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No wonder Vestel DVRs don't last very long...


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Old 02-04-2013, 12:36
jjne
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Just repaired a Hitachi Vestel Freeview DVR. One of the electrolytics (quelle surprise) had dumped its load all over the circuit board as it vented. Usual story.

Looking around at this thing though... general purpose capacitors in the power supply (all of them). And made by the Chinese carp-merchants "Chang" at that. Eh?

Even the lowest of the low usually stick at least to using low-ESR capacitors across the board. These CD110 generic caps are junk -- frankly I'm amazed they last as long as they do (datasheet indicates that these are completely bog-standard electrolytics, with 1000h load life and low ripple current ratings -- and they're low end Chinese caps which means they probably won't even reach their rated specs). Complete gutless wonders.

This particular one failed in a slightly odd place -- near the tuner modules. Replaced it, and its opposite number on the other tuner, with Panasonic FCs (not the greatest in the world but a mighty sight better than what was there) and it's now back to full health.

But isn't such disregard for quality components playing with fire somewhat? The rest of the component selection seems OK-ish; no idea what Vestel were thinking with the caps though. Right next to the tuner as well, where it gets a wee bit warm to say the least...
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Old 02-04-2013, 13:59
Nigel Goodwin
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The rest of the component selection seems OK-ish; no idea what Vestel were thinking with the caps though.
Why would you have 'no idea'? - it's pretty obvious, the 'idea' is to use the cheapest crappiest components they can find in order to keep the price down low.

I know it's a stupid idea, and you know it's a stupid idea, but the bean counters as Vestel don't.
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Old 02-04-2013, 14:00
moox
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It's unfortunate that Vestel are by far not the only company to do this...
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Old 02-04-2013, 14:06
barbeler
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My parents have a Wharfedale television, apparently made by Vestel. They've had it for years now and it is truly the best picture I've ever seen on any television. You would think that every channel on it was high definition. In fact I bought them an HD box from Aldi and they didn't want to keep it, because it meant having an extra remote and on HD channels you really couldn't tell the difference. The same box made quite a dramatic difference to my Toshiba Regza.
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Old 02-04-2013, 15:11
jjne
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Why would you have 'no idea'? - it's pretty obvious, the 'idea' is to use the cheapest crappiest components they can find in order to keep the price down low.

I know it's a stupid idea, and you know it's a stupid idea, but the bean counters as Vestel don't.
I think they do know, and that's the problem (built-in obsolescence -- they know that most of the components rarely fail to they shove in a few bits of bad design and cheap fail-points so people come back a couple of years later). It's one thing to select some inferior brand (I dunno, say CapXon rather than something like the Panasonics mentioned earlier) but GP caps in a power supply? Even the junk isn't usually that bad.

If I was going to keep this I think I'd overhaul at least the power supply (is the T825 one of the models where failed components in the PSU blat the main board?). As it stands, it works, and is going on eBay. Not my problem any more!
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Old 02-04-2013, 15:16
jjne
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My parents have a Wharfedale television, apparently made by Vestel. They've had it for years now and it is truly the best picture I've ever seen on any television. You would think that every channel on it was high definition. In fact I bought them an HD box from Aldi and they didn't want to keep it, because it meant having an extra remote and on HD channels you really couldn't tell the difference. The same box made quite a dramatic difference to my Toshiba Regza.
If HD made no difference to the Wharfedale, I'm not sure if the picture can be all that great. Good HD, even good HD from Freeview, leaves Freeview SD looking like mush -- even on the best sets.
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Old 02-04-2013, 15:32
chrisjr
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If HD made no difference to the Wharfedale, I'm not sure if the picture can be all that great. Good HD, even good HD from Freeview, leaves Freeview SD looking like mush -- even on the best sets.
My mum has a Wharfedale TV. I would not rate it as the best of anything (it can't even switch between 16:9 and 4:3 on it's internal tuner by itself!).

I'd be more inclined to think it's a small screen being viewed from too far away for HD to make much difference than anything to do with the quality of the image.
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Old 02-04-2013, 16:01
moox
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My mum has a Wharfedale TV. I would not rate it as the best of anything (it can't even switch between 16:9 and 4:3 on it's internal tuner by itself!).

