Exactly why is he not a saint, you total maverick, you?
You're the only person in this thread who is treating it like a Troll thing. And your comma is in the wrong place.
I just think that he could intervene, as the most revered man in South Africa, and call for a more equal society. It may not work but people in South Africa listen to him- he is about the most important South African that ever lived. I'm sure his opinion would be valued.
Thats horrific but interesting as it mirrors what I have heard is happening to white South Africans.
My girlfriend's dad is a White South African but came to Britain in the sixties when he was only a baby. He still has family in South Africa and says of the horror stories they hear (the mutilation of children, attacks on elderly farmers, regular rapes) that affect white people.
It seems that something as poisonous as Apartheid has infected South Africa with a culture of violence, that once was directed at the black citizens and is now inherently affecting everyone.
As interesting as it is, I've never heard of it happening to white South Africans. Ever. The closest I can get is Zimbabwe, and there, the black Africans are suffering worse under a senile dictator, on a par with North Korea.
As interesting as it is, I've never heard of it happening to white South Africans. Ever. The closest I can get is Zimbabwe, and there, the black Africans are suffering worse under a senile dictator, on a par with North Korea.
Its a very good link- and I agree with your point regarding black people in Zimbabwe. EVERYBODY will suffer in that country whilst that evil old man is in charge.
Just because the media doesn't publicise the attacks, it doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're the only person in this thread who is treating it like a Troll thing. And your comma is in the wrong place.
I just think that he could intervene, as the most revered man in South Africa, and call for a more equal society. It may not work but people in South Africa listen to him- he is about the most important South African that ever lived. I'm sure his opinion would be valued.
It's in the right place, separation of a clause to question the original maker of a statement.
Interverne how? He's about 93. He was in jail for nearly 30 years. What are you expecting? There is a more equal society i.e. the actual native inhabitants have the same rights as the people whose ancestors killed them and stole their land, even though most of them still live in dirt shit conditions.
Apparently too much for you.
You should be doing more GCSE History revision, shouldn't you?
It's in the right place, separation of a clause to question the original maker of a statement.
Interverne how? He's about 93. He was in jail for nearly 30 years. What are you expecting? There is a more equal society i.e. the actual native inhabitants have the same rights as the people whose ancestors killed them and stole their land, even though most of them still live in dirt shit conditions.
Apparently not enough for you.
You should be doing more GCSE History revision, shouldn't you?
Yes, he's 93 but he still speaks out on certain issues.
I'm sorry- but I think the settlers, although their behaviour was far from admirable, built valuable infastructure within South Africa, that, without that infastructure, would be in even more of a mess than it is now.
It's in the right place, separation of a clause to question the original maker of a statement.
Interverne how? He's about 93. He was in jail for nearly 30 years. What are you expecting? There is a more equal society i.e. the actual native inhabitants have the same rights as the people whose ancestors killed them and stole their land, even though most of them still live in dirt shit conditions.
Apparently too much for you.
You should be doing more GCSE History revision, shouldn't you?
Funny how scorn is poured upon 'native' Britons but not upon 'native' Africans.
If Africa is the cradle of humanity then any race has the right to claim power.
It's in the right place, separation of a clause to question the original maker of a statement.
Interverne how? He's about 93. He was in jail for nearly 30 years. What are you expecting? There is a more equal society i.e. the actual native inhabitants have the same rights as the people whose ancestors killed them and stole their land, even though most of them still live in dirt shit conditions.
Apparently too much for you.
You should be doing more GCSE History revision, shouldn't you?
And to be honest, he was in prison for just reasons. He organised bombing campaigns in order to publiicise the ANC and he admitted he targeted civillians. Just because he looks cuddly and affable doesn't mean he is.
You're the only person in this thread who is treating it like a Troll thing. And your comma is in the wrong place.
I just think that he could intervene, as the most revered man in South Africa, and call for a more equal society. It may not work but people in South Africa listen to him- he is about the most important South African that ever lived. I'm sure his opinion would be valued.
You are expecting a lot from the man, he is not God.
Apartheid caused a lot of very deep seated problems which no one can fix overnight.
By its nature, it was the most divisive system that has ever been invented by any (evil) mind. Why do think it is still mentioned even now?
South Africa is now reaping the fruits of this and of course innocent people will be caught up in this too, like so happens in a lot of cases.
It really makes you wonder what those who devised Apartheid thought of their little system. How did they think it would all end? Did they think people would just take it and not fight back?... hey men has always fought back against oppression since time immemorial.
It will take a long time to heal the wounds of Apartheid IMHO.
And to be honest, he was in prison for just reasons. He organised bombing campaigns in order to publiicise the ANC and he admitted he targeted civillians. Just because he looks cuddly and affable doesn't mean he is.
It's in the right place, separation of a clause to question the original maker of a statement.
Interverne how? He's about 93. He was in jail for nearly 30 years. What are you expecting? There is a more equal society i.e. the actual native inhabitants have the same rights as the people whose ancestors killed them and stole their land, even though most of them still live in dirt shit conditions.
Apparently too much for you.
You should be doing more GCSE History revision, shouldn't you?
He suffered injustice and is also supposed to be the one who has to right the injustice. Talk about blaming the victim. What are the responsibilities of the oppressors, one wonders.
IMO they are not and as long as the country doesn't go down the Zimbabwe route I'm ok with it.
