I think major evolutionary change is reputed to take hundreds of thousands (or millions) of years. Skin colour is believed to change over a time scale of tens of thousands. In terms of "evolution", well within statistical variation of (intelligence etc.) characteristics internal to any race? I also sense there are many examples of migrations for the most inane of reasons...
Human Beings as social animals have very strong tribal insinct that constantly drives us towards making destinctions between "us" and "them". With racism it is easy distinguish between tribes because the distinction tends to have a physical basis, colour of skin, shape of eyes etc, it is easy to spot who is "one of us" and as such tends to be far more obvious than other forms of tribalism.
Race is only one of a myriad of reasons we find to divide our selves from each other.
Race, sexuality, gender, religion (or lack thereof), political loyalties, geographic location, favourite football team, Musical/fasion taste (Mods and Rockers anyone?), Take your pick.
Humans will use any excuse to divide themselves up into distinct tribes and sometimes those groupings give rise to irrational hatreds that can carry on for generations.
Racism is caused by a simple lack of education, both at home and at school/work.
If you take a child from Africa and give it a good home and a good education, he/she will have just as much influence in a chosen career as anybody else..
Take a baby from the UK to Africa and they will grow up with their skills...
Trust me, if everyone learned as a child to respect everyone as an equal, were educated to a standard we expect based on the available knowledge in the world (but seem no longer able to deliver) we would bring an end to racism, homophobia and to some extent religion....
I've never liked the word racism, it was only created in order to legislate rules governing actions against persons of a different race. You could equally say that a person is being indecorous towards another person. The use of the word, by definition, qualifies that their are two (or more) different races involved whereas indecorous merely states that a person is being impolite to another...I have therefore always seen the word racist as racist itself.
Education is the cure for many of the worlds issues and until people wake up and realise this, the world will continue it's merry dance believing fiction in place of fact..
I think major evolutionary change is reputed to take hundreds of thousands (or millions) of years. Skin colour is believed to change over a time scale of tens of thousands. In terms of "evolution", well within statistical variation of (intelligence etc.) characteristics internal to any race? I also sense there are many examples of migrations for the most inane of reasons...
Major changes can happen very quickly, over just a few generations actually. Following mass extinctions, new species appear very quickly to occupy vacant niches.
Skin colour is only a superficial feature, as is eye colour. The differences in all of the races of humanity are only skin deep
The point I made was that there does seem to be a suspicion of those that are different. I wasn't meaning just race, or implying it is in built.
Race is just one of the many differences that causes problems, or did so in the past, and these things do get passed down. Look at Northern Ireland. They've hated each other for generations.
Most of us have developed enough to be able to avoid such issues, but some dont.
I'm quite happy to take everyone as I find.
Well you did say it was an 'instinct' which I took to mean an inbuilt reaction, sorry if I misunderstood.
Anyway, yes I agree that racism or other prejudices are often passed down through generations but as a learned behaviour.
I think it should be able to be freely discussed, rather than shutting down any discussion with "you're a racist". Why did white people come to dominate the world in the latter part of the last millennium? Surely there must be things we can learn from it?
It is hard to argue with someone who suggests that black Africans are less evolved because they live in mud huts and have fat faces.
Different societies have 'dominated' in the sense of building mighty empires full of magnificent artifacts at different historical eras. Some of these have been primarily black, some white, some neither. Anyone who thinks the upheavals of recorded history have anything to do with evolution has no sense of linear perspective.
Why are people racist? I think both Franz Fanon's observations of the interplay of races and Irvine Goffman's observations on the presentation of Self can tell us a little. When describing the "other" negatively, what we are actually doing is trying to (indirectly) describe ourselves (often to ourselves) positively by dissociation. Ergo, "Black people are thick = I'm (White and) clever." Ultimately it's an ego thing. Some egos require regular assurance against feelings of inferiority. Thus, ironically, racist attitudes can be seen as an expression of low self-esteem.
See also:
"People who watch reality TV are morons!!1"
Any comment involving the word "sheeple".
