Tories set to lose Britain second AAA credit rating

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  • Raring_to_goRaring_to_go Posts: 20,565
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    That graph:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_GDP.png ,

    really does show up the hyperbole for all it is.

    This country has been in more debt for the vast majority of the last 200+ years.

    As far as the Tories pulling us out of it goes, they are now hugely responsible for escalating any mess and putting us further into debt (and for not the first time either)..

    It’s a good graph.

    It shows what happened after the last instalment of the WW2 debt was paid in 2006, that’s when the Labour government lost the plot and started the rot leaving the UK in a poor state to respond to a world fiancial crisis.
  • GibsonSGGibsonSG Posts: 23,681
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    trunkster wrote: »
    Proof that we really are up shit creek, we have no industrial base that can make and export, and anyone who thinks labour has the answer is a deluded fool.

    True and light regulation of the financial sector over the last twenty five years has effectively destroyed it.
  • BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    GibsonSG wrote: »
    True and light regulation of the financial sector over the last twenty five years has effectively destroyed it.

    I don't agree totally.

    The fuel of unrestricted money has allowed society to progress technologically and socially more in the last 25 years than in any other period of history.

    Usually it takes a world war to do that.

    Either way, the price is still the same, huge debt followed by a period of austerity.
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    Debt as a percentage of GDP 2008

    Japan 167 %

    Italy 106.1

    Euro area 70.2 %

    USA 69 %

    Germany 66.8 %

    France 68.2 %

    UK 52.3 %


    What's your point?
  • GibsonSGGibsonSG Posts: 23,681
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    SULLA wrote: »
    What's your point?

    I think he is saying that is ours is lower than quite a few other countries. I am a bit confused by inclusion of the "euro area" when european countries have already been cited. Bit of a doubling up.
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    SULLA wrote: »
    What's your point?

    That our level of debt in 2008 was pretty much lower than all our economic contemporaries, in fact quite considerably lower than most.

    That doesn't quite fit in with the line of a decade of Labour over spending exuberance, does it?
  • roland ratroland rat Posts: 13,829
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    [quote=Jol44;64938602
    Britain set to lose second AAA credit rating

    George Osborne was served notice on Friday night that the UK's AAA credit status will be downgraded for a second time
    [/quote]

    I think the AAA credit rating will be even further downgraded by the autumn, and just intime for the george osbourned autumn statement, will be read by david cameron


    We now call forward a general election
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    That our level of debt in 2008 was pretty much lower than all our economic contemporaries, in fact quite considerably lower than most.

    That doesn't quite fit in with the line of a decade of Labour over spending exuberance, does it?

    You think that 52.3% of GDP is good?:eek:

    You think that allowing banks to operate like betting offices or casinos was good?
  • Nick1966Nick1966 Posts: 15,742
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    GibsonSG wrote: »
    I think he is saying that is ours is lower than quite a few other countries. I am a bit confused by inclusion of the "euro area" when european countries have already been cited. Bit of a doubling up.

    In his budget last Wednesday, George Osborne predicts that outstanding UK government debt will reach 85.6% of GDP by 2016-7.

    So, during Mr Osborne's tenure in office, UK government debt is going to by 50% from approx 50% of GDP to 75%. Based on this trend, expect UK government debt to exceed 100% of GDP during the next parliament.
  • Nick1966Nick1966 Posts: 15,742
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    That our level of debt in 2008 was pretty much lower than all our economic contemporaries, in fact quite considerably lower than most.

    Wiki paints a gloomier picture of UK government debt. Of the 27 member states, only Greece, Ireland, Italy, Belgium and Portugal having higher debt to GDP ratios.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eu_economy#Economies_of_member_states

    Indeed, of the EU countries outside the eurozone, the UK has the highest government debt and highest annual deficit.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 14,922
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    SULLA wrote: »
    You think that 52.3% of GDP is good?:eek:

    You think that allowing banks to operate like betting offices or casinos was good?

