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ED - Robert Sugden, evil monster? (Spoilers)

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    cyrilandshirleycyrilandshirley Posts: 48,569
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    abbottab wrote: »
    I'm sure they might remember the 90s.

    Yes, you can't really take it seriously.

    A one street village where a 1000 people live.

    There are more murderers and than there is in the midsomer murders.

    A pub with two punters and 40 staff.

    A salon run with 50 staff and no customers.

    3 vets than keep 2 animals from croaking it, because lets face it there are NO farmyard animals in sight.

    A wedding agency that seems to run on fresh air.

    A shop that is always closed yet ran by baffoons when it is attended to.

    A garage that seems to service every car in Yorkshire yet the staff that work there are always off shagging in the pickup.

    Have I forgotten anything...?

    The pigs have been putting in some lovely performances recently.

    I do miss the chickens though.
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    margarite6666margarite6666 Posts: 2,969
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    Is Robert so evil that he has to go? No idea, but he's damn entertaining to watch. I loathe him, but cheer him on. I adored all the stuff with King Cain tying him up and giving him a beating. Lord Bob is a cowardly, mean, acquisitive, cheating, manipulative bastard, he deserves a right royal smack ... and I love him. :)

    I've got no idea what kind of contract lovely Ryan Hawley will be on. Maybe it's not that long, he might want to go off and do other things. But I'm sure if he wants to stay longer, and Emmerdale want to keep him, they'll find a way to do it.

    I totally agree. Noted that some posters say people don't want Robert and Aaron together. But I have read so many posts on threads which makes me believe so many viewers are fickle. I can see the scenario where Chrissie attacks Aaron and Robert saves him: probably the first time he does something unselfish.

    I can't see him being killed off. That would be too much like Jackson and Aaron would jump off that quarry cliff. Plus I don't think viewers could cope with the deluge of Aaron's tears that would ensue!
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    babyloulou10babyloulou10 Posts: 39
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    Okay, lets get thinks straight... Robert is NOT a murder! Katie's death was accident, Robert was unaware of the loose floor boards. If you go and watch the preview clip for Thursday episode on ITV.com/emmerdale, there is a vital thing in that clip that has NOT been mentioned in any magazine or spoiler.
    Robert is drunk in the preview

    It’s so important what Robert is doing in the clip, before he hears Paddy's cries for help. Emmerdale is making the purposeful choice to create “wiggle room” with his morality and intentions. They are purposefully giving the audience a way to partially excuse/explain his behavior (other than “evil,” which doesn’t suit him). It’s not just that he's ....... in the clip – but that he is upset, too. He isn’t in a good enough mental state to make a logical, moral decision. This is them making sure he isn’t a clear-cut villain or a plain, one-dimensional murderer. Like Cameron was, Cameron was a cold-blooded murder, who physically killed someone, Carl, Alex and Gennie... to name a few. Cameron caved in Carl's brain, strangled Alex and suffocated Gennie. All of theses acts were pure evil, non were accidents. Unlike Cameron, the writers are leaving the door for Robert open for redemption, because deep down Robert is a good person. Aaron's since his good side, it's just Robert acts before he thinks.

    Just like Aaron, in October 2009 before Aaron came out at gay, he cut the brakes on Carl's car and wanted him dead. Aaron's not a murder. They've both done this they regret, so they are eval.
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    cyrilandshirleycyrilandshirley Posts: 48,569
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    I totally agree. Noted that some posters say people don't want Robert and Aaron together. But I have read so many posts on threads which makes me believe so many viewers are fickle. I can see the scenario where Chrissie attacks Aaron and Robert saves him: probably the first time he does something unselfish.

    I can't see him being killed off. That would be too much like Jackson and Aaron would jump off that quarry cliff. Plus I don't think viewers could cope with the deluge of Aaron's tears that would ensue!

    God, I wish he would. :D Not an Aaron fan. I enjoy Robert's scheming - but I don't give a monkey's what happens to him and Aaron.
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    Soapfan678Soapfan678 Posts: 3,352
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    craig_25 wrote: »
    Maybe she thinks it's about time Emmerdale gets the recognition it deserves?! I for one agree.

    I agree.:)
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    Soapfan678Soapfan678 Posts: 3,352
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    Robert isn't a monster but he is an opportunist. I think Ryan is far superior to the other Roberts too. Loving him.

