Most people on here seem to hate them together so I was just wondering if there were any people on here who love them together? I know I do:D:D I thought Rose was better with Ten than when she was with Nine. I can't wait for them to come back for the 50th.
Yes. I thought BP was great with DT. Although, having re-watched a few of CE's Dr's stories on DVD this week just gone, I think possibly BP was better with CE.
I cried a lot when Rose was sucked into the Void that was the opening to the parrallel Earth. It was an emotional moment.
It would have really worked if Rose underwent some character development to change her from an older teenager into a young woman. That was clearly the problem with her life when she was introduced, and developing her into a more mature person would have benefited the story very much: the Doctor could have fallen more in love with her as she became more and more mature, and Rose could have fallen more in love with him as she noticed what he was doing for her, not to mention all the important lessons that could have been taught through such a story. The problem with the relationship as we saw it was not the age gap, but the massive gap in maturity; it is just so unrealistic that a 900+-year-old alien would fall in love with a 19-year-old human girl who acts like a 14-year-old (as I'd imagine someone with 900+ years of life experience wouldn't even begin to fall in love with someone that immature; if she were something like 25 and had her life in order, then it would have been conceivable). Unfortunately, we got no (or very little) character development and her character was left an immature teenager with a clingy crush on the Doctor. When she returned later, she was still the same as ever, so there wasn't even any off-screen development.
Nothing against the idea of having the Doctor romantically involved with people, but I feel that there was a lot of missed opportunity here.
It would have really worked if Rose underwent some character development to change her from an older teenager into a young woman. That was clearly the problem with her life when she was introduced, and developing her into a more mature person would have benefited the story very much: the Doctor could have fallen more in love with her as she became more and more mature, and Rose could have fallen more in love with him as she noticed what he was doing for her, not to mention all the important lessons that could have been taught through such a story. The problem with the relationship as we saw it was not the age gap, but the massive gap in maturity; it is just so unrealistic that a 900+-year-old alien would fall in love with a 19-year-old human girl who acts like a 14-year-old (as I'd imagine someone with 900+ years of life experience wouldn't even begin to fall in love with someone that immature; if she were something like 25 and had her life in order, then it would have been conceivable). Unfortunately, we got no (or very little) character development and her character was left an immature teenager with a clingy crush on the Doctor. When she returned later, she was still the same as ever, so there wasn't even any off-screen development.
Nothing against the idea of having the Doctor romantically involved with people, but I feel that there was a lot of missed opportunity here.
Yeah, this pretty much sums up my problem with Rose as well. I could have dealt with the way she was like an annoying teenage girl and the way she behaved towards Mickey and her mom early on if she had grown later, but I did not feel that she did at all. At least at the beginning of their stories I personally see a lot of parallels between Rose and Amy, both about the same age, both falling in love with the Doctor and pining over him while treating their boyfriends like garbage. But I would argue that we have seen Amy grow especially from the latter part of series 6 through The Angels Take Manhattan when she built a live with Rory and a career for herself. Of course she had the advantage that it has been 10 years for her and Rory traveling with the Doctor unlike for Rose who had a much shorter time that was rather tragically cut short. But still I would expect two years of traveling with the Doctor to rub off more than it did on her.
I think the partnership between the Ninth Doctor and Rose was more inspiring than that between the Tenth Doctor and Rose, but I could identify with Ten's relationship with each of his three main companions.
The romance wasn't overt to me (not at the time or in retrospect). Sometimes I think people have an exaggerated memory of the series.
The closest to it being overt before Doomsday was School Reunion when Ten stated he didn't like watching people he cared about "wither and die" and The Impossible Planet which IMO, were used to highlight the mortal/immortal conundrum and not inherently play up a romance.
Rose by contrast became a Mary Sue damsel in distress, rendered only important in relation to her man - even her family were not important enough to her by the end.
I'm trying to think of an episode in S2 where she is a damsel in distress and can only think of The Idiot's Lantern. Heck, Ten becomes a damsel in distress in Fear Her and Rose wields a pickaxe to rescue him.
And as for expecting someone to be happy with a clone of the person they love- well, best no go there at all;)
Metacrisis Ten is as much the same person as the Tenth Doctor as the Tenth Doctor is the same person as the Ninth Doctor.
Put it another way, why wouldn't Rose fall in love with him? He's a better match for her than probably any of Ten's other incarnations....
The romance wasn't overt to me (not at the time or in retrospect). Sometimes I think people have an exaggerated memory of the series.
