a mystery for obvious reasons.
He also had a list of which foes he intended to bring back each year, Daleks, Cybermen, The Master, Davros, Time Lords, etc )
Same with Moffat.
However due to the constraints of making a TV show, not everything they have in their plan is able to make its way onto the screen due to either budget (where IS that Stephen Fry episode? ), time constraints (where IS that 10.2 Doctor's Tardis? ) or various other logistical reasons.
Sometimes they come out long after the writer's tenure (Ie the Writer's Tale), sometimes they remained locked away.
Doesn't stop us speculating forever more though, does it?
Alex Kingston on Doctor Who Confidential – "A Good Man Goes to War" (6.17): "But on the, on the actual cot....I think it's his [The Doctor's] name....It's the Doctor's cot....But is it only the Doctor's cot?" - She stops herself but it's sounds like she wants to say more.
Alex Kingston on Doctor Who Confidential – "A Good Man Goes to War" (6.17): "But on the, on the actual cot....I think it's his [The Doctor's] name....It's the Doctor's cot....But is it only the Doctor's cot?" - She stops herself but it's sounds like she wants to say more.
The only trouble with your theory is that the explosion had happened before he flew the Pandorica into it. The TARDIS exploded long before the Doctor sacrificed himself - it was the only way he could blow up the Pandorica. The Doctor then has to take himself out of the universe to undo the cracks after the explosion of the Pandorica sends him backwards across his own timestream.
While it's a nice theory, it can't be made to fit what we saw happen.
To answer that one I would say it's a time machine and hadn't fully exploded/stopped exploding until the moment the pandorica was fully sealed, and it all happened backwards from that point, We also saw river inside it, so it hadn't fully 'gone' then at that stahe, but was very close, producing/leaking so much enery that it looked like the sin in the sky.
I think he got removed when at the very end he pilots the pandorica towards the tardis- BAM!-explosion, which causes the cracks, wipes out the universe- just as the Doctor manages to 'steer' the pandorica into the explosion which kick starts a new big bang to re-create the 'old' universe in the 'new' universe. the only problem was that the Doctor, being stuck in the pandorica thought he wouldn't be re-created in the new one.
Except post-explosion, we see the Doctor rewinding through his lifetime in this universe as the cracks close - not in the Pandorica. The Pandorica has no reason to exist in a universe that hasn't exploded.
The Doctor has said on a few occasions how someone tried to blow up his TARDIS - and given the attention the writers took to make sure were understood the cause-and-effect of his paradoxical travels, then if the explosion were also one, we'd know about it.
Seems unlikely he'd be nostalgic over his own cot but it's possible that he used it for his own kid(s) or gave it to his kid for when Susan was born.
Well, he's got whole rooms and boxes full of trinkets and mementos from the various things he's done in his life - strikes me that his cot would definitely be one of them.
Well, he's got whole rooms and boxes full of trinkets and mementos from the various things he's done in his life - strikes me that his cot would definitely be one of them.
But when did he pick it up? Same applies to some other stuff such as that device he used in Vincent and the Doctor which he'd been given as child.
We've now seen the Doctor and Susan steal the TARDIS for the first time and unless there was an unseen scene prior to that with a load of removal men carting boxes into the TARDIS then it probably wasn't then.
If not it must have been on one of his return trips to Gallifrey. Maybe when the Time Lords exiled him in the War Games they also filled up the TARDIS with all the junk that was in the Attic of the Doctor's families old house.
Could also mean someone tried to blow up the Tardis by putting him in the pandorica. (someone spread the word to the 'alliance' members to make them want to put him in there)
You might have trumped me on the doctor rewinding through his lifetime though (damn).
Just had a think about it and I think at the very moment the pandorica meets the exploding Tardis there is the sort of 'moment before the Big Bang'. In physics scientists believe there was some sort of pause in the real big bang, before a massive explosion, with the universe expanding really far, really fast, followed by a much slower expansion again.
So in this 'moment', where time effectively didn't exist, just as the old universe is about to disappear and the new one about to start, is when the doctor was able to visit everything because it was all scrunched up in one place, ready to be rebuilt again in the very moment after in the new universe.
He was surprised he was able to see and sort of interact with things at this point. I guess even tine lords have never visited before time existed in the universe at the beginning of it all. In the moment before the big bang made time and everything else.
So in this moment he made sure there were those few extra holes the universe would need to reconstruct him. The pandorica was like a seed or egg, using the old universe and exploding Tardis to spew out all the 'dna' stored within into the new universe, destroying it and the old universe in the Process.
