If I were suddenly to spend a lot of time with someone I had known for years and years as being one sex and then suddenly they were another, well, I, too would have trouble in feeling at ease with them straight away. Okay, I might celebrate their right to be as they wish to be, but it wouldn't detract from me having to more or less recalibrate them in my mind. I don't think there is anything unpleasant in Audley's attitude at all - it is completely normal. If he had never met Kellie as Frank I doubt he would have had the same reaction.
It was the change in Frank / Kellie that Audley had to get used to - he has nothing against Kellie's gender per se.
His bath comments indicate he has some issue with Kellie's gender or sexuality.
I'm not believing the 'confused by the change' as his reason to nominate her.
His bath comments indicate he has some issue with Kellie's gender or sexuality.
I'm not believing the 'confused by the change' as his reason to nominate her.
When I was a very young child our cat died...I found it dead and had to let the family know. I found myself laughing nervously whilst saying it but inside feeling distressed. Really strange reaction but the whole emotional overwhelming ness of the situation lead to a displacement of reaction. This is a very common response in all animals to stressful situations. Later in life I watched my new cat trying to get at something and they stopped and cleaned themselves .... Then went back stopped cleaned themselves. This went on until they figured out how to solve the dilemma . We are animals at the end of the day and nothing in research shows otherwise. The bath room comment could simply be such a displaced relation.
Audley's a pretty decent fellow—compared to what's in there at least—so I cut him a little slack regarding this verbal stumble.
Big Brother harassed him to expand on his reasons for nomination and he wasn't careful enough with his words/ideas. Then BB gave him a bollocking/warning after getting exactly the negative reasons they're looking for. lol.
Also, people think it is acceptable to persecute someone for have a hearing problem and Big Brother is doing nothing about the blatant discrimination against Gary. Audley did nothing wrong. Big Brother hare getting their priorities completely wrong. I want to see warnings given to all those nasty people who abuse Gary for being partially deaf. And to Leslie for Red Neck Texan boys and French **** comments.
And they wouldn't want him coming into the bath with them because it would make them uncomfortable what with him being a black man?
I'm disgusted to read so many people trying to justify Audley's right to feel uncomfortable around Kellie calling it "human nature" and blaming Kellie for getting upset about it.
I suspect there are many transgender people watching struggling with their identity, don't want to tune in and feel like a pariah. Just look at Google News to see two different people who have recently committed suicide while struggling with being transgender, one in Dublin one in America.
Good on the producers alerting Audley to how it can come across as upsetting to people and the people suggesting the producer should be sacked for talking to Audley are shameful.
If they'd known him for 30 years, and he'd been white all that time ... and suddenly he was black. I wouldn't have a problem with it. And even that, you've not got the male/female thing to deal with. Men and women who aren't in any sort of relationship, being comfortable around one another in an intimate setting like a bathroom, is not a given.
Audley has never said he has a problem with Kellie becoming a woman but when you consider the world they are from its perfectly understandable. They come from a male dominated world and he has known Frank in that world for many years. He now sees "Frank" wearing a wig and female clothing and now being Kellie so I think it's perfectly natural that he finds it difficult. He was just being honest when he said he felt uncomfortable. Kellie will and probably has encountered negative opinions so she will have to grow a thick skin, harsh as that may seem. I think she is still very confused about her Frank/Kellie identities as anyone would be.
Only if Audley had suddenly become WHITE, could you use the above as an analogy. It was the change in Frank / Kellie that Audley had to get used to - he has nothing against Kellie's gender per se.
Agree with this.
It was the sudden change that unsettled him. Already the two of them have hugged, shed a few tears and made up. Why are we still going on about it?
And they wouldn't want him coming into the bath with them because it would make them uncomfortable what with him being a black man?
I'm disgusted to read so many people trying to justify Audley's right to feel uncomfortable around Kellie calling it "human nature" and blaming Kellie for getting upset about it.
I suspect there are many transgender people watching struggling with their identity, don't want to tune in and feel like a pariah. Just look at Google News to see two different people who have recently committed suicide while struggling with being transgender, one in Dublin one in America.
Good on the producers alerting Audley to how it can come across as upsetting to people and the people suggesting the producer should be sacked for talking to Audley are shameful.
With respect, couldn't you use that argument for everything? Criticise a woman for not wanting to share a shower with a man.