    I agree. I am not sure if Ryan is the better actor than the previous one playing Robert, or it is because this Robert is getting better material? Please don't kill off Robert in the stunt.
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    Soapfan678Soapfan678 Posts: 3,352
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    Any evidence that this is all she cares about or are you just spouting your usual Oates-hating rubbish?

    She's been the best producer in years, Robert's a truly complex character - the most interesting baddie in any soap I've seen in a long time.



    Like who?

    Good points. I couldn't agree more.:) Emmerdale is far more exciting and fun to watch under Kate Oates, than it ever was with Stuart Blackburn. I found Stuart Blackburn's reign so depressing. The only plot I really enjoyed from Blackburn's era was the Cameron one
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    Dress to KillDress to Kill Posts: 6,209
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    Soapfan678 wrote: »
    I agree. I am not sure if Ryan is the better actor than the previous one playing Robert, or it is because this Robert is getting better material? Please don't kill off Robert in the stunt.

    I personally think Ryan's the superior actor. If you see Ryan normally, in interviews etc. (not that there are many) he's actually quite shy and reserved, he's a complete parallel to Robert which is actually quite scary with how good he is at playing a sinister character.

    I mean, the guy took his Chihuahua with him to the Soap Awards taking his dog bed with him :blush::p
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    Soapfan678Soapfan678 Posts: 3,352
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    I personally think Ryan's the superior actor. If you see Ryan normally, in interviews etc. (not that there are many) he's actually quite shy and reserved, he's a complete parallel to Robert which is actually quite scary with how good he is at playing a sinister character.

    I mean, the guy took his Chihuahua with him to the Soap Awards taking his dog bed with him :blush::p

    Yep, I do think Ryan is a brilliant actor and prefer him to Karl Davies. I am just saying the material Ryan is getting is far better than the material Karl Davies got.:) I only remember Robert doing the dirty on Andy with Katie, under Karl Davies.:D Hope Ryan is nominated for soap awards. He does deserve to be nominated.
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    Soapfan678Soapfan678 Posts: 3,352
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    Hope the Robert fans are going to vote for Ryan as the best necomer:D

    http://www.tvchoicemagazine.co.uk/awards/2015/vote
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    star89star89 Posts: 24,163
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    Okay, lets get thinks straight... Robert is NOT a murder! Katie's death was accident, Robert was unaware of the loose floor boards. If you go and watch the preview clip for Thursday episode on ITV.com/emmerdale, there is a vital thing in that clip that has NOT been mentioned in any magazine or spoiler.
    Robert is drunk in the preview

    It’s so important what Robert is doing in the clip, before he hears Paddy's cries for help. Emmerdale is making the purposeful choice to create “wiggle room” with his morality and intentions. They are purposefully giving the audience a way to partially excuse/explain his behavior (other than “evil,” which doesn’t suit him). It’s not just that he's ....... in the clip – but that he is upset, too. He isn’t in a good enough mental state to make a logical, moral decision. This is them making sure he isn’t a clear-cut villain or a plain, one-dimensional murderer. Like Cameron was, Cameron was a cold-blooded murder, who physically killed someone, Carl, Alex and Gennie... to name a few. Cameron caved in Carl's brain, strangled Alex and suffocated Gennie. All of theses acts were pure evil, non were accidents. Unlike Cameron, the writers are leaving the door for Robert open for redemption, because deep down Robert is a good person. Aaron's since his good side, it's just Robert acts before he thinks.

    I'd hate to meet a bad person :o
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    hypergreenfroghypergreenfrog Posts: 1,323
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    star89 wrote: »
    I'd hate to meet a bad person :o

    I think what babylou is trying to say is that the writing for Robert's character is deliberately kept ambigious, rather than outright evil.

    If he was meant to be a coldblooded killer, we would not have seen him panic after Katie's death, nor many other scenes that showed him vulnerable.

    The previews for the Paddy incident show the same story - Robert is given a bit of an "excuse" for his actions, to allow him to remain a redeemable character.
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    sheepiefarmsheepiefarm Posts: 27,589
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    In what world does being drunk exonerate your actions from trying to kill someone :confused:
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    star89star89 Posts: 24,163
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    I think what babylou is trying to say is that the writing for Robert's character is deliberately kept ambigious, rather than outright evil.

    If he was meant to be a coldblooded killer, we would not have seen him panic after Katie's death, nor many other scenes that showed him vulnerable.