I maintain my ego through intellectual posturing, in case you wondered. :D
Thanks for linking that wiki list of the largest Empires, but you have really shot yourself in the foot there. Five of the top ten are actually "white" Empires, a couple Chinese but then they had a head start having such a huge country to begin with. As for the Islamic Caliphite, why single it out? it's not that it was very outstanding - walking from one piece of desert to another and claiming it pales into insignificance when compared to the great sea-faring Empires.
There are many reasons for people being Racist,as others ave posted its no just whites who racisist,
IMO some people just want something to focus their anger and lack of respect for temselves so tinking tey re farbetter thn blacks makes tem feel superior,
others are bred to be racisit from ignorant parents,
there are oters who have been a victim of racisim and hate blacks or whites,
i have known and worked witha lot of coloured people,there has been only 2 people who are coloured who i have not along with,both had a chip on their shoulder and it had nothing to do with their colour it was their personality i didnt like,but if you asked these 2 people why they thought so many people didnt like them they would of said becuse they where coloured,
whites and blacks should not always assume someone dosent like them because of their skin..it may be their personality
There are many reasons for people being Racist,as others have posted its no just whites who are racisist,
IMO some people just want something to focus their anger and lack of respect for themselves on,so thinking they are far better than blacks makes them feel superior,
others are bred to be racisit from ignorant parents,
there are others who have been a victim of racisim and hate blacks or whites,
i have known and worked with a lot of coloured people,there has been only 2 people who are coloured who i have not got along with,both had a chip on their shoulder and it had nothing to do with their colour it was their personality i didnt like,but if you asked these 2 people why they thought so many people didnt like them they would of said becuse they where coloured,
whites and blacks should not always assume someone dosent like them because of their skin..it may be their personality.
Problem with your theory OP is that it assumes evolution has direction (i.e. something that has evolved is better than something that hasnt).
Evolution doesnt work that way. A population of organisms will evolve in order to minimise the impact of selective pressures applied to it. By moving out of africa - the human population had to evolve to account for the new selective pressures that their new environment placed upon them. They arent "more" evolved - they are simply better adapted to their new environment - but ironically - less adapted to their old one (just look at the havock strong sunlight can play with pale skin).
Completely right, we have evolved to suit the environment we reside in.
There are many reasons for people being Racist,as others have posted its no just whites who are racisist,
IMO some people just want something to focus their anger and lack of respect for themselves on,so thinking they are far better than blacks makes them feel superior,
others are bred to be racisit from ignorant parents,
there are others who have been a victim of racisim and hate blacks or whites,
i have known and worked with a lot of coloured people,there has been only 2 people who are coloured who i have not got along with,both had a chip on their shoulder and it had nothing to do with their colour it was their personality i didnt like,but if you asked these 2 people why they thought so many people didnt like them they would of said becuse they where coloured,
whites and blacks should not always assume someone dosent like them because of their skin..it may be their personality.
Hmmm..what colour is coloured then? And why does their colour even become an issue if you don't like them? Why mention it.
Why are people racist? I think both Franz Fanon's observations of the interplay of races and Irvine Goffman's observations on the presentation of Self can tell us a little. When describing the "other" negatively, what we are actually doing is trying to (indirectly) describe ourselves (often to ourselves) positively by dissociation. Ergo, "Black people are thick = I'm (White and) clever." Ultimately it's an ego thing. Some egos require regular assurance against feelings of inferiority. Thus, ironically, racist attitudes can be seen as an expression of low self-esteem.See also:
"People who watch reality TV are morons!!1"
Any comment involving the word "sheeple".
I maintain my ego through intellectual posturing, in case you wondered. :D
I think it is a dangerous theory when racism is deemed to be only perpetrated by white people.
I think it is a natural deep lying instinct to be suspicious of those who are different, whether that be because of colour, religion, place of abode, and many other things.
As time as passed most of us have got over such things, but rivalries from a young age become ingrained, often with no reason. People from different schools etc can dislike each other, and you can take that all the way up to racism, in all directions.
People latch onto differences, and that can lead to conflict.
Agreed, there was a BBC Three show a year or two ago where some western, mostly British men visited tribes in different countries and took part in their rituals and tournaments and the black guy in the group got heckled by the east Asian tribe they were staying with and he, not knowing the language thought they were being complimentary but they were being quite the contrary.