'Would it be OK if she didn't want to share a shower with a black person?'
Only if Audley had suddenly become WHITE, could you use the above as an analogy. It was the change in Frank / Kellie that Audley had to get used to - he has nothing against Kellie's gender per se.
Was just about to post the exact same thing, but thought it wise to read the comments for once first
I disagree OP, he said nothing offensive. The sad thing these days is that people like you are taken far more seriously than the rest of us, when society in general knows we are right.
Also, at least Nadia and Luke A were convincing as a woman and a man respectively, Frank's act as Kellie is hard to buy at the moment.
I don't think you should equate race and gender. Plus Audleys difficulty was not with transgender per se but with coming to terms with someone he'd always known as a man suddenly being a woman. As he pointed out he's not against her - just needs time to come to terms with the change. Everyone needs time to adjust. Kellie herself seems to be having some problems adjusting so why complain that Audley had some difficulty because he knew her as a man. It's not because she'd transgender but because he knew her well as Frank.
I fully agree with your post.........I would also like to add Kellie's own brother was interviewed & he said he's finding it difficult to come to terms with Kellie changing gender. If his own flesh & blood find it difficult, surely someone who has known Kellie as, 'Frank the boxing promoter', for goodness how many years, of course the transition will be difficult to comprehend initially!
This is PC gone mad! >:(
Completely disagree OP. It's the change that Audley is struggling with and I think he should be applauded for being honest and admitting that he's finding it difficult to adjust.
I don't think you should equate race and gender. Plus Audleys difficulty was not with transgender per se but with coming to terms with someone he'd always known as a man suddenly being a woman. As he pointed out he's not against her - just needs time to come to terms with the change. Everyone needs time to adjust. Kellie herself seems to be having some problems adjusting so why complain that Audley had some difficulty because he knew her as a man. It's not because she'd transgender but because he knew her well as Frank.
Spot on.
Kellie is not making it easy for Audley by being so full of self pity. Kellie just wants constant sympathy, understanding and attention but gives nothing back.
I admire Audley's honesty too - because as far as I read the situation he handled it in a sensitive and caring way. Why shouldn't he admit he's taking time coming to terms with such a major adjustment in someone he's known 20 years - and that at the moment he may be struggling.
Had Kellie remained Frank and Audley had changed into a white person quite suddenly - I'm sure it would have taken Kellie a while to process that too. Its human nature - we need time to take on board major adjustments and shouldn't be criticised for being honest with ourselves or others. If we are brutal, unkind or aggressive in our honesty - that is another matter - but he wasnt .
Audley shouldn't be vilified by saying what he feels and Kellie shouldn't be sanctified for just becoming a transgender person.
Only if Audley had suddenly become WHITE, could you use the above as an analogy. It was the change in Frank / Kellie that Audley had to get used to - he has nothing against Kellie's gender per se.
That is exactly what I thought too.
I think it perfectly fair and reasonable for everyone to be told (if necessary) to treat Kellie with respect regarding her decision. You cannot tell, order, or legislate about how someone thinks or feels about her decision - that really would be Big Brother!
I don't understand about the bath comment. It sounds like it referred to something that had happened. Did he mean actual bath or just the bathroom at the same time?
I am presuming because Kellie is pre surgery she would not be able to share it with the other women so would 'share; with the men - I would imagine that scene would make it even harder for Audley because he's being presented with two completely opposing images, both Frank and Kellie at the same time!
BB asked him to expand on his thoughts - he did so as best he could and then he got warned over it!!
I know this is a hard time for Kellie but her decision affects others too and maybe she could spend a little time thinking about and helping them to come to terms with it. Kellie seems to think about nobodies feelings but her own.
Nadia, Luke, Kellie were all born transgender (Luke physically). All I get from other posters is the fact that as Kellie is disliked it's ok for people to make jokes of her.
I'm not quite sure what you would have made of the Nadia & Coolio incident and her later complaints, would you be of the same opinion as you are with Kellie i.e. that Nadia should not have entered the house.
If someone nominated Nadia or Luke and made one of their reasons - because they would feel uncomfortable with them in the communal bath. They should be pulled up just the same and told why it is wrong.
It's 2014 no one should be given a pass over because they need time to adjust. Regardless of how compassionate they can make themselves look in the diary room.