    The previews for the Paddy incident show the same story - Robert is given a bit of an "excuse" for his actions, to allow him to remain a redeemable character.

    Yes, I got the jist.. but calling him a good person is a tad strong (downright ridiculous is more accurate.) Whilst I agree that Robert is not (yet) a cold blooded murderer he's still a nasty individual. Yes, he panicked once Katie had died but not enough to tell his brother the truth and take his punishment. Katie is still dead and all because of him.
    What if Aaron hadn't of called out the moment Robert almost bashed Chas' head in? He also arranged for her to be killed and only stopped the guy when he 'no longer needed her dead' not because he couldn't go through with it. And now Paddy.. And I'm sorry but there is no ''excuse'' for any of those things. His only reason for all this is to keep his and Aaron's fling a secret. Normal people do not want others dead just to hide their dirty secrets. IMO Robert is evil.
    In what world does being drunk exonerate your actions from trying to kill someone :confused:

    Robron world :o
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    WhatYouGonnaDo?WhatYouGonnaDo? Posts: 6,014
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    In what world does being drunk exonerate your actions from trying to kill someone :confused:

    None. But I think the point being made is that the OP asked is he being turned into an evil monster/cold blooded killer. But the state that he is in when what happens on Thursday happens does not support that theory.

    I mean it is highly doubtful it is even a murder attempt at all, watching the preview supports the jist of what I got from all the promo interviews with the actor who plays Paddy which is that Robert is drunk, upset, angry with Paddy and sees an opportunity to frighten him and takes it.
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    WhatYouGonnaDo?WhatYouGonnaDo? Posts: 6,014
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    star89 wrote: »
    Yes, I got the jist.. but calling him a good person is a tad strong (downright ridiculous is more accurate.) Whilst I agree that Robert is not (yet) a cold blooded murderer he's still a nasty individual. Yes, he panicked once Katie had died but not enough to tell his brother the truth and take his punishment. Katie is still dead and all because of him.
    What if Aaron hadn't of called out the moment Robert almost bashed Chas' head in? He also arranged for her to be killed and only stopped the guy when he 'no longer needed her dead' not because he couldn't go through with it. And now Paddy.. And I'm sorry but there is no ''excuse'' for any of those things. His only reason for all this is to keep his and Aaron's fling a secret. Normal people do not want others dead just to hide their dirty secrets. IMO Robert is evil.



    Robron world :o

    BIB not actually true. He found out Chas wasn't going to tell Chrissie pretty soon after phoning the hitman and immediately tried to stop it but he couldn't get hold of the guy and was going to let it go ahead, he was also a nervous wreck and spent most the day questioning if it was the right thing to do.

    He actually stopped it (as in chased the guy down and literally stopped it) because Aaron told him he needed his mum *well duh Robert:p*

    Robert is not a nice person but he hasn't done anything that makes him irredeemable yet and when he crosses a line you see signs that he knows a line is being crossed and is in some way torn about it. Which makes him very interesting and compelling. I would rather they kept him grey than made him black or white (in the moral sense)
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    sheepiefarmsheepiefarm Posts: 27,589
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    None. But I think the point being made is that the OP asked is he being turned into an evil monster/cold blooded killer. But the state that he is in when what happens on Thursday happens does not support that theory.

    I mean it is highly doubtful it is even a murder attempt at all, watching the preview supports the jist of what I got from all the promo interviews with the actor who plays Paddy which is that Robert is drunk, upset, angry with Paddy and sees an opportunity to frighten him and takes it.
    I haven't watched any previews - so I'll just wait to see how it plays out - bearing in mind, previews are designed to pique people's interest.


    So, Robert is upset & angry with Paddy - why? - because he got caught with his pants down (again!) - cheating on his wife - a wife, which the narrative would suggest, he is only interested in because of her wealth

    Highly doubtful that it's a murder attempt :confused:
    Wow - some people seriously need to take their rose tinted spectacles off.

    Robert is intelligent enough to know the seriousness of his actions (drunk or otherwise) - this makes his actions pre-meditated - he doesn't turn the machine on by "accident".


    Robert's actions are all "self-serving"
    He does everything he does to protect what
    He has
    He wants
    He thinks is best



    I hope to god Kate Oates isn't gonna turn this into some horrible cliched old tripe about Robert's actions all being exonerated simply because he's some desperate closet case who only needs the love of a good man to change his ways.
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    WhatYouGonnaDo?WhatYouGonnaDo? Posts: 6,014
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    I haven't watched any previews - so I'll just wait to see how it plays out - bearing in mind, previews are designed to pique people's interest.


