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Gordon Brown accuses Cameron of whipping up English nationalism

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    steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    Ash_M1 wrote: »
    Ah...we getting the excuses in early mate? I have to say, nothing of what I see of Cameron says, "I want another two years or so...".

    Why would I be making excuses when I am not voting Conservative.
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    BrawladBrawlad Posts: 5,711
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    Have you ever seen a tail wagging a dog? It's not a pretty sight.

    Lol . A tail cannot wag a dog. But the electorate can stand up to a self serving elite.
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    steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    jenzie wrote: »
    that limp wristed robot cameron couldn't whip up a sodding omelette

    More newspaper style insults I see.
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    CapparwireCapparwire Posts: 2,135
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    Of course I do but for a whole country to turn from Labour to SNP to the put the party they have rejected into power must be unique surely.

    Yes it's about getting independence but the sheer number of the transition.

    How can people say we don't want Labour in Scotland but we gonna put you in power anyway.

    As we're in a union which gives us 59 MPs out of 650, the most we can to is elect MPs we think will represent our country best. We have no say in who is the biggest party otherwise, that's up to the rest of the UK

    You don't seem to be getting this political union thing - Scotland's a minority in it. For example, we rejected the Tories in 2010 and look who's in number 10
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    BrawladBrawlad Posts: 5,711
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    Of course I do but for a whole country to turn from Labour to SNP to the put the party they have rejected into power must be unique surely.

    Yes it's about getting independence but the sheer number of the transition.

    How can people say we don't want Labour in Scotland but we gonna put you in power anyway.
    It is about getting the maximum leverage under the present FPTP system.
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    steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    Capparwire wrote: »
    As we're in a union which gives us 59 MPs out of 650, the most we can to is elect MPs we think will represent our country best. We have no say in who is the biggest party otherwise, that's up to the rest of the UK

    Well put some SNP in England and gain more seats disillusioned English might just throw up a few surprises.
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    HildaonplutoHildaonpluto Posts: 37,697
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    Capparwire wrote: »
    As we're in a union which gives us 59 MPs out of 650, the most we can to is elect MPs we think will represent our country best. We have no say in who is the biggest party otherwise, that's up to the rest of the UK

    It's amazing how many people find Parliamentary democracy so hard to grasp!
    What if Scotland elected independent non party mps who happened to agree with independence? Would they question their legitimacy too? Barmy!
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    jenziejenzie Posts: 20,821
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    More newspaper style insults I see.

    oh i can do FAR WORSE than that ;-)
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    Ash_M1Ash_M1 Posts: 18,703
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    Capparwire wrote: »
    It seems to me that the english-based Lib Dems and Labour MPs are actually pretty reasonable about the SNP (the Tories characteristically aren't of course). But in scotland, the Labour MPs really seem to have detested the SNP beyond all reason since they lost out at Holyrood, and the Lib Dems seem to have adopted the strange line of saying that it's ok for Scottish MPs to exercise full rights as individuals, but that they shouldn't be allowed a say in government formation unless they're from London-based parties.

    Such weird times.

    A fair assessment. It is really strange. My assessment is this...the children (Labour / Lib Dem) are caught in the middle while their parents (KipCons & the SNP) get a divorce. It certainly feels like that in England.
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    AlbacomAlbacom Posts: 34,578
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    Ash_M1 wrote: »
    I absolutely agree. I've been saying the same all day. The game is fine all the time I'm winning, but when I'm not...

    I can only apologise for my fellow Englishman. Most of us are appauled at the behaviour of some of our politicians. They are not doing themselves any favours at all.

    You don't need to apologise for English people. We are entitled to our own opinion and have our own voice thank you.

    Believe it or not, not all of us English people share your outlook, infact most don't. You are way too left leaning and I think you'd even make the socialist Scots nervous!