Audley needs to get over his problem with men or women in the same tub and stop with stupid fits like the one where he found being called Audrey really offensive to himself.
That's a really unfair expectation though. When it comes to intimate activities such as bathing or sex, i think it's important to respect people's boundaries. I feel that i am supportive of the transgendered community but i do find some of their demands to be unfair and ridiculous, For example, Laverne Cox from Orange is the new black campaigning for a transgendered inmate who raped, killed and stuffed a 13 year old girl in a box to be housed in a female prison. Also there was another incident where on twitter transgendered women were harassing this Lesbian porn star as she refused to film a movie with a transgendered female.
As much as it is important for the Transgender community to keep on fighting for acceptance and equality, i think they also have a responsibility to try and be respectful of people's boundaries in the process. Kellie needs to take on board that she in early in her transition so people may feel a little strange around her.
your comparison is way over the top and since audley clarified his position
fairly and articulately he did not commit any crime nor was he offensive as kellie is someone he knew previously ! its not normal to expect someone to not have feelings or express a reaction to something like this ! and its also inappropriate to tell others how they should feel ; the show is not about kellie and quite frankly sorry no pun intended
its ridiculous to expect everyone to conform to a certain way of thinking I do not think
audley wanted to offend kellie and this pc brigade accept me or I'll cry foul is totally unwarranted!
I felt sorry for Audley last night. He was being lambasted by BB for essentially being himself. I can't really imagine a more macho environment than boxing. And when she was Frank, Kellie was no doubt quite a nasty piece of work. Also, it would be incredibly difficult for anyone, let alone someone from that macho working environment, to adjust to someone they'd known for years, changing gender. I don't think it makes Audley a bigot - he has been pretty classy about it, given the things he probably knows about Kellie that we possibly don't.
He just said he was 'uncomfortable' with something - not that it repulsed him, or anything. And it is different for him as he knew Kellie for years, as Frank.
I think Kellie wasn't yet emotionally ready for BB - and it has been unfair on her putting her in there. And unfair on Audley, too.
And they wouldn't want him coming into the bath with them because it would make them uncomfortable what with him being a black man?
I'm disgusted to read so many people trying to justify Audley's right to feel uncomfortable around Kellie calling it "human nature" and blaming Kellie for getting upset about it.
I suspect there are many transgender people watching struggling with their identity, don't want to tune in and feel like a pariah. Just look at Google News to see two different people who have recently committed suicide while struggling with being transgender, one in Dublin one in America.
Good on the producers alerting Audley to how it can come across as upsetting to people and the people suggesting the producer should be sacked for talking to Audley are shameful.
I complete agree with this. Very well said, although I do have sympathies with Audley the production team were absolutely correct here.
If a guy I'd worked with for 25 years walked into work tomorrow, dressed as a female and announced they were now Paula instead of Paul,i'd burst out laughing.:D
Then I hope you would be severely reprimanded for sniggering at anyone's medical condition, as that is what it's all about. Their medical problems are not a social status to be mocked or jeered.
Would you at someone with crippling arthritis?.... I infer from your post that you probably would.
If I were suddenly to spend a lot of time with someone I had known for years and years as being one sex and then suddenly they were another, well, I, too would have trouble in feeling at ease with them straight away. Okay, I might celebrate their right to be as they wish to be, but it wouldn't detract from me having to more or less recalibrate them in my mind. I don't think there is anything unpleasant in Audley's attitude at all - it is completely normal. If he had never met Kellie as Frank I doubt he would have had the same reaction.
I'm not so sure about this statement because I've only seen Kellie on TV and can't recall ever seeing Frank although I had heard of him and yet I'm having trouble accepting Kellie mainly because she is constantly referring back to Frank. If she had come into the house and never mentioned Frank then it may have been different but I find myself trying to see her as she was, which isn't difficult when she has so often reacted like a man when in an argument. I have many trannie friends who I have only met as their alter egos and to me they are women but the few I have also met as males, I see in a different light and even I can't explain why.
Comments
His bath comments indicate he has some issue with Kellie's gender or sexuality.
I'm not believing the 'confused by the change' as his reason to nominate her.
I don't think that's fair.
Big Brother harassed him to expand on his reasons for nomination and he wasn't careful enough with his words/ideas. Then BB gave him a bollocking/warning after getting exactly the negative reasons they're looking for. lol.
Love BB producers—they're sadistic creatures.
