It's just dumb on sooo many levels in a war zone, especially if you know there are things like Su-25's around or attack helicopters which would just love a target like that. Reality is you'd want to keep them as hidden as possible.
I think we already know the rebels perhaps don't have the strictest military discipline. And there will be areas that they know are well within their own territory where they would probably feel safe enough for a quick photo-op.
I think we already know the rebels perhaps don't have the strictest military discipline. And there will be areas that they know are well within their own territory where they would probably feel safe enough for a quick photo-op.
Might explain things. Pose for a photo op. And now one of you in the cabin. That's great! Now can I get one of you looking serious and pushing that big red button.. What's that noise! Why is my assistant smoking at the back of the truck?!?
The telescopic masts though are to link the units into their AD net, so basically you'd still want to keep them as far apart as possible and in cover, or moving around cover until you've found a target.
First off I have little doubt (or would harbour little surprise) this is the work of the separatists
But this whole thing looking in from the outside is just an utter mess. I have serious doubts about the path the Western leaders are taking us down, it’s all very well talking tough on TV but I see them backing Putin into a corner. At the moment he’s in an impossible position; sell out the ethnic Russians or face sanctions……the West has to offer some form of route out for him. One of the brilliant things about Kennedy was that he realised you can’t just back someone into a corner and expect them to acquiesce into your demands, a cornered animal will lash out to save itself…see the Cuban missile crisis (Kennedy negotiated in private with the Russians they wouldn’t put nuclear missiles in Turkey and as a result the Russians pulled out of Cuba)
Russia is highly unlikely to sell out its ethnic neighbours, so there has to be some appeasement somewhere in the process, however unpalatable that seems right now with recent events. Putting aside MH17, in Russia’s eyes they’ve seen a coup tear the Ukraine apart and it would be no surprise to find it was/is backed with Western money. The end game for the US (and by extension the Western powers falling in behind) is to perhaps have some sort of presence deployed in the Ukraine, I bet the US wouldn’t feel happy if their border with Mexico was suddenly covered with non-friendly troops.
It’s frustrating the way this whole thing (the Ukraine crisis) is being reported, it’s like the West are completely white than white in all their previous endeavours. There are many of us no doubt who completely condemn the awful actions of the separatists but are angered at the one sided sanctimonious talk coming from the West. Russia could screw the West if it wanted to, they hold a lot of Europe over a barrel with energy, and they have large investments in the financial markets. For all the tough talk in public, I bet in private the tone is a lot more open minded to position Putin has been put in by this, European leaders won’t want their energy prices to rise, or the financial markets to lose investors. Expect to hear some tough sounding economic sanctions against Russia in the press but in the back channels some form of policy appeasement is probably going ahead.
As I’m not just blindly hating on Putin I expect many posters will accuse me of being sympathetic, no I’m far from that, I just see the overall picture being a lot more mixed and even sided than the press is reporting.
Excellent post Entropy. I'm glad some folk look at international relations in that particular way.
I think we already know the rebels perhaps don't have the strictest military discipline. And there will be areas that they know are well within their own territory where they would probably feel safe enough for a quick photo-op.
Yeah, discipline is definitely not something they appear to have much of.
In fact, these rebels look like how I'd imagine all those gun-toting NRA members in the USA would be like if they one day got into a position to need to stand up to their Government. A total shambles, with no leadership and loads of in-fighting, drunkeness etc.
It doesnt give any comfort to me. For this reason. The victims have been left in fields in the ukrainian summer and are probably showing early signs of decomposing accelerated by temperature factors. Also the added disgusting fact is that the bodies are being transported in unrefrigerated trains. The victims have been treated with utter contempt by the rebels and by moscow. Putin is an egotist who could have been more decisive with the rebels and ordered the rebels to have handed over the victims quicker than what they have done.
If it were my loved one I'd be relieved that they were that little bit nearer to coming home to me instead of being left where they died.
Have you a link to bodies are being transported in unrefrigerated trains"? The officials who initially inspected the carriages didn't seem to raise any concerns of the carriages not being cooled.
Like I said previously maybe it's a small comfort to the bereaved their loved ones are now out of the area and are now one step nearer to being repatriated.
They are to blame for there being a need for a no-fly zone in the area, and the rebels needing anti-aircraft weapons. It wouldn't have happened if Ukraine kept the battle to a ground one only.
Partially. If they knew, or at least had good reason to suspect an increased air threat then the air space probably should have been closed. There's been some suggestions Ukraine didn't want to lose money they get from airlines flying over the country. But I can't imagine that being a great deal of money. Anyone know how much it is?
But basically they lose the missile systems and claim they weren't operational. So no threat. Then a couple of days later, the An-26 gets shot down at 6,500m. So obviously there was a threat to higher flying aircraft. Ukraine raise the restricted level but that seems more to have been for their own air operations.