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I agree with this. Sure there is an undercurrent of of a connection between them even throughout the 1st series but it is handful of lines every now and again, normally hints by people who meet them. I never found it overpowering. It isn't as if they are kissing every five minutes or declaring their undying love. It's an undercurrent of an immense bond and of how well they know and understand each other. Personally I never even equate it to the traditional love or lust humans feel for each other it was something a little purer than that.
As for why the Doctor might have such a connection with Rose? A million reasons. She was enthusiastic for live and wanted to travel and learn, she was open minded and resourceful, she was clearly intelligent whether or not she was knowledgeable, he met her at one of his lowest ebs and she was kind and thoughtful enough to give him a new zest for life and effectively shape the 10th Doctor, he was able to put 100% faith and trust in her. I could go on but all I will add is I found his bond a lot more believable than that he had with Reinette in the space on one episode because she read his mind.
I know that the soap opera slur is hurled at both versions of 21st Century Who. However I think what Moffat was aiming for, was Event Television. Who Shot JR?! Free the Weatherfield One! When Den tried to divorce Thingy on Christmas Day, very early on, plus that family of girls where one turned out to be another's mother (Ok, I confess, I've never watched Eastenders and haven't watched a soap in years, but that's the point - they are stories even I register, because they reach the front page rather than the relevant paragraph on the tv listings page). The most obvious example is "Luke - I am your father" - still talked about over 30 years later - which I presume is what River's "I'm your daughter" was supposed to replicate. How successful Moffat had been is definitely up for debate, however I do understand what he was trying to do. RTD's Who, on the other hand, was about the other 51 weeks a year of the soaps, which is all about going down the Market, what people are having for their tea, rows with parents, being bored by your job, who's moving out and (OMG!) who fancies who. Leave out the time travel and Rose's life was less interesting than mine.
I don't recognise that description at all. When was RTD's Who ever about such mundane stuff as going down the market, what people are having for tea etc? That's nonsense.
There was certainly a romantic storyline between Rose and the Doctor, but this was a thread running through stories that were dominated by the plot of each story. I know some people didn't like the romantic side being there at all, but let's not pretend it dominated everything.
It technically didn't dominate everything, but I think watching it over again with the knowledge of that love they have for each other as shown in "Journey's End" makes it less bearable to watch. I know that was the case for me. Watching it again, the fact that Rose was pretty underdeveloped distracted me from the main plot as it kept me trying to wrap my head around how someone like the Doctor could love someone so immature as much as he does.
I enjoyed David's whole run and I liked Rose on first viewing, but their relationship didn't hold up to repeat viewings for me. And this goes back to Hand Doctor; if Rose had been left as she was at the end of "Doomsday", then I'd be able to enjoy their relationship a lot more, as their love for each other was a lot less obvious until her reappearance in Series 4 (even Series 3 would be a lot more understandable if you look at it from the standpoint of Martha standing in the shadow of an old best friend rather than an old lover). The knowledge of what happens in "Journey's End" just skews all the Doctor's relationships with Rose and Martha in all the wrong directions, in my opinion.
I agree with Khof. She shouldn't have been brought back after Doomsday. The thing worked okay as a tragic story and left us capable of feeling the Doctor's loss.
Once the returns started she became the proverbial bad penny, or worse, the ex-girlfriend who still knows how to manipulate your heartstrings but leaves you feeling used.
Let's hope Moffat can write something to make her character engaging again.
I don't recognise that description at all. When was RTD's Who ever about such mundane stuff as going down the market, what people are having for tea etc?
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Well, in the Christmas Invasion Rose and Mickey went down the market. And Jackie was talking about having meat paste sandwiches.:D
Didn't last long, though. They were interrupted by a murderous brass band and a lethal Christmas tree. Not your usual Soap fare. :D
I like my main characters with a little bit of friction, a bit of frisson. Nine and Rose had it - he was prickly and she was a little bit uncertain of herself. By the second series, Rose had got herself quite comfortable and wasn't caught off-guard by anything any more, and the Doctor was a lot more light-hearted and fun - they were much more alike. That didn't interest me much until they threw Mickey back into the mix to shake things up again.
But I never found myself actively disliking either of them.
And yes, regardless of how popular Rose was, I don't think she really worked as the harbinger of doom they used her as in Series 4 - the plusses of seeing her again didn't outweigh the dilution of her character story. At this point though, I don't think seeing her again in November is going to make much difference.
I loved 10 & roses relationship. But on a second watch of the series it does feel like the doctors love for rose was in a more unconditional less romantic way, I liked the more subtle approach to their relationship. Whilst I love the idea of rose who had fallen in love with that incarnation getting a copy of him to spend her life with I think the beach scene was written in too much of a romantic in your face way. I think it many have worked better if they hadn't kissed after 10.5 said he loved her. Rose would have got her happy ending but their relationship would have been left to the imagination & fans could interpret it how they like. I also thought as much as I loved rtd the beach scene was badly written. Really didn't like the doctor watching rose kiss 10.5, it just doesn't sit right with me that rose would do that.