.....I'm probably still not convincing anyone am i? Lol
Mine is from lkh what was with the poison ?. Kovarian could have spiked the doctoars food or drink and killed him herself. Instead we had a toxic kiss from a newly regenerated river. How did sje not accidently poison herself ?. At least it explained her hallucnogenic lipstick she used later on.
Mine is from lkh what was with the poison ?. Kovarian could have spiked the doctoars food or drink and killed him herself. Instead we had a toxic kiss from a newly regenerated river. How did sje not accidently poison herself ?. At least it explained her hallucnogenic lipstick she used later on.
Poisoned lipstick is a fairly common idea in spy dramas. I think the usual method is to have taken an anti-toxin beforehand. However, in this case, it just needs to be DNA-encoded so that it only affects the Doctor (or only affects males or only affects Time Lords, or whatever you can encode for).
Okay, I've gotta ask - what loophole are you trying to close? What unanswered question is it that you think your (very creative!) idea resolves?
Because - and I mean this with the greatest of respect - I don't see how your idea fits the story any better than the one given in the episode.
The question is: Who blew up the Tardis?
That was the answer NOT given in the episode that a lot of people are asking about. It doesn't really bother me if there's not an answer as yet, but it does bother a lot of people. I think the episode is great as it is.
So I'm just trying to provide some kind of answer. But then again, that theory only reverts to : Who caused the alliance to want to put the Doctor in the Pandorica?
It would be interesting if that's how the Doctor brought Susan on board - as a baby in his old cot - before travelling around for a while until however old she was in "An Unearthly Child". Too bad "The Name of the Doctor" makes that impossible, but it might not have worked anyway.
I was going to stick with the theory that he brought the cot on board during one of his return trips, but I am really liking the idea that the Time Lords decided to stuff all his personal belongings into his TARDIS before sending him into exile on Earth. It's like they wanted to get rid of him but also wanted to make sure he was well off, and/or weren't expecting him to ever return to Gallifrey to claim his belongings.
Comments
Yeah- I do get most of the Dalek stuff really- it just seems looking back, that every time the Daleks showed up they were able to amass hoards of them together and be about to destroy the whole universe or something, before being totally wiped out again in a matter of minutes. Wiped out for good.....until the next time
That's exactly what I was pointing out really
There will be loads more unexplained stuff back then, but no one seems to give two hoots about most of it now.
I am definitely not saying I did not like that era, because i did like it. I'm just pointing out there is just as much ( I'd bet there's actually MORE) unexplained stuff and dangling plot lines from back then, but Moffat gets a lot of criticism for that, and RTD can't put a foot wrong it seems.
I wonder if the next showrunner will suffer in the same way?
http://www.clemencybunn.com/about
I know that a version of himself appeared and released the imprisoned version so that amy could be put inside for safe keeping, but how did the the doctor get out in the first palce to let his past self out?
The simpler version is that someone blew up the TARDIS. The Doctor would have been able to stop it, but since he was accused of causing it and imprisoned in the Pandorica, he couldn't, and the effect was unstoppable.
He didn't let his past self out. Rory did. What was on screen was all that happened.
It's a predestinaion paradox. Quite common in sci-fi. He got out because his future self let him out. His future self was free to do this because in his past his future self had let him out. That's all there is to it!
Edit: ok, his future self got Rory to do it. Same thing
I think it did remove him from the universe. therefore I challenge you to a duel. lol:p Just kidding.
I think he got removed when at the very end he pilots the pandorica towards the tardis- BAM!-explosion, which causes the cracks, wipes out the universe- just as the Doctor manages to 'steer' the pandorica into the explosion which kick starts a new big bang to re-create the 'old' universe in the 'new' universe. the only problem was that the Doctor, being stuck in the pandorica thought he wouldn't be re-created in the new one.
That's what I think anyway. So I believe the explosion was the result of the Doctor being removed from the universe, when finally sealed in the pandorica. The result caused the cracks which was 'removing' chunks of universe/time. The pandorica, combined with the moment of explosion was used to 'rebuild' the universe exactly as it was at that moment, via a new 'big bang'.
Possible evidence could be when the Doctor sticks his hand through a crack and pulls out a fragment of the Tardis (although I'm not labelling that up as exhibit A as it could probably be 'evidence' of other things too:) )
that's my story and I'm sticking to it
I agree he didn't let himself out. Everything made sense about the comings and goings from the pandorica in the episode ( I thought anyway- maybe I should go rewatch it)
The only trouble with your theory is that the explosion had happened before he flew the Pandorica into it. The TARDIS exploded long before the Doctor sacrificed himself - it was the only way he could blow up the Pandorica. The Doctor then has to take himself out of the universe to undo the cracks after the explosion of the Pandorica sends him backwards across his own timestream.