I'd be more inclined to think it's a small screen being viewed from too far away for HD to make much difference than anything to do with the quality of the image.
I have a no-name brand TV which I believe is a Vestel. I'm not sure if it can do aspect ratio switching on the tuner (I don't use Freeview), but certainly won't do it on SCART. Inexplicably it seems to manage to do it on HDMI, which appears to be something much more expensive TVs have problems with.
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Old 02-04-2013, 17:24
chrisjr
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I have a no-name brand TV which I believe is a Vestel. I'm not sure if it can do aspect ratio switching on the tuner (I don't use Freeview), but certainly won't do it on SCART. Inexplicably it seems to manage to do it on HDMI, which appears to be something much more expensive TVs have problems with.
My mum's TV can quite happily aspect ratio switch all day long on SCART. But is completely unable to do so using the built in tuner. And I have trawled through every single setting in the menu to try and find out where any auto aspect ratio setting is. So far it is proving so well hidden that I have to suspect it doesn't actually exist.
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Old 02-04-2013, 18:42
Sibeber
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My mum's TV can quite happily aspect ratio switch all day long on SCART. But is completely unable to do so using the built in tuner. And I have trawled through every single setting in the menu to try and find out where any auto aspect ratio setting is. So far it is proving so well hidden that I have to suspect it doesn't actually exist.
Have just come back from Spain and my hotel room had a 32" Grundig ( I believe Vestel) flatscreen tv in my room ..the picture was superb .In The bar /lounge they had what looked like a 50" Grundig flatscreen on the wall .They were showing Spain v France and I was stunned by the clarity of the picture quality
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Old 02-04-2013, 19:20
Nigel Goodwin
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I 'think' Grundig sets are normally Beko?, seeing as Beko own (or did own) the Grundig name - but quality, reliability and performance is similar to Vestel.
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Old 02-04-2013, 20:07
jjne
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Interesting how few people seem to be getting the point of this thread. I'm making no real comment on the picture or sound quality of these items.

FWIW, it appears that the Hitachi sported an upgraded set of capacitors lol. I just ripped open my personal Vestel T825 (an Alba, which is also about to be sold, while they still have some residual value). This one didn't have Chang capacitors, oh no. It had a mixture of HEC and G-Luxon caps, rated only to 85C and with even higher ESR/lower ripple current capacity. As it only got light use, it's all still working fine for now.

Pathetic. Even the 5 PC power supplies have "low-ESR" Chinese caps. And they fail with monotonous reliability also.

I've a good mind to take out those shiny (and fairly expensive -- a full 80p for the two) Panasonics, and shoe in an equally-cheap generic part -- it's not as if reliability is going to be particulary improved with the more expensive bits lol.

I wasn't overly impressed by the transformer in the power supplies now I come to mention it -- looked a bit poor to me. Do they fail at all?
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Old 02-04-2013, 22:10
andys corner
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Has anyone taken a humax apart for comparison?
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:57
Nigel Goodwin
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Has anyone taken a humax apart for comparison?
Humax has used cheap CapXon capacitors in their products, and as with all other users of them the products do fail prematurely.

The last couple I've had to pieces didn't have CapXon (the HDD's had failed), so presumably Humax have learnt their lesson?.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:41
nvingo
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Also that the best circumstance to compare HD to SD is on a FULL HD TV 1920x1080 panel.
Don't forget that many HD READY TVs only have panels 1366x768 or 1440x900 pixels. These won't show a significant improvement from an HD source.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:40
Nigel Goodwin
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Also that the best circumstance to compare HD to SD is on a FULL HD TV 1920x1080 panel.
Don't forget that many HD READY TVs only have panels 1366x768 or 1440x900 pixels. These won't show a significant improvement from an HD source.
Sorry, but total and utter rubbish - HD Ready LCD sets are absolutely stunning on HD - to get ANY advantage from a Full HD screen you need to view from even closer than with HD Ready.

With multiple sets side by side, fed from the same HD source, I can't even tell which ones are Full HD and which ones are 'only' HD Ready - particularly so with the excessive compression used on HD broadcasts.
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