If they really needed to have Rose go off with Hand Doctor, it would have made a lot more sense for the Doctor to just take them to the parallel world, tell Hand Doctor "take care of her" and watch them walk out the TARDIS doors together before taking off back to the normal universe. Then we would have been able to speculate all sorts of things.
Still wish Rose just never appeared in Series 4 though, and I'd like to pretend the Bad Wolf Bay scene in "Journey's End" never happened.
Still wish Rose just never appeared in Series 4 though, and I'd like to pretend the Bad Wolf Bay scene in "Journey's End" never happened.
I'd like to pretend the Bad Wolf Bay scene in "Doomsday" never happened.
Few things in the entire half century history of Doctor Who have annoyed me more than the romantic relationship between the Tenth Doctor and Rose Tyler. :mad:
I'd like to pretend the Bad Wolf Bay scene in "Doomsday" never happened.
Few things in the entire half century history of Doctor Who have annoyed me more than the romantic relationship between the Tenth Doctor and Rose Tyler. :mad:
I haven't seen it in a while, but the scene in "Doomsday" was so much less in-your-face than the scene in "Journey's End", wasn't it? It's only when you watch it with the knowledge of what happens in "Journey's End" that it becomes painfully obvious, I think.
The one thing that bothered me most about the ending Rose/TenToo got in Journey's End was the fact that I never quite believed that TenToo was 100% exactly the same man as Ten himself. Through Donna's involvement in his creation he was not only part human (which enabled him to be more open with his feelings for Rose), but he IMO also partly had Donna's personality and it seemed to me that it was unfair to both Rose and to him that Ten just expected them to get a happy ending without ever giving this a thought and even more so I was annoyed that we were expected to accept that this never bothered either of them.
I'd like to pretend the Bad Wolf Bay scene in "Doomsday" never happened.
Few things in the entire half century history of Doctor Who have annoyed me more than the romantic relationship between the Tenth Doctor and Rose Tyler. :mad:
It did though, so you'll just have to live with it.
Also, without the Tenth Doctor and Rose, we wouldn't have had the other storylines that we've had over the years. Plus, Catherine Tate wouldn't have been cast as Donna, Freema Ageyman wouldn't have been Martha, and John Simm wouldn't have been the Master.
We have to thank Russel T. Davies for picking DT to play the Tenth Doctor, and for introducing both Donna and Martha.
It's thanks to RTD, that Doctor Who is where it is now, with 'the Moff' at the helm.
I found Rose incredibly irritating in series 2. The ending was excellent and well done....then they did it again and gave her a copy of the Doctor, which was RUBBISH. Then he says goodbye to her AGAIN during the long drawn out end of the tenth Doctor (which bored the crud out of me). Basically they were a good Doctor-companion pairing that suddenly became this big love story thing that just wouldn't end.
Rose & Tennant (the order is important) used to irritate the heck out of me in S2. At the time it seemed like RTD was making her "co-Doctor". Watching S2 years later I'm not finding her as cloying, but that said...
Rose in S4 was awful and pointless. Throughout the whole season they made her look like she had some "inside knowledge"...and then when she finally makes it "back" she's just a pouty ex-girlfriend turned stalker abusing universe-damaging technology, who ends up getting him shot and whines when he starts to regenerate. I mean come on..."Turn Left" made it look like she really had the inside scoop, right? And what followed...yechh. Even Davies as writer treated her badly with what he did to her in the end. Talk about a booby prize.
I have no idea what Rose in the 50th will be. Probably something more subdued than we are all expecting. Moffat was never as attached to the character as Davies was.
Rose & Tennant (the order is important) used to irritate the heck out of me in S2. At the time it seemed like RTD was making her "co-Doctor". Watching S2 years later I'm not finding her as cloying, but that said...
Rose in S4 was awful and pointless. Throughout the whole season they made her look like she had some "inside knowledge"...and then when she finally makes it "back" she's just a pouty ex-girlfriend turned stalker abusing universe-damaging technology, who ends up getting him shot and whines when he starts to regenerate. I mean come on..."Turn Left" made it look like she really had the inside scoop, right? And what followed...yechh. Even Davies as writer treated her badly with what he did to her in the end. Talk about a booby prize.
I have no idea what Rose in the 50th will be. Probably something more subdued than we are all expecting. Moffat was never as attached to the character as Davies was.