    So, Robert is upset & angry with Paddy - why? - because he got caught with his pants down (again!) - cheating on his wife - a wife, which the narrative would suggest, he is only interested in because of her wealth

    Highly doubtful that it's a murder attempt :confused:
    Wow - some people seriously need to take their rose tinted spectacles off.

    Robert is intelligent enough to know the seriousness of his actions (drunk or otherwise) - this makes his actions pre-meditated - he doesn't turn the machine on by "accident".



    I hope to god Kate Oates isn't gonna turn this into some horrible cliched old tripe about Robert's actions all being exonerated simply because he's some desperate closet case who only needs the love of a good man to change his ways.

    BIB 1: Well we know that Paddy and Robert have a confrontation before this scene and Paddy lets rip at him and possibly hits a few nerves and also Robert is a control freak who clearly wants to be with Aaron (on his terms mind) and quite clearly this is a situation Aaron's loved ones just aren't content to let him control (good on them too I say, they are looking out for their son) so yeah I would guess he is pretty damn upset and frustrated and angry and drunk and...

    BIB2: I have no rose tinted glasses thank you, Robert is a Grade A *beep* but I have actually seen the preview, you haven't and I can read and interpret what an actors says about a story line pretty damn well. You are assuming intent to kill, while several description of what happens suggest that Robert intends to scare the life out of Paddy as pay back for interfering in his life.
    Or maybe I am wrong in that and there is a moment of Robert thinking he could kill him but
    as we know Paddy doesn't die it would suggest that he doesn't go through with it.
    Which again relates back to the OP question of is he an evil monster and suggest no he isn't. But he is certainly not a very nice person.
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    sarah_shortsarah_short Posts: 1,173
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    Okay, lets get thinks straight... Robert is NOT a murder! Katie's death was accident, Robert was unaware of the loose floor boards. .

    The point is, he behaved like a cold blooded murder, both with his reaction to Katie dying and then the cover-up/clean-up.
    Remember, Katie was going to leave the barn and that is when Robert got physically aggressive and shoved Katie back. To me, that shove showed he was not going to let her go and spill the beans. He would have gone on to kill her and cover it up.
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    Sorcha_27Sorcha_27 Posts: 138,852
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    Soapfan678 wrote: »
    I agree. I am not sure if Ryan is the better actor than the previous one playing Robert, or it is because this Robert is getting better material? Please don't kill off Robert in the stunt.

    I think partially because Ryan looks more like a toff than Karl did that that's part of why I find robert so watchable. He has shades of Nathan Wylde about him who I loved but is a better actor.

    Also I love how he Aaron on a little string. He's like some kind of aaron cry baby puppet master :D
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,370
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    I haven't watched any previews - so I'll just wait to see how it plays out - bearing in mind, previews are designed to pique people's interest.


    So, Robert is upset & angry with Paddy - why? - because he got caught with his pants down (again!) - cheating on his wife - a wife, which the narrative would suggest, he is only interested in because of her wealth

    Highly doubtful that it's a murder attempt :confused:
    Wow - some people seriously need to take their rose tinted spectacles off.

    Robert is intelligent enough to know the seriousness of his actions (drunk or otherwise) - this makes his actions pre-meditated - he doesn't turn the machine on by "accident".


    Robert's actions are all "self-serving"
    He does everything he does to protect what
    He has
    He wants
    He thinks is best



    I hope to god Kate Oates isn't gonna turn this into some horrible cliched old tripe about Robert's actions all being exonerated simply because he's some desperate closet case who only needs the love of a good man to change his ways.
    I think it is. Turning on the machine was certainly no accident
    and when Paddy is incapacitated he makes no attempt to turn it off.
    There's more to come - but still embargoed.
    Robert is rotten to the core and Aaron's eyes will be well and truly opened
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    cyrilandshirleycyrilandshirley Posts: 48,569
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    Soapfan678 wrote: »
    Hope the Robert fans are going to vote for Ryan as the best necomer:D

    http://www.tvchoicemagazine.co.uk/awards/2015/vote

    Done! Skipped most of the categories though. God, TV is terrible! Cast a few votes for Poldark. :cool:
    I hope to god Kate Oates isn't gonna turn this into some horrible cliched old tripe about Robert's actions all being exonerated simply because he's some desperate closet case who only needs the love of a good man to change his ways.

