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Setting up public Wi-Fi

StigStig Posts: 12,446
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Someone I know is setting up a café and wants to offer free Wi-Fi to customers. I'd like to know if there is an off-the-shelf solution which logs access and imposes basic filtering.

We had a thread in this a while ago, but I don't think we came up with a definitive answer. What I don't want is to advise the client to use a standard domestic wireless router. I'm sure the many pubs and cafés must buy in a solution from somewhere.

Any ideas?
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    c4rvc4rv Posts: 29,624
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    Just an example, there are others including BT I think.

    http://www.thecloud.net/wifi/
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    henrywilliams58henrywilliams58 Posts: 4,963
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    Make sure there is no "free" lunch - or indeed wifi.

    Ensure that users register their email addresses and agree to join the café's emailing list.
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    henrywilliams58henrywilliams58 Posts: 4,963
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    Any thoughts on a wifi solution for a housing estate? The estate is 70% 6months++ rental so general wifi is useful especially for visitors.
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    MaxatoriaMaxatoria Posts: 17,980
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    Solutions will have to be tailored to the individual site, size of the estate/building materials/who's going to pay for it/what happens when someone does something seriously naughty (downloads a bit of kiddy filth) etc...the technical bits aint too hard with a bit of work but it'll fail the moment you mentioning costs
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    StigStig Posts: 12,446
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    c4rv wrote: »
    Just an example, there are others including BT I think.

    http://www.thecloud.net/wifi/

    That looks excellent, especially as you aren't tried to a particular broadband provider. Thanks.
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    LION8TIGERLION8TIGER Posts: 8,484
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    Stig wrote: »
    That looks excellent, especially as you aren't tried to a particular broadband provider. Thanks.

    Its Sky. Mind you I have not read the whole thing.
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    henrywilliams58henrywilliams58 Posts: 4,963
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    Maxatoria wrote: »
    Solutions will have to be tailored to the individual site, size of the estate/building materials/who's going to pay for it/what happens when someone does something seriously naughty (downloads a bit of kiddy filth) etc...the technical bits aint too hard with a bit of work but it'll fail the moment you mentioning costs

    Good point which sounds like a deal killer, but they can't arrest the whole estate. Same risk with any restaurant, hotel or café.
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    rottweilerrottweiler Posts: 2,569
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    Just get an Apple airport express and create a guest network
    Piece of cake man

    All done in 5 minutes and there only £59 at apple referb store at the moment
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    c4rvc4rv Posts: 29,624
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    LION8TIGER wrote: »
    Its Sky. Mind you I have not read the whole thing.

    yeap, owned by sky
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    flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    Make sure there is no "free" lunch - or indeed wifi.

    Ensure that users register their email addresses and agree to join the café's emailing list.

    i ****ing hate it when businesses do that. not only would i not join the mailing list i may well not use the cafe.

    the non free lunch is that i am using the business in the first place. it's like making me sign up to a mailing list before i use the toilet.
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    flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    rottweiler wrote: »
    Just get an Apple airport express and create a guest network
    Piece of cake man

    All done in 5 minutes and there only £59 at apple referb store at the moment

    or any other router that supports guest networks. which is most of them.
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    StigStig Posts: 12,446
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    flagpole wrote: »
    or any other router that supports guest networks. which is most of them.
    That doesn't meet my requirements.

    The client is totally non-technical and needs a managed solution 'out of the box'.
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    paulj48paulj48 Posts: 1,122
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    Good point which sounds like a deal killer, but they can't arrest the whole estate. Same risk with any restaurant, hotel or café.

    Well I pressume the person who's name is on the broadband contract will be first to be cautioned.
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    flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    Maxatoria wrote: »
    Solutions will have to be tailored to the individual site, size of the estate/building materials/who's going to pay for it/what happens when someone does something seriously naughty (downloads a bit of kiddy filth) etc...the technical bits aint too hard with a bit of work but it'll fail the moment you mentioning costs

    nothing happens. for a start to the best of my knowledge nobody has ever been caught for downloading child abuse images, directly anyway. it has only ever been when they are found with them in their computer or when a site has been raided and they have the credit card records.

    but in the hypothetical. the police turn up. you tell them your are a café, and they can see that from the people drinking coffee. they come back with a warrant and you give them the records of the email addresses people used to sign it at the times in question.
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    flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    Stig wrote: »
    That doesn't meet my requirements.

    The client is totally non-technical and needs a managed solution 'out of the box'.

    i wasn't advocating that as a solution. i was just pointing out that it didn't need to be an apple airport express.
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    StigStig Posts: 12,446
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    flagpole wrote: »
    but in the hypothetical. the police turn up. you tell them your are a café, and they can see that from the people drinking coffee. they come back with a warrant and you give them the records of the email addresses people used to sign it at the times in question.
    Exactly. I would image that any business providing public Wi-Fi has a 'duty of care' to log access. It may not be law in the UK yet, but I think is in parts of Europe.
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    MaxatoriaMaxatoria Posts: 17,980
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    Stig wrote: »
    That doesn't meet my requirements.