Agreed, there was a BBC three show a year or two where some western, mostly British men visited tribes in different countries and took part in their rituals and tournaments and the black guy in the group got heckled by the east Asian tribe they were staying with and he, not knowing the language thought they were being complimentary but they were being quite the contrary.
Oh goodness. It's hardly academic. Racism exists in all societies, especially where the concept of light/white= beautiful and dark/black= not. This notion is rife in parts in the Indian subcontinent and african societies amongst their own, as abhorrent as it is. Some of it a legacy bestowed on them from colonial times.
Oh goodness. It's hardly academic. Racism exists in all societies, especially where the concept of light/white= beautiful and dark/black= not. This notion is rife in parts in the Indian subcontinent and african societies amongst their own, as abhorrent as it is. Some of it a legacy bestowed on them from colonial times.
Didn't say it was or doesn't? I've experienced racism from Brits, Europeans, Asians, Aussies everyone.
The hypothesis in the opening post is not really a theory about why racism exists, but rather one about why white people are more evolved than black people. These are two separate questions.
While I find the question 'why does racism exist?' (or better 'what makes people racist?') to be very interesting, I don't think I can really engage with the question 'why are white people more evolved than black people?' mainly because it originates in a false premise (I mean, you have to actually believe that white people are more evolved in order to even bother trying to answer that question), and also because it is very badly defined. For instance, what does 'more evolved' mean? How does TheBoingoBandit qualify it?
I always have problems with terms like 'superior' and 'more evolved' because I don't think there exist absolutes by which they can be defined. When somebody says that X is superior to Y they are making a statement about their own subjective judgement (i.e. they are saying that for one reason or another they value X more than Y), rather than a statement about anything intrinsic to X that makes it/him/her superior to Y. At a stretch they are making a statement about a context (e.g. a social/cultural context) in which X is (or is allowed to be) valued more than X. But, anyway, the point is that they are not really saying anything about X that can be discussed on a commonly agreed basis.
So I won't even bother with TheBoingoBandit's theory, but if he/she wants to discuss why racism exists, then I do have a few suggestions to offer, other than 'because some people are just idiots'.
The hypothesis in the opening post is not really a theory about why racism exists, but rather one about why white people are more evolved than black people. These are two separate questions.
While I find the question 'why does racism exist?' (or better 'what makes people racist?') to be very interesting, I don't think I can really engage with the question 'why are white people more evolved than black people?' mainly because it originates in a false premise (I mean, you have to actually believe that white people are more evolved in order to even bother trying to answer that question), and also because it is very badly defined. For instance, what does 'more evolved' mean? How does TheBoingoBandit qualify it?
I always have problems with terms like 'superior' and 'more evolved' because I don't think there exist absolutes by which they can be defined. When somebody says that X is superior to Y they are making a statement about their own subjective judgement (i.e. they are saying that for one reason or another they value X more than Y), rather than a statement about anything intrinsic to X that makes it/him/her superior to Y. At a stretch they are making a statement about a context (e.g. a social/cultural context) in which X is (or is allowed to be) valued more than X. But, anyway, the point is that they are not really saying anything about X that can be discussed on a commonly agreed basis.
So I won't even bother with TheBoingoBandit's theory, but if he/she wants to discuss why racism exists, then I do have a few suggestions, other than 'because some people are just idiots', which seems to be the most popular answer on offer.
Okay, so yesterday I was maybe a little flippant in answering, mainly due to the fact I was waiting for the theory, not wild speculation in question form.
However I have now thought about it a bit. At first I thought, oh dear anyone who thinks that's true is clearly lacking in education on evolution. But now I think, some racists DO actually do the whole "you're still a monkey" sh*t. Again it's total ignorance of evolution, but it does exist.
So maybe the premise that some racists have a lack of knowing even the basics of evolution, and see whites as being more evovled, has merits.
While I find the question 'why does racism exist?' (or better 'what makes people racist?') to be very interesting, I don't think I can really engage with the question 'why are white people more evolved than black people?' mainly because it originates in a false premise (I mean, you have to actually believe that white people are more evolved in order to even bother trying to answer that question), and also because it is very badly defined. For instance, what does 'more evolved' mean? How does TheBoingoBandit qualify it?