If they'd known him for 30 years, and he'd been white all that time ... and suddenly he was black. I wouldn't have a problem with it. And even that, you've not got the male/female thing to deal with. Men and women who aren't in any sort of relationship, being comfortable around one another in an intimate setting like a bathroom, is not a given.
It was the sudden change that unsettled him. Already the two of them have hugged, shed a few tears and made up. Why are we still going on about it?
With respect, couldn't you use that argument for everything? Criticise a woman for not wanting to share a shower with a man.
'Would it be OK if she didn't want to share a shower with a black person?'
I agree wholeheartedly with everything that you have said.:)
Was just about to post the exact same thing, but thought it wise to read the comments for once first
Also, at least Nadia and Luke A were convincing as a woman and a man respectively, Frank's act as Kellie is hard to buy at the moment.
I fully agree with your post.........I would also like to add Kellie's own brother was interviewed & he said he's finding it difficult to come to terms with Kellie changing gender. If his own flesh & blood find it difficult, surely someone who has known Kellie as, 'Frank the boxing promoter', for goodness how many years, of course the transition will be difficult to comprehend initially!
This is PC gone mad! >:(
Kellie is not making it easy for Audley by being so full of self pity. Kellie just wants constant sympathy, understanding and attention but gives nothing back.
Me too. It's not like no one ever commented on Michael Jackson changing colour, is it?
Had Kellie remained Frank and Audley had changed into a white person quite suddenly - I'm sure it would have taken Kellie a while to process that too. Its human nature - we need time to take on board major adjustments and shouldn't be criticised for being honest with ourselves or others. If we are brutal, unkind or aggressive in our honesty - that is another matter - but he wasnt .
Audley shouldn't be vilified by saying what he feels and Kellie shouldn't be sanctified for just becoming a transgender person.
That is exactly what I thought too.
I think it perfectly fair and reasonable for everyone to be told (if necessary) to treat Kellie with respect regarding her decision. You cannot tell, order, or legislate about how someone thinks or feels about her decision - that really would be Big Brother!
I don't understand about the bath comment. It sounds like it referred to something that had happened. Did he mean actual bath or just the bathroom at the same time?
I am presuming because Kellie is pre surgery she would not be able to share it with the other women so would 'share; with the men - I would imagine that scene would make it even harder for Audley because he's being presented with two completely opposing images, both Frank and Kellie at the same time!
BB asked him to expand on his thoughts - he did so as best he could and then he got warned over it!!
I know this is a hard time for Kellie but her decision affects others too and maybe she could spend a little time thinking about and helping them to come to terms with it. Kellie seems to think about nobodies feelings but her own.
That's a really unfair expectation though. When it comes to intimate activities such as bathing or sex, i think it's important to respect people's boundaries. I feel that i am supportive of the transgendered community but i do find some of their demands to be unfair and ridiculous, For example, Laverne Cox from Orange is the new black campaigning for a transgendered inmate who raped, killed and stuffed a 13 year old girl in a box to be housed in a female prison. Also there was another incident where on twitter transgendered women were harassing this Lesbian porn star as she refused to film a movie with a transgendered female.
As much as it is important for the Transgender community to keep on fighting for acceptance and equality, i think they also have a responsibility to try and be respectful of people's boundaries in the process. Kellie needs to take on board that she in early in her transition so people may feel a little strange around her.
Comparison silly.
case dismissed.
fairly and articulately he did not commit any crime nor was he offensive as kellie is someone he knew previously ! its not normal to expect someone to not have feelings or express a reaction to something like this ! and its also inappropriate to tell others how they should feel ; the show is not about kellie and quite frankly sorry no pun intended
its ridiculous to expect everyone to conform to a certain way of thinking I do not think
audley wanted to offend kellie and this pc brigade accept me or I'll cry foul is totally unwarranted!
He just said he was 'uncomfortable' with something - not that it repulsed him, or anything. And it is different for him as he knew Kellie for years, as Frank.
I think Kellie wasn't yet emotionally ready for BB - and it has been unfair on her putting her in there. And unfair on Audley, too.
I complete agree with this. Very well said, although I do have sympathies with Audley the production team were absolutely correct here.
Then I hope you would be severely reprimanded for sniggering at anyone's medical condition, as that is what it's all about. Their medical problems are not a social status to be mocked or jeered.
Would you