While it's a nice theory, it can't be made to fit what we saw happen.
(it seems RTD had the time war and what happened completely sketched out in his mind but kept it a mystery for obvious reasons.
He also had a list of which foes he intended to bring back each year, Daleks, Cybermen, The Master, Davros, Time Lords, etc )
Same with Moffat.
However due to the constraints of making a TV show, not everything they have in their plan is able to make its way onto the screen due to either budget (where IS that Stephen Fry episode?
Sometimes they come out long after the writer's tenure (Ie the Writer's Tale), sometimes they remained locked away.
Doesn't stop us speculating forever more though, does it?
http://www.bbcamerica.com/doctor-who/videos/doctor-who-confidential-a-good-man-goes-to-war/
What was all that about?
River always knows....:D
Question is why would HIS cot be on the TARDIS.....
To answer that one I would say it's a time machine and hadn't fully exploded/stopped exploding until the moment the pandorica was fully sealed, and it all happened backwards from that point, We also saw river inside it, so it hadn't fully 'gone' then at that stahe, but was very close, producing/leaking so much enery that it looked like the sin in the sky.
I think that fits with exactly what we saw:)
Seems unlikely he'd be nostalgic over his own cot but it's possible that he used it for his own kid(s) or gave it to his kid for when Susan was born.
The Doctor has said on a few occasions how someone tried to blow up his TARDIS - and given the attention the writers took to make sure were understood the cause-and-effect of his paradoxical travels, then if the explosion were also one, we'd know about it.
Well, he's got whole rooms and boxes full of trinkets and mementos from the various things he's done in his life - strikes me that his cot would definitely be one of them.
But when did he pick it up? Same applies to some other stuff such as that device he used in Vincent and the Doctor which he'd been given as child.
We've now seen the Doctor and Susan steal the TARDIS for the first time and unless there was an unseen scene prior to that with a load of removal men carting boxes into the TARDIS then it probably wasn't then.
If not it must have been on one of his return trips to Gallifrey. Maybe when the Time Lords exiled him in the War Games they also filled up the TARDIS with all the junk that was in the Attic of the Doctor's families old house.
You might have trumped me on the doctor rewinding through his lifetime though (damn).
Just had a think about it and I think at the very moment the pandorica meets the exploding Tardis there is the sort of 'moment before the Big Bang'. In physics scientists believe there was some sort of pause in the real big bang, before a massive explosion, with the universe expanding really far, really fast, followed by a much slower expansion again.
So in this 'moment', where time effectively didn't exist, just as the old universe is about to disappear and the new one about to start, is when the doctor was able to visit everything because it was all scrunched up in one place, ready to be rebuilt again in the very moment after in the new universe.
He was surprised he was able to see and sort of interact with things at this point. I guess even tine lords have never visited before time existed in the universe at the beginning of it all. In the moment before the big bang made time and everything else.
So in this moment he made sure there were those few extra holes the universe would need to reconstruct him. The pandorica was like a seed or egg, using the old universe and exploding Tardis to spew out all the 'dna' stored within into the new universe, destroying it and the old universe in the Process.
.....I'm probably still not convincing anyone am i? Lol
It does make sense, honest:p
Because - and I mean this with the greatest of respect - I don't see how your idea fits the story any better than the one given in the episode.
Poisoned lipstick is a fairly common idea in spy dramas. I think the usual method is to have taken an anti-toxin beforehand. However, in this case, it just needs to be DNA-encoded so that it only affects the Doctor (or only affects males or only affects Time Lords, or whatever you can encode for).
The question is: Who blew up the Tardis?
That was the answer NOT given in the episode that a lot of people are asking about. It doesn't really bother me if there's not an answer as yet, but it does bother a lot of people. I think the episode is great as it is.
So I'm just trying to provide some kind of answer. But then again, that theory only reverts to : Who caused the alliance to want to put the Doctor in the Pandorica?
But his kids had already grown by the time the Dr got the tardis, it was only himself and his granddaughter on the tardis, never any of his kids...
So the fact his own cot was on board means he was planning on making new babies as he explored the universe.. ..... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
The Theory of the doctors Cot....
I was going to stick with the theory that he brought the cot on board during one of his return trips, but I am really liking the idea that the Time Lords decided to stuff all his personal belongings into his TARDIS before sending him into exile on Earth. It's like they wanted to get rid of him but also wanted to make sure he was well off, and/or weren't expecting him to ever return to Gallifrey to claim his belongings.
In The Crimson Horror most of the gentlemen were wearing ties apart from one young guy with a bow tie but it could just be a red herring:D