    *bokes*
    I think partially because Ryan looks more like a toff than Karl did that that's part of why I find robert so watchable. He has shades of Nathan Wylde about him who I loved but is a better actor.

    Also I love how he Aaron on a little string. He's like some kind of aaron cry baby puppet master :D

    :D That's the only way Robert and Aaron even vaguely work for me. Robert yanks Aaron's chain so effectively (not a double entendre). A joy to behold.
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    samcains90samcains90 Posts: 4,566
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    I totally agree. Noted that some posters say people don't want Robert and Aaron together. But I have read so many posts on threads which makes me believe so many viewers are fickle. I can see the scenario where Chrissie attacks Aaron and Robert saves him: probably the first time he does something unselfish.

    I can't see him being killed off. That would be too much like Jackson and Aaron would jump off that quarry cliff. Plus I don't think viewers could cope with the deluge of Aaron's tears that would ensue!

    That would still be a selfish act since he wouldn't be doing it to help Aaron but so he did not lose Aaron.
    None. But I think the point being made is that the OP asked is he being turned into an evil monster/cold blooded killer. But the state that he is in when what happens on Thursday happens does not support that theory.

    I mean it is highly doubtful it is even a murder attempt at all, watching the preview supports the jist of what I got from all the promo interviews with the actor who plays Paddy which is that Robert is drunk, upset, angry with Paddy and sees an opportunity to frighten him and takes it.

    Some people really need to take their blinkers off concerning Robert. Robert tries to bury Paddy alive in the grain!
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    star89star89 Posts: 24,163
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    BIB not actually true. He found out Chas wasn't going to tell Chrissie pretty soon after phoning the hitman and immediately tried to stop it but he couldn't get hold of the guy and was going to let it go ahead, he was also a nervous wreck and spent most the day questioning if it was the right thing to do.

    He actually stopped it (as in chased the guy down and literally stopped it) because Aaron told him he needed his mum *well duh Robert:p*

    Robert is not a nice person but he hasn't done anything that makes him irredeemable yet and when he crosses a line you see signs that he knows a line is being crossed and is in some way torn about it. Which makes him very interesting and compelling. I would rather they kept him grey than made him black or white (in the moral sense)

    A normal person does not need 'all day' to question if it was the right thing to do. It wouldn't cross a normal person's mind to have someone murdered.
    Ok so he stopped it because Aaron 'needed his mum' how does that make Robert any better? He should have stopped it because it was murder!!

    His actions might not be irredeemable to you but they certainly are to me.

    I like Robert (well the character) and hope he stays in ED for a long time. Makes great TV :)
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    WhatYouGonnaDo?WhatYouGonnaDo? Posts: 6,014
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    samcains90 wrote: »
    That would still be a selfish act since he wouldn't be doing it to help Aaron but so he did not lose Aaron.



    Some people really need to take their blinkers off concerning Robert. Robert tries to bury Paddy alive in the grain!

    I don't have any blinkers lmao I know he is a *beep* as for "tries to bury Paddy alive in the grain" well we don't know that he does do we? we know he switches the grain on and then hangs around while Paddy struggles to get out. We don't know if his intention is to kill Paddy or if it is to give him a fright and he intends to switch it off before anything happens. That is what we need to wait and find out. My feeling just from what Paddy has said in interviews is that it is the later
    that Paddy doesn't die supports this
    but if it turns out to be the former then I guess we know that Robert is willing to cross that line and is evil monster as the OP asked. We will see.
    star89 wrote: »
    A normal person does not need 'all day' to question if it was the right thing to do. It wouldn't cross a normal person's mind to have someone murdered.
    Ok so he stopped it because Aaron 'needed his mum' how does that make Robert any better? He should have stopped it because it was murder!!


    His actions might not be irredeemable to you but they certainly are to me.

    I like Robert (well the character) and hope he stays in ED for a long time. Makes great TV :)

    BIB well quite lol I'm not sure what your point is. Robert isn't a normal person he is twisted and his moral compass is broken. I don't think many on this thread would claim otherwise. That is what makes him an interesting character. The world isn't black and white and I don't want it being depicted as such in my soaps or any other dramas I watch. He contemplated murder didn't go through with it, will possibly contemplate murder again next week
    and won't go through with it again
    so we know he has that darkness inside him.
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