No idea. 'More evolved' suggests to me that there is some sort of target that evolution is moving towards and those that are 'more evolved' are closer to that target. Anybody who believes that obviously has no clue about evolution.
Okay, so yesterday I was maybe a little flippant in answering, mainly due to the fact I was waiting for the theory, not wild speculation in question form.
However I have now thought about it a bit. At first I thought, oh dear anyone who thinks that's true is clearly lacking in education on evolution. But now I think, some racists DO actually do the whole "you're still a monkey" sh*t. Again it's total ignorance of evolution, but it does exist.
So maybe the premise that some racists have a lack of knowing even the basics of evolution, and see whites as being more evovled, has merits.
So then you would have to ask would that kind of racist even acknowledge that they had black origins?
Comments
Race is only one of a myriad of reasons we find to divide our selves from each other.
Race, sexuality, gender, religion (or lack thereof), political loyalties, geographic location, favourite football team, Musical/fasion taste (Mods and Rockers anyone?), Take your pick.
Humans will use any excuse to divide themselves up into distinct tribes and sometimes those groupings give rise to irrational hatreds that can carry on for generations.
Racism is caused by a simple lack of education, both at home and at school/work.
If you take a child from Africa and give it a good home and a good education, he/she will have just as much influence in a chosen career as anybody else..
Take a baby from the UK to Africa and they will grow up with their skills...
Trust me, if everyone learned as a child to respect everyone as an equal, were educated to a standard we expect based on the available knowledge in the world (but seem no longer able to deliver) we would bring an end to racism, homophobia and to some extent religion....
I've never liked the word racism, it was only created in order to legislate rules governing actions against persons of a different race. You could equally say that a person is being indecorous towards another person. The use of the word, by definition, qualifies that their are two (or more) different races involved whereas indecorous merely states that a person is being impolite to another...I have therefore always seen the word racist as racist itself.
Education is the cure for many of the worlds issues and until people wake up and realise this, the world will continue it's merry dance believing fiction in place of fact..
Major changes can happen very quickly, over just a few generations actually. Following mass extinctions, new species appear very quickly to occupy vacant niches.
Skin colour is only a superficial feature, as is eye colour. The differences in all of the races of humanity are only skin deep
Well you did say it was an 'instinct' which I took to mean an inbuilt reaction, sorry if I misunderstood.
Anyway, yes I agree that racism or other prejudices are often passed down through generations but as a learned behaviour.
The problem with your theory is that you actually believe it.
It is hard to argue with someone who suggests that black Africans are less evolved because they live in mud huts and have fat faces.
Different societies have 'dominated' in the sense of building mighty empires full of magnificent artifacts at different historical eras. Some of these have been primarily black, some white, some neither. Anyone who thinks the upheavals of recorded history have anything to do with evolution has no sense of linear perspective.
See also:
- "People who watch reality TV are morons!!1"
- Any comment involving the word "sheeple".
I maintain my ego through intellectual posturing, in case you wondered.Thanks for linking that wiki list of the largest Empires, but you have really shot yourself in the foot there. Five of the top ten are actually "white" Empires, a couple Chinese but then they had a head start having such a huge country to begin with. As for the Islamic Caliphite, why single it out? it's not that it was very outstanding - walking from one piece of desert to another and claiming it pales into insignificance when compared to the great sea-faring Empires.
IMO some people just want something to focus their anger and lack of respect for temselves so tinking tey re farbetter thn blacks makes tem feel superior,
others are bred to be racisit from ignorant parents,
there are oters who have been a victim of racisim and hate blacks or whites,
i have known and worked witha lot of coloured people,there has been only 2 people who are coloured who i have not along with,both had a chip on their shoulder and it had nothing to do with their colour it was their personality i didnt like,but if you asked these 2 people why they thought so many people didnt like them they would of said becuse they where coloured,
whites and blacks should not always assume someone dosent like them because of their skin..it may be their personality
IMO some people just want something to focus their anger and lack of respect for themselves on,so thinking they are far better than blacks makes them feel superior,
others are bred to be racisit from ignorant parents,
there are others who have been a victim of racisim and hate blacks or whites,
i have known and worked with a lot of coloured people,there has been only 2 people who are coloured who i have not got along with,both had a chip on their shoulder and it had nothing to do with their colour it was their personality i didnt like,but if you asked these 2 people why they thought so many people didnt like them they would of said becuse they where coloured,
whites and blacks should not always assume someone dosent like them because of their skin..it may be their personality.