    That's the worldwide system, fractional reserve banking, applicable to things like gold and silver as well, derivatives and financial instruments Then there's the unregulated shadow banking that operates from London.

    How would you suggest it was changed?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,180
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    It’s a good graph.

    It shows what happened after the last instalment of the WW2 debt was paid in 2006, that’s when the Labour government lost the plot and started the rot leaving the UK in a poor state to respond to a world fiancial crisis.

    Yes, but a lot of the measures were to reduce poverty. Why did we need to reduce poverty?
  • MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    Nick1966 wrote: »

    So, during Mr Osborne's tenure in office, UK government debt is going to by 50% from approx 50% of GDP to 75%. Based on this trend, expect UK government debt to exceed 100% of GDP during the next parliament.

    Indeed - and to think that some people think we are not borrowing enough!
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    WindWalker wrote: »
    That's the worldwide system, fractional reserve banking, applicable to things like gold and silver as well, derivatives and financial instruments Then there's the unregulated shadow banking that operates from London.

    How would you suggest it was changed?

    In a way that they couldn't go bust would be helpful. :)
  • Phil 2804Phil 2804 Posts: 21,846
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    Majlis wrote: »
    Indeed - and to think that some people think we are not borrowing enough!

    We aren't borrowing for the right things. We're borrowing to cover from the epic economic failure of yet another Tory Government.

    Worse than that Osborne's not very well thought out mortgage guarantee plan leaves the taxpayer wide open to a US style sub prime meltdown. Wonderful. I wonder who'll be in power when the shit hits the fan over that bright idea. :rolleyes:
  • MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    Phil 2804 wrote: »
    We aren't borrowing for the right things. :

    Oh, so we are back to milibands 'good borrowing, bad borrowing' argument . Did he ever manage to work out the difference between a 'good company and bad company'?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 14,922
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    SULLA wrote: »
    In a way that they couldn't go bust would be helpful. :)

    Which would be? In your opinion.
  • Phil 2804Phil 2804 Posts: 21,846
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    Majlis wrote: »
    Oh, so we are back to milibands 'good borrowing, bad borrowing' argument . Did he ever manage to work out the difference between a 'good company and bad company'?

    Roads, rail, houses, regeneration. Its what the post war Governments, Labour and Tory, did after WW2 when our debt was at 250% of GDP.
  • MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    Phil 2804 wrote: »
    Roads, rail, houses, regeneration. Its what the post war Governments, Labour and Tory, did after WW2 when our debt was at 250% of GDP.

    Well as Darling was planning to spend about the same as Osborne is now, assuming he Invested significant amounts into those areas, what extra cuts would he have made in other areas? We know he was planning to cut NHS spending more, what else?
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    WindWalker wrote: »
    Which would be? In your opinion.

    Unless I give a source, it's always my opinion.
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    SULLA wrote: »
    You think that 52.3% of GDP is good?:eek:

    You think that allowing banks to operate like betting offices or casinos was good?

    Well, just to put it into perspective, our average debt over the last 250 years would be somewhere above that.
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    Nick1966 wrote: »
    Wiki paints a gloomier picture of UK government debt. Of the 27 member states, only Greece, Ireland, Italy, Belgium and Portugal having higher debt to GDP ratios.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eu_economy#Economies_of_member_states

    Indeed, of the EU countries outside the eurozone, the UK has the highest government debt and highest annual deficit.

    Indeed, today it is much higher than it was in 2008. A flat lining economy with any growth sucked out of it really hasn't helped things one bit.
  • skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,872
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    Glyn W wrote: »
    And it's very different from War Bonds.

    The purpose was the same the only difference was the bonds had a fixed term and the savings scheme did not , in WW2 the USA issued War Bonds ( or if you couldn't afford a full bond then savings stamps towards one) these could be cashed in at a later date with profit and the money during that time was used to fund the military.

    The UK used the National Savings Movement, you put your money into savings on which you would earn interest and the money saved ( or lent as they advertised it ) was used to fund the military.
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