Employment Support Allowance(Income Based) Re: Joint Tenant?
On the ESA3 form it asks 'Do you share the rent or mortgage for the place where you live with anyone else?' If the answer is yes - does a claimant have to go into detail about that person further on in the form where it talks about other people who live with you.
Further on in the form it states 'Do any other people live in your household who you may not have already told us about? Well, the joint tenant was mentioned earlier on in the form with the words 'joint tenant' placed in brackets?
My understanding is that you remain classed as a single person even if you share a joint tenancy and the joint tenant pays half the rent and all other utility bills. Also, that a joint tenant is not classed as a non dependent. Finding it all a bit confusing?
Further on in the form it states 'Do any other people live in your household who you may not have already told us about? Well, the joint tenant was mentioned earlier on in the form with the words 'joint tenant' placed in brackets?
My understanding is that you remain classed as a single person even if you share a joint tenancy and the joint tenant pays half the rent and all other utility bills. Also, that a joint tenant is not classed as a non dependent. Finding it all a bit confusing?
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Don't think you read my original post properly? The joint tenant has already been mentioned early on in the form. My point is, do I have to go into further detail later on in the form about a joint tenant?
Was really hoping for imput from someone who actually knows about the ESA3 form and the joint tenant rule as opposed to someone offering an opinion.
I think the focus of the question is whether they would be classed as single i.e. not "married" for income purposes. Even if two (or more) people are sharing a house and each paying towards rent etc.
Used to be if you had your own room and were obviously simply house sharing then you where considered as single. My experience is from a good few years ago though.
A joint tenant is NOT classed as a non dependent. Therefore, no deductions are to be made from any ESA award is my understanding. I just need advice on a specific part of filling in the form as stated in my original post.
I think it's quite simple really if it asks you about a joint tenant and you have one answer the question and give their details. You will get more help if you weren't so aggressive. If you want expert advice about the form speak to a professional about it.
As this means they are classed as a dependant then there will be a deduction
Reduction in payments
a person moves into more expensive accommodation while on ESA(IR), Income Support, JSA or Pension Credit or during a short break between periods on any of those benefits;
a person occupies accommodation too big for her/him and family;
the area where the accommodation is located is more expensive than other areas where suitable accommodation is available or the outgoings are higher than on other properties in the area suitable to a person’s needs;
a person has non-dependants living in the house (ie people for whom the person is not claiming benefit). A deduction is made for each non-dependant in the home. If a non-dependent couple is residing with the person, only one non-dependant deduction will be made.
I know nothing else about your personal circumstances so cannot advise you about your potential entitlement to the extra premium.However for a start you would need to be in receipt of DLA (middle or higher rate care) or PIP daily living component (at either rate) to be eligible, as well as satisfying a number of other rules, one of which is that you have to technically count as living alone (with a number of exceptions applying to this rule.
In short, therefore if you have other people living with you it would be advisable to complete the details the form requests as you could be entitled to some additional money. Hope that helps.
Many thanks for that info - much appreciated. Didn't realise that section 'people living with you' was in relation to DLA as I can't see mention of that on the ESA3 form. I knew a joint tenant was not classed as a 'non dependent' so no deductions would be made in relation to a basic ESA claim - not withstanding the DLA aspect of it.
Another point to that question (apart from DLA etc) is to cover all the bases. There are various types of house-share, from marriage to grown-up kids, to lodgers, to ... blah blah. The DWP are just making sure there's no wriggle room if there's someone there to help out financially and that question is a catch-all.
It's like the "Money coming in" section. They list about 40,000 different types of income (okay, I exaggerated there
Yes, that's the way I understand the question. In other words, when you live with a 'joint tenant' who is not your partner, you continue to be classed as single and crucially remain so for benefit assessment purposes.
The income of the joint tenant is irrelevant with regard to income in relation to the person claiming the benefit and is not taken into account or any deductions made. If the joint tenant wished to claim, they would be required to do so in their own right individually. I think I've got that right?
BIB: That's not what it's saying. It's simply a catch-all - "have we failed to ask sufficient questions to cover all the bases? Do you have anyone else apart from those mentioned earlier living with you?" You asked if you had to mention your joint tenant twice on the form. You don't, unless it says, "Now we'll ask you more info about the person you stated as living with you."
About your last question: a joint tenant's income etc:
I've never been a joint tenant myself, so therefore never had to claim as one, so I can't answer that. I've filled in the forms, though, and that's what I drew from.
However, I would have thought you were right, yes. You're essentially two strangers sharing the same living space.
I think you'd have to prove to the DWP that you were two separate entities (rent, shopping, bills etc) to get your full entitlement, otherwise they might want to consider your co-tenant as a kind of carer for you. (The lone-person award for ESA, if you're on DLA, will be denied if any care goes on by a person living with you so you have to prove you're strangers to each other, sort of thing.)
I'd get in touch with CAB if you don't get the result you're entitled to.
Thanks for that - much appreciated. When I know more, I'll probably provide an update to this thread. You never know, it might just be useful for someone in a similar position.
On the CAB, my local one has proved quite useless. I think they're so overstretched they haven't the time to help everyone properly.
You're welcome, and I wish you luck. If your local CAB can't help, perhaps you've got a Welfare Rights Officer attached to your local council? I used the service myself a couple of times, and they were brilliant on my behalf (both times appealing ATOS decisions).
You're right in that an update might prove useful. I did a bit of browsing, trying to find out the DWP's stance on joint tenancies and ESA, and there's not much at all. A bit about who is classed as non-dependents, etc, and Housing Benefit, but nothing about how you'd go on with ESA.
There is a lack of info on joint tenancies for sure, and yet I imagine it must affect quite a lot of people. BTW, thanks for the advice about contacting my local Welfare Rights Officer, I'll certainly look into that.