Completely right, we have evolved to suit the environment we reside in.
Hmmm..what colour is coloured then? And why does their colour even become an issue if you don't like them? Why mention it.
Or a superiority complex perhaps.
Agreed, there was a BBC Three show a year or two ago where some western, mostly British men visited tribes in different countries and took part in their rituals and tournaments and the black guy in the group got heckled by the east Asian tribe they were staying with and he, not knowing the language thought they were being complimentary but they were being quite the contrary.
Oh goodness. It's hardly academic. Racism exists in all societies, especially where the concept of light/white= beautiful and dark/black= not. This notion is rife in parts in the Indian subcontinent and african societies amongst their own, as abhorrent as it is. Some of it a legacy bestowed on them from colonial times.
Didn't say it was or doesn't? I've experienced racism from Brits, Europeans, Asians, Aussies everyone.
I didn't say you said it wasn't or doesn't. I'm just rather shocked that some posters think it's the case.
While I find the question 'why does racism exist?' (or better 'what makes people racist?') to be very interesting, I don't think I can really engage with the question 'why are white people more evolved than black people?' mainly because it originates in a false premise (I mean, you have to actually believe that white people are more evolved in order to even bother trying to answer that question), and also because it is very badly defined. For instance, what does 'more evolved' mean? How does TheBoingoBandit qualify it?
I always have problems with terms like 'superior' and 'more evolved' because I don't think there exist absolutes by which they can be defined. When somebody says that X is superior to Y they are making a statement about their own subjective judgement (i.e. they are saying that for one reason or another they value X more than Y), rather than a statement about anything intrinsic to X that makes it/him/her superior to Y. At a stretch they are making a statement about a context (e.g. a social/cultural context) in which X is (or is allowed to be) valued more than X. But, anyway, the point is that they are not really saying anything about X that can be discussed on a commonly agreed basis.
So I won't even bother with TheBoingoBandit's theory, but if he/she wants to discuss why racism exists, then I do have a few suggestions to offer, other than 'because some people are just idiots'.
While I find the question 'why does racism exist?' (or better 'what makes people racist?') to be very interesting, I don't think I can really engage with the question 'why are white people more evolved than black people?' mainly because it originates in a false premise (I mean, you have to actually believe that white people are more evolved in order to even bother trying to answer that question), and also because it is very badly defined. For instance, what does 'more evolved' mean? How does TheBoingoBandit qualify it?
I always have problems with terms like 'superior' and 'more evolved' because I don't think there exist absolutes by which they can be defined. When somebody says that X is superior to Y they are making a statement about their own subjective judgement (i.e. they are saying that for one reason or another they value X more than Y), rather than a statement about anything intrinsic to X that makes it/him/her superior to Y. At a stretch they are making a statement about a context (e.g. a social/cultural context) in which X is (or is allowed to be) valued more than X. But, anyway, the point is that they are not really saying anything about X that can be discussed on a commonly agreed basis.
So I won't even bother with TheBoingoBandit's theory, but if he/she wants to discuss why racism exists, then I do have a few suggestions, other than 'because some people are just idiots', which seems to be the most popular answer on offer.
However I have now thought about it a bit. At first I thought, oh dear anyone who thinks that's true is clearly lacking in education on evolution. But now I think, some racists DO actually do the whole "you're still a monkey" sh*t. Again it's total ignorance of evolution, but it does exist.
So maybe the premise that some racists have a lack of knowing even the basics of evolution, and see whites as being more evovled, has merits.
No idea. 'More evolved' suggests to me that there is some sort of target that evolution is moving towards and those that are 'more evolved' are closer to that target. Anybody who believes that obviously has no clue about evolution.
So then you would have to ask would that kind of racist even acknowledge that they had black origins?