Both sides to blame, possibly. Malaysia Airlines can probably rightly claim that they could only go on with the information given to them by the Ukrainian government. The passenger's families may be within their rights to sue the Ukrainian government given it was known & admitted by them that their Buks were captured on 29th June. Though they claimed they were currently non operational, that surely means they knew that they were servicable & would be a threat within days. The AN-26 transport plane was shot down at 21,000 feet on 14th July, above the range of any shoulder mounted missiles.
So the Daily Mail have published what was said to be a photo from the vk account of a pro Russian rebel Sergei Paschenko posing in front of a BUK missile system
So the Daily Mail have published what was said to be a photo from the vk account of a pro Russian rebel Sergei Paschenko posing in front of a BUK missile system
That Betteridge's law of headlines applies? Analysing Daily Mail photos isn't a worthwhile endeavour. They most likely google imaged BUK and copy and pasted the first photos they found in.
I'm not sure that the Russians want to conquer Ukraine. They just don't want the EU and NATO to conquer Ukraine.
Which looking at it from their side of the table, is perfectly understandable. It's a step too far.
America already has missile bases in Poland which was quite controversial and they didn't like it one bit when Krushchev started shipping missiles to their front door in Cuba.
That Betteridge's law of headlines applies? Analysing Daily Mail photos isn't a worthwhile endeavour. They most likely google imaged BUK and copy and pasted the first photos they found in.
They didn't, the photo only had only been on the net for a few days.
They didn't, the photo only had only been on the net for a few days.
The Daily Mail makes about as much sense as Russia Today. They post rubbish with a question mark knowing it is crap. Look out for the ? and then skip on past the article.
Which looking at it from their side of the table, is perfectly understandable. It's a step too far.
America already has missile bases in Poland which was quite controversial and they didn't like it one bit when Krushchev started shipping missiles to their front door in Cuba.
Don't you know that it's always alright when the Americans do it though? It's acceptable for us to fund and arm Syrian rebels fight an unelected government but we have the complete opposite policy in Ukraine when logically we should be either supporting both groups of rebels for fighting an unelected government or be supporting that unelected government in stopping the rebels.
Comments
Might explain things. Pose for a photo op. And now one of you in the cabin. That's great! Now can I get one of you looking serious and pushing that big red button.. What's that noise! Why is my assistant smoking at the back of the truck?!?
The telescopic masts though are to link the units into their AD net, so basically you'd still want to keep them as far apart as possible and in cover, or moving around cover until you've found a target.
Excellent post Entropy. I'm glad some folk look at international relations in that particular way.
Yeah, discipline is definitely not something they appear to have much of.
In fact, these rebels look like how I'd imagine all those gun-toting NRA members in the USA would be like if they one day got into a position to need to stand up to their Government. A total shambles, with no leadership and loads of in-fighting, drunkeness etc.
If it were my loved one I'd be relieved that they were that little bit nearer to coming home to me instead of being left where they died.
Have you a link to bodies are being transported in unrefrigerated trains"? The officials who initially inspected the carriages didn't seem to raise any concerns of the carriages not being cooled.
Like I said previously maybe it's a small comfort to the bereaved their loved ones are now out of the area and are now one step nearer to being repatriated.
Dear me
Some feisty little buggers amid that lot.
I say let Russia conquer it.
So Ukraine was to blame?
Partially. If they knew, or at least had good reason to suspect an increased air threat then the air space probably should have been closed. There's been some suggestions Ukraine didn't want to lose money they get from airlines flying over the country. But I can't imagine that being a great deal of money. Anyone know how much it is?
But basically they lose the missile systems and claim they weren't operational. So no threat. Then a couple of days later, the An-26 gets shot down at 6,500m. So obviously there was a threat to higher flying aircraft. Ukraine raise the restricted level but that seems more to have been for their own air operations.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/07/23/ukraine-crisis-jets-shot-idINKBN0FS14720140723
http://news.sky.com/story/1306134/rebels-mh17-site-sabotage-plan-intercepted
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28431943
http://interfax.co.uk/newsinf.asp?y=2013&m=9&d=23&pg=4&id=517080
He is standing on grass.
That Betteridge's law of headlines applies? Analysing Daily Mail photos isn't a worthwhile endeavour. They most likely google imaged BUK and copy and pasted the first photos they found in.
America already has missile bases in Poland which was quite controversial and they didn't like it one bit when Krushchev started shipping missiles to their front door in Cuba.
The Daily Mail makes about as much sense as Russia Today. They post rubbish with a question mark knowing it is crap. Look out for the ? and then skip on past the article.
https://twitter.com/KeirSimmons
Why are the Ukrainian army carrying out military operations near the crash area?
Don't you know that it's always alright when the Americans do it though? It's acceptable for us to fund and arm Syrian rebels fight an unelected government but we have the complete opposite policy in Ukraine when logically we should be either supporting both groups of rebels for fighting an unelected government or be supporting that unelected government in stopping the rebels.