Now what's yours and I don't mean you post more from an anti colonial book.
I'm sick and tired of middle class white people whinging when they're not deferred to by people living in conditions of poverty, and especially those in extreme poverty in a country whose land was stolen from them by force, and made to think they should be grateful by being recognised in their own country, because they have the right to vote and not be automatically be shot due to the colour of their skin.
That's my first point. Don't start claiming it's anti-colonial, even Churchill recognised the exploitation was a one-way street.
I'm sick and tired of people with wealth and privilege protecting their excessive wealth and privilege. Whenever the poor get a little bit more, it seems too much of a threat for those with more than enough.
Let's look at a man like Nelson Mandela, a man born into some privilege, yet he elected to fight for the rights of people denied basic rights in their own country. He did spend nearly 30 years in jail, many in solitary confinement, and he didn't have shoes to fit his feet, as Jerry Dammers wrote so eloquently. He came through it without hate, bitterness and vindictiveness. He rose above it, like an angel of God.
He is a true hero, one everyone on the planet should aspire to. Not footballers, celebrities or pop stars, someone who fought for a belief and changed a country.
He suffered injustice and is also supposed to be the one who has to right the injustice. Talk about blaming the victim. What are the responsibilities of the oppressors, one wonders.
It was hardly injustice. He wasn't some Ghandi type peaceful protester. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. He was millitant.
And the white South Africans are far from the oppressors today.
Comments
Oh... did that never happen with white people then?
Talk about trying to stifle debate.
Did I say it didn't?
It happens/happened all over.
It's about rich and poor - not black and white.
In Africa?
Cleverness has nothing to do with it. Power has all to do with it.
Thats an interesting point.
I heard a black South African say that although the money is with the white South Africans, the economy lies with the black South Africans.
Go on then, put forward your point.
White South Africans are now the underclass.
Continue.
Exactly why is he not a saint, you total maverick, you?
You're the only person in this thread who is treating it like a Troll thing. And your comma is in the wrong place.
I just think that he could intervene, as the most revered man in South Africa, and call for a more equal society. It may not work but people in South Africa listen to him- he is about the most important South African that ever lived. I'm sure his opinion would be valued.
IMO they are not and as long as the country doesn't go down the Zimbabwe route I'm ok with it.
Now what's yours and I don't mean you post more from an anti colonial book.
http://www.rense.com/general29/silence.htm
Its a very good link- and I agree with your point regarding black people in Zimbabwe. EVERYBODY will suffer in that country whilst that evil old man is in charge.
Just because the media doesn't publicise the attacks, it doesn't mean it's not happening.
It has nothing to do with cleverness, but everything to do with violence and manipulation.
It's in the right place, separation of a clause to question the original maker of a statement.
Interverne how? He's about 93. He was in jail for nearly 30 years. What are you expecting? There is a more equal society i.e. the actual native inhabitants have the same rights as the people whose ancestors killed them and stole their land, even though most of them still live in dirt shit conditions.
Apparently too much for you.
You should be doing more GCSE History revision, shouldn't you?
Yes, he's 93 but he still speaks out on certain issues.
I'm sorry- but I think the settlers, although their behaviour was far from admirable, built valuable infastructure within South Africa, that, without that infastructure, would be in even more of a mess than it is now.
Funny how scorn is poured upon 'native' Britons but not upon 'native' Africans.
If Africa is the cradle of humanity then any race has the right to claim power.
And to be honest, he was in prison for just reasons. He organised bombing campaigns in order to publiicise the ANC and he admitted he targeted civillians. Just because he looks cuddly and affable doesn't mean he is.
You are expecting a lot from the man, he is not God.
Apartheid caused a lot of very deep seated problems which no one can fix overnight.
By its nature, it was the most divisive system that has ever been invented by any (evil) mind. Why do think it is still mentioned even now?
South Africa is now reaping the fruits of this and of course innocent people will be caught up in this too, like so happens in a lot of cases.
It really makes you wonder what those who devised Apartheid thought of their little system. How did they think it would all end?
It will take a long time to heal the wounds of Apartheid IMHO.
White South African sentiment..;)
Maybe so but I could argue that you are expressing a Black South African sentiment.
Neither of us are wrong in our own minds.
He suffered injustice and is also supposed to be the one who has to right the injustice. Talk about blaming the victim. What are the responsibilities of the oppressors, one wonders.
That's my first point. Don't start claiming it's anti-colonial, even Churchill recognised the exploitation was a one-way street.
I'm sick and tired of people with wealth and privilege protecting their excessive wealth and privilege. Whenever the poor get a little bit more, it seems too much of a threat for those with more than enough.
Let's look at a man like Nelson Mandela, a man born into some privilege, yet he elected to fight for the rights of people denied basic rights in their own country. He did spend nearly 30 years in jail, many in solitary confinement, and he didn't have shoes to fit his feet, as Jerry Dammers wrote so eloquently. He came through it without hate, bitterness and vindictiveness. He rose above it, like an angel of God.
He is a true hero, one everyone on the planet should aspire to. Not footballers, celebrities or pop stars, someone who fought for a belief and changed a country.
Call him a freedom fighter or a terrorist but he was still planning atrocities and he was still conspiring against the state.
Under the rule of law he was a criminal.
It was hardly injustice. He wasn't some Ghandi type peaceful protester. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. He was millitant.
And the white South Africans are far from the oppressors today.