    Yes, all politicians, with the exception of John Major and the DUP are behaving appallingly. The SNP are just as bad. Calling Major's speech an "affront to democracy" was totally wrong. Major never told anyone who to vote for. He simply warned of the dangers for Britain's stability if the SNP/Labour Alliance went ahead. That is just expressing an opinion, something he is entitled to do and it is up to the people to decide whether or not they want to heed his warning or not. That is democracy.

    I think this election campaign is the worst I've ever seen. It is lifeless and dull, partly because it seems like a foregone conclusion now, and partly because our politicians are dull. I will give Nicola Sturgeon credit though, she is the only one to show passion and gutsy attitude. She is the only one acting as if there's an election. The Tories are crumbling into a mess, Labour seem to have hidden away their liability, that is Ed Balls. I actually believe he is the single most damaging person in Britain and if Alex Salmond takes his job he'll do much better in my opinion.
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    Ash_M1Ash_M1 Posts: 18,703
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    Capparwire wrote: »
    As if her job wasn't hard enough lol. What I suspect is that tory HQ have written off scotland, and forgotten to tell their scottish delegates

    Oh no. How awful would that be. Someone ought to send Ruth a tweet to let her know.
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    bobbydbobbyd Posts: 3,388
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    :)Happy St Georges Day :)
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    Ash_M1Ash_M1 Posts: 18,703
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    Wolfman13 wrote: »
    No you're not wrong however I don't see the need for apologising. :)

    I see every need to apologise. I don't want the Scots, the Welsh or the Irish to think that all the English are like Cameron and Co.
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    rusty123rusty123 Posts: 22,872
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    The problem for Labour isn't that Cameron is supposedly whipping up
    English nationalism it's the fact that the Scots are turning their backs on Labour in droves.

    Somehow I don't think Cameron and the tories are the root cause of that
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    KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    wizzywick wrote: »
    You don't need to apologise for English people. We are entitled to our own opinion and have our own voice thank you.

    Believe it or not, not all of us English people share your outlook, infact most don't. You are way too left leaning and I think you'd even make the socialist Scots nervous!

    Yes, all politicians, with the exception of John Major and the DUP are behaving appallingly. The SNP are just as bad. Calling Major's speech an "affront to democracy" was totally wrong. Major never told anyone who to vote for. He simply warned of the dangers for Britain's stability if the SNP/Labour Alliance went ahead. That is just expressing an opinion, something he is entitled to do and it is up to the people to decide whether or not they want to heed his warning or not. That is democracy.

    I think this election campaign is the worst I've ever seen. It is lifeless and dull, partly because it seems like a foregone conclusion now, and partly because our politicians are dull. I will give Nicola Sturgeon credit though, she is the only one to show passion and gutsy attitude. She is the only one acting as if there's an election. The Tories are crumbling into a mess, Labour seem to have hidden away their liability, that is Ed Balls. I actually believe he is the single most damaging person in Britain and if Alex Salmond takes his job he'll do much better in my opinion.

    I simply cannot believe people will vote to put Balls back in charge of the Treasury!
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    KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    Ash_M1 wrote: »
    Oh no. How awful would that be. Someone ought to send Ruth a tweet to let her know.

    I feel sorry for her as she always strikes me as being an extremely articulate politician. She'd probably do better south of the border. She's wasted in Scotland.
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    CapparwireCapparwire Posts: 2,135
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    wizzywick wrote: »
    You don't need to apologise for English people. We are entitled to our own opinion and have our own voice thank you.

    Believe it or not, not all of us English people share your outlook, infact most don't. You are way too left leaning and I think you'd even make the socialist Scots nervous!

    Yes, all politicians, with the exception of John Major and the DUP are behaving appallingly. The SNP are just as bad. Calling Major's speech an "affront to democracy" was totally wrong. Major never told anyone who to vote for. He simply warned of the dangers for Britain's stability if the SNP/Labour Alliance went ahead. That is just expressing an opinion, something he is entitled to do and it is up to the people to decide whether or not they want to heed his warning or not. That is democracy.