    The client is totally non-technical and needs a managed solution 'out of the box'.

    Depending on the area of coverage theres the possibility of it requiring multiple wifi points linked together so theres the first problem of locating them and then getting power/data to each unit and linking them back to a central point somewhere, it'll probably require a proper site survey and some more powerful kit than your average home router
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    chenkschenks Posts: 13,231
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    Maxatoria wrote: »
    Depending on the area of coverage theres the possibility of it requiring multiple wifi points linked together so theres the first problem of locating them and then getting power/data to each unit and linking them back to a central point somewhere, it'll probably require a proper site survey and some more powerful kit than your average home router

    that's unlikely to be the case really.
    if you see the kit used in McDonalds etc then it's pretty basic and usually has very poor coverage anyway.

    a simple cafe isn't going to need more than 1 router and it won't need anything special to run it. it's unlikely to have a lot of concurrent users and setting the DHCP lease to the bare minimum should suffice.
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    c4rvc4rv Posts: 29,624
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    There is some information here regarding public wifi and responsibility. Effectively you become a ISP and there are rules and regulations around that. With a managed service, normally the management company would be responsible for things like filtering, managing userid and passwords, taking downloads, etc.
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    s2ks2k Posts: 7,421
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    c4rv wrote: »
    There is some information here regarding public wifi and responsibility. Effectively you become a ISP and there are rules and regulations around that. With a managed service, normally the management company would be responsible for things like filtering, managing userid and passwords, taking downloads, etc.
    This. We have a number of "public" SSIDs running alongside our internal network for visitors and staff to use their personal equipment on. The security guys are currently tearing their hair out and seriously considering shutting them off if they can't come up with a suitable compromise. The main issue as you said is that under new legislation we become the "ISP" and as such you have to keep logs going back years ready to present to the authorities as and when required. As this network gets tens of thousands of devices connecting to it each week this is obviously a huge amount of information, and all needs to be kept secure and within DPA legislation.

    So yeah I would strongly advise using an out-of-the-box solution from one of the ISPs rather than trying to do it yourself. Its technically very easy to setup a public hotspot, but complying with all the bureaucracy is not. Last thing you want is to land the cafe owner in hot water (so to speak).
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    rottweilerrottweiler Posts: 2,569
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    or any other router that supports guest networks. which is most of them.

    Apple airport express are great for iPads iPhones etc which is what people in cafés are more likely to use plus MacBook Airs/Pros etc

    Unless it's a dirty greasy spoon then it will be Android and Windows phones

    He sits down with a large Latte and a Muffin and awaits the stampede........lol
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    whoever,heywhoever,hey Posts: 30,992
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    rottweiler wrote: »
    Apple airport express are great for iPads iPhones etc which is what people in cafés are more likely to use plus MacBook Airs/Pros etc

    Unless it's a dirty greasy spoon then it will be Android and Windows phones

    He sits down with a large Latte and a Muffin and awaits the stampede........lol

    Wow, what a load of tripe. :rolleyes:
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    flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    rottweiler wrote: »
    Apple airport express are great for iPads iPhones etc which is what people in cafés are more likely to use plus MacBook Airs/Pros etc

    Unless it's a dirty greasy spoon then it will be Android and Windows phones

    He sits down with a large Latte and a Muffin and awaits the stampede........lol

    I know you're not stupid enough to believe that apple wireless access points work any better with apple devices than any other make.

    so i'm left wondering what you could possibly hope to achieve by lying. i'm guessing by your dirty greasy spoon android comment you're just out for a troll.
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    spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    just have a "agree terms and conditons" sign in. covers you legally.

    some wi fi insists on your email address and mobe number. very annoying.
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    pi r squaredpi r squared Posts: 4,272
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    One other plus point of using, eg., The Cloud as suggested earlier on is that it is likely that the sorts of people who oftentimes use Wi-Fi in public places are probably going to have a The Cloud account, from using public Wi-Fi elsewhere. It therefore makes it very convenient for those people to just log in using their The Cloud details (or even their The Cloud app) and get straight on, rather than piss about making a brand new bespoke account for this individual cafe that they then can't use anywhere else.

    (For what it's worth, from a marketing point of view, I also know that in some places once you've logged into The Cloud, there is a "Do you want to sign up for more information about this pub/cafe/bakery/whorehouse?" landing page aswell, though I don't know if this is managed by THe Cloud or by the individual companies themselves).
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