Why is the order important? Surely, it doesn't matter. It's just the Tenth Doctor and Rose. Yes, Rose was around with the Doctor before DT's Doctor came along, but the with me, the order isn't important.
It did though, so you'll just have to live with it.
Also, without the Tenth Doctor and Rose, we wouldn't have had the other storylines that we've had over the years. Plus, Catherine Tate wouldn't have been cast as Donna, Freema Ageyman wouldn't have been Martha, and John Simm wouldn't have been the Master.
We have to thank Russel T. Davies for picking DT to play the Tenth Doctor, and for introducing both Donna and Martha.
It's thanks to RTD, that Doctor Who is where it is now, with 'the Moff' at the helm.
I'd say it's more thanks to Verity Lambert and Sidney Newman than RTD.
And I would have had no problem with Donna, Martha or Simm's Master never having been in Doctor Who.
I liked Rose but I guess it could be because she was the first companion I watched. If Martha had been the first one I may have preferred her romance with the Doctor. I don't like the incessant companions flirting with the Doctor. I thought Donna was such a nice breath of fresh air because you could tell she loved the Doctor completely but it wasn't a romantic kind of love.
Hmm.. I thought the whole relationship part was ridiculous.. Ten was much more smitten with renette (sorry if that's spelt wrong) and i thought there was some great tragedy underplayed in that wonderful episode.. A mature, sophisticated woman with depth, albeit some questionable morals - but hey tehre's the frisson.. Then after all that he was suddenly 'in love' with this mundane, immature rose character again.. No, just seemed bolted on to me, didn't feel it at all.
Now then - in comparison - clara and 11?? Step back Rose/River et al - cos clara and 11 could have been dynamite... :eek:
Hmm.. I thought the whole relationship part was ridiculous.. Ten was much more smitten with renette (sorry if that's spelt wrong) and i thought there was some great tragedy underplayed in that wonderful episode.. A mature, sophisticated woman with depth, albeit some questionable morals - but hey tehre's the frisson.. Then after all that he was suddenly 'in love' with this mundane, immature rose character again.. No, just seemed bolted on to me, didn't feel it at all.
Now then - in comparison - clara and 11?? Step back Rose/River et al - cos clara and 11 could have been dynamite... :eek:
Well personally I had a lot more time and respect for Rose than I did for the vacuous Reinette.
Comments
Yes. I thought BP was great with DT. Although, having re-watched a few of CE's Dr's stories on DVD this week just gone, I think possibly BP was better with CE.
I cried a lot when Rose was sucked into the Void that was the opening to the parrallel Earth. It was an emotional moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynrr5fMpYTM&feature=player_detailpage#t=0s
I'm so looking forward to BP being in the 50th, even if she's in it for only a short bit, like ten, twenty minutes.
Nothing against the idea of having the Doctor romantically involved with people, but I feel that there was a lot of missed opportunity here.
Yeah, this pretty much sums up my problem with Rose as well. I could have dealt with the way she was like an annoying teenage girl and the way she behaved towards Mickey and her mom early on if she had grown later, but I did not feel that she did at all. At least at the beginning of their stories I personally see a lot of parallels between Rose and Amy, both about the same age, both falling in love with the Doctor and pining over him while treating their boyfriends like garbage. But I would argue that we have seen Amy grow especially from the latter part of series 6 through The Angels Take Manhattan when she built a live with Rory and a career for herself. Of course she had the advantage that it has been 10 years for her and Rory traveling with the Doctor unlike for Rose who had a much shorter time that was rather tragically cut short. But still I would expect two years of traveling with the Doctor to rub off more than it did on her.
The romance wasn't overt to me (not at the time or in retrospect). Sometimes I think people have an exaggerated memory of the series.
The closest to it being overt before Doomsday was School Reunion when Ten stated he didn't like watching people he cared about "wither and die" and The Impossible Planet which IMO, were used to highlight the mortal/immortal conundrum and not inherently play up a romance.
I'm trying to think of an episode in S2 where she is a damsel in distress and can only think of The Idiot's Lantern. Heck, Ten becomes a damsel in distress in Fear Her and Rose wields a pickaxe to rescue him.
Metacrisis Ten is as much the same person as the Tenth Doctor as the Tenth Doctor is the same person as the Ninth Doctor.
Put it another way, why wouldn't Rose fall in love with him? He's a better match for her than probably any of Ten's other incarnations....