    I think this election campaign is the worst I've ever seen. It is lifeless and dull, partly because it seems like a foregone conclusion now, and partly because our politicians are dull. I will give Nicola Sturgeon credit though, she is the only one to show passion and gutsy attitude. She is the only one acting as if there's an election. The Tories are crumbling into a mess, Labour seem to have hidden away their liability, that is Ed Balls. I actually believe he is the single most damaging person in Britain and if Alex Salmond takes his job he'll do much better in my opinion.

    John Major IS behaving appallingly , cf his bizarre comments about how Nicola Sturgeon shouldn't be speaking about this general election because she's not standing as an MP.

    The old duffer neglected to announce where HE'D be standing before making his comments about this general election....
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    CapparwireCapparwire Posts: 2,135
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    I feel sorry for her as she always strikes me as being an extremely articulate politician. She'd probably do better south of the border. She's wasted in Scotland.

    She wasn't this time last year, but she has improved dramatically probably thanks to her experience during the campaign last year. In Holyrood Tories are like declawed tigers in a cage though - fun to keep around, and even occasionally insightful, but you wouldn't want them escaping and breeding :D
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    Ash_M1Ash_M1 Posts: 18,703
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    Of course I do but for a whole country to turn from Labour to SNP to the put the party they have rejected into power must be unique surely.

    Yes it's about getting independence but the sheer number of the transition.

    How can people say we don't want Labour in Scotland but we gonna put you in power anyway.

    It is not strange at all. The Uk is made up of 600 plus seats spread across the union. The Tories and Labour (for now) are the two biggest parties. If they don't get enough to form a majority, they have to look at the other parties. It is obvious the parties Labour will look at, it's obvious the parties which the Tories will look at. Scotland is part of the union. It has 50 plus seats...it obviously can't run the union on it's own can it. It all makes perfect sense to me.
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    HildaonplutoHildaonpluto Posts: 37,697
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    Capparwire wrote: »
    John Major IS behaving appealingly, cf his bizarre comments about how Nicola Sturgeon shouldn't be speaking about this general election because she's not standing as an MP.

    The old duffer neglected to announce where HE'D be standing before making his comments about this general election....

    You mean appallingly?
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    steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    Ash_M1 wrote: »
    It is not strange at all. The Uk is made up of 600 plus seats spread across the union. The Tories and Labour (for now) are the two biggest parties. If they don't get enough to form a majority, they have to look at the other parties. It is obvious the parties Labour will look at, it's obvious the parties which the Tories will look at. Scotland is part of the union. It has 50 plus seats...it obviously can't run the union on it's own can it. It all makes perfect sense to me.

    I understand that but to be able to take the amount of people they are from one side to the other is no mean feat.
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    CapparwireCapparwire Posts: 2,135
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    You mean appallingly?

    LOL, I do. I am not Edwina currie
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    AlbacomAlbacom Posts: 34,578
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    I simply cannot believe people will vote to put Balls back in charge of the Treasury!

    I know. It's scary isn't it? I would rather Basil Brush be the Chancellor than Ed Balls. Even George Osbourne had guidance from Vince Cable. Ed Balls will be a loose cannon!
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    CapparwireCapparwire Posts: 2,135
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    I understand that but to be able to take the amount of people they are from one side to the other is no mean feat.

    Well the votes haven't been cast yet, but IF the SNP do as well as polls suggest, it's down to Labour's failings as well as the SNP's positivity. They've neglected scotland for decades, knowing they could safely chase votes in middle england and take scotland for granted, because we'd be scared enough of the Tories to vote for them in the blind hope it would help keep the Tories out.
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    KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    One of the main issues of course is the fact that the SNP in partnership with Labour will be voting at Westminster on issues that relate only to England and Wales and trying to influence policy that only affects England and Wales. It's hardly a surprise that this causes disgust amongst many of us south of the border.
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