I agree with this. Sure there is an undercurrent of of a connection between them even throughout the 1st series but it is handful of lines every now and again, normally hints by people who meet them. I never found it overpowering. It isn't as if they are kissing every five minutes or declaring their undying love. It's an undercurrent of an immense bond and of how well they know and understand each other. Personally I never even equate it to the traditional love or lust humans feel for each other it was something a little purer than that.
As for why the Doctor might have such a connection with Rose? A million reasons. She was enthusiastic for live and wanted to travel and learn, she was open minded and resourceful, she was clearly intelligent whether or not she was knowledgeable, he met her at one of his lowest ebs and she was kind and thoughtful enough to give him a new zest for life and effectively shape the 10th Doctor, he was able to put 100% faith and trust in her. I could go on but all I will add is I found his bond a lot more believable than that he had with Reinette in the space on one episode because she read his mind.
I don't recognise that description at all. When was RTD's Who ever about such mundane stuff as going down the market, what people are having for tea etc? That's nonsense.
There was certainly a romantic storyline between Rose and the Doctor, but this was a thread running through stories that were dominated by the plot of each story. I know some people didn't like the romantic side being there at all, but let's not pretend it dominated everything.
I enjoyed David's whole run and I liked Rose on first viewing, but their relationship didn't hold up to repeat viewings for me. And this goes back to Hand Doctor; if Rose had been left as she was at the end of "Doomsday", then I'd be able to enjoy their relationship a lot more, as their love for each other was a lot less obvious until her reappearance in Series 4 (even Series 3 would be a lot more understandable if you look at it from the standpoint of Martha standing in the shadow of an old best friend rather than an old lover). The knowledge of what happens in "Journey's End" just skews all the Doctor's relationships with Rose and Martha in all the wrong directions, in my opinion.
Once the returns started she became the proverbial bad penny, or worse, the ex-girlfriend who still knows how to manipulate your heartstrings but leaves you feeling used.
Let's hope Moffat can write something to make her character engaging again.
Well, in the Christmas Invasion Rose and Mickey went down the market. And Jackie was talking about having meat paste sandwiches.:D
Didn't last long, though. They were interrupted by a murderous brass band and a lethal Christmas tree. Not your usual Soap fare.
But I never found myself actively disliking either of them.
And yes, regardless of how popular Rose was, I don't think she really worked as the harbinger of doom they used her as in Series 4 - the plusses of seeing her again didn't outweigh the dilution of her character story. At this point though, I don't think seeing her again in November is going to make much difference.
Still wish Rose just never appeared in Series 4 though, and I'd like to pretend the Bad Wolf Bay scene in "Journey's End" never happened.
I'd like to pretend the Bad Wolf Bay scene in "Doomsday" never happened.
Few things in the entire half century history of Doctor Who have annoyed me more than the romantic relationship between the Tenth Doctor and Rose Tyler. :mad:
I haven't seen it in a while, but the scene in "Doomsday" was so much less in-your-face than the scene in "Journey's End", wasn't it? It's only when you watch it with the knowledge of what happens in "Journey's End" that it becomes painfully obvious, I think.
It did though, so you'll just have to live with it.
Also, without the Tenth Doctor and Rose, we wouldn't have had the other storylines that we've had over the years. Plus, Catherine Tate wouldn't have been cast as Donna, Freema Ageyman wouldn't have been Martha, and John Simm wouldn't have been the Master.
We have to thank Russel T. Davies for picking DT to play the Tenth Doctor, and for introducing both Donna and Martha.
It's thanks to RTD, that Doctor Who is where it is now, with 'the Moff' at the helm.
Rose in S4 was awful and pointless. Throughout the whole season they made her look like she had some "inside knowledge"...and then when she finally makes it "back" she's just a pouty ex-girlfriend turned stalker abusing universe-damaging technology, who ends up getting him shot and whines when he starts to regenerate. I mean come on..."Turn Left" made it look like she really had the inside scoop, right? And what followed...yechh. Even Davies as writer treated her badly with what he did to her in the end. Talk about a booby prize.
I have no idea what Rose in the 50th will be. Probably something more subdued than we are all expecting. Moffat was never as attached to the character as Davies was.
Why is the order important? Surely, it doesn't matter. It's just the Tenth Doctor and Rose. Yes, Rose was around with the Doctor before DT's Doctor came along, but the with me, the order isn't important.
I'd say it's more thanks to Verity Lambert and Sidney Newman than RTD.
And I would have had no problem with Donna, Martha or Simm's Master never having been in Doctor Who.
It is quite clear the poster was talking about New Who.
Now then - in comparison - clara and 11?? Step back Rose/River et al - cos clara and 11 could have been dynamite... :eek:
Well personally I had a lot more time and respect for Rose than I did for the vacuous Reinette.